THE Group for Authors! discussion

And getting them into the rapidly dwindling number of bookstores out there?

Almost everything I sell is in e-book, and more tellingly, I don't buy physical books myself any more. I probably read several hundred books a year, and the thrill of instant gratification coupled with the liberation from storage needs has made me a convert. I've bought a handful of print books in the last year, mostly second-hand, and one off a remainder table. I don't even think about running to B&N because a favorite has a new release. I download it.

There are categories that I think will remain with us, such as anything that's heavily illustration dependent, and I still use guidebooks, because I find it easier than messing with an electronic device, but I think print editions of adult fiction are going the way of the vinyl record.

The only real issue I can see is that it's hard for your favorite writer to sign your e-reader.

Still, I see a lot of discussion on here about how to get books printed and/or into bookstores and very little about how to get your book signed with an e-publisher, even for writers of genre fiction.

If you want kindle books signed, try looking for a website called authorgraph.

The only reason I have all my books printed (as well as ebooks) is for myself and to make use of Goodreads giveaways.

A print copy is still the dream as is seeing it in a physical store after all of your hard work. On top of that, whether self-pub or traditional pub you make more off of a print copy than you do an ebook. You also get to hold it in your hands and show it off to people in a way that seems more concrete than an ebook.

I do have a few of mine available, but my self-pub print editions are really just for the convenience of any potential readers who may be Luddites.

My publisher is probably using similar reasoning, but I haven't asked them.

I get the concrete, since I can feel that way about it myself.

I'm really not convinced on the "make more money" despite the higher price points. If you have a publisher, the royalty rate is generally much lower than it is with e-books. It's not just the greater volume, I make more money from every e-copy I sell through them than from every print book. If you don't, while you should theoretically make more off each copy, you have to sell them, in which case you either have to try to get them into a dwindling number of retail outlets where your production package will be competing with ones from major publishers with a lot of resources OR you need to develop some sideline, such as a lecture circuit or a table at various events where you can sell them yourself.

My publisher's got a pretty solid percentage rate they don't take much for print or ebook. So maybe that's why I have that view, that and the smaller charge the indie guy pays for his copies vs the published one. For a print copy that costs the reader $10-12 plus shipping the author pays $4-5 a copy at Creatspace for example.

One more thing, especially for retailers like Amazon, is that Amazon will list your print book price as the 'true price' and the digital price as 'discounted'. So if you have an e-book now for 4.99 and your Createspace POD book is 16.99, clicking the Kindle version will have the 16.99 struck through and 'you safe 12.00!' or something like that, which is of course not true at all.

Because "print books" are still perceived as the province of "real authors." The ones that are published by Harper Collins, that you can buy at Costco.

The only self-published print book I ever bought was ugly as homemade sin, and didn't look anything like the pretty books that I can buy in bookstores. This was several years ago, so maybe they have improved in appearance at this point.

Martyn V. wrote: "One more thing, especially for retailers like Amazon, is that Amazon will list your print book price as the 'true price' and the digital price as 'discounted'. So if you have an e-book now for 4.99..."

I have noticed that, and I always think it's a little funny, because no, it's not true. It may help sell e-books though.

The ones of mine I ordered off Createspace weren't too bad. Not major press stuff, but better than most vanities, although I know my covers were pretty bland. I'll take bland over ugly, but there isn't much clue to content.

Yes, the margin is good, but the author assumes all of the risk, and I think a lot of people overestimate the ease of selling them.

I think you're missing the obvious - people just like physical books. I know that I still prefer to hold a 'real book' in my hands. It's the physical sensation that adds to the enjoyment.

At 55, one could say it's my age and that woud be true but my adult children ages 27-34 are the same as me.

I will self-publish all of my ebooks in a paper form for older readers if the topic applies, and also for those like me who love the feel, including that musty smell of old books!

CreateSpace is tricky - the worst thing is the adjusting the photo color and also the titles. There is no embossing option to make the title complement the cover photo. If there were, I think my first cover would be fabulous.

I think it's a little more accurate to say people like the idea of books. There are people who prefer to do their reading in print, and a few who just can't make the adjustment at all, like my father who is 85 and has vision problems.

I have always liked the smell and feel of books, and I certainly haven't developed a distaste for them, but I also like the way a vinyl record feels and the way it's packaged. It's just stopped being the most effective way for me to get and read books, just like vinyl records stopped being the best way to play music around the time I graduated from high school.

To keep the analogy going, authors focusing on print books to the exclusion of e-books, to me, sound like a recording artist saying in 1988, "I really want to get an LP out, the sound is great and they have a wonderful solid feel and the cover art is full-size--tapes sound crappy and I'm not convinced on this CD thing." There's a lot of truth there, but...

All my novels are on Kindle & in paperback. I have much better sales from Kindle.

All mine are e-books and Pbs but like Joanna I sell far more ebooks. Some people don't like or can't use an e-reader though.

I tend to by e-books - partly for cost and partly for space but I do prefer research books in print.

I think that the reality is that people who don't use e-readers probably don't even know that self-publishing is a thing.

A.L. wrote: "All mine are e-books and Pbs but like Joanna I sell far more ebooks. Some people don't like or can't use an e-reader though.

I tend to by e-books - partly for cost and partly for space but I do p..."

Surprisingle many older readers like Kindle because they can enlarge the text and it's easier to read.

Moonlight Reader wrote: "I think that the reality is that people who don't use e-readers probably don't even know that self-publishing is a thing."

I don't think that's true, Moonlight Reader. Many people that I've spoken to either have e-readers but still prefer reading an actual book; use both e-readers and read actual books; can't afford an e-reader but don't like reading books on the small screen of their smartphone or just prefer real books. I try to satisfy both sides.

Pamela wrote: "Moonlight Reader wrote: "I think that the reality is that people who don't use e-readers probably don't even know that self-publishing is a thing."

I don't think that's true, Moonlight Reader. Ma..."

What percentage of your book sales are print books?

Actually, I've sold more paperback books than e-books. I won't say that they were sold mostly on Amazon because they weren't. Some were sold at book festivals or to people that heard through the grapevine that I had published a book, friends of family members, etc. I'd love to sell a lot of both kinds.

Obviously the reasons why an author may want to have a book in physical print varies greatly. I wanted to have my novel in print because, in my mind at least, that is the dream for any novelist. Just like home ownership versus renting. Sure you can rent all of your life, but don't most people want to own a home; some for financial reasons, some because it speaks to status. Also, for me it is survive-ability. When I die, there is something out there that may very well survive me through the decades, something people will talk about when I am dust in the ground. That is the dream anyway.

To date I have sold way more eBooks than paperback. I self-published my paperback through Lulu and was pleasantly surprised at the end product. It looks just like the other books on the shelves of Barnes and Noble, though it took a second round of reprint to get it that way.

Joanna wrote: "All my novels are on Kindle & in paperback. I have much better sales from Kindle."

So do I. And I make a lot more money off the Kindle sales.

I can't say that I've made A LOT of money off of either, yet. Like Molly, I think we all want to see our books in print. It is like a legacy of sorts.

There are probably almost as many reasons people like print or e-books as there are paperback and e-books.

There are some books that are not as conducive to ebook format - those with a lot of detailed illustrations, tables, figures, graphs, and photos, for example. I read the Silmarillion in ebook and wish I had it at least in paperback so I could skip back and forth easily between family trees and appendices, etc. Same for a book I just read ('Adequately Explained by Stupidity?') about PanAm 103 - there were a bunch of illustrations and photos I would have preferred to see large-format. And my history books with their photos - gotta be at least paperback if not hardback.

I read about 75% of my books in ebook format now, but I'll always want some of them in paperback/hard-cover. I don't think that's going away.

I'm formatting an 1850s true crime and part of the problem is the other things fiction doesn't have--block quotes, photographs, footnotes. For example, the AZW3 file indents the block on both sides like it should, A mobi file only indents the block on the left side, it looks horrible. I don't know, non-fic definitely looks better as a print book. Plus you can't do book signings with ebooks.

epub is not that good when it comes to a book with images. Pdfs are fine but but all e-readers read them and few people sit at a pc or laptop and want to read a book.

So there is a problem for authors with uniformity of the software.

I think bookshops that sell them find the ebook sections for d/l were their best selling section.

We do both only where the book is all text. With non-fiction book with lost of images we steer clear of ebooks at the moment, but that will change.

Cindy wrote: "I'm formatting an 1850s true crime and part of the problem is the other things fiction doesn't have--block quotes, photographs, footnotes. For example, the AZW3 file indents the block on both sides..."

Hi Cindy - Have you tried mobi's Comic Book Creator. I was having the same problem as you were with lots of photographs and text boxes in the Authentication Guides that I publish. Luckily I stumbled onto Amazon's/Kindle's Comic Book Creator. It is fabulous, locks all of those photos, text boxes and block quotes into place so you don't have that blender effect. Of course, this only gets your eBook in a mobi format to be sold for Kindle. I wish I would find something equally as easy to use for the epub formats.

My self-published book is a classic library-type book (a history), and at this point there seems no question that it should be done as a print book. True, e-books are entering libraries more and more, but the center of gravity is still print.

Another reason for print is that some reviewers demand print versions, or make it clear that they prefer print books. So that too has yet to change for non-fiction in the humanities.

I am planning on a full complement of eBooks released about a year after the print version. Not as an afterthought, but because by then the print book will have enough reviews and accolades to help sell the eBook. I'm hoping that many people will at that point prefer the eBook for the convenience and lower price. So in a way the print book becomes a sort of stalking horse for the eBook.

My books are available in both print and e versions and one is now in audio. E books seem to sell better. I think it's because of difference in price for print copies.

As a reader I still prefer print books. I like holding a book as I read. My second choice is audio. E books are a distant third. But, as an author we wanted to cover all bases.

Darlene Torday

I've never heard of Comic Book Creator, Molly. I'll have to check that out. I do have more text than photos, would it still work for text heavy rather than image heavy? Can you upload a mobi file to Kindle? I thought they did the conversion. I ask because I haven't uploaded yet. I've been using Sigil for the epub, and Calibre to convert the epub to see how it looks.

Moonlight Reader wrote: "I think that the reality is that people who don't use e-readers probably don't even know that self-publishing is a thing."

You're absolutely right.

For sales, I publish digitally. But for offliners, most of whom I encounter offline, I have print copies. I give them away - and some people gladly hand me $10 for them.

Onliners would never pay $10 for a book they can get for $2.50 or $2.99 on their eReader.

Just above the category of people who don't know that "self-publishing is a thing" (I love that expression) are the people who would "never use their credit card online."

Print books are a necessity to have for some people, but in my case, I'm the only one who buys them. I've sold 300 Kindle versions of In The End, and 5 paperbacks - and each of those 5 were bought by friends and relatives. (The entirety of my support base. lol)

I'm convinced that I must have books in print - but not for selling online.

I myself prefer print books. Some people prefer paper as to ebooks because they look at a screen all day and need a break, some people can't afford kindles and such and some just plain like physical property than air.

Kimberly wrote: "I myself prefer print books. Some people prefer paper as to ebooks because they look at a screen all day and need a break, some people can't afford kindles and such and some just plain like physica..."

To really feel like I own a book, I want it on my bookshelf. When Lee Child puts out a book, I order the hardback without fail.

Otherwise, I go back and forth. Kindle is best when lying in bed in the dark. Reading in any position without regard for ambient light is awesome.

I like both Kindle and paperbacks. Kindle is brilliant to take on holiday, especially a long flight, when you can load up dozens of books.

Cindy wrote: "I've never heard of Comic Book Creator, Molly. I'll have to check that out. I do have more text than photos, would it still work for text heavy rather than image heavy? Can you upload a mobi file t..."

Hi Cindy- Yes, the Comic Book Creator by Amazon/Kindle would still work even if it were all text. It was created because the original KindGen middle-ware converter they created couldn't handle anything other than rich text. It is a great tool that I use if my book has anything other than words within it. I had to use it for my book How to Open and Run a Consignment Store, because I had tables, budgets, pictures, etc but the book is 90% text.

In eBooks, from what i have gathered in my short time self-publishing, there are two main formats, mobi (Kindle format) and epub (Nook, iPad, Kobe, etc). The comic book creator will convert your book into a mobi file, available for use on a Kindle- which is the fair market share of ereaders on the market anyway.

There is a free app in the Apple store so that you can read Kindle books (mobi format)on your iPad, so that broadens the market a little more, I just don't know if too many people know about it. I am still on the hunt for a simple program to convert my eBooks to the epub format so that they are readily available to anyone. I've tested a few that were more problematic then they were worth.

Interesting info here on a recent survey done on publishers. First, consider this....92 percent of sales of books on Amazon are ebooks and second place on that list are audiobooks! Granted, we're not considering sales in bookstores here, but Amazon sells more books than any other place. And 92 percent of them are ebooks! Incredible. The survey also revealed that the Big 5 Traditional publishers make the most money (for themselves) on ebooks.
And then get a load of this:
Consider this earnings comparison:

Self-Publishing: You can write four novellas of approximately 25,000 words each and price them at $2.99. You'll make a 70% royalty from Amazon. Let's say you have or develop 3000 fans (easier to say than to do, but certainly not impossible). If they all buy all four novellas, you make $24,480.

Traditional Publishing: The Big Five are unlikely to buy novellas, so you write the same number of words but make it a 100,000-word novel. The eBook is priced at $6.99 (currently the Big Five average). Let's say you get a 25% royalty (most don't get that much). If you have or develop 3000 fans, you make $5242.

For the same amount of work and the same number of sales, the Big Five author makes less than a quarter what the self-published author makes. In fact, the self-published author reaches $5242 in earnings with only 642 copies sold.

This is from a newsletter called Red Sneaker Writers done by a multi-published author and writing instructor William Bernhardt.

Altho I mostly read on my Kindle now==for the price and immediacy and ease of carrying it around--I really would like real, tangible copies of all my books; two of five are in ebook form only, and I find it frustrating not to be able to hold them in my hand, leaf thru the pages, give them out as gifts, see them on my bookshelves, and tons of other aesthetic reasons.

Deborah wrote: "Interesting info here on a recent survey done on publishers. First, consider this....92 percent of sales of books on Amazon are ebooks and second place on that list are audiobooks! Granted, we're n..."

3,000 fans?! Man, you are all living in a different galaxy than I am!

With print on demand and sites like createspace, Lulu and others where it is free to create a print edition, why would any author not take advantage of another channel to market their book.

Books in print are a great form of free advertising. Chances are good that someone reading your print edition may take it with them, where it will be seen by many others.

Even if you only sell 10% of your book in print, that's an extra bit of income coming in, and free advertising every time one of those books is read in public.

I work in an environment where I'm allowed to read in my down-time, but the use of an electronic device is not always acceptable, therefore, at work, I read print books. I read both e-books and print books, and do prefer print books (maybe because I am beyond the age of 39), but if I read an e-book that I really, really like, I will turn around and buy a print copy and am highly disappointed if one isn't available. Also, all my novels have sold more in print than in e-book format. And yes, having an actual book makes it easier to donate copies to libraries and charities where they are highly appreciated.

Many of my readers want physical books. They don't own or want and E-reader.

I want to give my readers whatever format they prefer.