World, Writing, Wealth discussion

remember when you thought finishing your book was the hard part - before you began the grueling process of marketing and promotion? Well, we all know it is a necessary part of the publishing process but Connecting with readers makes it all worth it, for sure. Those relationships begin to point you in the direction of knowing who your target demographic is, which is vital. Knowing this allows you to streamline your marketing and potentially curry a loyal fanbase - one which will read your books without hesitation.

So if you've written a book about librarians who solve murders with the help of their psychic cats should you be marketing to hardcore sci-fi dystopian readers or YA book bloggers? Even though the 'spray and pray' marketing technique occasionally gets it right how wide should our promo nets be cast? At what point should we try to isolate and write for our core demographic and how should we go about it?

I'm beginning to understand that the only way to find an audience is to pay for it. There are plenty of services that do this. I was naive and so astounded by what a book needs to be considered a Best Seller: a good PR company and publicist that can drum up the pre sale orders from major chains, thus giving it legitimate Best Seller status from day one. From my research, I've found that these services start at $10k, with guaranteed results.

Tara wrote: "Even though the 'spray and pray' marketing technique occasionally gets it right how wide should our promo nets be cast? At what point should we try to isolate and write for our core demographic and how should we go about it? ..."

I think first is to understand whether you have a marketable 'product', i.e. something that returns with positive feedback from a random and desirably objective readers/reviewers. Second - to see what readership(s) enjoy(s) the book more and third to find a way to reach them....

Nadia wrote: "I'm beginning to understand that the only way to find an audience is to pay for it. There are plenty of services that do this. I was naive and so astounded by what a book needs to be considered a B..."

Have the same feeling... There are exceptions, but as such they are much fewer than the general rule.. What's your research? It'll be interesting to hear

I would say finding a target audience is not terribly hard. But getting them to read the book may be.
Unfortunately giving away copies has been the easiest way for me to ensure people read the book and leave a review. But even giving away copies to everyone is not enough to ensure they read it and write a review. I usually develop some sort of relationship with readers by commenting on books they are reading/ posts.
It's a slow process and it probably won't ever equate to outrageous success but it's a way to get some reviews and start a growth of readers.

I find it crazy exciting when someone I do not know reads my book and leaves a review (a positive one)

10K for success and results?? What kind of results?

Nik wrote: "Nadia wrote: "I'm beginning to understand that the only way to find an audience is to pay for it. There are plenty of services that do this. I was naive and so astounded by what a book needs to be ..."

Nik, check out www.bestsellerpublishing.org. I'm not endorsing them, but they are an option. They guarantee legitimate best seller status on your book. It's not cheap, but you'll get the result your after, if you're after that.

Yelena wrote: "I would say finding a target audience is not terribly hard. But getting them to read the book may be.
Unfortunately giving away copies has been the easiest way for me to ensure people read the book..."

Yelena: Best Seller status. Where you could legitimately print on your cover "best seller." Google "how to obtain best seller status books" and see what comes up. Or "how to obtain New York Times best seller status books." I've researched it enough to know that unless your a celebrity author, best seller = high pre sale orders from major chains. This can mean Barnes & Noble, or Walmart, or Target, or all of the above. Barnes & Noble also has their own "best seller" status, google it.

It's expensive but the money can be recouped through speaking engagements, especially if your book is a "how to" or a book about self improvement, communication, or politics. A friend of mine works for Comcast and that company has an annual convention in which they have guest speakers come in and share their knowledge, as it applies to business and especially management and customer service. Last year they spent $15K on a speaker that didn't even HAVE a book, but had a popular blog about effective communication.

Also, Google "paid book reviews," you'll find information there about how to get your book in the hands of PAID reviewers. It's not a mystery how non-celebrity authors get dozens of book reviews: they pay for it.

Kirkus offers this service; there are others. Shop around. Here's one link:
https://www.kirkusreviews.com/indie-r...

Huh, that's cool.
I'll take a look at all of that.
Too bad I don't have 10k laying around...
I wonder how many book sales that 10k equates to?

Yelena wrote: "Huh, that's cool.
I'll take a look at all of that.
Too bad I don't have 10k laying around...
I wonder how many book sales that 10k equates to?"

You shouldn't focus on how much money you can make off of the actual book; the REAL money is in speaking engagements. The book just helps you get those.

Once you have one best seller, it's easier to get the representation that you'll need to speak and to get published with a good advance. That's how you make money writing.

The hardest part is to know when the book is really finished. I always feel I could do better.

How difficult out is to get in front of your target audience surely depends on your target audience. If they are most likely keen on social media, then it probably is easy, albeit in with plenty of company. But suppose your target audience typically loathes twitter, ignores Facebook? You might write a blog, but that has barely more readers than your books, for the same reason - there is too much competition. How well written it is is irrelevant if nobody stumbles over it. So it has to be word of mouth, so the trick is to get some mouths working. That again can be easier said than done.

Ian says So it has to be word of mouth, so the trick is to get some mouths working. That again can be easier said than done

I sometimes wonder how the publishers do it. Do they do basically what indies also do for publicity?

The trad publishers have a number of reviewers, and of course bookshops want the latest Stephen King book. That guarantees some cooperation.

Unfortunately, they don't need the latest Ian J Miller book :-(

That's exactly my problem. Ian J Miller's books could be just as interesting. But what form of publicity and how much money was spent for King's guaranteed success.

The big difference between mine and King's latest books are that millions of people have read King's previous books, and very many fewer mine. The trick is clearly to get started in the recognition stakes.

A million dollar question - How. What is it that trad pubs do that beguiles indies.

Mehreen wrote: "A million dollar question - How. What is it that trad pubs do that beguiles indies."

They order professional promotion campaign, get endorsements and pitch every influencer they deem relevant to spread a word about the book. Once the campaign is over, the book has either picked up or not so much. In the latter case, the publisher will hardly keep investing...

Yelena wrote: "I would say finding a target audience is not terribly hard. But getting them to read the book may be...."

There is a true ring to it. I found my audience! They have here on GR few large thriller loving groups, eaching comprising of few thousand members. Let's say 2/3 are inactive and rarely revisit their accounts. Still - few thousand thriller lovers right here in front of my eyes. What do I do now? -:)

Mehreen wrote: "The hardest part is to know when the book is really finished. I always feel I could do better."

I completely agree!
Writing is hard because its a skill that always changes and improves...

Nik wrote:
There is a true ring to it. I found my audience! They have here on GR few l..."

If I ever figure it out.... I will let you know!

Luck and leverage - recipe for success! For every writer is talented.

Nadia wrote: "... check out www.bestsellerpublishing.org. I'm not endorsing them, but they are an option. They guarantee legitimate best seller status on your book. It's not cheap, but you'll get the result your after, if you're after that."

i checked it out. This author's book became an Amazon best seller in less than 1 day, but then the testimonial goes on to say that that helped them to close "more than 14 clients from that particular trade show". many other testimonials are geared towards the books being an adjunct to a larger business, including speaking engagements.

This is the book's rankings:

Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #701,800 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)

#80 in Books > Computers & Technology > Networking & Cloud Computing > Network Administration > Disaster & Recovery
#664 in Books > Computers & Technology > Security & Encryption > Privacy & Online Safety
#3377 in Books > Computers & Technology > Networking & Cloud Computing > Internet, Groupware, & Telecommunications

not bad.

Just checked randomly two books they feature: It All begins with Self and Red Flags. Judging by their ranking and I might be wrong here, but it looks like these books (neither ebook, nor paper) didn't have a single sale on US Amazon marketplace in at least last 5 days. What can this mean? One possible conclusion is that marketing is an on-going thing...

I'm not saying anything about this firm and I believe they are honest dudes, who just know their biz.
Unrelated to them, my own fear (and I'm not touching even moral or legal aspect) with some of the 'guaranteed' achievement of best-selling status, is that somebody, for example, charges 2k for that, instructs the author to price the book at 1$, uses out of 2k charged, 1k to purchase 1k books through click farms and thus achieve a remarkable Amazon ranking and 1k profit. Needless to say, in such case - no reviews, no word of mouth afterwards and the ranking falls quickly...

How many sales would make a best seller?

I remember seeing some estimates or true data, maybe on some UK group it was...
To reach overall Amazon best -selling rank, you need more than 1k sales, but depending on a sub-genre, it's relatively easy to get to # 1 spot . With a single sale in my sub-genre I was in the first hundred on Amazon Australia for a couple of days -:)

Wow! Congratulations.

It's likely that a lot of us will be aware of these resources but just in case here are two websites that provide fiction, non-fiction and poetry market details

https://duotrope.com/ - charges a subscription but first month free

http://www.ralan.com/ - free of charge

If anyone knows of others they will all help

Thanks, for bringing these, Neil. Look like very helpful resources....