SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Hi,

So this has happened to me and I am really curious to why this happens. Being a huge booknerd in the family, I sometimes get comments from people who tell me that I read rubbish. I read the young adult genre, which mainly focus on science fiction and fantasy. Some of the comments I have gotten are that what I read is not beneficial and it teaches us nothing. They're all mindless. I wholeheartedly disagree with this. I'm not saying that reading other types of things is bad. Reading for me is beneficial, no matter what it talks about. Even if it is erotic. So what? Of course, you need to be mature enough. But I really don't understand why people degrade this. And sometimes I wonder, What if they actually have a point?

Ignore them. If you were a devoted soccer player, or were into Worlds of Warcraft, or a whiz crocheter, you would get the same nagging, only from a different subset of your acquaintance. You can't please everybody in life, so at least please yourself.

People just have different opinions. My dad thinks that science fictions are most beneficial, my mum thinks that mysteries are most beneficial, my grandad thinks that historical fiction is most beneficial and I think that all books are beneficial. It depends who you are, what you're into and what makes you feel good.

These people sound very narrow-minded. No, they do not have a point; they are simply prejudiced, and can't see that reading is good for its own sake.

Stay here on Goodreads where there are lots of people who share your interests, and with whom you can discuss the books that you enjoy.

Not all reading has to be 'beneficial', if that means helping you to get on in life or teaching great moral lessons. Reading books just because you enjoy them is one of life's great pleasures, and there's nothing at all wrong with it. Stick to your guns. Eventually these people will see that you aren't going to be talked out of reading the stuff you enjoy, and will leave you alone.

I'm just happy to find another reader! I don't know if it's just my circle of acquaintances, but so few people read for entertainment.

I'm curious what they consider to be "beneficial" reading. I assume they don't think the hundreds of self-help books are really beneficial (though they claim to be). If they're real sticklers to that argument, then it should be nothing but engineering textbooks.

Reading is a beneficial endeavor in its own right.

Christopher wrote: "I'm curious what they consider to be "beneficial" reading. I assume they don't think the hundreds of self-help books are really beneficial (though they claim to be). If they're real sticklers to ..."
Haha, as a person who is studying engineering, I hate them so much LOL! Reading is supposed to be fun <3

I think YA is rubbish... but that's just my opinion and you shouldn't take it or what others say as fact.

Sabrina wrote: "I'm just happy to find another reader! I don't know if it's just my circle of acquaintances, but so few people read for entertainment."

LOL! Yes, sometimes I wish that my real-life friends were just like my awesome ones, where I could fanboy about my favorite books!

Brenda wrote: "Ignore them. If you were a devoted soccer player, or were into Worlds of Warcraft, or a whiz crocheter, you would get the same nagging, only from a different subset of your acquaintance. You can't ..."

I think that one should always listen to the other side of the argument, but you do have a point. There is always something that does not please someone. And that's okay. It's what we like that matters.

Abi wrote: "People just have different opinions. My dad thinks that science fictions are most beneficial, my mum thinks that mysteries are most beneficial, my grandad thinks that historical fiction is most ben..."

YESSS!!! I honestly feel blessed that I love books so much. I couldn't imagine my life without them! Although I admit, my book buying sometimes gets creepy :P

Chris wrote: "These people sound very narrow-minded. No, they do not have a point; they are simply prejudiced, and can't see that reading is good for its own sake.

Stay here on Goodreads where there are lots of..."

I'm so happy I joined this group. It is full of interesting discussions and different opinions. :)

Does it make you happy? If so, it is beneficial. So often people think of beneficial as propelling us forward or teaching us something is a topic that they deem important but they forget that things that make us happy are beneficial to our wellbeing. You read and it make you happy so it is beneficial to you. Kick everyone who is negative from your happy bubble filled with books and don't give them a second thought.

Alicja wrote: "Does it make you happy? If so, it is beneficial. So often people think of beneficial as propelling us forward or teaching us something is a topic that they deem important but they forget that thing..."

NEVER! They will forever and ever make me happy!

"The things that make us happy, make us wise." (John Crowley)

Chris wrote: ""The things that make us happy, make us wise." (John Crowley)"

Well-said, well-said!

Brenda wrote: "Ignore them. If you were a devoted soccer player, or were into Worlds of Warcraft, or a whiz crocheter, you would get the same nagging, only from a different subset of your acquaintance. You can't ..."

QFT

YA is not a genre, it is a marketing ploy. I've read both Gravity's Rainbow and Harry Potter in the same year and enjoyed them both. Ignore the critics and read what you like.

Do they enjoy sweets, alcohol, soda, etc.? Do they enjoy amusement parks, movies, tv, or music? If they argue that fiction (YA or whatever) has no value but enjoy any of these things--or any other luxury--then they don't know what they're talking about.

It can be hard because they're your family members, but there's nothing wrong with liking your fiction. At least you've found some like-minded people here. If you want to find people to meet with in person, try things like bulletin board notices at your local bookstore or at Meetup.

YA is in my opinion both a genre and a marketing ploy. :)

Brenda wrote: "Ignore them. If you were a devoted soccer player, or were into Worlds of Warcraft, or a whiz crocheter, you would get the same nagging, only from a different subset of your acquaintance. You can't please everybody in life, so at least please yourself. "

Quoted for truth.

As I always say, it doesn't matter what you're into, I can find 30 million people in America alone that think it's the stupidest thing they've ever heard of.

That includes tremendously popular things like football, NASCAR, golf, going to church, watching TV... you name it.

Too true. And the converse is true. It doesn't matter how arcane, how nutball, how criminous, or how downright weird your interest is. Somewhere on earth there is a bunch of people who are interested in it, and they probably have a web page and a blog. If it is seditious or revolving around terrorism it's probably being surveilled by the FBI, but they're there.
So that is your reply to people who deplore reading. It is surely the safest and most vanilla of activities ever, short of knitting. Point out how very much more they would dislike it if you became fascinated by needle drugs, or sex with Labrador retrievers.

Yes...I must agree with all of you! Great answers everyone :)

People are entertained by very different things. I came from a family of readers and didn't own a television set until I was in my 20s ... so books were my source of entertainment.

I know people that are entertained by TV, by Saturday nights at the local bar, football, basketball, NASCAR and church ... I tend to be a rather solitary person and prefer books.

Kenneth wrote: YA is in my opinion both a genre and a marketing ploy. :)

YA is a state of mind. I am YA, and I am 61 years old. :)

My mom tells me that what I read is weird. That is ok. I like my weird better than her harlequin romances.

I have a friend that used to say she didn't understand why I read fiction, it wasn't real and you couldn't learn anything from it, just a waste of time.

I told her it was just a personal preference, just like I didn't understand why she watched QVC on TV. That's how she entertained herself, I entertained myself by reading a book.

As mentioned above, reading is a very personal preference. I've had my fair share of friends/colleagues over the years laughing at the fantasy books I read.

Great to see the faces of said friends/colleagues when they first raved about the tv series 'Game of Thrones' and I casually told them that I read the book when it came out in the 90s!

Kenneth wrote: "YA is in my opinion both a genre and a marketing ploy. :)"

YA is not a genre, it's an age grouping.

While you are more than welcome to your opinion [that YA is rubbish] you aren't welcome to your own facts.

YA is not a genre. :)

Adeeb wrote: "Hi,

So this has happened to me and I am really curious to why this happens. Being a huge booknerd in the family, I sometimes get comments from people who tell me that I read rubbish. I read the yo..."


I think you should ignore them. I've heard that crap my entire life...and I say bullshit!

Misery loves company...don't let them make you miserable. I love to read whatever I want...and it's made me a better person (or at least a little less crabby, lol).

Mrs Joseph wrote: YA is not a genre, it's an age grouping.

In fact it's a perceived level of sophistication masquerading as an age grouping, but let's not split hairs.

MrsJoseph (taking back my data & giving GR the middle finger) wrote: "Kenneth wrote: "YA is in my opinion both a genre and a marketing ploy. :)"

YA is not a genre, it's an age grouping.

While you are more than welcome to your opinion [that YA is rubbish] you aren't..."
Oh, but it is. It has its own shelf in bookstores. That makes it a genre. We're discussing it like a genre aren't we? What makes it NOT a genre?

As for fiction being unable to teach you anything... what is the difference that separates fiction from nonfiction? That one thing happened, and the other did not. In both cases, they are stories, and in both cases, something can be learned. The irrelevance of the fact that one happened doesn't affect that.

Kenneth wrote: It has its own shelf in bookstores. That makes it a genre.

No. Sci-fi and fantasy are genres. YA sci-fi and YA fantasy are quasi-age groupings within a genre, grouped together by some stores on the same shelf for marketing purposes.

quasi-age groupings?

How do you categorize children's literature, or is that a genre?

Chris wrote: "Mrs Joseph wrote: YA is not a genre, it's an age grouping.

In fact it's a perceived level of sophistication masquerading as an age grouping, but let's not split hairs."

*snicker*

Agreed.

Kenneth wrote: "Oh, but it is. It has its own shelf in bookstores. That makes it a genre. We're discussing it like a genre aren't we? What makes it NOT a genre?"

No, it's still an age grouping.

Just because it gets a shelf doesn't make it a genre...that's called "marketing."

Personally, I'd call YA a demographic, but it does kind of meet the definition of genre:

"a category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, characterized by similarities in form, style, or subject matter."

Also, Iowa State University has a course in it...

English 394: Young Adult Literature
ISU Catalog Course Description:

Literature for and about the young adult. Critical study and evaluation of the genre; examination of modes and themes found in the literature; study of the relationship of the genre to literature for children and adults.

];D

Kenneth wrote: As for fiction being unable to teach you anything... what is the difference that separates fiction from nonfiction? That one thing happened, and the other did not. In both cases, they are stories, and in both cases, something can be learned. The irrelevance of the fact that one happened doesn't affect that.

As someone who is reading more and more nonfiction for research purposes, I find myself viewing events more as story than fact. History is always subjective, written by the victor, and clouded by prejudices and rumor.

I've come across a number of conflicting nonfiction accounts. And you can't trust newspaper archives because they're always slanted and I'm even skeptical of autobiographies. Either way, I do agree, you can learn something from both.

I can agree with demographic, not with Iowa State (colleges are often wrong in their class listings).

This is the thing, YA comprises all genres with no genre conventions that are specific to YA. Not even the age of the protagonists is specific. There are YA books with all adults as well as young people.

There is YA Romance, Sci-Fi, Fantasy, horror, etc. I could go on and on.

The only genre that even remotely acts in this manner is the Romance genre - but it even is very specific as to the conventions that occur within the book. Any romance book has to end in a HEA or HFN.

What requirements are their for YA?

You know, I'm probably going to back away from this discussion. Genres and sub-genres are rather important to me and my OCD can't deal well with the the mislabeling of genres. I'll have to allow yall to mangle the genres alone.

MrsJoseph (taking back my data & giving GR the middle finger) wrote: "What requirements are their for YA?..."

Dunno, I didn't take the course. ];>

I'm more inclined to consider it a demographic rather than a genre. I.e., as Kenneth said, it's a marketing thing.

Come to think of it, it's much like New Age music. There was a whole wide range of music from the '70s that did not fit into the normal record store Pop, Rock, Dance, R&B, Soul, Jazz, Classical genre classifications. When CDs started getting big, the music industry came up with the New Age "genre" to lump it all in together. As a result you had everything from dense abstract synthesizer drone music all the way to neo-folk acoustic music dumped into the New Age slush pile.

Same thing happened here. There was a group of literature from all over the place aimed at one demographic, but nowhere to clearly stick the stuff in a bookstore. It's not children's lit, yet it's not easily identified by its target demographic when it's mixed in with the normal genres. BOOM: new section called YA.

I'm of like opinion - the mis-categorization of YA bugs my OCD nature too. I feel it IS a genre, and one I (personally) don't like. But I feel also that it's a disservice when books which are rightly put in other genres, get pulled into YA by readers who feel that the age of the protagonist has much to do with it. I feel that's in error, and that the thematic elements, as quoted by Micah from the Iowa State piece, are the key factors in determining genre. YA (note that nearly all the posts above use "YA" instead of "Young Adult") has thematic signatures and rightly deserves to be considered a separate genre from other writing. Thus something like Ender's Game, while featuring a young protagonist, is not YA. Nor is The Jungle Book by Kipling.

What defines YA for you, BESIDES age? What separates Ender's Game for example, from Percy Jackson or Harry Potter? There IS a difference, and the age of the protagonists is not the defining factor nor is the intended audience, at least not anymore.

For me, this crusade is just about preventing classic books I love from being re-classified as YA erroneously on false premises.

Kenneth wrote: "What defines YA for you, BESIDES age? What separates Ender's Game for example, from Percy Jackson or Harry Potter? ..."

And that's how we get into the whole "what's the difference between SF and Fantasy" kind of circular debate. };>

Maybe I should just go pop some popcorn.

I'd contend that if Ender's Game came out now, it'd fall under YA and would fit right alongside Jackson or Potter (and appropriately so).

Speaker for the Dead, however? Not so much.

Kenneth wrote: "I'm of like opinion - the mis-categorization of YA bugs my OCD nature too. I feel it IS a genre, and one I (personally) don't like. But I feel also that it's a disservice when books which are right..."

YA* has been around for ages - for over 40 years at the min - so I think it's not cool to change it.

The problem isn't the demographic. The problem is the books coming out at this moment in time.

Simply because writers & publishers have been pushing out bullshit we're going to change the conventions? I will stand alone barring the doorway, if need be.

You know some GREAT YA? Starship Troopers. Wonderful. Watership Down Amazing. Let the Circle Be Unbroken Heartrending. The Princess Bride LOVE.

But we don't think of amazing books like this when we discuss YA. We want to go directly to something currently out and then change the entire grouping based on things that aren't even as old as I am.

And then, what happens to MG books if YA is suddenly it's own genre? Those get tossed out with the bathwater?




*I almost never use Young Adult when typing online. I us YA because it's shorter.

Kenneth wrote: For me, this crusade is just about preventing classic books I love from being re-classified as YA erroneously on false premises.

Why does it matter if a favorite book is reclassified though? As long as they don't change the content, it's still the same book. I have to agree with the others that YA seems like a marketing ploy more than anything else. It's too vague and undefined. I might be wrong, but it seems like YA has changed from when it first started appearing on shelves.

With that said, even the Wiki page waffles back and forth. In one sentence it says it's a marketed to certain ages, and further down, it says it's become a genre.

Sabrina wrote: "Why does it matter if a favorite book is reclassified though? As long as they don't change the content, it's still the same book. I have to agree with the others that YA seems like a marketing ploy more than anything else. It's too vague and undefined. I might be wrong, but it seems like YA has changed from when it first started appearing on shelves.

With that said, even the Wiki page waffles back and forth. In one sentence it says it's a marketed to certain ages, and further down, it says it's become a genre. "


It doesn't matter, for the most part. I still categorize my books correctly. I'm just glad I have BC and I don't have to worry about genres getting crowd sourced via tags. *shudder*

But I agree, it's a marketing ploy - trying their best to squeeze out every single dollar. Someone told me that in the UK they occasionally cross market books as both YA and Adult at the same time - just with different covers.

MrsJoseph (taking back my data & giving GR the middle finger) wrote: "But I agree, it's a marketing ploy - trying their best to squeeze out every single dollar. Someone told me that in the UK they occasionally cross market books as both YA and Adult at the same time - just with different covers. "

They do that sometimes here, too, for books which have a strong cross appeal. I figure it's often done to market to the anti-YA snobs who won't read a book just 'cause it's called YA.

Colleen wrote: "They do that sometimes here, too, for books which have a strong cross appeal. I figure it's often done to market to the anti-YA snobs who won't read a book just 'cause it's called YA."

Really? Color me unsurprised.

Ignore them!

When I was a teen/early 20s, I got a lot of the same comments - including from my English teacher who banned all of my reading material from her classroom.

Looking back, I acknowledge that those weren't the most intricate or insightful books I could have read and probably I wouldn't touch any of them today for anything other than nostalgia, but hey, I read and I enjoyed myself, and that's all that matters. If I'd read what SHE wanted me to read, I probably wouldn't have read more than a tiny fraction of the books that I read when I picked my own material and I probably wouldn't be much of a reader today.

Your tastes may change over the years and you might move to something they think is more worthwhile or you might not. It still doesn't matter. I know several retirement aged people who prefer YA over Adult lit. My mother is addicted to the dime-a-dozen Harlequin Romances, which she likes for the sheer fact that they're all exactly the same. So if she can read those with no judgement from me (though I do occasionally try to foist a Georgette Heyer off on her) then you surely can read your YA books...