Our Shared Shelf discussion

I just got cat called tonight at the gas station by two white men who then proceeded to drive away and laugh. This is the last straw! I'm so sick of being sexually harassed in public and in the workplace. I have had to basically fight my managers to stop the sexual harassment while I'm at work. That is never okay! They would just shrug it off as a joke or etc. I find it horrible that it is 2016 and women are still being treated as though they are pieces of meat that are only seen as sexual objects. I'm much more than that, and so is every woman on this page and in this world. I was wandering if I could hear some of your all's ideas about how to combat this problem. I think education is a must, and people should be educated about sexual harassment at school and work. However, is this enough? Would you all be in favor of imposing punishments for people whom sexually harass others in public?

I don't think we can really set a punishment for catcalling because it can vary so much and everyone will interpret it in different ways / use different ways I think to create guidelines would be hard but I agree that something should be done

I'm very sorry you had to go through that. You deserve so much better <3

Thank you!

I think it is important for women to show their tough side. We should more engage in powerful jobs to give a message to society that a woman is not a toy to play and leave.
Changing mental attitude has become essential which I agree must start with school level.
Learning Martial arts also boosts confidence anf may help in improving situation.

And I really appreciate that you raised a voice at your workplace because it needs courage to do something about it.

I got cat called last week. I live in a pretty small town (5000 inhabitants if you count the smaller towns that shares our zipcode) and I am not used to being cat called here. If I go to one of the nearest bigger cities I'm aware of the possibillity and I wear my mental cat calling-filter, but here, at home - I wasn't prepared for it! I was walking home with my kids (3 and 5) and this man walks by us, yells something like "hot mama" and makes kissing sounds at me. It was so uncomfortable. I feel safe here, this is the zone where I can relax, I don't want to be cat called anywhere or in any situation, but here, at home, with my kids? No way!

I'm so sorry that you were cat called. It's humiliating, and I couldn't imagine being cat called in front of your kids! I would have gone ballistic. I live in a fairly medium-large city in Kentucky, and it's common place to be cat called here. I don't know if it's because of lack of education or the fact that some Kentuckians still want it to be 1930...

I was so unprepared that I didn't react at all.
It's far from the first time it has happened, but never here. This is a town where most of us knows each other (or at least we know of each other) and you don't cat call people you know. It just took me offguard.

I'm sad that we're on the half of 2016 yet cat calling is still real. When will this stop? I want to share to you that I have this traumatic incident in my life 5years ago, I was once cat called when I was 12 by these kinda scary looking guys I heard them saying, "Hey young girl! What's your name?" And then the other guy said, "Wanna have some fun?" And started laughing ..

I just don't mind them because I really have to go home! and then suddenly I feel that they were following me, my heart beats so fast and I started crying, on that young age all I can think of is what if they do something bad to me? I don't wanna die so I run faster until I get home and call for help... and thank God I'm 17 now and I'm still alive.

I have no idea what happen to those guys, my friend said that they have not seen by the police after that incident ..

I'm 17 now but I can still remember that day! It's still fresh in my mind and I know that it will be forever in my mind but I'm really hoping that this kind of humiliation has to STOP! So that women will not be able to experience what I have experienced that day.

That's so horrifying! I'm glad you're okay! One of my coworkers was almost kidnapped by a c at caller the other day! Thank God she had a knife to defend herself!

Once I was walking with a friend and a man looked at us and then said something like "Oh, beautiful, pretty girl, etc.". I was so horrified I couldn't react at all, but my friend did say "Stop". And then he insulted us... I felt so uncomfortable and angry also, but most of all shocked and humiliated.

It led to dangerous situations in my case sometimes as well as my friends .

I think that sometimes people underestimate how intimidating it is. It's not a question of not being able to take a compliment. Every time it happens to a woman she has to wonder if that person will follow her, and how long it will go on. I'm the oldest of three girls, and the worst has always been when it happens to my sisters and I when we're together. For some reason, I am so much more fearful when my little sisters are around, even now as adults. I'm scared to death that it will escalate and something bad will happen to one of them.

I had a man cat call my friend and I, and he then proceeded to say that he would rape us. Luckily, one of my college's security guards heard the entire thing, and led us to safety.

Alexis wrote: "I just got cat called tonight at the gas station by two white men who then proceeded to drive away and laugh. This is the last straw! I'm so sick of being sexually harassed in public and in the wor..."

I am sorry that happened to you! Perhaps education is the way to go. At least that way more people would be aware of this issue and recognize that it isn't right.

Corey wrote: "I think that sometimes people underestimate how intimidating it is. It's not a question of not being able to take a compliment. Every time it happens to a woman she has to wonder if that person wil..."

Thats the thing about cat-calling, what they initially say isn't (usually) overtly hostile you just know that there's a decent chance it will be followed by some insult or a horrendous threat when you don't respond exactly how they want. And sometimes actually following through on the threat.

Which is what happened to my coworker Friday. A man cat called her. She told him to stop, he then proceeded to grope her and tried to kidnap her. However, she was armed with a knife, so she was able to get away.

It sucks that we are forced to defend ourselves in the first place. We shouldn't feel threatened at all!

^ I agree Alexis!

We're on the 21st century but Women still can't achieve respect at all.

I was walking in New York 2 summers ago with my daughters, 21 and 15. they were holding hands and enjoying a brief visit with a family friend. There were occasional random cat calls from a distance, which we ignored. Then we passed a group of men who were taking a break on the street. One of them, over the age of 40, cat called my 15 year old. I was shocked and disgusted at his boldness. I don't remember what he said but it was graphic. My friend reminded the man that the younger girl was my daughter and a minor. The man looked somewhere between ashamed and put out. I was surprised that cat calling had become so commonplace that grown men didn't recognize when their behavior was stepping over into pedophilia. I had heard that that summer was particularly bad for cat calling in New York. We'll be visiting again in a week and will see if anything's improved.

When I went to NYC in 2011 with my senior class, we were cat called as well mostly in Times Square.

I get cat called when I run or jog. What's more disturbing is some are around age of 30 above. And the way they would ogle when I pass them by disgusts me.

The school that I teach at had to go to a closed lunch period for our students for this very reason. The girls who this was happening to were 12 and 13 years old.

Cat calling is seriously so awful and disrespectful. We aren't dogs or objects to sit and yell at. I can take a compliment, but the way they say it is not something I appreciate. My friend refuses to even wear shorts because she was cat called by two older men the last time she wore them.

My older sister was at a bar and an old man, like about 60 years old, pointed out she had large breasts. She ignored him, but a short while later he was escorted out because he was making a big fuss about the price of the beer.

Thankfully, she works in an environment where people respect her body. When she wears a short skirt or tights, her co-workers compliment her.

I just watched a Video on YouTube of a lady walking the streets of NY City for 10 hours, she was harassed over 100 times, the video of course only shows some of them and wow it was disturbing.

I figured as a male who has hardly ever been Cat Called i would go check out a video to try and see just how uncomfortable it is. all i can say is wow! I'm sitting here a little in shock actually.

Video was called '10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman' should anyone be interested though it seems you all already know just how it feels :(

If only it was legal to tase(taser) people.

Someone makes cards that women can hand to cat alleys explaining that it is offensive and makes women uncomfortable, but of course it would depend on how comfortable you are in that situation. I'm always afraid that if I say or do anything it will provoke the individual.

Emma wrote: "Does anyone have any suggestions to deal with cat calling aside from ignoring it?"

Well, It depends on the nature of the catcall. If it's friendly or casually flattering ("Hello beautiful" or "Nice legs") I'll take it as a compliment and say "Thanks". While whistles, hooting, or any non word noises don't get a response at all.

And If they were close enough to touch me, maybe that's the time to confront them and say, "didn't your mom tell you to respect girls?" Or explain why that was inappropriate.

But most preferably to ignore them because "silence is my self-defense" (even though I really wanted to smack their face or kick them in the balls).

It is really unfortunate that such things happen. And I am deeply sorry that this incident happened. I know we the members of this group can only offer words as consolation, but there is sincere sentiment behind those words.

The problem IMHO is the upbringing and the environment. These men are a product of a system that promotes sense of entitlement in men. Probably, many of the men are even unaware that what they do is not harmless banter.

There are some of us in the world who know better. Let us, the people who know and care, raise the next generation that is compassionate, caring and above all respectful of each other.

Sara wrote: "Once I was walking with a friend and a man looked at us and then said something like "Oh, beautiful, pretty girl, etc.". I was so horrified I couldn't react at all, but my friend did say "Stop". An..."

Sara, where is here the offensive?

Tadej wrote: "Sara wrote: "Once I was walking with a friend and a man looked at us and then said something like "Oh, beautiful, pretty girl, etc.". I was so horrified I couldn't react at all, but my friend did s..."

If you read the thread you'll see how often a 'compliment' is followed by a threat/insult/actual violence (as it was in this case- sara says he then insulted them). So that first 'compliment' is basically a threat telling them to oblige the catcaller or else. Sara implies it went for a while, they clearly didn't respond positively and eventually when they told him to stop he insulted them.

How is that not offensive?

I really like this article- its just explains it so well (for me at least). https://mic.com/articles/143478/one-t...

This quote from the bottom is brilliant (It was initially taken from a 2013 article by Holly Kearl):

More importantly, both catcalls and assault are forms of entitlement. The (primarily) male street harassers believe they have the right to access girls' and women's bodies. They feel they can say and do whatever they want, and if women don't comply, well, then they're a bitch or ugly, and the men may feel justified in grabbing them, throwing trash at them, assaulting them or running them over.

Well, if you wanted to change others, you're not on the right path. If you're going to change yourself, you can change your perception of situation and take it as compliment, nothing more.

Sara reacted as it was an insult, but it should react as it was an compliment. Behind every word there is still a motive. And because every character defines some situation trough his view on the world, the same word can have a lot of different meanings.

So as Sara would not reacted, and tried to stop them, it should react as accept the compliment as the compliment has well known definition. Instead of this, he assumed that this was insult, and he reacted as he "explained" by herself. Out of her explanation, she created the negative meaning of compliment.

It is not on Sara, that she tries to "figure out" what someone is thinking about her, but it is on her, to have a clear mind and to react in way of positivism.

Tadej wrote: "It is not on Sara, that she tries to "figure out" what someone is thinking about her, but it is on her, to have a clear mind and to react in way of positivism. "

Emmm, no.

There is nothing that suggests that Sara needs to accept anything from anyone positively. If she feels that cat calling is not something that she is comfortable with she is allowed to feel that way. It sexist to even suggest she accept a cat call as positive when not everyone reacts to things the same way. Trying to tell someone THEY need to change their perception of what they feel as harassment is not the correct line of thinking.

On another note ive been watching this thread not sure how to address it. Ive never cat called a girl but have maybe lingered with a gaze here and there when i see a pretty woman when im out and about town. While i dont stare for days im not sure if me simply looking for a short time should be constituted as cat calling or harassment. I mean after all people are attracted to people they find attractive. But i dont do anything beyond that and surely dont go and start whistling or anything else.

But i do have a question for the girls or women of the group.

While i have never experienced or witnessed men cat calling to the point where they start to get aggressive or mean i can recall as a teen witnessing other boys whistling or cat calling teen girls while they pass by in their cars. But the girls themselves would yell back and smile as it seemed they liked the attention.

So do you think this behavior is something that should be addressed on both ends of the spectrum? I mean, as a teen boy i could imagine if you got a response that was positive from your cat calling that it would send a message that maybe some girls like this kind of thing and thus wouldnt be much of a deterrent. If some girls do like the glaring, whistling, cat calling because they like the attention than what is the answer to this problem for women who dont want that kind of attention?

Cat calling should not be seen as a compliment. These men think that they are entitled to our bodies when they aren't!

Tadej wrote: "Well, if you wanted to change others, you're not on the right path. If you're going to change yourself, you can change your perception of situation and take it as compliment, nothing more.

Sara r..."

Street harassment is threatening- Sara and her friend had to ask him to stop- he clearly wasn't leaving them alone. Women get followed down a street having 'compliments' called out at them.

If a guy followed you down a street saying "Oh, beautiful, pretty boy, etc." would that make you feel comfortable? You've ignored him but he won't shut up- he keeps commenting on how sexually attractive you are, making it clear he wants to fuck you. You've walked faster- he's followed you. You know that there's chance he might get violent if you ask him to stop. You know other people who've been threatened, insulting and even attacked by other guys in similar situations. Would you take that as a compliment or a threat?

He didn't explain anything- he insulted them when they asked him to stop.

It's not on Sara to figure out what someone is thinking- she shouldn't have to because she should be able to walk down the street without being harassed and when she tells someone to stop they should, immediately and without then insulting her.

It's on men to recognise that catcalling is harassment, it makes women feel threatened and unsafe.

i am really self conscious so when i get cat called i feel like they are just making fun of me apart from the sexual harassment tbh so idk if others feel that way

i am really self conscious so when i get cat called i feel like they are just making fun of me apart from the sexual harassment tbh so idk if others feel that way

I feel that way to Catherine. The ducked that did it the other night were laughing!

James wrote: "But I do have a question for the girls or women of the group ..."

Personally I am also a sensitive person, but like what I've said dealing with cat calling depends on the nature of the cat call if it's casually flattering like "Hello Beautiful" or "Your sexy" for me I am considering it as a compliment. But if they go beyond that maybe that's the time to confront them and of course, defend myself.

And those teen girls who've mention earlier James, not because they yell back and smiled doesn't mean that they like that kind of thing! We have no idea what they're thinking that time. Maybe they're just being polite to those teen boys who cat called them, we don't know! Because being Polite is sometimes a good defense against cat calling (it maybe shames or irritates those cat callers!) but I'm not saying to be very polite everytime! Again it depends on the nature and to the feeling of the person.

Christine wrote: "James wrote: "But I do have a question for the girls or women of the group ..."

Personally I am also a sensitive person, but like what I've said dealing with cat calling depends on the nature of t..."

It also depends on the situation- I work as a receptionist and every now and every now an then a guy will start calling me beautiful or gorgeous (thank you beautiful ect.) and it always makes me super uncomfortable, like mortifyingly uncomfortable. But in a social situation I don't generally have a problem with it. (I don't count catcalling as a social situation).

Tadej wrote: "Sara wrote: "Once I was walking with a friend and a man looked at us and then said something like "Oh, beautiful, pretty girl, etc.". I was so horrified I couldn't react at all, but my friend did s..."


So I've followed all the comments afterwards too, and pretty much everything I will say was already said (thank you all too).

I'm a teen who accepted herself for who she is and how she is, but still I don't like when people I don't know at all, strangers, tell me that I'm physically beautiful.
For me, it does not feel like a compliment - it's just the way I feel - and another person could take it as such.
I'm more sensitive when meeting new people, and having a person start by how beautiful I am to him, while we're on the street and just passing like that, I don't like it. And also, looks count but you cannot really describe them.
My friend and me we were both uncomfortable.

But I don't think I have to explain how I feel about this, I didn't feel good and for me that's it.
(I hope that didn't sound rude)

And yes, afterwards, he insulted us for telling him to stop. Like he thought we had no right to tell him to stop, and I don't think that's ok either.

I feel like there needs to be more awareness about cat calling because a lot of time it does become violent as in the case of my coworker. I feel like cat calling needs to be in the same category as sexual harassment because that is what it is. However, people such as the owners and the managers at my place of employment do not see it like this.

Emma wrote: "Does anyone have any suggestions to deal with cat calling aside from ignoring it?"

Since you asked that I have been racking my brain trying to see a solution or anything that will help and honestly it almost feels as hopeless as trying to stop telemarketers from phoning or trying to push back an ocean wave.

That said though, there are a heck of a lot of people here that I am sure might be willing to sign a letter or something imploring the police to send some female cops down some of these 'cat alleys' with body camera's on .... though I admit I am not sure to the legality or illegality of Cat calling as far as the law is concerned. But if there was a way they could crack down on it, it may help?

Robert wrote: "Emma wrote: "Does anyone have any suggestions to deal with cat calling aside from ignoring it?"

Since you asked that I have been racking my brain trying to see a solution or anything that will hel..."

I came across this BBC article this evening which you guys maybe interested in.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews...

It says that Nottinghamshire police have classed Cat Calling under Misogyny Hate Crime, the first police force in Britain to do so.

While criminalizing this type of misogyny behaviour will probably have the desired effect in changing social behaviour in time, in this respect for the good, I wonder whether it is being too heavy handed?

I do not think it would be too heavy handed because the vast majority of Cat Callers wouldn't be prosecuted, I'm sure burden of proof would be a nightmare, but perhaps the most heinous of cases could be, which might just act as a deterrent.

I don't know if I would feel okay with a law, as it does infringe on free speech, and is also a really gray area. A lot of it depends on context, tone, body language, etc. For example, the other day at work a guy held the door open for me. I said thank you, and the way he smiled and said "you're welcome" was really weird and made me uncomfortable. You know, sort of a "keep your vocal fry to yourself, buddy", sort of situation. I didn't complain to anybody, because I would feel ridiculous doing so, and what am I complaining about? But men and women hold the door for me at work all the time (and vice versa) and it's never made me uncomfortable before. That wasn't street harassment, it was, maybe, the workplace sexual harassment, but the example is still relevant. If he had something to me on the street, I wouldn't have wanted him to be charged with a misdemeanor. Sadly, being a jerky isn't illegal.

Corey wrote: "I don't know if I would feel okay with a law, as it does infringe on free speech, and is also a really gray area. A lot of it depends on context, tone, body language, etc. For example, the other da..."

It's not necessarily about what they're saying - it can be the harassment side of it, being followed, being screamed at ect. And some of what is said- threatening/inciting violence is already illegal.

It's also not just the USA where it's a problem.

What's sad is that our usual choice is to ignore them cat callers as possible as we can.

@James, I am not saying that she should take cat calling as positive, but her reaction should be positive, not negative. This means that she does not take any of cat calling serious, and nothing in "her world" would keep her down. For this it is needed much self appreciation and self-esteem.

Catherine express his self conscious, self-esteem, and this is why she does not get bother. Even in a world that is pessimistic (looking through psychology) exist self-esteem that will protect and let conscious know that this is only someone elses opinion. But this is for this character really hard, because this is subconscious virtue. Alexis is rather same optimistic character or has this virtue raised by herself in his world.

Sara, in every "world" (this is metaphor for human), different situations have different meanings. You have explained your situations with fear, which is normally and belongs to most women character. Someone as Catherine or Alexis would not even care as half as much as you do. However if you believe that this was something that you explained with negative feeling (not meaning) it is just up to you, but it is in the same time up to you, if you wanted that feelings, when you're cat called continuous, stay the same. In your "world" you have all the power to change the meaning, and come to important insights. The other human is the same whole "world" as you, and perverts are thinking far different in the situation when they see someone like this. I am saying that such kind of people would exist still a long time, because there is no love on this planet anymore, and because society prefers more and more narrow human values.

I am here explaining something that individual should do, because the society is already going in the wrong direction and this is why we have so much diseases, so much names for different sexually orientation, so much stereotypes. But if you're a girl, that closes with her looks to common accepted society concept of beauty, this is how people would treat you. Some will cat call you, some will offer you a work as a photo model.

Sara, one more thing, accepting yourself means that you accept everything what you're doing and lend, tell, show, it to anyone, anywhere, not only things that society prescribes ;)

Emma wrote: "Does anyone have any suggestions to deal with cat calling aside from ignoring it?"

The cat calling is something that comes from someone else. This said it, it is also a subconscious trigger, that comes from one of the mind that operates with our wishes and expectations. This is not a conscious action and comes from a man or women, that cannot accept his own world, and tries to compensate the needs with outside world. This is the same as people who are greedy, compensate with things which they buy. Said so, every human tries to find the best feeling in himself, but because of this day society and default thinking, every individual thinks that will perfect himself with possessions, appearance, money, education, sexual attraction, and so on. But those outside compensations, are nothing than good feeling that will last for a few days. Then, it will recur, and the situations will repeat. Every individual should seek for internal satisfaction without the aggressive intervention. And those who'll find it, they will stay happy, they will have lot less wishes, and they will enjoy his life on every step.

Let me add something to explanation of ignoring. If you're ignoring the cat calling, you're doing this with conscious mind, which is opposite to subconscious minds. This means that you can feel even worse after doing this. Instead of this, it is important to come to insight, that those people does not accept his own world and others. Because they think they live in the same world as others, they also do not have any borders, and because they do not accept others, they cannot accept that there are a lot of different motives for sexual life. As I said, this is only subconscious reaction, it is also good to accept, that it comes from this way, ... probably those cat callers would also reject any invitation to having sex ;))