The Pickwick Club discussion

Hello all,

In this installment we begin with chapter 6 find Joe is carrying Pip home because it is so long a distance. I got wondering how old Pip must be to be small enough for Joe to carry him all the way home. Pip feels guilty about not telling Joe what really happened with the pie and Joe's file, but he is afraid of losing Joe's love so he keeps quiet. Arriving home Joe tells the ones who have remained behind what had happened and they begin to all suggest different ways the convict may have gotten into the house. At this point Pip's sister "helps" him up to bed:

"This was all I heard that night before my sister clutched me, as a slumberous offence to the company’s eyesight, and assisted me up to bed with such a strong hand that I seemed to have fifty boots on, and to be dangling them all against the edges of the stairs."


Chapter 7 begins with my favorite quote of this chapter:

"At the time when I stood in the churchyard reading the family tombstones, I had just enough learning to be able to spell them out. My construction even of their simple meaning was not very correct, for I read “wife of the Above” as a complimentary reference to my father’s exaltation to a better world; and if any one of my deceased relations had been referred to as “Below,” I have no doubt I should have formed the worst opinions of that member of the family. Neither were my notions of the theological positions to which my Catechism bound me, at all accurate; for, I have a lively remembrance that I supposed my declaration that I was to “walk in the same all the days of my life,” laid me under an obligation always to go through the village from our house in one particular direction, and never to vary it by turning down by the wheelwright’s or up by the mill."

It is followed shortly with another paragraph I love:

" There was a fiction that Mr. Wopsle “examined” the scholars once a quarter. What he did on those occasions was to turn up his cuffs, stick up his hair, and give us Mark Antony’s oration over the body of Caesar. This was always followed by Collins’s Ode on the Passions, wherein I particularly venerated Mr. Wopsle as Revenge throwing his blood-stained sword in thunder down, and taking the War-denouncing trumpet with a withering look. It was not with me then, as it was in later life, when I fell into the society of the Passions, and compared them with Collins and Wopsle, rather to the disadvantage of both gentlemen."

One day, Joe and Pip sit talking; Joe admires a letter Pip has written to him. Joe thinks it is quite wonderful and delights in pointing out the Js and Os in it. There is an awful part where Joe tells Pip why he had never gone to school. It seems that his father had "hammered away" and both Joe and his mother:

“‘Consequence, my mother and me we ran away from my father several times; and then my mother she’d go out to work, and she’d say, “Joe,” she’d say, “now, please God, you shall have some schooling, child,” and she’d put me to school. But my father were that good in his hart that he couldn’t abear to be without us. So, he’d come with a most tremenjous crowd and make such a row at the doors of the houses where we was, that they used to be obligated to have no more to do with us and to give us up to him. And then he took us home and hammered us. Which, you see, Pip,” said Joe, pausing in his meditative raking of the fire, and looking at me, “were a drawback on my learning.”

It makes me want to hammer away at the father. The conversation then turns to why in the world Joe - or anyone else on earth - would marry Pip's sister. Joe tells Pip:

“And last of all, Pip,—and this I want to say very serious to you, old chap,—I see so much in my poor mother, of a woman drudging and slaving and breaking her honest hart and never getting no peace in her mortal days, that I’m dead afeerd of going wrong in the way of not doing what’s right by a woman, and I’d fur rather of the two go wrong the t’other way, and be a little ill-conwenienced myself. I wish it was only me that got put out, Pip; I wish there warn’t no Tickler for you, old chap; I wish I could take it all on myself; but this is the up-and-down-and-straight on it, Pip, and I hope you’ll overlook shortcomings.”

Soon Mrs. Joe and Mr. Pumblechook arrive and tell Joe and Pip that Miss Havisham, "an immensely rich and grim lady who lived in a large and dismal house barricaded against robbers", wants Pip to come to her house and play. Mrs. Joe says that Pip must go because this could make him rich. He leaves that night with Mr. Pumblechook to be taken to Miss Havishham to play the next day. I don't know which seems creepier to me, having to spend a night with Mr. Pumblechook or to go play at the home of Miss Havishham. I'm just glad I'm not Pip.

Mi Deer JO i ope U R KR Wite
Well i ope i shal son b habel 4
2 teedge U JO an then we shorl
B so Glodd an wen i M Prengtd
2 U JO Wot Larx An Bleve me inf
XN PIP

Well, we've come full circle. I get texts like this.

Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "Mi Deer JO i ope U R KR Wite
Well i ope i shal son b habel 4
2 teedge U JO an then we shorl
B so Glodd an wen i M Prengtd
2 U JO Wot Larx An Bleve me inf
XN PIP

Well, we've come full circle. I ge..."

Xan

Perfect!

I love it!!! :-) I'm always answering texts from my daughter with the words - speak English. :-)

Chapter VI was a nice snappy one but still gave its readers much to enjoy and contemplate.

In terms of the narrative voice, Pip's comment "In a word, I was too cowardly to do what I knew to be right, as I had been too cowardly to avoid doing what I knew to be wrong" was interesting. We know this is a novel of a person looking back upon his life and recounting his life journey. In these lines it seems that the adult voice of reflection and experience is directly commenting on his earlier life and the choices that were made. This narrative voice of reflective experience is interesting and informative and will be interesting to follow as the novel traces Pip's growth and maturity.

A few more bumps, thumps and lumps from Mrs Joe. In the context of the novel these actions ( for me, at least) work as humour and quirky character development. Does anyone find Mrs Joe's actions offensive?

In Chapter VII, as Kim has highlighted, we get Joe's reasons as to why he married Pip's sister. Bizarre and humorous. How far out on a limb would it be to see within his words some tattered wisdom about keeping a stiff upper lip in the face of difficulties? We don't yet know what Pip will face in the world, but Joe's folk wisdom seems to be, as Monty Python taught us, to always look on the bright side. Hmmm.

Early in this chapter we learn that Pip wishes he was a scholar and then it appears that his wish will be, to some extent, granted by a Miss Havisham, who wants Pip to go to her home and play. Miss Havisham is described as "an immensely rich and grim lady who [lives] in a large and dismal house and [lives] a life of seclusion."

Well, sounds a bit like a fairy tale lady. A big grim house. Interesting how Dickens has set up a comparison in physical structures between the forge, which has been portrayed as a place of warmth, people, food and community to a lady who lives in seclusion.

Joe is the good guy who usually gets taken advantage of but doesn't care because he's comfortable in his own skin. There is a certain kind of wisdom that ensconces itself in such a contentedness. He's the saint character. Pip seems to be in a constant state of worry. That's a contrast between the two. If Joe had nothing more to say about his father than what he had said, how could he speak ill of his wife? He's the gentle giant, the blacksmith with big arms, bigger chest, and even bigger heart.

I listened to chapter 7 rather than read it, and Joe's history brought me to tears (which can be embarrassing at the stop lights when one is listening in the car). Joe is such a simple and lovely man. But like many who are uneducated, I don't think that makes him stupid. He's been handed a lousy life, but chooses happiness.

I doubt I'll be alone when I say I love this passage:

"Tho' I'm oncommon fond of reading, too."

"Are you, Joe?"

"On-common. Give me," said Joe, "a good book, or a good newspaper, and sit me down afore a good fire, and I ask no better. Lord!" he continued, after rubbing his knees a little, "when you do come to a J and a O, and says you, "Here, at last, is a J-O, Joe," how interesting reading is!"

Mary Lou wrote: "I listened to chapter 7 rather than read it, and Joe's history brought me to tears (which can be embarrassing at the stop lights when one is listening in the car). Joe is such a simple and lovely m..."

Mary Lou

The joy of discovery when we read. Joe has much to teach us. Thanks for pointing out this quotation.

Kim wrote: "I got wondering how old Pip must be to be small enough for Joe to carry him all the way home. "

A man of average strength, and a blacksmith should be at least that, could carry a fairly heavy child on his back for quite some distance. As a young man I used to portage a 90 pound canoe for a mile over rough terrain; not fun, but doable.

I used to carry my kids on my back when they got tired even when they were 10 or 12 years old. And I assume, knowing his sister, that Pip wasn't overfed, no matter how much gravy Joe ladled onto his plate!

Backpackers rule of thumb used to be that you should carry no more than 1/3 your body weight. That's for an all day carry; for the short trip on the marsh he could carry considerably more.

So I don't think Joe carrying Pip home tells us that much about his age.

Peter wrote: ""In a word, I was too cowardly to do what I knew to be right, as I had been too cowardly to avoid doing what I knew to be wrong" was interesting."

Yes it was, but I liked almost more the following "I imitated none of its many inhabitants who act in this manner. Quite an untaught genius, I made the discovery of the line of action for myself."

Ah, he has indeed uncovered a reality of so many adults.

Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "Joe is the good guy who usually gets taken advantage of but doesn't care because he's comfortable in his own skin. There is a certain kind of wisdom that ensconces itself in such a contentedness. H..."

But if he doesn't feel he is being taken advantage of, is he really?

I think of my wife, who is willing to play family games, but really and truly doesn't mind losing. Which makes it much less fun to win, because what's the point in winning if it doesn't matter to the loser? Not that I want losers to be sore losers, but I want them to at least regret to some extent losing. If they really don't care, where's the enjoyment?

I see Joe in much the same way. I can imagine it's sometimes frustrating for Mrs. Joe if she has a legitimate reason to get mad at him for something he did or didn't do, and it's simply water off his back, he doesn't care, he doesn't get mad back, he just goes happily on.

Peter wrote: "Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "Mi Deer JO i ope U R KR Wite
Well i ope i shal son b habel 4
2 teedge U JO an then we shorl
B so Glodd an wen i M Prengtd
2 U JO Wot Larx An Bleve me inf
XN PIP

Well, we..."

I have even got an extra loop in my circle because I've got colleagues who'd write texts like this ;-)

Everyman wrote: "So I don't think Joe carrying Pip home tells us that much about his age."

It's necessity that makes people do such things: I once had to carry my son two miles on a hot summer's day, plus his little bike which had a flat tyre.

Everyman wrote: "Not that I want losers to be sore losers, but I want them to at least regret to some extent losing. If they really don't care, where's the enjoyment?"

Hmm, I'm so keen on winning at games that I don't really care if the loser minds or not. When playing with our children, my wife, who does not care whether she loses or wins, sometimes lets them win and wants me to do the same. I tried but I can't. Two or three minutes into the game, and ambition has me in its clutches. I always tell my wife, "Where's the point in playing a game unless you take it seriously?"

My days of heavy lifting are over, thank goodness. But I can remember lifting some impressive loads. I used to like to hike into the backcountry and hauled all my gear and thought nothing of it. Now, I would have a heart attack!

Tristram wrote: When playing with our children, my wife, who does not care whether she loses or wins, sometimes lets them win and wants me to do the same. I tried but I can't."

Oh, I understand. My grandsons are really into chess, and I work hard to draw most games, but I just can't bring myself to lose. After all, I was the top chess play on our high school chess team and placed third one year in the state championship, so I have a lot of pride to maintain!

Ah, Everyman, when it comes to chess I could not possibly bring myself to lose. It is more than just a game, it is a duel of two minds, it's like music in that with a relatively small set of rules you can achieve an infinity of effects, it's a timeless puzzle ... how could anyone play badly at that just to let his opponent win? I also used to play on our school team for years and each game of chess is a question of honour to me.

I've been trying to figure out where Joe's Smithy is located. I don't know why but this bothers me. It seems to be located outside of town near or on the marshes. Access to water would be important, but so would being close to or in town. I've been trying to find locations of the smith, and the best I came up with are references to neighborhood and village smithies (and I don't mean the poem), which indicates they were in town.

I did however learn that the blacksmith is not a wheelwright, and a blacksmith who specializes in horseshoes is called a farrier. There is also someone called a whitesmith (plumbing and tinsmithing).

http://www.rh7.org/factshts/blcksmth.pdf

Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "I've been trying to figure out where Joe's Smithy is located. I don't know why but this bothers me. It seems to be located outside of town near or on the marshes. Access to water would be important..."

Fun facts! Thank you for sharing! Blacksmithing is fascinating--the idea of turning something so seemingly intractable (iron or metal) into something pliable, and often beautiful. And I have to ask, how is your name pronounced? Shadowflutter I can handle. How about Xan?

Tristram wrote: "Ah, Everyman, when it comes to chess I could not possibly bring myself to lose. It is more than just a game, it is a duel of two minds, it's like music in that with a relatively small set of rules ..."

As much as I love games and logic, I have never gotten into chess, perhaps because I never had anyone remotely interested in playing with me. But I have never, that I can remember, thrown a game. I have cheated----my dad would, on vacations Up North, play cards with me and he was ultra competitive. My great aunt showed me many great ways to get around the old man and I took great glee in beating him, even by cheating. You can be competitive and still be a good sport---I have tried never to gloat. OK, hardly ever.

I just realized I forgot the illustrations for this thread. Here they are:




Chapter 7

John McLenan

1860

Harper's Weekly 4 (8 December 1860)

Commentary:

"In this chapter headnote vignette, Mrs. Joe assists Pip in washing prior to his making his social debut at Satis House, where (through the agency of Uncle Pumblechook) Miss Havisham has invited him to "play" (though tellingly he does not understand what the word means). The specific moment realized occurs towards the end of the seventh chapter:

"With that, she pounced on me, like an eagle on a lamb, and my face was squeezed into wooden bowls in sinks, and my head was put under taps of water-butts, and I was soaped, and kneaded, and toweled, and thumped, and harrowed, and rasped, until I really was quite beside myself. (I may here remark that I suppose myself to be better acquainted than any living authority, with the ridged effect of a wedding-ring, passing unsympathetically over the human countenance.)"

Dillard, particularly with respect to this illustration, terms McLenan "an American Phiz" who transforms the first-person narrative of the text to an objective or dramatic rendering that communicates directly Pip's feeling and experience by rough, almost hasty lines and deep, irregular cross-hatching."

At such times as your sister is on the ram-page, Pip

John McLenan

Chapter 7

Text Illustrated:

“Well, you see, Pip, and here we are! That’s about where it lights; here we are! Now, when you take me in hand in my learning, Pip (and I tell you beforehand I am awful dull, most awful dull), Mrs. Joe mustn’t see too much of what we’re up to. It must be done, as I may say, on the sly. And why on the sly? I’ll tell you why, Pip.”

He had taken up the poker again; without which, I doubt if he could have proceeded in his demonstration.

“Your sister is given to government.”

“Given to government, Joe?” I was startled, for I had some shadowy idea (and I am afraid I must add, hope) that Joe had divorced her in a favor of the Lords of the Admiralty, or Treasury.

“Given to government,” said Joe. “Which I meantersay the government of you and myself.”

“Oh!”

“And she an’t over partial to having scholars on the premises,” Joe continued, “and in partickler would not be over partial to my being a scholar, for fear as I might rise. Like a sort of rebel, don’t you see?”

I was going to retort with an inquiry, and had got as far as “Why—” when Joe stopped me.

“Stay a bit. I know what you’re a going to say, Pip; stay a bit! I don’t deny that your sister comes the Mo-gul over us, now and again. I don’t deny that she do throw us back-falls, and that she do drop down upon us heavy. At such times as when your sister is on the Ram-page, Pip,” Joe sank his voice to a whisper and glanced at the door, “candor compels fur to admit that she is a Buster.”

Joe pronounced this word, as if it began with at least twelve capital Bs.

“Why don’t I rise? That were your observation when I broke it off, Pip?”

“Yes, Joe.”

“Well,” said Joe, passing the poker into his left hand, that he might feel his whisker; and I had no hope of him whenever he took to that placid occupation; “your sister’s a master-mind. A master-mind.”

“What’s that?” I asked, in some hope of bringing him to a stand. But Joe was readier with his definition than I had expected, and completely stopped me by arguing circularly, and answering with a fixed look, “Her.”

"Why, here's a J," said Joe, "and a O equal to anythink!"

F. A. Fraser

1877

Chapter 7

Text Illustrated:

There was no indispensable necessity for my communicating with Joe by letter, inasmuch as he sat beside me and we were alone. But I delivered this written communication (slate and all) with my own hand, and Joe received it as a miracle of erudition.

“I say, Pip, old chap!” cried Joe, opening his blue eyes wide, “what a scholar you are! An’t you?”

“I should like to be,” said I, glancing at the slate as he held it; with a misgiving that the writing was rather hilly.

“Why, here’s a J,” said Joe, “and a O equal to anythink! Here’s a J and a O, Pip, and a J-O, Joe.”

Joe Gargery and Pip

Chapter 7

Felix O. C. Darley

1888

Dickens's Great Expectations, as realized in No. 6 of Character Sketches from Dickens (1888)

Text Illustrated:

"I say, Pip, old chap!" cried Joe, opening his blue eyes wide, "what a scholar you are! An't you?"

"I should like to be," said I, glancing at the slate as he held it: with a misgiving that the writing was rather hilly.

"Why, here's a J," said Joe, "and a O equal to anythink! Here's a J and a O, Pip, and a J-O, Joe."

I had never heard Joe read aloud to any greater extent than this monosyllable, and I had observed at church last Sunday when I accidentally held our Prayer-Book upside down, that it seemed to suit his convenience quite as well as if it had been all right. Wishing to embrace the present occasion of finding out whether in teaching Joe, I should have to begin quite at the beginning, I said, "Ah! But read the rest, Jo."

"The rest, eh, Pip?" said Joe, looking at it with a slowly searching eye, "One, two, three. Why, here's three Js, and three Os, and three J-O, Joes in it, Pip!"

I leaned over Joe, and, with the aid of my forefinger, read him the whole letter.

"Astonishing!" said Joe, when I had finished. "You are a scholar."

"How do you spell Gargery, Joe?" I asked him, with a modest patronage.

"I don't spell it at all," said Joe.

"But supposing you did?"

"It can't be supposed," said Joe. "Tho' I'm oncommon fond of reading, too."

"Are you, Joe?"

"On-common. Give me," said Joe, "a good book, or a good newspaper, and sit me down afore a good fire, and I ask no better. Lord!" he continued, after rubbing his knees a little, "when you do come to a J and a O, and says you, "Here, at last, is a J-O, Joe," how interesting reading is!"

The Felix Darley illustration seems much more "modern" in that the image seems fuller and complete as opposed to the linear evolution and presentation of the others - both in Kim's post and those of Cruikshank and Browne.

I like it very much although it will take a great deal to concede that anyone is better than Hablot K. Browne.

Tristram wrote: "Ah, Everyman, when it comes to chess I could not possibly bring myself to lose. It is more than just a game, it is a duel of two minds, it's like music in that with a relatively small set of rules ..."

Remind me, if we ever meet, not to challenge you to a game, or accept a challenge from you. One of us would be miserable, and that's no basis for a friendship!

Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "I've been trying to figure out where Joe's Smithy is located. I don't know why but this bothers me. It seems to be located outside of town near or on the marshes. Access to water would be important..."

The map I referred to in another thread showed where it probably was.

Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "
I did however learn that the blacksmith is not a wheelwright,"

This is true, though I think a blacksmith may have been called in to make the iron tire.

This is a clip from the show on the Victorian farm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBM0R...

Lynne wrote: "Blacksmithing is fascinating--the idea of turning something so seemingly intractable (iron or metal) into something pliable, and often beautiful. .."

It is indeed. There is a blacksmith on the island who has a small portable forge and demonstrates 18th century blacksmithing. The National Park Service runs a park on San Juan Island which maintains the American and English camps which were built on the island when there was almost war between the English and Americans in 1859 over the ownership of the disputed San Juan Islands.

The relevant point being that every year English Camp holds a weekend long encampment where re-enactors come in period uniforms and costumes with period tents and equipment and show the community and our tourists and visitors (of whom there are numerous in the summer months) what life in the camp would have been like in the mid-19th century.

One of the re-enactors is a blacksmith who brings along a portable forge and demonstrates blacksmithing techniques and practices from that time, making small articles from raw iron and showing how keys, locks, trinkets, handcuffs, chains, and the like were made by blacksmiths of the time. I love going and watching and talking with him, and it's fascinating to watch the solid iron bars and rods being turned into useful and even beautiful items.

The National Park website:
https://www.nps.gov/sajh/index.htm

Website for the 2016 Encampment, with a few photos, but regrettably not one showing the blacksmith:
https://www.visitsanjuans.com/events/...

Here's the original blacksmith shop, or at least the ruins of it
http://digitalcollections.lib.washing...

Everyman wrote: "The map I referred to in another thread showed where it probably was. ..."

Thanks.

Lynne wrote: "And I have to ask, how is your name pronounced? Shadowflutter I can handle. How about Xan?..."

LIke the 'X' is a 'Z' -- Xylophone -- Zanne.

Everyman wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Ah, Everyman, when it comes to chess I could not possibly bring myself to lose. It is more than just a game, it is a duel of two minds, it's like music in that with a relatively sm..."

Remind me to do the same ;-)

Everyman wrote: "I love going and watching and talking with him, and it's fascinating to watch the solid iron bars and rods being turned into useful and even beautiful items. "

I share this fascination for a smith's work, and I also like watching smiths at their trade. Okay, I do like watching other people work, anyway, but with a smith, it's still an even more enjoyable matter. Near our place there is an open-air museum, which consists of old farmhouses from different areas and other other buildings. Those buildings were dismantled in their original places and re-built on the museum site, and even if we know all the buildings by heart now, my wife, our children and I go there at least twice every year because it's a vast area where you can go for walks and have a picknick as well. There is also a smithy, and at regular times there is a smith working, and you can help him if you want, e.g. by working the bellows, and if he is in a good mood he also lets you hammer away on a nail-to-be or some such thing like that. Somehow, my son and I can sit for an hour near the fire and listen to him talk about his craft.

Peter wrote: "The Felix Darley illustration seems much more "modern" in that the image seems fuller and complete as opposed to the linear evolution and presentation of the others - both in Kim's post and those o..."

I like Darbey's illustration best because Pip and Joe look quite comfortable with each other, in fact like two kids. McLenan's Pip gives a very wolfish and sinister look, and his Joe looks like a hen-pecked husband, although, as we have learned, he does not actually feel like one.

It's a pity that Phiz did not make any illustrations for Dickens anymore.

Kim wrote: "I just realized I forgot the illustrations for this thread. Here they are:




Chapter 7

John McLenan

1860

Harper's Weekly 4 (8 December 1860)

Commentary:

"In this chapter headnote vignette, M..."

Here, I'm asking myself again why they always have to represent Mrs. Joe as an old hag.

Lynne wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Ah, Everyman, when it comes to chess I could not possibly bring myself to lose. It is more than just a game, it is a duel of two minds, it's like music in that with a relatively sm..."

I don't usually cheat at games because I would not be able to enjoy my victory if I know that it was based on cheating. There is one exception, though: When I suspect one of my opponents of cheating, I take to paying him or her in kind, just to balance things ...

Everyman wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Ah, Everyman, when it comes to chess I could not possibly bring myself to lose. It is more than just a game, it is a duel of two minds, it's like music in that with a relatively sm..."

Should we ever meet, you and/or Peter can teach me how to play and then beat my socks off!

Everyman wrote: "Lynne wrote: "Blacksmithing is fascinating--the idea of turning something so seemingly intractable (iron or metal) into something pliable, and often beautiful. .."

It is indeed. There is a blacksm..."

You always have the most interesting links to follow........

I think Chapter 7 is my favorite so far. Although it was disheartening to know of Joe's upbringing and how he came to be married to Mrs. Joe (out of loneliness and not for love), it showed us what a kind person Joe is and what is in his heart. He truly believes there is good in every person, even his father who beat him. I'm sure this quality eases his way in life through difficult situations and dealing with difficult people. And it's interesting to know that he sees the hardships of Mrs. Joe and compares them to his poor mother - always working and no rest - and that this is the reason he simply tries to stay out of her way and let her "rule the roost".

There were a lot of great lines in this chapters. Kim mentioned the section on the gravestones - about "above" and "below".

I also liked these:

Mr. Wopsle's great-aunt kept an evening school in the village; that is to say, she was a ridiculous old woman of limited means and unlimited infirmity who used to go to sleep from six to seven every evening in the society of youth who paid twopence per week each for the improving opportunity of seeing her do it.

I struggled through the alphabet as if it had been a bramble-bush, getting considerably worried and scratched by every letter.

Oh, and when Mrs. Joe realizes how dirty Pip is and she "pounced on me, like an eagle on a lamb".

And onto chapter eight. I have heard the name Miss Havisham mentioned numerous times in this group and now I finally get to (have to?) meet her....

Xan Shadowflutter wrote:
"Mi Deer JO i ope U R KR Wite
...
...

Well, we've come full circle. I get texts like this."

That was hilarious!! :D

Mary Lou wrote: "Joe is such a simple and lovely man. But like many who are uneducated, I don't think that makes him stupid. He's been handed a lousy life, but chooses happiness."

Perfectly said, Mary Lou.

Kim wrote: "Joe Gargery and Pip

Felix O. C. Darley"

Oh, I like this illustration. With Joe and Pip's heads together, it really shows the love they have for each other. And Joe looks like a kind man here.

Tristram wrote: "Everyman wrote: "I love going and watching and talking with him, and it's fascinating to watch the solid iron bars and rods being turned into useful and even beautiful items. "

I share this fascin..."

And glassblowers?

Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "And glassblowers?"

There are no glassblowers in the museum I was referring to, but in one of our holidays in the Harz - a range of mountains in Germany -, we went to a glassblower's factory where we were actually given the chance to blow our own glass decoration. It's probably not a tenth as strenuous as a smith's job, but glass surely has a will of its own.

Linda wrote: "He truly believes there is good in every person, even his father who beat him. I'm sure this quality eases his way in life through difficult situations and dealing with difficult people."

Very wise words, Linda. I think they are right, because I'm the other sort of person normally, tending towards a rather pessimistic view of the world and its people, which is not always the easiest way to go through life. At least whenever I'm disappointed, I have the gratification of being able to say that I saw it coming.

Tristram wrote: "Linda wrote: "He truly believes there is good in every person, even his father who beat him. I'm sure this quality eases his way in life through difficult situations and dealing with difficult peop..."

There is a reason they say "Ignorance is bliss." Most of my unthinking, unknowing, uncaring friends are certainly ostensibly happier, but when crunch time comes, they run to the realists for comfort. I have been pessimistic (about the environment and politics especially) since the 1970's and am getting tired of being proved right!!

Ignorance may be bliss, but on the whole I prefer knowledge because it helps you adapt your actions better to the required situation. ;-)

Tired of being proved right? Hmmm, maybe I'm a bit too vain to get tired of such a thing ;-)

Tristram wrote: "I'm the other sort of person normally, tending towards a rather pessimistic view of the world and its people, which is not always the easiest way to go through life."

I lean towards a pessimistic view too, Tristram, and it does get exhausting and depressing! Then I have to tell myself to stop reading the news and thinking about everything for awhile and retreat into the my safe and happy bubble of my family and stack of books.

Linda wrote: "Then I have to tell myself to stop reading the news and thinking about everything for awhile and retreat into the my safe and happy bubble of my family and stack of books..."

That's it, Linda. I'm a skeptic quickly transforming into cynic what with all the fake news, alternate facts (I like that name), confidence bias, trigger words, safe spaces, and in- and out-groups buzzing my head. Give me a good Victorian novel with a few ingenious plot twists . . . or even an unreliable narrator or two.