The Pickwick Club discussion

Jean wrote: "We should always follow the date-then-month order, the English way, as that is the way Dickens himself would have preferred! LOL!"

Oh, now you've just gone and stated the obvious! I had not even thought of that reasoning. :)

Welcome back, Jonathan! I believe we may have just missed each other when I joined the group almost 3 years ago.

Tristram wrote: "As Linda said, I, too, think we had been having the date discussion before - but considering how many different people from different countries are involved here, it is quite a wonder we don't have..."

Yes, we do a lot, and it's always fun!

Tristram wrote: "That being said, I wouldn't know how a computer feels.."

You haven't read Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress? If you had, you would know how computers feel!

Or how about the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey" and Hal? (Amazing that at the time we thought 2001 was so far away, and now it's so far away, too, but in the other direction!)

Lynne wrote: "So my vote is--don't care. Whatever everyone likes.."

Wimp! [vbg]

Everyman - Ah, but my favourite short story of all on that theme is "Into the Comet" by Arthur C. Clarke. The triumph of human ingenuity over manufactured computers :) If you know the story, then you'll know why. And if you don't, then you can google it and get the plot in a few lines (though it will spoil it a bit).

Linda - Thank you! I'm quite good at stating the obvious :D It's all the complicated convolutions that baffle me. I was just about to call Kim in on this for a bit of down to earth sanity!

On the other hand, I'm not quite sure how "purist" about this we should be. May we watch dramatisations? (Dickens had no TV, only theatre). May we read him on ereaders? ... etc

Everyman wrote: "Lynne wrote: "So my vote is--don't care. Whatever everyone likes.."

Wimp! [vbg]"

Lynne wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Lynne wrote: "So my vote is--don't care. Whatever everyone likes.."

Wimp! [vbg]"

"

LOL!!

"In the meantime, I am going to wipe my owner's computer and permanently delete all her data."

Everyman wrote: "Lynne wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Lynne wrote: "So my vote is--don't care. Whatever everyone likes.."

Wimp! [vbg]"

"

LOL!!

"In the meantime, I am going to wipe my owner's computer and permanently ..."

All I really have to do is "push the mouse!"

Wow, my head is swimming with those dates. Lol. I'll definitely join in with the discussion, although I may be a little late as I have decided to read the whole of Bleak House before I make a start on Great Expectations. I look forward to the chat.

Jean, of course you're right that Dickens would have seen himself as English not British or European, well I would think definitely not European. That came much later, I believe. Dickens - one of many, many reasons to be proud to be English!

Hilary wrote: " Dickens - one of many, many reasons to be proud to be English! "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY4So...

Lynne wrote: "Personally, I don't have any trouble with dates no matter how they are written, so really don't care. To me, the important thing is that I found a group so widespread and all-encompassing that we h..."

True, we're not machines, but if you ever try chronological paper filing, the year month day works great even if you are not a machine. In the end, it doesn't matter a lot to me, but I was so happy to see someone suggest something I've done since I was in my 20s from that very type of filing. (I didn't make the system up, it was already in place.)

Hilary wrote: "Jean, of course you're right that Dickens would have seen himself as English not British or European, well I would think definitely not European. That came much later, I believe. Dickens - one of m..."

I agree. I am not British or English, but I think the English have many reasons to be proud. I cannot really stand to read American Literature. What we would do without the Brits, idk. You got Shakespeare, Dickens, Agatha Christie, Austen, and you even try to claim T.S. Eliot, as my Lit professor used to stay. You could have left us something. I like Twain, but if that's all you got to brag about...Let's just say, he couldn't carry Dickens pen for him!

Everyman wrote: "Tristram wrote: "That being said, I wouldn't know how a computer feels.."

You haven't read Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress? If you had, you would know how computers feel!

Or how about the..."

Of course, I forgot about the movie 2001. From what I remember, Hal was much more human than the astronauts he had to work with. I quite envy a computer its equanimity.

Jonathan wrote: "Hilary wrote: "Jean, of course you're right that Dickens would have seen himself as English not British or European, well I would think definitely not European. That came much later, I believe. Dic..."

Granted, Jonathan: English literature is an everlasting fountain of nectar, and I would like to add Sterne, Fielding and Smollett as well as the Victorians Reade and M.E. Braddon and George Eliot. Let's not forget Mrs. Gaskell, either. What about Chaucer, John Webster and John Ford? The list would be endless.

But then there is a lot to say in favour of American literature, too - apart from Mark Twain. What about your great genius Herman Melville? Hawthorne's short stories are often superbe, and there are also Ambrose Bierce, Mrs. Porter and Mr. Hemingway. Washington Irving ... you have a lot to be proud of.

When it comes to the writers of my native country, I think there is only Goethe, Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, E.T.A. Hoffmann. The rest is, to alter Shakespeare, boredom. In fact, my decision to study English was strongly influenced by Dickens and English literature.

Jonathan reported someone saying, "you even try to claim T.S. Eliot..." LOL!

I'm not getting into that sticky debate! If you want him, then using the same logic you have to give us Robert Frost :D Then there's always Henry James (though you can keep him as far as I'm concerned).

English v. American is not for me - we just have a different language, such as your "you got Shakespeare", Jonathan, where we would say "you have got Shakespeare" (if we said any such thing). What does annoy me greatly, on others' behalf, is when people assume everyone to be English when they're actually Welsh, Irish or Scottish. Irish writers are the most commonly mistaken, I think (Hilary probably is even more aware of this). Whereas you can tell Seamus Heaney by his name, people often assume the Irish writer Oscar Wilde to be English. He isn't! Even Welsh writers have this problem. Most know "Thomas" is a Welsh surname, so no problem with Dylan then, but Edward Thomas? Another hybrid.

I think this is why many - both American and English - people call us all British, and in certain contexts that is appropriate, but not as a "cheat" when you don't know! That's my opinion anyway.

Everyman wrote: "Heck, let's use computer dating! That's what I got used to teaching programming. It's YYYYMMDD, and the reason for that is that you can sort on the number as a number and it comes out right. Both E..."

I never thought of this, Everyman. I keep a spreadsheet for my read books, and dating has always been a problem. This may solve a lot of problems.

What the Dickens?! Look what we have here..."Great Expectations," for the Pickwickians (every pun intended, for this group does not "ever" disappoint!)! I can't wait to read this with all of you (Tristram, Peter, Kim, Sweet Hillary, is Vanessa around(?), Linda, Everyman, and looking forward to reading with the newer names (for me) as well. I have genuinely "missed" every single one of you, as I remember fondly: my experience reading "David Copperfield," Kim's holiday decorating extravaganzas, and yes, the never ending discussions between the tried and true regarding American/European dating systems! It's been too long...Yet, there's no time like the present to pick up another Dickens while forging stronger ties with your reading community! I hope you all have had a safe and happy Christmas with a wonderful New Year to follow, kind friends!

Long live Dickens!

Truly yours,
Ami


P.S. Has a thread been posted for the first two chapters? It's possible I've forgotten how it works in here...Do we read this week and begin discussing next week? I'll peruse through the old threads to double check.

Okay, I get the picture...Threads will open in a couple of days. See you in the threads... :)

Tristram wrote: "I would like to add Sterne, Fielding and Smollett as well as the Victorians Reade and M.E. Braddon and George Eliot. Let's not forget Mrs. Gaskell, either. What about Chaucer, John Webster and John Ford? .."

How could you leave out Trollope and Hardy? Shame on you!! [g]

Tristram wrote: "But then there is a lot to say in favour of American literature, too - apart from Mark Twain. What about your great genius Herman Melville? Hawthorne's short stories are often superbe, and there are also Ambrose Bierce, Mrs. Porter and Mr. Hemingway. ."

https://www.loa.org/books

Welcome back Ami and Jonathan. What a merry crew we have.

Welcome back Ami I missed you!

It's nice to see you join us in our "Great Expectations", Ami! It's typically at the beginning of each year that one starts out with those, and so it's good to read the novel!

Everyman wrote: "How could you leave out Trollope and Hardy?"

I just did not want to state the obvious.

What about the great Joseph Conrad? Do the English claim him as one of their writers, or do they leave him to Poland?

Everyman wrote: "Tristram wrote: "I would like to add Sterne, Fielding and Smollett as well as the Victorians Reade and M.E. Braddon and George Eliot. Let's not forget Mrs. Gaskell, either. What about Chaucer, John..."

I have never read Trollope, and I have never enjoyed Hardy. I believe he should have stuck to poetry. I think the readers of his last novel agree with me. I say this only in a Pickwickian sense of course!

Nostromo!

Good to see "old" friends Ami and Xan Shadowflutter back for the current read too!

I'll be starting this one as soon as I finish my review for The Battle Of Life ... see you all over on t'other thread :)

I have been away for a day or so and missed quite the discussion that, once again, forgot all about the fact that Canada has some incredible literary clout and writers. Just as the British includes several countries, so does North America, but Canada isn't allied to the US politically the same way as the UK is.

I am a great fan of British writers, including English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh authors, naturally, and of some American literary writers, but also of Canadian ones (but I don't care for Margaret Atwood's writing as a rule.)

I came here because I am champing at the bit to discuss Great Expectations and then to be finally able to read past the second chapter. Alas, it's time to wait patiently (or at least to act as though I am waiting patiently).

Jonathan wrote: "I have never enjoyed Hardy. I believe he should have stuck to poetry. .."

If I knew how to smack you on the cheek with a gauntlet over the Internet, I would do it.

[g]

Everyman wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "I have never enjoyed Hardy. I believe he should have stuck to poetry. .."

If I knew how to smack you on the cheek with a gauntlet over the Internet, I would do it.

[g]"

In a Pickwickian sense? I take no responsibility for my dislike of Hardy. That is his fault, not mine. I'll make you a deal. Sometime in the near future, I will finish Tess, which I put down out of sheer boredom years ago. I'll give Hardy a fair chance. But, I make no promises.

Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "Nostromo!"

;-)

Jonathan wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "I have never enjoyed Hardy. I believe he should have stuck to poetry. .."

If I knew how to smack you on the cheek with a gauntlet over the Internet, I would do it..."

I did not like Hardy too much at first, either, but two years ago, I read Far from the Madding Crowd, and I must say that I now think differently of Hardy. A bleak and pessimistic outlook on life, like Hardy's, can be very endearing.

By the way, when listing great American writers, I forgot Raymond Chandler.

Jonathan wrote: "EI'll make you a deal. Sometime in the near future, I will finish Tess, which I put down out of sheer boredom years ago. I'll give Hardy a fair chance. But, I make no promises. ."

Deal. Maybe now you will have matured enough to appreciate him.

:)

A few of us have fallen behind. I have posted the threads per our schedule. I apologize for the inconvenience and I promise to spend this week in catching up and getting this on track. This, uh, kind of fell in my lap.