Support for Indie Authors discussion

Just when I discover the benefits of pre-orders, KDP changes rules on how they work lol. The new rule that throws a wrench in my plans in that they will not let you upload a draft manuscript anymore to publish the pre-order. It says it has to be the final version only. Boo.

If the pre-order draft has to be the real thing what is the benefit of a pre-release? I ask because I am considering it but I don't know enough about it to make a decision. Thank you :-)

Did KDP mention anything about not allowing reviews posted on pre-orders before the book is released? I saw in another group that this was an issue and that really bums me out, because that was a huge benefit to pre-orders as an indie author.

Someone suggested that if you do the pre-order in paperback and e-book then it should work, but no one was quite sure. That costs money and so it is limited mostly to publishers. Thoughts?

Tara wrote: "If the pre-order draft has to be the real thing what is the benefit of a pre-release? I ask because I am considering it but I don't know enough about it to make a decision. Thank you :-)"

Tara, My thoughts exactly! : )

Heidi, I've seen books up for pre-order on Amazon with no option to post a review.

I imagine people were uploading crappy place holders, abandoning the project and moving on, leaving anxious readers in the lurch?

Benefits of a pre-order have to do with ranks and visibility you can get before releasing your book. It worked out nicely with the book I just released (85 pre-orders put the book at #2 in its category). I didn't do much promotion/advertising with that one, so I imagine that with the right advertising and launch, some books can get a nice boost to the top with a pre-order.

I've already got a lot of pre-orders for the book I just listed, which was prior to these changes. I was able to upload a "draft" of the book so that the pre-order is LIVE on Amazon while the book is in the formatting stage. Now I guess I'll have to wait for my files to come back from the formatters before I can set up the other pre-order I was working on, which messes up the timeline I had set up for myself. Ah well.

Heidi, you can't post reviews until the release day of a book (on Amazon). You can post reviews to goodreads and other places, though. The trick is to get your reviewers to post it on or near the release date for Amazon.

I've heard of a pre-order trick with a paperback, but to be honest it sounds like risky business. It's basically publishing a paperback, then immediately un-publishing it, so that it is listed on Amazon but not available for sale. Since it was published, reviews can be left to later on be merged with the ebook version.

That kind of sucks. I will still do an e-book pre-order as part of my launch tour, but if the paperback pre-order doesn't open up the reviews, then I'm not paying for it. I don't make enough on pre-orders to cover the cost.

In all honesty, I've never dared upload a draft for preorder. I have always uploaded a final version because I don't trust that glitches won't happen.

@Miss Marie: Thank you so much for sharing this!!

May I ask where you found the changes? I still only see this:

https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A...

And I was gonna use it this week with a draft version...

*sobs*

I'm with Christina here. I would never dare upload a draft for pre-release. It has to be ready or it stays on my computer (or in beta readers/editor, but nowhere else!).

I began a pre-order (draft) a few weeks ago, and went in today to continue the setup. That's when I got this message when I tried to set it up:

G.G. wrote: "I'm with Christina here. I would never dare upload a draft for pre-release. It has to be ready or it stays on my computer (or in beta readers/editor, but nowhere else!)."

Haha I totally had nightmares (literal nightmares) that customers would receive my draft version. I checked the file over and over to make sure the customers would receive the final version and not the sad little draft one. I still wasn't sure how it would work until release day ha.

Oh, crap haha!

I reckon we can still edit and reupload up till the date, right? (Makes logical sense, I think. Maybe lol)

This is where the "learn more" link goes: https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A...

but it doesn't say anything about the draft part, just the price change part.

Annie wrote: "Oh, crap haha!

I reckon we can still edit and reupload up till the date, right? (Makes logical sense, I think. Maybe lol)"

I hope so! I want to start the pre-ordering process while my book is still in final rounds of editing. Either I push back publication, or I have a much shorter pre-order time.

Oh, sadness.

Annie wrote: "Oh, crap haha!

I reckon we can still edit and reupload up till the date, right? (Makes logical sense, I think. Maybe lol)"


Yes, but I'd be too worried about the 'What if?" thingy. With my luck? You can be sure there would be plenty. lol Or something would prevent Amazon from accepting the file. Nah, not worth the nightmares i'd have until launched day :P

Marie wrote: "This is where the "learn more" link goes: https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A...

but it doesn't say anything about the draft part, just the price change part."

I don't think that's new though.

I'm gonna try finishing my preorder setup on Friday and see what happens. I wonder if it's like KDP Print where not all authors are treated equal LMAO!!

Seriously, though, shall give it a go and let you peeps know if anything blows up ^_~

I did a pre-order for my last book prior to this change and it was right at the deadline for the final draft to be in for pre-orders. it wasn't done so I just uploaded the draft anyway. I was able to still go in and make changes to the "final" draft prior to release date without affecting the release date or anything. Maybe this changed with the new rules, but if not, the changes won't matter. at least in that regard.

Annie wrote: "I'm gonna try finishing my preorder setup on Friday and see what happens. I wonder if it's like KDP Print where not all authors are treated equal LMAO!!

Seriously, though, shall give it a go and l..."

Looking forward to your results :) I JUST set up a pre-order on Sept 29 without having these issues, so this is a pretty new thing they're rolling out.

As a buyer, the price protection rule has been in place for over a decade. The buyer is guaranteed to receive the lowest price from the date of order to the date of shipment.

Sue (Rescue Dog Mom) wrote: "As a buyer, the price protection rule has been in place for over a decade. The buyer is guaranteed to receive the lowest price from the date of order to the date of shipment."

Okay, I see. For some reason, that is the link they give on two places in the setup page that say the rules have been updated. I thought it must have been new.

I see it too, Miss Marie.

Under Select Your Book Release Option (release now/preorder), it says "We’ve recently updated this feature" and leads to the price protection page thingy.

Awww! *hugs poor, confused Amazon* It's okay, little buddy!!

(Not crazy, just tired haha)

I released my latest book on pre-order and was able to upload a draft manuscript. I made sure that I had the final version uploaded long before Amazon’s deadline. It worked quite well and was easy to do. Amazon even sent an email reminder to ensure that I had the final version up before the due day.

I wish Amazon had kept the same process, though. I think it was great to have the pre-order up without having to upload the final version (my book was still going through the last rounds of edits and final tweaks while the pre-order was live).

Oh, well… They make the rules.

Interestingly enough, when I went in to look, I saw a bunch of other odd options pop up and immediately go away, like do the pages of this book flip left to right or right to left? I assume that's new because of the page flip feature, but like ibsaid, it went away on me, so I could have had a mini-hallucination.

I have a pre-order running now and I uploaded my ARC version as a placeholder, and there were no problems. I only set it up a week or two ago. But yeah, no one can leave reviews.

So good to know for the future so I'm not disappointed then.

When I set up a preorder the other day, I never saw the thing that said we can't upload drafts anymore. But I did notice that the disclaimer saying you can upload the draft had disappeared. I went digging and found this page: https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A...

It says you can still upload a draft, but they have changed the time before release that you need to have the final version uploaded. It's gone from 10 days to 3! So, I think this change is actually good for us, no?

It does make me a bit nervous that there is no option to select 'this is just a draft' though.

I found this same message and have delayed putting up my pre-order page until I'm comfortable that I have the best possible version of my book. In the past, we've always been able to upload updated versions of published books, whether correcting a spelling error or adding a LCCN to the copyright page. I find it hard to believe that authors would be locked out of making these types of corrections in the future. That said, I think this may be KDPs way of saying don't push to publish until you're ready.

Just had to take down my second title for pre-order. I pushed the date back to give myself more time, however, they still wanted me to submit a finished copy on the original date. What's the point of pushing it back?

Seriously frustrated with the entire thing. Smashwords, while it doesn't have nearly as large a sales base, greatly passes KDP in the department of pre-orders.

Aislinn wrote: "When I set up a preorder the other day, I never saw the thing that said we can't upload drafts anymore. But I did notice that the disclaimer saying you can upload the draft had disappeared. I went ..."

That's so weird. I just read that page yesterday and it said 10 days.

So, am I understanding this right, that in the past, authors have set up a final version/ready-for-release pre-order, but are still able to make changes before the release date?

I have a preorder up now, which I put up a few days ago. I can still make changes to the file, or upload a new version. I am planning to upload the final version next week or so.

What I am guessing the change is, is that Amazon will release whatever is uploaded on release day. They simply aren't differentiating between drafts and final copies anymore.

Aislinn wrote: "I have a preorder up now, which I put up a few days ago. I can still make changes to the file, or upload a new version. I am planning to upload the final version next week or so.

What I am guessin..."

It must be their way of dealing with people who cop out of pre-orders by failing to upload a final draft.

They hold your draft hostage - upload something better or THIS IS GOIN' OUT!

I get where they're coming from. A draft is an unfinished product. Wait until you are ready to publish, and then publish. If you need to upload updates later, you can, but try to get the best product out you can on the first try.

Thanks for the update. That's good to know. I agree though about only uploading the final - I know enough about tech glitches. The final is the safest way to go.

Morris wrote: "I get where they're coming from. A draft is an unfinished product. Wait until you are ready to publish, and then publish. If you need to upload updates later, you can, but try to get the best produ..."

I would never let Amazon publish what I put up as a draft. But I do often put my books up for preorder early, because I like to have the next book available for preorder before the current one releases. (I'm weird like that). It just means that often my books aren't finalised yet when they are up for preorder. I don't think there is anything wrong with doing that (Amazon condones it, and it's pretty much what the preorder period is for). So... *shrug*

So for the final version that some of you upload...can you still make changes to it before the release date?

Marie wrote: "So for the final version that some of you upload...can you still make changes to it before the release date?"

As per the new rules, you can edit up to 3 days before release. It locks in after than. (And you can, of course, edit it after release).

Aislinn wrote: "Marie wrote: "So for the final version that some of you upload...can you still make changes to it before the release date?"

As per the new rules, you can edit up to 3 days before release. It locks..."

Previously, you could upload a new version until 10 days before the date, I guess they've made it 3 now.

The change to require a complete draft, lacking only final edits, I think was a good move. A major benefit of preorders is selling books an author already has out. A preorder for a new book in series can provide a huge boost for the other books, creating an incentive to upload a "placeholder" months in advance to gain that benefit at the risk of not being able to complete the book in time. So I imagine KDP decided tighten that up.

@Miss Marie: Reporting back, as promised ^_~

Just set up a pre-order with my rough draft and it's in review now. They never asked if was the final version and I didn't receive any "warning" message either...

*scratches head*

Oddballs, eh?

Thank you, Annie, that is helpful! I wonder if I should set up a new pre-order then, because it is still giving me the same message about the final version.

@Miss Marie: Can't hurt to try, eh?

Stuff disappears and reappears all the time haha! Maybe you can sneak in while they're not watching *smirks* Seriously, though, I hope it works!!

An update from me. I set up my preorder a week ago, and today I got the email saying 'make sure you upload the final version by the 17th of November!' So, it looks like you can still change it up to a few days before.

However, the email is a little scary. The only time they mention the 17th is in the email title. The rest of it is all 'make sure it's uploaded now' and then berates you.

So, I guess they are just trying to put the fear of God into people that have been messing with the system. ;)

Haha, great update, thanks!! :)

So KDP is sticking to the 10 day rule for the pre-order that I set to release on Nov 22, haha. Here is their strongly worded email that I received yesterday (bold is theirs):

the Zon god says: Thank you for making your book Davenport House 6 available for pre-order.

We see that you have not yet submitted the final version of the book file. Please remember you are required to provide the final file by 11:59 PM US Eastern Time on 11/11/2016 (4:59 AM UTC the following day). Maintaining a positive customer experience is important, and delivering your book on schedule is required to retain access to pre-order. If you do not upload the final version of your book on time, your pre-order will be cancelled and customers will be notified that you did not publish your book. Also, you will lose pre-order access for one year.

Pre-order title: Davenport House 6

Final version of book file due: before 11:59 PM US Eastern Time 11/11/2016 (4:59 AM UTC the following day)

Release date: 11/22/2016

Hmm. So, all in all pretty much as clear as mud. There doesn't seem to be much point to this pre-order business at all, unless you happen to have a manuscript to hand that's pretty much the finished article.

Hmm. Very strange, Miss Marie. I got the exact same email as Aislinn. Not much of a scary warning at all haha! For reference sake:

Subject: Please ensure your KDP pre-order is ready by 11/17/2016

Dear Annie Arcane,

Thank you for making your book, Hart of His (The Hart Series, Book 2), available for pre-order through KDP.

Your pre-order is set for release at 11/21/2016. Please check your KDP account to ensure that you've uploaded the final version of the book you want customers to receive. Maintaining a positive customer experience is important, and part of that experience is to ensure that customers get the version of the book you would like them to read. A bad customer experience could result in negative customer reviews for your book.

Learn more about pre-orders here.

Thanks again for choosing KDP to publish your work.

Best Regards,
Kindle Direct Publishing Team

Thanks for posting that, Ann. Interesting stuff!

Annie wrote: "Hmm. Very strange, Miss Marie. I got the exact same email as Aislinn. Not much of a scary warning at all haha! For reference sake:

Subject: Please ensure your KDP pre-order is ready by 11/17/2016
..."

It is exactly the same, right down to the dates! :p

It must have something to do with when we uploaded them. Marie, you must have got them on a bad day. :/

Hey check out this new non-scary message from KDP for my pre-order :)