The Sword and Laser discussion
TV, Movies and Games
>
Agents of SHIELD - looking good!
"Why didn't they start up like this two seasons ago?"They couldn't have (we didn't have the backstory to care about any of these people or even know about them). But more to the point, they were hampered by the tie-in to Winter Soldier which really crimped the first half of S1. The second half of S1 and last season were actually quite good.
Remember, too, that they don't have the effects budget of a movie. A recenter interview mentioned that everyone of Gordon's teleports last season was really expensive in terms of what they have for effects.
I felt the same way. Terrific episode, but why did it take them 44 episodes to figure that out? It kind of had a feeling of Angel when that show was hitting on all cylinders.Based on the preview, it kind of looks like they went back through the previous seasons and cherry-picked the best moments and have decided to revisit them. When Peter MacNicol showed up as an exiled Asgardian (which also reminded me of an Angel type of plot), he simply schooled the rest of the cast on how to do that job. So it's nice to see him coming back as another highlight.
Rick wrote: "Remember, too, that they don't have the effects budget of a movie. A recenter interview mentioned that everyone of Gordon's teleports last season was really expensive in terms of what they have for effects. "Which is why they shouldn't compete with the movies.
Personally, I would have watched a 2-hour movie of the Guardians of the Galaxy sitting around a table bantering, and the scene last night in Coulson's office gave me that exact same feeling. I'd watch half an episode of just that stuff.
If you look at all the truly brilliant episodes of TV shows, so many of them are "bottle episodes" (named after Star Trek TOS episodes that the crew called "ship in a bottle" episodes), where it's mostly the main cast on the primary set.
Buffy where her mom dies. Friends in "The One Where No One Is Ready," one of my all-time favorite episodes of TV ever. Mad About You when they're sitting in front of the baby's door for the entire episode. Breaking Bad when they're in the lab trying to catch a fly. Frasier when Niles and Frasier are trying to set up a party ("Black ball!"). And, directly applicable to this show, "Objects in Space" from Firefly. AoS could actually do a version of that almost exactly, now that I think on it.
Agents of SHIELD never fails to impress, especially since the second half of the previous two seasons were so awesome. It's even more important than that, though.It feels like the cast is a giant family now. You got to see Daisy come into her own as a superhero. Coulson is the epic and smarmy father figure. You can feel Fitz's pain and anger. Hunter and Mockingbird are pretty good if you are going for that complicated mix of romance and black ops. The list goes on and on.
John (Taloni) wrote: "First episode was pretty awesome. Why didn't they start up like this two seasons ago?The Inhumans thing does seem like a dodge, though, to do mutants without calling them mutants and having the a..."
They couldn't start like this because of the Captain America: Winter Soldier movie. The showrunners were told ahead of time what was going to happen there so they basically had to spin their wheels until the movie where Shield is destroyed. The storytelling really got better after that.
As to the Inhuman thing that is the big push in the comics right now so naturally they are doing it in the show / movies as well. Its all because they gave away the rights to the X-men in the movies. Marvel has an edict that the creators aren't to create any new mutants because that would give Fox the rights to them in the movies and they don't want to help Fox. They also aren't pushing any X-men toys and if the X-books didn't sell so well they'd probably just cancel them altogether.
Important point to note, though...Marvel didn't "give away" the rights to the X-Men, they sold them, just like they sold the rights to Spider-man, the FF and all the others.
Marvel was bankrupt, so selling parts of their IP were the only way to stay solvent. Without selling off Spider-man and X-Men (and garnering the subsequent ancillary bucks that came with licensing) we wouldn't have the MCU today.
So I can live without mutants in the MCU, because it means we get to *have* an MCU. (And my Avengers: Age of Ultron Blu Ray arrives tomorrow.)
Trike wrote: "Important point to note, though...Marvel didn't "give away" the rights to the X-Men, they sold them, just like they sold the rights to Spider-man, the FF and all the others.
Marvel was bankrupt,..."
Excellent point, Trike!
I've been a fan of the show since season one (yes, first 1/2 was rough, except the pilot that was awesome). I thought the season premier was really fun. Where I wish the show would up it's game is with the directors they hire. I think the directors could do a much better job of bringing those scripts to life. I want more directors like Kevin Tancheroen (who did an amazing job with an episode last season that featured a one take fight sequence).
I think they should take a cue from Arrow. Arrow probably costs less than a third of what AoS does, but it feels so much bigger. And the fight scenes are spectacular. The scene Dharmakirti is referring to is from "The Dirty Half Dozen" and it is pretty impressive... except Arrow does that almost every week.Edit: the first scene in this fight scene compilation is a case in point. This is filmmaking on the cheap that looks great. Using a simple location and utilizing a simply dolly to get dynamic effects. When Ollie and Sara leave the warehouse via the skylight, they use the oldest trick in the book: two stunt people are winched past the camera and a grip throws sugar-glass at the ground. Combine with breaking glass sound effect and they imply an exit through a window, but there's nothing there.
Arrow doesn't actually rely a lot on CGI effects, though. Fight scenes aren't expensive to make sans effects. It doesn't really feel bigger to me, either (I might not be getting what you mean by bigger, though).That said, I don't want AOTS to be like Arrow. Arrow and Flash are very deliberately comic book shows that try to appeal to a young audience (I think of the CW demographic as 15-25ish). AOTS is trying to skew a little older and be more SF/superhero but not comic book precisely. A lot of the appeal of Arrow is, frankly, the fight set pieces. Take those away and there's not a lot there.
The thing about AoS is that it feels claustrophobic, despite locations that are either gigantic or outdoors. That's because it generally relies on two-shots and cameras that don't move very much. I think someone on that show has a fetish for staging fight scenes in hallways, and I don't know how many times they've put a camera behind a pole or a plant or something as if someone is spying on the fight, but there's no one there.For instance, the "May versus May" fight should have been epic in scope because of the cool moves they came up with, but it felt like it was shot in a closet.
If they just did some lo-fi stuff for the fight scenes and amped up the snappy patter shots, they could free up some cash for special effects with jets and such.
If it were me, I'd go the Arrow route and then save my money for some really spectacular stuff. AoS should have at least one fistfight on the outside of their jet. They're Inhumans, so why not? Instead, they'll just have them smack each other around in a hotel hallway.
At least in the opener they had a really nice set piece on the street for the opening sequence. That kind of thing buys you a lot of goodwill, so you don't mind that the stuff with Fitz was yet another scene in an alley. (Which is an outdoors hallway.)
Hmm... interesting points. I'd not really noticed that before.
Mod
But that was a huge clanger in Episode 2. They Carbon dated some sand as being 5.5 Billion years old? :-?
I know SHIELD has good technology, but 100,000 times better than real science can manage (we reliably carbon date to 50,000 years). Bad science writing ;-)
I'm being pedantic, but they should have said radiometric dating.
Tassie Dave wrote: "I'm really liking this season.But that was a huge clanger in Episode 2. They Carbon dated some sand as being 5.5 Billion years old? :-?
I know SHIELD has good technology, but 100,000 times better..."
Being accurate is not being pedantic,Tessie. It was a good bit of info to share.
If only the Inhumans plot wasn't dragged down by Lincoln. On paper that character arc seems awesome but the actor is playing it as "sad puppy dog eyes angst" instead of "desperate and angry angst". Plus he has like negative romantic chemistry with Chloe Benett. Last season when it was more of "mentor/mentee" and "I think they might like eachother" they were fun to watch, but this sad angsty romance is just unconvincing.
Mack has oppostite situation, he has crazy good chemistry with everyone. He could go from best bro to love interest for almost anyone and it would make sense.
Interesting take. I generally find Mack to be a dud, in this case definitely YMMV and does. The incipient feelings Simmons seems to finally have for Fitz are a good tease, though.Nice reveal at the end, (view spoiler)
Not sure what Coulson's game is with the other agency, but it's a standard comics trope so I'll go with it.
John (Taloni) wrote: "Interesting take. I generally find Mack to be a dud, in this case definitely YMMV and does. "You're first person ever that I've seen voicing that opinion. avclub and io9 likes/loves him, plus couple other places I frequent. It's quite surprising to see someone with other opinion about him
He might not be most developed character (but thankfuly he isn't criminaly undeveloped like Triplet was) but the actor makes his relatively small role much more interesting IMO.
That said, I can easily understand that you wouldn't like him if you don't feel that he has chemistry with other characters.
And that reveal at the end made me (and apparently hundered other people) about LOST
That's the fun thing about opinions, everyone's allowed to have one and of every opinion is correct - to the holder, at least.Regarding the reveal, so much fun speculation to be had!
(view spoiler)
God knows they need to do something with Simmons. She's been nothing but reactive for most of the last season (from early S 2 until now). Had great hope when she was in Hydra, but that ended and most of last season she was boringly "powered people need to be put down, rawr!". They've really taken agency and intelligence away from her - she's supposed to be incredibly bright and they need to get back to showing her as that.
There were so many things wrong with the carbon dating. For one thing, carbon dating is for organic materials. Second, it's based on assumptions entirely grounded on earth ecology. Carbon dating something from another planet wouldn't produce anything like an accurate response.Loving this season, though.
I was disappointed with episode 3.AoS seems to be doing nearly identical storylines with The Flash and Arrow, and I just find the DC side more engaging. That's because they're taking their time to set up the relationships. AoS is trying to force Lincoln into adversarial and romantic relationships because that's what the screenplay books say you should do. Meanwhile, over on Flash and Arrow, no one is randomly bickering or hooking up.
Are you sure you watch Arrow given your randomly hooking up comment? By my count Ollie has hooked up with Laurel, Sarah, Huntress, Felicity, baby momma now living in Central City whose name I forget, and I'm probably forgetting someone else as well.
Thea hooked up with undercover Ras DJ guy last season. Then she re-hooked up with Roy.
Felicity hooked up with Ray and Ollie both last season. And I can already feel the inevitable Ollie / Felicity break up after which Felicity will hook up with the new guy who will eventually become Mr Terrific. Somehow someway they have to end the Olicity romance so they can force the show to be like the comics and force Ollie and Laurel back together since they are in the comics.
And the show is nothing but nonstop bickering between everyone.
BTW I love Arrow and AoS (both much more than Flash), I'm just not buying your statement that they are so different as you described.
Mod
Rob wrote: "Isnt the new guy gay? And married?"Oh yeah. They did have a throwaway line about a husband didn't they. Well there goes my conspiracy theory. One of the things I like about the Oliver / Felicity relationship is that the show so far has been "comics be damned" we are going to go our own way on the show with whats working. I've been afraid that they would force the Ollie / Laurel relationship on us since that matches the comics. I don't know if its just Katie Cassidy or the writing but Laurel just doesn't work on any level for me.
I have similar reservations about Flash as I can't stand Iris and feel she's being forced on us at this point for no good reason other than she's Barry's wife in the comics. I got accused of racism for saying this on a facebook post (they assumed I hate Iris because she's black) so let me just be clear, I think Joe West is the best character by far on Flash. He's well written, well developed, and has an amazing pseudo father / son relationship with Barry.
Rik wrote: "Are you sure you watch Arrow given your randomly hooking up comment? By my count Ollie has hooked up with Laurel, Sarah, Huntress, Felicity, baby momma now living in Central City whose name I for..."
Yeah, but that's over a period of 8 years, and c'mon, Ollie is a hunk. That guy is so good looking, I'd seriously consider switching teams.
On AoS it feels forced and non-organic. The relationship between May and Ward during season 1 felt inevitable and character-driven. On her part it seemed like she was working out her stuff about being called "The Cavalry" and was acting like damaged goods, but then we later find out Ward is even more of a broken toy than May was. This new stuff has none of that. It feels like someone went, "We forgot to have kissing!" So they put in kissing.
Rick wrote: "So any thoughts on [spoilers removed]"They could go anywhere with it. i can only hope it's a cool reason and not another Whedonesque "Hell Dimension."
Trike wrote: "Rick wrote: "So any thoughts on [spoilers removed]"They could go anywhere with it. i can only hope it's a cool reason and not another Whedonesque "Hell Dimension.""
I'm assuming it's tied to the Marvel universe, so not really too worried about that. The arc springing from t his has the potential to give Simmons back some agency and I hope they don't F it up. By F it up I mean she met some hunky guy who rescued her and they became A Couple (which would explain her reaction at the restaurant). Simmons is Fitz' equal - write her that way.
I used to be a Coulson/May shipper but now I think I'm a Coulson/Price shipper. The couple of scenes with Coulson and Price (Constance Zimmer is awesome) have been great and the actors seem to have some good chemistry.This little bit of dialogue was probably my favorite bit from the most recent episode:
Price: "Last time we met, you disarmed with your evasive tactics."
Coulson: "I see what you did there."
Price: "No, I gotta hand it to you. Makes me wonder what else you got on your sleeve"
Coulson: "No really, I get it"
I know Constance Zimmer has a show on Lifetime, but here's hoping she can stick around Agents of SHIELD for a little while.
Finally s3 episode where Lincoln was good. He was kinda stupid and reckless, but so much more interesting than in previous episodes where he seemed to be puppy eyed love interest (which actor couldn't sell).Rest of the episode was even better, with so much plot that episode seemed to burst at seams. But somehow nothing felt too rushed or too slowed down.
I LOVE This Show
Had a Marathon Before Season 1 Finished
Had a Marathon Before Season 1 Finished
So true, Olaf! And while May's comment to Coulson, (view spoiler) seemed a bit stereotypical, she delivered it well.The twist with Coulson's budding love interest is coooool.
Just watched last weeks episode. Really was a good episode. I swear this episode felt like longer then an hour. And the writing was really good, it wasn't straight Weedon, but it still had that influence.
Shield gets better and better every episode!! I just wish they kept Lucy Lawless around longer :)Somewhat off topic: the actor who plays Grant Ward is in the game Until Dawn - I am not a fan of horror movies/books/games but I enjoyed watching a playthrough of this game on You Tube.
So utter speculation here based off last night's episode. Anyone else think that Ward won't be thrilled with the idea of bringing back some long banished inhuman god to rule the world and that this will inevitably lead to him teaming up with Shield to stop it?I also wonder that given how deeply the show is diving into Inhuman stuff how they can keep going without at some point bringing up Black Bolt, Medusa, and the rest of the Inhuman royal family? I know they are being kept away right now for the planned movie but thats four years away still so I wonder if they'll eventually scrap the movie and just do it on Shield.
Mod
The show got way better, and made a lot more sense after.
Last night was kind of a filler episode. Not bad though.
Mod
Im with Rob - a lot happened last night. We know (view spoiler).However, I kind of want Ward's story to resolve this season. It's obvious he's not the long term planner of Hydra's leadership and I don't see him being redeemed. I could see a few ends - Coulson shooting him, him sacrificing himself for Daisy/Skye in a fight, etc. But his arc doesn't feel like it's got much more life in it.
Also Hunter needs to be more of a top notch guy. He's supposedly on Bobbi's level or close to it but he couldn't even shoot Ward accurately (yeah, I know Ward had Plot Armor) and didn't do much in the one action scene last night.
The show has been inconsistent this season but overall I am enjoying it. I was very surprised by how good the episode with Simmons trapped on the alien world was. It was compelling, well-written, competently directed, excellently acted and had more than a bit of The Martian feel to it. Especially when, to paraphrase Mark Watney, she had to "science the shit out of it" and figure out how the thing worked.
That was the kind of episode that The Walking Dead has excelled at but few other shows have managed, so to see AoS pull it off was kind of amazing. I also liked how they did subtle things like showing that Simmons and the astronaut had slept together by casually panning across the two bunks, with one made up and the other mussed. That's a very old school trick put to good use here. (In the heyday of the Hays Code where TV series couldn't even show married couples in the same bed, The Dick Van Dyke Show used the exact same technique to brilliantly get around the sensors. They staged it so that Mary was already dressed when Dick wakes up, so they could explain it away as, "Oh, she got up early and made her bed," but no one ever noticed.)
The action scenes even stepped up their game lately, almost as if they binged a bunch of Arrow episodes to get a feel for how to do lo-fi old-school fight scenes along with their effects-heavy ones.
The double-crosses and triple-crosses and wheels-within-layers nature of Coulson playing against Price and she against him was terrific, and my favorite part of this week's episode. They really could just do that for 44 minutes every episode and I'd be happy. Getting Powers Booth to reprise his role from The Avengers was quite a coup, as well. It really makes this feel like it's all one universe.
It rather feels to me like AoS has stopped paddling around the kiddie pool and has jumped into the deep end with both feet.
I'm a fan of both AoS and Arrow.Although Arrow can sometimes be more middle grade than YA and Ollie seems to have learned dialogue at the Ikea school of acting, all the actors are charming. Ollie is cute with whomever is girl of the month and his bromance with Diggle is touching. And there is a great vibe between all the characters which is not easy in ensemble cast.
AoS has good episodes but sometime it feels like the plot is dragging down the action. Almost all the fight scenes do seem constrained and although they have kick-arse gear they do so little with it.
Simmons' holier-than thou stance gets on my nerves which is made even worse because I think Fitz is great.
Most of almost there seems to be a lack of chemistry. Hunter and Boobi just bicker and flirt, Simmonds and Fitz mope while May is always angry.
Triplet had something but he's gone. Mack is up and down. While Lincoln-Daisy long-distance doesn't cut it.
The two most charismatic characters are Agent Coulson with that mysterious smile who sometimes seems to be in a totally separate plot line, and Ward which was great when he was the good guy with Skye but now just makes everything creepy.
I haven't watched AoS for a while, in fact I still haven't even finished the second season. But I wanted to say that one of my most favorite episodes was the one right after Skye got her powers, and she is in quarantine with Fitz being the only one who has an idea of what's happened to her.
I thought the scenes between Skye and Fitz were amazing. Her being scared to death of what is happening to her and Fitz afraid of her and trying to decide whether to help her or not. A great episode.
Fitz is also my favorite character in the show.
Joel,If Fitz is your guy I think you will like season 3. In my opinion he has had more true character development then any other original team member in this season. Although May and Simmons have also had some good development as well.
On a side note, my DVR ate last week's episode. Is it worth trying to grab elsewhere, or should I just skip and move on?
I'd find it somewhere John - it was good and set stuff up. Comcast on demand would have it as would Hulu. Or just stream it from http://abc.go.com/shows/marvels-agent...
Mod
Daisy. She doesn't like to be called Skye now :-)
It has got a lot better in season 3
John (Nevets) wrote: "On a side note, my DVR ate last week's episode. Is it worth trying to grab elsewhere, or should I just skip and move on?"It's worth the watch. Coulson and Price doing the "Mastermind versus Mastermind" bit was great.
I love the fact that a balding, middle aged bit character from the Marvel movies has turned into such a cool lead.
AndrewP wrote: "I love the fact that a balding, middle aged bit character from the Marvel movies has turned into such a cool lead."Yes, he is rather...handy...isn't he! Quite a...disarming...fellow!
Thanks for the advice folks. Yah, that was one I probably wouldn't want of missed.
The Inhumans thing does seem like a dodge, though, to do mutants without calling them mutants and having the associated copyright issues.