All About Books discussion

As already announced in last weeks article, this week it's Jude the Obscure by Thomas Hardy(1895)

From the article:

The publication of Jude the Obscure is both an end and a beginning. In hindsight, it signals the transition to a modern literary sensibility while also painting a picture of a profoundly Victorian rural society. It was another kind of turning-point, too, because Thomas Hardy, shaken by the hostility aroused by the novel dubbed "Jude the Obscene", would never write fiction again. And it was a new beginning because henceforth he would become one of the greatest English poets of the 20th century.

(...)

When the novel opens, we seem to be in Hardy's Wessex, the world of Far From the Madding Crowd or Tess of the d'Urbervilles. But Jude Fawley, who talks to the crows he is supposed to be scaring away, is a modern English boy, with his eye on Christminster (Oxford). He wants an education. With brilliant economy, Hardy opens up three themes: the struggle of the poor and disadvantaged to make their way in a bourgeois world; the tyranny of marriage in the lives of women oppressed by a patriarchal society; and the stranglehold on English life inflicted by an established church, defensively circling its wagons in the aftermath of Darwin's The Origin of Species.

(...)

Jude the Obscure is an angry book, and a deeply radical one. To write it, Hardy went further into himself than ever before, exposed his deepest feelings and was creatively wounded by the hostility of the response to what one critic called "the most indecent book ever written"."

read the article here

Probably in my top five favourite books.

Jean wrote: "Probably in my top five favourite books."

That's praise indeed. Now I want to know what the other four are, but that might be better in another thread!! I haven't read this one, but perhaps I should!

Really want to read this. Love Hardy's writing.

I haven't read this one, the only Hardy books I have read are Tess and The Return of the Native. I enjoy how descriptive Hardy's writing is.

This one is astounding. Unforgettable. I want to read it again. But I don't know if I'm strong enough :)

I've been wanting to reread this one. I remember thinking it was amazing and yet I don't remember many details at all (read it about 20 years ago).

Even with a bad memory, I'd recommend this book.

I didn't like this one so much, gave it '3 stars. I can't remember what it was that didn't make me love it though!

When is week 29, please? Will several be reading this?

Sorry - my post couldn't really have been less informative, could it?! LOL

It's a very bleak book, rather unrelenting and there are many scenes that readers find too dark. The protagonist is a good man fighting against his circumstances, but the tragedies continue to pile on culminating in one particular scene, which caused a furore at the time, and makes for very hard reading.

The analysis Jenny posted at the beginning is a good critical analysis, coupled with this, it may help you decide whether reading it is for you or not. I know some people have said it's the most depressing book they've ever read. A sort of antithesis of Under the Greenwood Tree, to me it shows how far he progressed as a writer.

I think that's probably why I didn't love it, Jean! Just a bit too much for me. I remember feeling quite flat after I finished. Really just start writing more reviews with my star ratings

Chrissie- this is a posting of the guardian best 100 books so not readalongs. You could post a request in our readalong thread to see if others want to join you

Heather wrote: "Chrissie- this is a posting of the guardian best 100 books so not readalongs. You could post a request in our readalong thread to see if others want to join you "

I am new so sometimes I misunderstand stuff. Thank you.

May I ask here, if I want to read a Hardy, is this a good one to start with? It seems like it really says clearly his thoughts, it being his last, causing all the ruckus and finally turning him solely to poetry.

Personally I'd say not! Maybe something like Far from the Madding Crowd which has all his trademarks but is not quite so embittered.

On the other hand, Chrissie, I know you like Russian literature, so can well handle the bleak stuff. So feel free to ignore this! Just don't expect the rest of Hardy to be anything like this, except maybe for Tess of the d'Urbervilles. His novel-writing became darker and darker until he stopped, to concentrate on poetry.

Depressing, it is. At least I think so.

Once, when I was going on holiday abroad, this was the only book in English I took with me. I found it unrelentingly bleak. I always have two books with me on holiday now, just in case!

Jean, yeah you have "pigeon-holed" me correctly; I have no problem with bleak themes. I have also been considering the one you named and The Return of the Native. Hard to pick!

I have trouble with Victorian mannerisms so I thought that JTO might fit me, but maybe I am thinking all wrong.

Gil and Jean, thank you.

Gill and Heather - most of my friends (of both sexes) are in your camp :)

Chrissie - I don't think The Return of the Native is so great, myself. Some people think The Mayor of Casterbridge is his masterpiece. I do like that one too, but have not read it dozens of times, as a self-confessed Hardy nut friend of mine has! LOL

Yes, your point about "Victorian mannerisms" may apply. There's 17 years between the two you are considering. If you have an ereader, maybe try a couple of samples to see how you find the language?

I credit Jude the Obscure as being the first real piece of literature I read voluntarily. I came across it in 9th grade and it honestly opened up an entire world to me.

I've liked everything of Hardy's that I've read, but I agree with Jean that The Mayor of Casterbridge is probably my favorite. I would like to read Under the Greenwood Tree sometime in the near future.

I have added The Mayor of Casterbridge too. Thank you, all of you.

I still do not know what to pick! I understand it is hard for you to help me b/c you don't know me well..... Does it help you pick for me if you know I don't like drippy romance novels?

I've no read it. I have read other books by him; time to pick this one up then ...

LOL Chrissie, he doesn't really do those!

On the other hand, did anyone else find Under the Greenwood Tree incredibly patronising to his "simple country peasant folk" characters? I really bridled!!

Jean wrote: "LOL Chrissie, he doesn't really do those!"

That's good. I spend as much time deciding which books to read as reading them. I think it is between JTO or FFTMC. I could flip a coin....... am I the only one having such a hard time deciding?!

Chrissie - I woke up this morning thinking your first thought was right! So my subconscious (!) reckons Jude the Obscure would suit your taste best.

Usually though, I'd say it's not a good place to start, and you said "to start with"! But I know your dislike of Victorian literature, and I've an idea that if you start with something like Tess of the d'Urbervilles (which I also think is wonderful, by the way!) you may find the heroine so impossible naive that you end up throwing the book across the room! LOL

One great thing about Goodreads - and this group - of course is that you are free to ignore any suggestions and just go your own sweet way :)

Yep, I don't think Tess will work, and you are right that if I begin with something like that I made dump it and never try another. I am pretty sure I have read one of his books, but it was so long ago I consider it "unread". I do remember the lyrical wording and lots of descriptions of nature. I wasn't blown over, back then. Another try is due, and I will pick Jude.

You are great to help me so much pick one. THANK YOU.

OK, here is a dumb question. What does that week 29 refer to.....if it is not a reading date?!

LOL! Jenny is posting the top 100 novels from "The Guardian" newspaper! One critic's choice as I remember - one per week. There have been a few surprises in there already :)

Pleased I could help, Chrissie - as long as you don't blame me if you don't like it, of course! LOL

Jean wrote: "LOL! Jenny is posting the top 100 novels from "The Guardian" newspaper! One critic's choice as I remember - one per week. There have been a few surprises in there already :)

Pleased I could help, ..."

OF COURSE, I will not blame you if I don't like it!!!! It is me that has decided I want to try a Hardy again! I want to thank you for your help in choosing one. This year I have somehow gotten stuck on classics, and I have not read them in years. I like them b/c they are long. I am so very tired of all the hype on brand-new books, which then disappoint! Also for years I have been reading books about different cultures and WW2 - I need a break now, something different.

I liked The Mayor of Casterbridge more than Jude. I liked them both enough to plan on reading Tess in the future

And Far from the Madding Crowd!!

I wonder which I will finally pick up........ I consistently change my mind!

LOL!

Heather wrote: "I liked The Mayor of Casterbridge more than Jude. I liked them both enough to plan on reading Tess in the future"

I've read and enjoyed Tess of the d'Urbervilles, it's the only Hardy I have read, but I plan to read The Mayor of Casterbridge soon as my next Hardy.

Hardy is not one of my favorite Victorian authors, although I liked Tess of the d'Urbervilles enough when I read it in high school that I voluntarily read The Return of the Native. Then last January I read several of Hardy's novels (including Jude the Obscure). I think that The Mayor of Casterbridge may be my favorite but I was surprised by how much I enjoyed Jude the Obscure. I would like to reread some of his that I read in my school days to see if I would like them more now...

Thanks Leslie for YOUR input. I still think I will go for JTO. I have no trouble with depressing tales and it has more descriptive prose of provincial life, the other being set in a city.

Read Hardy extensively in school, more for me re-read goal.

I have to ask all of you who know about this book - are the cities mentioned real ones or fictitious? It said at one point it was set in West Sussex.... I think. The places mentioned are not on this map: http://www.google.se/imgres?imgurl=ht...

Hardy's place-names are in "Wessex" (a Saxon kingdom whose name he revived.) Mostly the places are in today's Dorset and a few in other counties in the West Country. They are all actual places, yes, but he gave them fictitious names. Jude's "Christminster" is Oxford, for instance, and "Melchester" is Salisbury. There are lists of most of the equivalents if you google it, and some of the novels have notes about them too, and a map. They are always consistent. Here's a useful link.

Jean, thank you! That IS funny - I "heard" West Sussex because I didn't know about "Wessex"! I THOUGH the places seemed so real.Ccould he have imagined all he said about Christminster; it all makes sense now with that being Oxford.

Now I am terribly disgusted / annoyed with Sue. Ughhh. What luck this poor guy has! What is interesting is how so many are trying to do the right thing. I do agree with the criticisms Hardy is making about the Victorian straight-laced behavior. Why cannot these people get divorces?! Frustrating. OK, conversely, if you do get married try for God's sake to make it work! I cannot help but get involved in the story, and that is good.

I think you're in for a treat, Chrissie :) (Though some people may think I'm seriously warped for saying that! LOL)

Oh good!!!! Fun you told me.

I first of all want to thank all of you for helping me pick a book by Hardy. Even if the book didn't really please me, I am glad I read it and may try another by him.

This explains a bit: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Chrissie - just moved my comment to your review :)

Jean wrote: "Chrissie - just moved my comment to your review :)"
OK. Was it bad that I put a link to my review here? I thought maybe those who helped me maybe wanted to know.

Chrissie wrote: "Jean wrote: "Chrissie - just moved my comment to your review :)"
OK. Was it bad that I put a link to my review here? I thought maybe those who helped me maybe wanted to know."

not at all Chrissie!! I for one wouldn't have spotted your review otherwise! It's very interesting to hear your thoughts on it by the way, as some of what you are saying for me applied also to Tess of the d'Urbervilles. I am currently actually trying to find my notes on it, somewhere in one of the too many notebooks I have!

Chrissie - sorry if that was what you deduced - it was not my implication at all! I'd just realised that what I posted was a response to your review, so mostly about and your future choices, rather than the book itself. So it was more relevant to that thread than this one. And also more likely that you would definitely pick it up. Also of course anyone wanting to read it could easily access it by accessing your review.

I now realise that it was ambiguous though - sorry! I do tend to say things outright, rather than by implication, but you weren't to know that :) I appreciate links to review as they don't always come up in my notifications or emails otherwise, even from friends. I myself often link to my review from a thread such as this - it saves repeating myself, and discussions can develop from either.

Jenny - I too always group those two novels together! His final two attempts to get his view of the world across, of course...

Oh Jean, I was not upset. I figured it was best to simply ask since I am knew in the group. My philosophy is to NOT get upset about stuff on internet; communication is more difficult when you cannot see the person. You can see so much from facial expressions and body movements and that is completely gone from internet communication.

And Jenny, thank you too for confirming it was OK. In some groups people can get annoyed if you link to your review, so I thought it best to ask. They think you are advertising! Advertising what is my question!!!! I write reviews for myself since it helps me figure out where I stand, and why not help others at the same time. Hopefully my thoughts will help them.

I have heard that about Tess and in fact that is why I have been avoiding it.

I think my next choice will be Far from the Madding Crowd. So you see Jean I DO appreciate your advice and I have not given up on Hardy.

Chrissie - I completely agree, it can be very tricky sometimes on the internet - there are far fewer nuances.

Oh crikey though - the responsibility, if you don't like Far from the Madding Crowd! LOL!

Jean wrote: "the responsibility, if you don't like Far from the Madding Crowd!"

No, no, no don't think like that. I KNOW you are just giving me your pov. The responsibility for choosing is solely mine. But I am the same way: when I love a book I cannot help but praise it and then when people say they are going to read it I get petrified they will think completely different from me.

But I am not going to read it right away. Since it clearly has similar themes with Jude I need some space in between.

That's fine, I was semi-joking. I felt a bit like that the one time my nomination was chosen for the monthly non-fiction read, and found it a real slog myself!

Jean wrote: "That's fine, I was semi-joking. I felt a bit like that the one time my nomination was chosen for the monthly non-fiction read, and found it a real slog myself!"

Oh, I remember it well!

LOL Gill! You had the good sense to get through it quickly ;)