Support for Indie Authors discussion

Hi all,

I was just wondering if anyone else has had this experience, or if I'm doing something wrong.

I sent an updated version of my latest book through just after it was released. The new file was accepted according to my bookshelf. However, I got my friend (who had bought the book) to update the file on the 'manage the content and devices page', and the check the book - and it's still the old copy.

Because I didn't have an 'update' button, I deleted my own copy of the book and bought it again, same problem. It's the old copy.

So, what gives? Am I doing something wrong? The changes aren't bad enough to forcibly push out to everyone, but I at least want the people buying the book now (after the update) to get the new copy.

If you have purchased a copy, and purchase it again -- even though you deleted it bought it a second time -- you get the original copy you purchased. To get an update, I've had get on-line with Amazon customer support and asked for the current release. (Which they have always supplied immediately.) The "update" button doesn't seem to mean "update" as in get the latest version, but "update" your device with a copy of the file you had.

People who buy the book for the first time will get the updated copy. If you want to be sure what file is being released to new buyer, you can download the preview file from your KDP bookshelf.

Basically, they seem to treat an eBook like a specific edition of a print book, and if you download or buy that book again -- and it's not a new edition, as Amazon defines it -- you get a copy of the product you originally bought, unless you specifically ask for the latest version.

Oh, man, that's so annoying. So I paid twice for the same thing? That's ridiculous. And why would it come up with an 'update the book' option if it wasn't going to, you know, update the book? It only ever appears when changes have been made to the file.

I did download the html version of it and it's the right file, so I hope that's the one that's going out to people now. But I wish there was a way for people that had previously bought it to get the new copy, too. :/ How can my readers "specifically ask for the latest file"? Is the only way to go through Amazon help?

Damn Amazon. *shakes fist at sky*

Now I'm a bit confused about the "Update" option on Amazon, which I do have checked off. I've noticed regarding cover changes, my books is only sometimes changed on my Kindle App, not always. I guess I'm wondering why it's not all or none. Thank you.

Aislinn wrote: "How can my readers "specifically ask for the latest file"? Is the only way to go through Amazon help?"

As far as I know, that is correct. You can try to convince Amazon to push an update, but if you look at their guidelines, they state what they consider it worthy of pushing an update from and what they, and the latter list is pretty long. When they do push an update -- as I recall from the one time I book I bought had an update pushed -- a drift notice appears, and it explicitly states that's it for a new version. [This was 2+ years ago,]

So you can ask them to push it, but they likely might say the changes don't merit them doing that. Personally, I don't blame them for that. I don't see that as part of their job.

Nor would I want an author pushing new versions of their book on me every time they decided something needed changing. If I'm satisfied, I that prefer my version and my kindle be left alone. If I'm not satisfied, I can go the customer support (if not the author) and seek satisfaction. I see that as my prerogative, not anyone else's.

When we do upload a new version of a book [which we've done a number of times], I do connect customer support to ask for the latest version to ensure I have the production version on my Kindle. It's always been a painless process for me.

I think it a poor show that Amazon don't even let you know that there is an "update" available when you re-download the book.

Owen wrote "You can try to convince Amazon to push an update, but if you look at their guidelines, they state what they consider it worthy of pushing an update from and what they, and the latter list is pretty long..."

As many of you know, my first book was initially published as "Robots Like Red," but I unwittingly committed a copyright breach and was forced to unpublish it. Before it was blocked, I edited out the illegal copyrighted material, and updated the book. I requested that Amazon pushed the corrected edition to replace the illegal one and to my Amazement they refused!

They were quite happy to let the customers sit with an illegal book, that the subsequently blocked, rather than push a legal copy!

Owen wrote, "Nor would I want an author pushing new versions of their book on me every time they decided something needed changing. If I'm satisfied, I that prefer my version and my kindle be left alone. "

Put like this, I think I see the danger. I have edited my first book so many times. I must have published it too soon, in an "unready" state. I think if there are many authors like me, Amazon would be pushing and pushing endless updates at their customers, driving them to distraction.

Eventually, the update will be published for those who previously bought your book, but it may take a few months, and it will not happen if you update your book over and over again. Likely, this is supposed to discourage authors from making numerous small changes to their works every time a mistake is found. The best you can do is contact Amazon, but if they will not fix it, then it is just a waiting game.

Anthony wrote: "They were quite happy to let the customers sit with an illegal book, that the subsequently blocked, rather than push a legal copy!"

This raises an interesting legal-ish point. In this case, a book that party A felt infringed on their copyright is published and party A objects and demands that book no longer be published. So that book is taken down.

But said book has sold some number of copies, and party A does not demand that those copies be relinquished. Those copies are the legal property of their owners. They do not belong to Amazon (or party A).

Does Amazon therefore have the right to replace those copies with the new version? Those copies are not themselves illegal nor did the buyers commit a crime by buying them. Amazon is not a party to the creation of the [allegedly] infringing book.

I believe in this case the infringement was only alleged, not proved. No court action ensued and party A did not win a judgment in court against the author. The author acted voluntarily [under threat of legal action]. And party A was satisfied [I gather] and dropped their threats, and the matter was resolved.

Where does that leave Amazon in this case? Amazon is under no obligation to act on the allegations of party A, even though the author agreed to act in accordance with party A's demands [under threat of legal action].

If party A had asserted that the existence of copies of that book were damaging to itself, it could have gone to court, obtained an order directing those copies to be removed and/or replaced, and presented same to Amazon. But they didn't. They were [as I understand] content to leave those copies in the hands of their buyers.

So there is nothing "illegal" about those copies and if Amazon deemed the changes were not significant enough to warrant a "push" under their policies -- even though those changes satisfied party A -- that strikes me as Amazon's right.

It may seem odd on the surface, but the fact of the matter that there is nothing "illegal" about "Robots Like Red" since no legal judgement was ever handed down. Yes, it is against Amazon's policies to to publish a work the author does not have the rights to, or that violates copyright, but in that case, the latter was not proved, and "Robots Like Red" passed muster with Amazon. And, for we know, Amazon was right. Had the case gone to court, a court might have found in favor of the author [based on my understanding].

I go on at this length because it happens in cases like this, where a corporate policy seems to be applied strangely, it often hinges on things of this nature: an allegation vs a legal fact, and/or the rights of a buyer and/or author vs the claims of a 3rd party.

There is usually much in such cases that is not obvious or that we are otherwise unaware of. Grasping why things happen requires a comprehensive view of the circumstances that is often hard to come by. I think it is well to take that into account when we consider such issues; it can save us a good deal of headache.

Aislinn,

Thanks for asking about updates. I've been struggling with this also - seems strange Amazon doesn't just note that it's been updated on their 'manage content and devices' page and allow customers to update to the latest version if they'd like. With all the technology they boast, I can't see why they wouldn't make this feature available. Would clear up a lot of confusion.

Hi Aislinn,
In your Amazon account under Manage Content and Devices on the Settings tab is the option for Automatic Update to do the following:

"Opt in to receive new versions of your books when we have confirmed that improvements were made."

This is what I was trying to ask about before, but am not sure I explained it correctly. I have this option ON, and sometimes receive the updated versions, but not always. Is this what you're talking about here?

Thanks, Sue

Hi Sue,

I have that turned on, but didn't get the updated copy. That's why I deleted and rebought it instead.

And I know that Amazon used to have an update button. I don't know if I can't see it now because I turned the automatic updates on.

Either way, I'd like to be able to make sure that everyone is now getting the right copy. And ideally that those that had previously bought it now have an option to update it. (But it looks like that isn't the case :( )

Hi Aislinn,

I'm under the impression that you have to contact Amazon support to cause the latest version of your book to be pushed out to your readers.

I've read elsewhere on GR that this is the case.

Hi Aislinn,

Thank you. That's why I'm confused why some of my books get updated, but not all. A book I bought last year got updated last week. I actually prefer the cover on the previous version. If I had purchased the original version of your book, it sounds like my copy wouldn't be updated and I don't understand why not.

Yes, if I were you I'd want my book updated on everyone's device, too. However, A.S. stated above it may take a few months. Still, I have books on my device that have been updated on Amazon, but not on my device. It's a shame Amazon isn't consistent.

I completely agree, Sue. It's very frustrating and confusing!

On this count, as on a number of others, Amazon are exasperating. If someone has paid for a publication it seems only fair that they should be able to download the revised version. I've also known of readers who have been debarred from purchasing an amended copy because they've been informed that they've already purchased it, when what they have, of course, is the original text.

Hmm. If you look at it from a business perspective, it makes perfect sense for Amazon to handle updates on a case-by-case basis, imho.

Personally, I've gotten them to legit "push" a new version to customers. But they rarely do this cuz everything is lost to the reader, including bookmarks and notes. Meaning you could've highlighted the crap outta a book and suddenly have your progress disappear.

Can you imagine if they were consistently switching versions for every author who requested? People's Kindles would be "reset" all the time. It would be a complete gong show LMAO!! So, yeah, I reckon Amazon isn't about to start ticking off a whackload of paying customers anytime soon, eh?

@HE: Readers can email Amazon and request the newest version be made available to update. They're actually pretty good with that stuff ^_~

I don't mind that they don't force the readers to update the book. I think it actually makes perfect sense. But I would like them to have the option to update it if they want to, you know?

@Miss Aislinn: Yep, I do know. And...

That option totally exists but you have to make a request as the author. It's actually not automatic, even if you wait months (yes, I asked). And no, they won't do it every single time someone decides to make changes cuz again, that would get craaazy.

Here ya go:
https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A...

Yeah, I read that. Problem is, the changes definitely aren't worth them notifying the customers about it like that - I literally changed two words. But the perfectionist in me just wants people to have the option to change it. Idk why Amazon has to get in the middle of the process at all. They approved my new manuscript, so there should be an automatic update option for customers who had already bought it. Simples.

Owen wrote: "Anthony wrote: "They were quite happy to let the customers sit with an illegal book, that the subsequently blocked, rather than push a legal copy!"

This raises an interesting legal-ish point. In t..."

Thanks Owen, for a lengthy and considered response. Which I agree with.

I did commit a copyright breech. I misunderstood copyright law and quoted verbatim from Asimov. I thought it would be okay, as I gave credit to the source.

The legal advice I received was that it was a "slam dunk."

Amazon's argument was pretty much the same as yours.

BTW
I was disappointed that they offered absolutely no legal advice. None.

At first I thought that I could not publish the story, but a copyright lawyer explained it was the quote!!

Eventually, I asked Amazon if they would block "Robots Like Blue" (Robots Like Red, with the quote and all Asimov references removed.)

They said they would they would "look it over."

I had to re-title as the "cease and desist" was for "Robots Like Red" by "Anthony J. Deeney." I worried for a while that the lawyers would return with fury at my sidestep, but I now better understand copyright and am confident that they can't. I emailed them a copy and they did not reply.

My first e-book ended up being a hot mess. It was impossible to read on smaller screens.

I revised it once I found out, and slept well at night because I also thought that an update would update it in people's e-readers. I should have researched that better.

As I know now, it didn't. Not many copies were out there of the bad version, but for far too long the first few people that took a chance on me had a next to impossible to read book on their devices.

However, when I did learn this I asked them to Push it and they did so with gusto. The full on email treatment and everything.

Recently I put up a book and made 1 very tiny mistake. With someone's name. Someone that was one of the 4 people that bought it on release day. Oops! Don't publish at 2am. I asked Amazon to push it so that the person could get the update. They did not push it, but they did make it available to update. They didn't need to do this, as it was literally one word, but they did. So that was nice! (I did ask really nicely though, so that didn't hurt!)

C.B. wrote: "My first e-book ended up being a hot mess. It was impossible to read on smaller screens.

I revised it once I found out, and slept well at night because I also thought that an update would update i..."

And I can attest that as someone who has automatic updates turned on, I got the updated version even though it wasn't pushed.

In my opinion, having the update acknowledged by Amazon is a way better option than a push. Why? Because in the case of most of us, we are writing books that will likely be read once. Those who already read aren't going to go back and reread to see what was changed. And those who haven't read yet don't need to know that there was anything to change in the first place.

You have to opt out of automatic updates. Most people won't. I'd rather the silent slip-in of the updated version rather than thr emails I used to get back before the updates that were basically a neon sign saying "Hey look! Somebody goofed big time!"