The Pickwick Club discussion

Hi folks,

while I am still busy marking papers, looking and marvelling at Kim's photos - I especially enjoyed the baking session -, helping my kids to accomplish their Lego sets and booking our summer holiday, I started thinking about a reading schedule for Great Expectations. As you probably know, the novel was published in weekly installments, which puts us before the problem of deciding at what speed we want to read. Here is an overview of the installments:

http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/d...

As I see it, we have two choices:

a) If we favour a slow speed, we could follow the weekly reading installments, but that would mean that we'd spend months on the book.

b) We might double our speed by reading two weekly installments per week.

c) This just occurred to me when I wrote this message: We might also follow the same principle we adopted for Hard Times, i.e. we read the first book according to the original installment pattern, and after that we might step it up a notch by following the suggestion made under b).

What shall it be, a, b, or c?

I shrink from making a poll out of this question because in polls we generally have silent members voting with us who never participate in the discussions anyway and whose opinion, with all due respect, I would not want to influence our decision.

So, if everyone who is willing to take part in our discussions might post their preference here in this thread in the next few days, I might be able to make a reading schedule on Sunday, first day of the New Year.

That said, I should like to add that we wanted to start on January 5th.

My best wishes to all of you friends!

I vote for C. I wasn't around for Hard Times, but that suggestion makes sense. My second choice would be B probably, or some combination of A & B.

I vote for C. The other choices are just fine as well and I'll be happy to do whatever the majority says.

b. because I borrow this from the library. Plus it's easier to remember things at a faster pace.

C and B seem to me to be preferable, but I am also with Peter; I'm not drawing a line in the sand here ...

Thanks for all your work, Tristram. It is much appreciated.

I would refer a, since it's the way Dickens intended us to read the story, and I don't mind an extended read -- it puts off the time when we have to decide what to do when we've finished all the novels!

But since it looks like that isn't the preferred option, at least so far (come on, you purists, let your voices be heard!) there's a middle course if it isn't too much work for the moderators -- proposal a, except that installments are posted twice a week, say on Sundays and Thursdays, so that we read at the two-installments-per-week pace of b, but discuss sections according to the original publication. I find it most interesting to see where Dickens broke his story, when he introduced new characters and events, when he put in cliffhangers, etc. I think when we read and discuss multiple installments at a time we lose some of that interest.

But really, if we're committed to reading Dickens, shouldn't we read him in the way he intended us to??

Everyman wrote: "I would refer a, since it's the way Dickens intended us to read the story, and I don't mind an extended read -- it puts off the time when we have to decide what to do when we've finished all the no..."

Now that would work well for me, too. It's still 2 chapters a week, but we discuss them one at a time.

If we go too slow I'm going to forget where we are and have to read sections over again, which isn't too terrible, I have to do that now sometimes, but there are a lot of illustrations which take a lot of time, so I don't want to go too fast either. So, it doesn't really matter to me, but I'm leaning toward c. As long as my fellow moderator is the one making the reading schedule, any of it is fine with me. Oh, with American dating please.

I vote for option A, then C, then B.

But I will read no matter the schedule decided upon. :)

I vote A, but will undoubtedly fall behind regardless of which option is chosen.

Everyman wrote: "I would refer a, since it's the way Dickens intended us to read the story, and I don't mind an extended read -- it puts off the time when we have to decide what to do when we've finished all the no..."

E-man has convinced me! I switch my vote to A, with C as a second choice. I had not considered that it would be "genuine" to read it as Dickens intended. If his readers could remember from installment to installment, surely we can too. And we have the advantage of being able to read a bit ahead if we want to and stick with the discussion schedule. So Tristram, please switch my vote to A. Thanks!

As far as I can work it out, there is a slim lead for A, and then there would be C on its heels. My only concern about A is that maybe if we read the book too slowly, people will inevitably read ahead and eventually the whole reading schedule will lag behind.

I find Everyman's idea of having two recap days per week quite interesting: This way one could combine the experience of weekly installments with a slightly swifter pace. So unless there is any objection, we might want to try this idea out? What do you think?

I'm in!

It's all good with me.

Sounds good, Tristram!

you already know what I think.You figure out the schedule and I'll be there.

Sounds interesting!

Yes, what he said. And he. And she and she ... Go for it, Tristram, please, if that's ok with you!:p

Anything you decide is fine with me, too.

Mary Lou wrote: "Anything you decide is fine with me, too."

Why is it my wife or my son never say a sentence like that? Or when they do, they use a certain overtone.

Tristram wrote: "Mary Lou wrote: "Anything you decide is fine with me, too."

Why is it my wife or my son never say a sentence like that? Or when they do, they use a certain overtone."

They know you a lot better than we do. [g]

Tristram wrote: "Mary Lou wrote: "Anything you decide is fine with me, too."

Why is it my wife or my son never say a sentence like that? Or when they do, they use a certain overtone."

I said something very similar to that, I believe it went something like "oh just pick one", close enough?

You're right, Kim - and you made my day ;-)

My dear Fellow-Pickwickians,

I have just worked out the reading schedule for Great Expectations, and I’m considering the outcome with mixed feelings. The chapters are comparatively short, and we are going to read on this novel until well into the month of May, which seems quite a long period of time to me for such a short novel. Maybe, we should start out the way we decided and then see if we might not want to adopt a swifter pace.

As matters stand, this is our reading schedule for now. Each week has two threads, one is opened on Sunday, the other on Wednesday – moderators will change weekly. I have adopted the American style of putting months before days this time:

01/05 – 01/11: Chp. 01-02 // Chp. 03-04
01/12 – 01/18: Chp. 05 // Chp. 06-07
01/19 – 01/25: Chp. 08 // Chp. 09-10
01/26 – 02/01: Chp. 11 // Chp. 12-13
02/02 – 02/08: Chp. 14-15 // Chp. 16-17
02/09 – 02/15: Chp. 18 // Chp. 19
02/16 – 02/22: Chp. 20-21 // Chp. 22
02/23 – 03/01: Chp. 23-24 // Chp. 25-26
03/02 – 03/08: Chp. 27-28 // Chp. 29
03/09 – 03/15: Chp. 30-31 // Chp. 32-33
03/16 – 03/22: Chp. 34-35 // Chp. 36-37
03/23 – 03/29: Chp. 38 // Chp. 39
03/30 – 04/05: Chp. 40 // Chp. 41-42
04/06 – 04/12: Chp. 43-44 // Chp. 45-46
04/13 – 04/19: Chp. 47-48 // Chp. 49-50
04/20 – 04/26: Chp. 51-52 // Chp. 53
04/27 – 05/03: Chp. 54 // Chp. 55-56
05/04 – 05/10: Chp. 57 // Chp. 58-59

Should you notice any mistakes, I’d be glad if you let me know.

Looks great! I haven't checked it against the orginal publication schedule, but trust you (even if your wife doesn't always???)

And thanks for the proper date formatting!! [g]

Tristram wrote: "As far as I can work it out, there is a slim lead for A, and then there would be C on its heels. My only concern about A is that maybe if we read the book too slowly, people will inevitably read ah..."

Yes, A will fail for me, for sure. I have read long Dickens with another group, but it was more like 3 chapters per week and even then I was holding back to not read ahead.

But the schedule you have posted looks good. slow, but no slower than what I mentioned.

I will be a bit behind temporarily as the book is waiting for me at the library and it won't open until Jan 3.

Karin wrote: "I will be a bit behind temporarily as the book is waiting for me at the library and it won't open until Jan 3."

We'll wait for you!

Just printed off the schedule, though I confess to having started the book already. I know there will be times when it will go faster and times it will go slower, but the Pickwickians are such a laid-back group, one of the strengths is that we can roll with most anything (even when one of us rolls off the carriage). Happy New Year Everyone, and I must say that this group will be one of the blessings of the New Year.

Argh! How come I never found this thread before! I would have voted the purist way - ie in tandem with how Dickens initially released the episodes, but am happy to go with the majority decision.

My problem is with the US calendar, as always. Will check the list again.

OK - Have I got this right? We start on 5th January, and read chapters 1 and 2. Then midweek the moderator hosting the thread changes, and we read chapters 3 and 4, and comment on a new thread.

So each week we read variously 2, 3 or 4 chapters, according to the schedule, but we have double the number of threads as previously.

That's right Jean except each moderator will change every week not every thread. I think that's right anyway, it's a little too much like math for me, but I'm getting it. :-)

Oh yeah, right. Thanks Kim :)

Jean wrote: "Argh! How come I never found this thread before! I would have voted the purist way - ie in tandem with how Dickens initially released the episodes, but am happy to go with the majority decision.

M..."

Speaking of calendars, I have to share this with you all. I LOVE calendars and have them all over the house. I especially like ones that have old posters as pictures, or certain animals (this year it is sloths). I keep my calendars and look up to see the next year that calendar will be valid, put a sticker in the corner and file them away. I got my 2016 calendars ready to file this morning----the next year I could dig them out to reuse them is 2044!! If I live that long, I will be 93. Which if I live until I finish all my books, is entirely possible! (The reason for the long wait this time? Leap Year.)

LOL Lynne - my brother used to do that. He always made sure the day of the week was correct, and had a few favourites (one of Monet's paintings, for instance) that used to come out every so often. It was quite exciting seeing which would be right for the year!

But sloths - er why? Is it a reminder to always take things steadily?

Tristram wrote: "I have just worked out the reading schedule for Great Expectations, and I’m considering the outcome with mixed feelings.

Thanks Tristram! I will be printing out a copy to use as my bookmark today. :)

(And for our next book, please stick with the European dating, and then I would be happy to post an American dating format after that. It seems we have a mix of readers using one or the other format!)

Everyman wrote: "I would refer a, since it's the way Dickens intended us to read the story, and I don't mind an extended read -- it puts off the time when we have to decide what to do when we've finished all the no..." I like the purist concept. I've already read this though, so I don't think I will be reading it as actually intended.

So, are we going to have separate threads for each section? When is the first to be posted?

Heck, let's use computer dating! That's what I got used to teaching programming. It's YYYYMMDD, and the reason for that is that you can sort on the number as a number and it comes out right. Both European and American dating with the year at the end can't be sorted as numbers. American is a bit better -- 0217 is before 0316 just as February 17 is before March 16. But with European it's a mess: use 1702 vs 1603 and March 16th comes before February 17th. Totally illogical.

Computer dating would have one other very tremendous benefit for this group -- it would leave self-admitted mathematically incompetent Kim totally befuddled, confused, and lost. What more could one ask for?

Everyman wrote: "Heck, let's use computer dating! That's what I got used to teaching programming. It's YYYYMMDD, and the reason for that is that you can sort on the number as a number and it comes out right. Both E..."

Your post was so filled with numbers, or words that remind me of numbers I didn't even bother thinking about it. But if I would have my feelings would have been oh so seriously hurt by the befuddled and confused comments. But I didn't read it so it didn't hurt my feelings. It takes a lot more than that would anyway.

Everyman wrote: "Heck, let's use computer dating! That's what I got used to teaching programming. It's YYYYMMDD, and the reason for that is that you can sort on the number as a number and it comes out right....

I'm having a deja vu moment here as to this conversation already have taken place somewhere, sometime... :D

Anyway, fine by me if we have 3 formats! I'm only offering to do one of them, though. ;)

Jonathan wrote: "So, are we going to have separate threads for each section? When is the first to be posted?"

Hello stranger, where have you been? An around the world trip perhaps? :-)

About the GE read, we begin the read on Thursday and each week has two threads, one is opened on Sunday, the other on Wednesday – moderators will change weekly. So the first thread will open on Sunday, January 8- by Tristram I think -and it will be Chapters 01-02. Then Wednesday, January 11 the second thread will be opened also by Tristram and will be Chapters 03-04. Then the next week continues in the same way except we switch moderators. So yes, there will be separate threads for each section. If I'm wrong in any of this hopefully Tristram will be by soon and let us know.

Oh, welcome back. It's good to see you again.

Everyman wrote: "Heck, let's use computer dating! That's what I got used to teaching programming. It's YYYYMMDD, and the reason for that is that you can sort on the number as a number and it comes out right. Both E..."

Actually, I've used the 2017/01/03 method of dating since I was in my 20s and had a job where they used what they called the metric way of dates to avoid the confusion wrought when being Canadian but being frequently exposed to the US method (Canada's is officially day/month/year, US month/day/year). My kids roll their eyes, but it's how I date every single form I have to sign for their various trips and activities, as well. And it was not on a computer, although naturally that works best for computers.

So, I agree.

Jonathan?!!! Wow long time no see! Good to see you again though :) Hope your life over the last two to three years has been eventful in a good way.

Anyway I thought I'd understood the way this is structured, and was kicking myself (with all the banter) for not stating the obvious about which is the correct way to record it. It's obvious really. We should always follow the date-then-month order, the English way, as that is the way Dickens himself would have preferred! LOL!

Something to bear in mind for next time perhaps? :)

Yes, you are very welcome back, Jonathan! I hope that all is well with you.

And Jean, of course the British (Irish) way is right! Haha! ;)

Indeed Hilary! Those in the States always call English people British, or European, though Dickens probably thought of himself as English. But if it gets more support, I'll definitely happy to adapt the terminology to any of these three larger groups! ;)

As Linda said, I, too, think we had been having the date discussion before - but considering how many different people from different countries are involved here, it is quite a wonder we don't have this discussion more often.

Like Everyman, I think the most logical way of writing down dates is YYYYMMDD and I always use that for my computer files, e.g. when saving my reviews in a folder dedicated to their chronological order. Nevertheless, I'd never use that kind of date in everyday life because I'd feel like a computer myself. That being said, I wouldn't know how a computer feels.

I tried the American notation this time but I'd happily stick to the European system next time and rely on somebody else doing the translation - because I always had to double-check whether I did not mix up days and months. There' one thing to be said for the American notation, though, namely that it looks more systematic. As a German I should find it easier to adapt to this system of getting the days and months in a reverted order because in Germany, you don't say twenty-one or thirty-three, but one-and-twenty, or three-and-thirty. Someone who can handle this and still get the cyphers in the correct order can also master the American way of writing dates.

I was thinking of developing a kind of compromise along the lines of putting the month before the day whenever the month has thirty days, and doing it the other way around for months that have thirty-one days. February will follow the thirty-day-month pattern except for leap years, when it will be treated as a month of 31 days.

But maybe somebody has even got a more complicated compromise - including even and odd weeks?

Personally, I don't have any trouble with dates no matter how they are written, so really don't care. To me, the important thing is that I found a group so widespread and all-encompassing that we have the discussion at all! I am a geek, so geeky solutions appeal to me; but people are not machines, so I suppose this discussion should have a human solution. So my vote is--don't care. Whatever everyone likes.