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SSG: Spy/Spec-Ops Group discussion
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The myth of the "clean" thriller.
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Hell even the classics couldn't avoid hitting none of them. Ian Fleming for instance might have used the "profanity filter" but didn't hold back with the sex or making Bond suffer (Case in point Le Chiffe's carpet beater.)
Such 'clean' thrillers would be in my opinion both boring and unrealistic. Why unrealistic? Well, try to kill someone with a gun or knife while not creating some gore. Guns do a lot more damage to the human body than just a small hole. No profanity? Soldiers in a combat situation are in pure survival/agression mode and will be in no mood to be told to watch their language. No sex? Sex is part of normal life for all humans, except (in theory) for priests and nuns. I haven't heard yet about a spy who is a priest or a nun. This strikes me as a wish from a very prudish person wearing rose-tinted glasses.
Michel wrote: "Such 'clean' thrillers would be in my opinion both boring and unrealistic. Why unrealistic? Well, try to kill someone with a gun or knife while not creating some gore. Guns do a lot more damage to ..."My thoughts exactly. The authors that person asked about all write about spies, killers and soldiers. Not boy scouts or goody two shoes.
The characters they've created have high stress jobs in which they need to let off steam (swear), have to do brutal things in order to survive life threatening situations (violence) and usually need to savor whatever brief attachments they can get due to the occasional difficulty of holding down a steady relationship in their jobs which usually come with odd hours (sex).
What that person said, I don't think exists. Not among contemporary thriller writing at any rate. It is possible to sanitize/down play, but there's so much room to botch it and leave the reader bored to death like you've pointed out.
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Other than this tidbit of info, I am not sure I can contribute rebuttal to Samuel's assertions.
However, what about women authors? I have read plenty of female-author thrillers (Helen MacInnes, etc) and yes those books can often be extremely vanilla. Partly why I don't seek them out; but a few have been interesting enough in themselves. Bari Wood's 'Lightsource' is probably my favorite thriller written by a woman of the feminine persuasion.
There are thrillers too, in which the protagonists are adolescents and not spouting expletives.
Another type of thriller might be some kind of cyborg or android story. Michael Crichton rarely used profanity in his works, seems to me.
And of course any older thriller written in the more chaste/circumspect 1930s-50s might be bereft of all jocularity or otherwise unseemly rambunctiousness.
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I noticed you ran into the person who inspired this thread. https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/... I wonder if Jack Higgins would qualify. The violence in his books isn't gory, I only ever noticed one profane word that his characters have consistently used and from what I've read of his large output, no explicit sex.
Strange how she likes Angel's and Demons, a book which features incredibly twisted murders (like the guy getting dirt shoveled down his throat), attempted rape and torture.
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I sure couldn't keep quiet when confronted with the poppycock she was spreading. Had to let fly. In fact I had to restrain my speech.
On a related note, the person who inspired this thread accidentally reminded me of something. Anyone here familiar with USMC Gunnery Sergeant Bradley Colbert? He was one of the primary subjects of the famous "Generation Kill" journalistic articles written by Rolling Stones columnist Evan Wright. Well when the book came out, there were some complaints. Among them were a few expressions of disbelief, denial and outrage that the modern day American Warrior would use plenty of obscenities on a day to day basis.
Gunnery Sergeant Colbert put forward a theory why such complaints were common. He suggested that many of the war movies made around and after World War 2 were able to influence and create a misconception that war was civilized and glamorous, full of gallant gentlemen who wouldn't swear, when reality is in fact further from that "ideal".
The fact she disparages the war films set during and after the Vietnam War speaks volumes in my opinion.
@ Samuel: I think that the person you allude to has a serious problem of reality-disconnect. She obviously never got close to anything resembling a war zone in her life (I went through three different active war zones during 32 years in the military, so I know what I am talking about). If she wishes to read only sanitized novels for prudes, then so be it, but she should not disparage the works of top authors based on such limiting criterias.
Michel wrote: "@ Samuel: I think that the person you allude to has a serious problem of reality-disconnect. She obviously never got close to anything resembling a war zone in her life (I went through three differ..."My sentiments exactly. Just because a contemporary thriller has something she doesn't like does not make it bad by default. Suggested an author which will satisfy her and informed her that she should't bother trying to check contemporary thrillers for what she says she wants, something that just doesn't exist.
Michel wrote: "@ Samuel: I think that the person you allude to has a serious problem of reality-disconnect. She obviously never got close to anything resembling a war zone in her life (I went through three differ..."Well, here's the thread in question.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
"stand out as writing 'clean' thrillers? Without pervasive profanity, explicit sex scenes, or graphic/grisly gore?"
My response? None whatsoever.
Regarding the three elements that person suggests, I'd say it's impossible to not have at least one, two or all of them in a thriller novel and impossible to have none of them whatsoever.
Or am I being too cynical? I would love to hear your thoughts if writing a "clean thriller" that is actually thrilling is even possible.