You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

Several people have begun this book as a January read.

Come discuss The Goldfinch with us now, or whenever you can get your hands on this popular Goodreads Choice Nominee for Fiction (2013).

Thanks, Almeta, for starting the thread. To recap some of the comments so far, several people have commented that this book is not what they expected, and a couple of us have commented that we wished the book were a bit shorter. I'm not sure what I expected, but I did expect to like the main character, Theo, more than I do. (I've read a little less than 500 pages of it.) I would be interested in knowing how others feel about Theo

Thanks Almeta for starting this thread. I had commented in another thread that this book was not quite what I expected - it is not so much about the "art underworld" as it is a (mostly) tragic Bildungsroman. While I keep waiting for Theo to turn it all around, it's obvious I'm setting myself up for disappointment. (But then again, I was still secretly rooting for Walter White for a good part of season 5...)

And for what it's worth - the length doesn't bother me. I enjoy her writing and I have been completely engrossed in this book. Also with an anti-hero I believe that more is more because the reader has to have some investment in the character - a way to understand the experiences that have shaped the person, even if at the end it's not the person they had hoped the character was or would become.

Wendy, you make a good point. I feel like I have been through quite a lot with Theo, and I still have a third of the book left. Maybe I'll like him better in the end. I do feel "invested" in him.

Casceil wrote: "Wendy, you make a good point. I feel like I have been through quite a lot with Theo, and I still have a third of the book left. Maybe I'll like him better in the end. I do feel "invested" in him."

I think we're at the same point in the book and I definitely feel let down by Theo after all we have been through with him, however, arguably this may be a truer narrative for someone with his past...

I read The Goldfinch last month and am glad to see from the comments that others are forming the same opinion of the book as I did.

Casceil wrote: "Thanks, Almeta, for starting the thread. To recap some of the comments so far, several people have commented that this book is not what they expected, and a couple of us have commented that we wis..."

I definitely feel kind of sorry for Theo since it seems like everything in his life went horribly (understatement) while he was a teenager. I'm about 60% of the way through it. I thought his life in Las Vegas was tragic, but I did like the characters Boris and even Xandra.

Boris was quite a character. I was amused by his discussion with Theo about why it was OK to shoplift from Costco (huge corporation) but not mom and pop stories (steal from working man--not good). I think this philosophy had a lasting effect on Theo, and Theo's later dealings with customers of the shop's antiques.

I guess I can be the thread crank. I read this last month and just didn't get what all the hype was about. I thought Donna Tartt was very descriptive and the opening 20% of the book I enjoyed. That's when it kind of fell apart for me. I wanted to read more about the painting but it disappeared from the book. I didn't care for the characters or the drugs that they kept taking.
I know I am in the minority but I can see that the author writes beautifully - I just had a hard time with the plot.
What did I miss?

As most of you have already said, Theo is not a very likeable person. I keep thinking how he would have turned out if his mother had not died. Of course he is a victim of terrible circumstances and bad company, but maybe he got some of his dad's bad genes. It's probably a combination of it all.

It seems to me he is more sorry if his loved ones find out about the bad things he does, than the bad things themselves.

I agree in a way with Marnie the crank ;) I thought I was going to read about the painting and the art world and underworld. But all of that disappeared for about half the book and it became mostly about drugs! That was some disappointment, but I still think I like the book. I have about 25% left and will hopefully finish it in the next few days - then I hope I know if I like it or not!

Marnie wrote: "I guess I can be the thread crank. I read this last month and just didn't get what all the hype was about. I thought Donna Tartt was very descriptive and the opening 20% of the book I..."

This is why I haven't started this one yet. (view spoiler)[ Also, I read a review on Audible that said that when the main character is thinking about doing something harmful to himself, she was really hoping he would! I laughed out loud and then I thought...hmm....do I really wanna spend that much time with this guy? And the drug thing just makes me sick, I'm sure I'd agree with Marnie re that as well. (hide spoiler)]

Bryndís wrote: "As most of you have already said, Theo is not a very likeable person. I keep thinking how he would have turned out if his mother had not died. Of course he is a victim of terrible circumstances and..."

I saw hoping for more art underworld, too. The description of the book made it seem like there would be more of art and all that, but so far it seems like a minor part of the plot. Well, I guess the painting does influence some of Theo's actions.

Mara wrote: "Bryndís wrote: "As most of you have already said, Theo is not a very likeable person. I keep thinking how he would have turned out if his mother had not died. Of course he is a victim of terrible c..."

Yeah, same for me. I stayed away from any of the in-depth reviews and relied on the jacket/amazon description which, while not entirely misleading, did lead me to believe it would be more about the art underworld - say a dark, grown-up version of From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler...that it is not!

Laura the review in your spoiler made me laugh- that might have edited the story down a couple hundred pages :).
Wendy I think I was a victim of reading too many reviews. I did expect more From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler ( one of my favorite books as a young girl)/ The Da Vinci Code and less A Million Little Pieces.
The whole Las Vegas section I don't think added to the story. As someone who was born and raised there a little editing and fact checking would have benefited the story.

Marnie wrote: "Laura the review in your spoiler made me laugh- that might have edited the story down a couple hundred pages :).
Wendy I think I was a victim of reading too many reviews. I did expect more...



Haha, I'm glad you enjoyed it! I should link to the review and put spoilers around it. It almost made me spit out the food I was eating, it was so hilarious. And she clearly didn't mean it to be!

I can think of tons of books like that though, Marnie, and wondering if you've had this happen oodles of times too? Life After Life and Night Film and I'm sure there are others I've read just this year that were so hyped and turned out disappointing. You do wonder what would happen if you'd read no reviews going in. Would you have rated the book higher without any advance knowledge? I wonder about that.

But since GR, I can't imagine choosing a book without reading all of my friend's reviews either so I guess it'll keep happening.

Anyway, sorry for the off topic post.

Laura I ran straight to audible and found that review so I could read it to my husband ( who I made read this book with me). Too funny!

Yes I can be the victim of expectations with books and it has happened before. Btw Night Film- just got the notification from the library that I can download the audio...but I am excepting to be entertained not moved....

Glad you saw it!! :))

Yes. Good idea re Night Film.

Laura wrote: "Marnie wrote: "Laura the review in your spoiler made me laugh- that might have edited the story down a couple hundred pages :).
Wendy I think I was a victim of reading too many reviews. I did expe..."

I am trying not to read book or movie reviews since it is only one person's opinion in some cases and we all have different experiences and tastes when we come to one of these venues.

Nancy I think that is an excellent strategy. I do that with movies all the time since I rarely agree with the reviewers. You are right - that is one of the nice things about this site- and YLTO in particular- everyone's opinion is valid.

I agree, Nancy, but I find overall that there are a few people here on GR whose opinions I trust, and they tend to lead me to good books. They don't always lead me away from the bad ones, but often they do. I don't necessarily trust random people, but people who have my taste in books, or at least mention something in their review like graphic violence, which I try and stay away from, for me is helpful.

Marnie wrote: The whole Las Vegas section I don't think added to the story. As someone who was born and raised there a little editing and fact checking would have benefited the story.

I felt that way about the Las Vegas section, too, when I read it, and for several hundred pages after. Now, I am 600 pages in, and about 50 pages ago, Boris reappeared. His reappearance, and the events and conversations that follow, put the Las Vegas section in a whole new light. I still don't know where it is going, but I now see much more point to the Las Vegas section.

So I finished The Goldfinch last night and while I think Tartt's writing was great, I am firmly in the camp of "why is thing thing so dang long?!" I almost didn't finish it because the ending just dragged on and on...I have to hold off on saying anything more at this point because I am on my iPhone and don't know how to hide spoilers (and figuring that out on here is a pain!).

After I finished the book I quickly scrolled through the more recent GR reviews because (a) prior to reading it, I stayed away from any user reviews and had only read the NYT review of the book which was very favorable and (b) to see if anyone else felt the same way about the writing vs. the story. For the record, I didn't hate the book but I didn't love it as much as I thought I would after reading the first half of it.

Unlike many here and in other forums, I didn't mind the Las Vegas section or the rampant drug use/references throughout the book and trusted that it would be integral to the story. I did, however, feel as though too much time was spent in Las Vegas notwithstanding the significance of the events that transpired and the relationship Theo forms with Boris while there. In general though, the story was uneven - there are the instances in which Tartt goes into too much detail (view spoiler)[ (i.e. the feverish drug-addled scene in Amsterdam) (hide spoiler)] and others where she seems to dodge explanation or offers a convenient/contrived plot device rendering parts of the story implausible. I also had a hard time reconciling the length of the book with the paucity of depth in his relationships with those he claimed to care so much about, other than Boris and his mother. (view spoiler)[ (i.e. Theo's relationship with Boris was fleshed out (no pun intended) and solidly established, whereas his relationship with Pippa and even Kitsey seemed to be glossed over and delivered in nostalgic vignettes and descriptive details about their appearance, clothing, etc.). But perhaps that was the point since this is a person that is so damaged, that it is possible the love he claims to have for Pippa is an unhealthy infatuation with the innocence she seems to embody and especially because it appeared to have been unrequited for so long. (hide spoiler)] I am digressing and at the risk of rambling on about any one of Theo's many character flaws, I want to skip to the end and say that while I thought it was a good way to end the story, (view spoiler)[ Theo self-reflecting and waxing philosophical about the enduring beauty of art juxtaposed with "the ungainly sadness of creatures pushing and struggling to live", (hide spoiler)] it went on way too long!! So long that I read it too quickly and in doing so found it contradictory and nihilistic. Then I re-read it this morning and found a different message - one that is redemptive and brutally honest (even if it is an honesty that we may not all share) rather than wholly nihilistic...but it still went on too long (not unlike this post!).

I am interested in what others thought since there seems to be plenty of material for discussion...

Wendy wrote: "After I finished the book I quickly scrolled through the more recent GR reviews because (a) prior to reading it, I stayed away from any user reviews and had only read the NYT review of the book whi..."

I didn't read any of your spoilers and an now curious about the ending. I still have a few hundred pages to go, though.

Your comment about Tartt using convenient plot devices is interesting. Ihadn't thought about it in that way, but I think the whole way that Theo leaves Las Vegas was something of a cop out and didn't really resolve anything in his relationship with his dad. I don't know if it's going to come back later in the book.

I am number 195 on the waiting list at my library -_- who knows when i'll get my hands on a copy.

Samantha wrote: "I am number 195 on the waiting list at my library -_- who knows when i'll get my hands on a copy."



Yikes! I hope your library has multiple copies!

Mara wrote: "Wendy wrote: "After I finished the book I quickly scrolled through the more recent GR reviews because (a) prior to reading it, I stayed away from any user reviews and had only read the NYT review o..."

Yes! Felt the same way about the circumstances surrounding his leaving Las Vegas. Even as early as (view spoiler)[ his escape from the museum, especially after emergency workers were forced to evacuate for fear of another bomb, the reader had to suspend disbelief in accepting that he was able to exit the museum via an innocuous door that wasn't being watched by any emergency response workers?! spoiler> (hide spoiler)]

I finished the book last night. Now I understand why readers' reactions vary from "this is brilliant" to "this is boring and too long" to "???? Did I miss something?" Think of the book as a 3,000 piece jigsaw puzzle. If you take a leisurely approach and really look at all the pieces, the multiple ways in which they fit together in the end really is impressive. I gave the book five stars, and I found the conclusion very satisfying. That said, it was a very long book, and while reading I kept feeling like it was too long, and could the author please get a move on with story. This was particularly true in the last 100 pages, where things seemed much too drawn out. I think Theo's lengthy deliberations were drawn out on purpose, to create suspense and to help us understand his pain, but personally, I could have done with a bit less of that. Looking back from the end of the book, I could see where a lot of what seemed like trivial detail in the earlier parts contributed to the depth of the picture in the end. No book is perfect, and I think this one could have been improved by making it shorter, but I can't argue too hard against the choices the author made.

If one of the marks of a good book is it gets people talking about it then this book succeeded. The ratings from just this thread run the gamut- 1 star from me to 5 stars from Casceil. Even though I hated this book I have very much enjoyed discussing it within this thread.

Casceil wrote: "I finished the book last night. Now I understand why readers' reactions vary from "this is brilliant" to "this is boring and too long" to "???? Did I miss something?" Think of the book as a 3,000..."

Casceil wrote: "I finished the book last night. Now I understand why readers' reactions vary from "this is brilliant" to "this is boring and too long" to "???? Did I miss something?" Think of the book as a 3,000..."

I agree with your comments and also found the ending to be realistic and satisfying. And while I vacillated between love for the book and the characters to indifference and a desire to just be done with it after investing so much time, I have a genuine admiration for her writing.

The book is filled with wonderful details that are easy to miss. Here's one I missed that someone else pointed out. The first chapter is called "The Boy with the Skull." At p.25, when Theo is recounting his visit to the museum with his mother, he recalls her comments about a particular painting by an artist named Hals:


"('Now, Hals. He's so corny sometimes with all these tipplers and wenches but when he's on, he's on. None of this fussiness and precision, he's working wet-on-wet, slash, slash, it's all so fast. The faces and hands -- rendered really finely, he knows that's what the eye is drawn to but look at the clothes -- so loose -- so sketched. Look how open and modern the brushwork is!') We spent some time in front of a Hals portrait of a boy holding a skull ('Don't be mad, Theo, but who do you think he looks like? Somebody' -- tugging the back of my hair -- 'who could use a haircut?') ... ."

Here is a link to the Wikipedia entry for "momento mori" which is explained as Latin for 'remember that you will die,' and described as "an artistic or symbolic reminder of the inevitability of death." The article includes a picture of the painting that Theo's mom was talking about, Frans Hals, Youth with a Skull, c. 1626-1628. So while they are looking at this painting, the mom is noting a likeness between Theo and the boy in the painting, and unbeknownst to either of them at the time, the mom is soon to be dead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_...

That is a fascinating detail! I agree that the book is filled with lots of fascinating details and I recall this was brought up in another thread and I certainly did not remember that particular connection (between the chapter title and that specific passage re: the Hals painting). Thanks Casceil!

I got the info from the 21st Century Literature discussion group, which is also discussing "The Goldfinch" this month. It's a rather lively discussion, in case any one wants to check it out.

I finished a few days ago, and I still don't know quite what I think. I wasn't bored, and I was curious about what was going to happen, so I probably liked it some. I liked the way it is written, but it is a bit hard to read a book that is told by a person you don't like very much.

Casceil wrote: "The book is filled with wonderful details that are easy to miss. Here's one I missed that someone else pointed out. The first chapter is called "The Boy with the Skull." At p.25, when Theo is re..."

That's super interesting. I've been doing the audio version of this book, so I wonder how much of these little details I'm missing since it's hard to go back and find passages and just to simply catch some of the finer points. I wonder if I'd be enjoying this book more in e-book or paper format.

Mara wrote: "Casceil wrote: "The book is filled with wonderful details that are easy to miss. Here's one I missed that someone else pointed out. The first chapter is called "The Boy with the Skull." At p.25,..."

It's the same with me, I listened to it, so I'm sure I missed some of these details. But I liked the narration, and think (hope) I didn´t miss too much!