Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

The Tunguska event was a large explosion that occurred near the Stony Tunguska River, in Yeniseysk Governorate, Russia, on the morning of 30 June 1908.

Over a century later, nobody knows what caused it.

Tunguska on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungusk...

This 3 minute video explains the mystery and various theories as to what might've caused it:

What Crashed During The Tunguska Event? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhAIF...

Video summary from YouTube:

he Tunguska River, Russia. at 7 14 in the morning on June the 30th 1908, an mysterious, unexplained and deadly event occurred.
during which, there was an enormous explosion. It has been estimated that the explosion was equal to more than 2,000 Hiroshima atom bombs, and for over a hundred years, no one has been able to figure out what caused it.
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At around breakfast time mr Semenov was sitting outside his house at Vanavara Trading Post, about 40 miles south of the edge of the explosion, he recalls the event, suddenly seeing directly to the north, over Onkoul's Tunguska Road, the sky split in two. fire appeared high and wide over the forest. the split in the sky grew larger, and the entire northern side was covered with fire. At that moment, I became so hot that I couldn't bear it, as if my shirt was on fire. from the northern side, where the fire was, came strong heat, I wanted to tear off my shirt and throw it down, but then the sky shut closed, and a strong boom sounded, I was thrown a few metres. I lost my senses for a moment, then my wife ran out and led me to the house. After that such noise came, as if rocks were falling or cannons were firing, the earth shook, and when I was on the ground, I pressed my head down, fearing rocks would land on me. When the sky opened up, hot wind raced between the houses, which left traces in the ground like pathways, and it damaged the crops.
this witness testimony was recorded in 1930 by Leonid Kulik's expedition.


Although for many years scientists thought it was probably a meteor, the lack of evidence has led to numerous speculations ranging from UFO’s to black holes. to this day, no one knows for sure what caused the explosion. During the explosion the fireball that ensued, witnessed by the handful of terrified, distant onlookers, a fireball witnessed as falling from the sky, was later estimated to have been many miles wide.
What caused the Tunguska explosion? And most importantly what is buried at the epicentre of the event, or what was left on the earth. whatever it is, for the past 100 years the only vegetation capable of surviving the locations environment is grass.
The sheer force of the event destroyed trees far and wide, near ground zero damages were similar to those registered during atmospheric nuclear tests in the 1950s and 1960s. The trees directly below the explosion were stripped of their bark and snapped flat, while trees farther away were knocked over and uprooted.
Interestingly, the explosions pattern was in the shape of a butterfly.
The Tunguska event is the largest impact event ever recorded on earth.
Studies have yielded different estimates of the objects size, depending on whether the body was a comet, a denser asteroid, or something else entirely.
a team of researchers published analysis results of micro-samples from a peat bog near the centre of the affected area showing fragments that may be of meteorologic origin.
whether these fragments have been found to contain alien pollutants, has not been disclosed, but the physical evidence at the site would suggest a hostile chemical was released during the event, which even after a hundred years is still having a drastic effect on the landscape.
It is estimated that the Tunguska explosion knocked down some 80 million trees over an area of 2,150 square kilometres, and that the shock wave from the blast would have measured 5.0 on the Richter magnitude scale.
Whatever it was, this thing was BIG, also, there is clearly something that still remains at the location, and it isn’t friendly to life.
https://www.psi.edu/epo/siberia/siber...

The Tunguska Mystery



The Mystery of the Tunguska Fireball



Tunguska



The Tunguska Event: The Mystery of the Biggest Explosion in Recorded History



Tunguska: a new look at an old mystery



Tales from Majestic - Tunguska



The Tunguska Catastrophe: Pieces of a Puzzle



Tunguska: An Apocalyptic Event Beyond Belief



Tales from Majestic: Tunguska

with a smile "You must have missed the X-File arc about Tunguska"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungusk...

David wrote: "with a smile "You must have missed the X-File arc about Tunguska"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungusk..."

Never saw that episode, mate.
But now I want to.
Sounds ambitious and expensive for a US TV show to film in Russia!

My feeling is it was a smallish dislodged Kuiper Belt Object. My reason: it seemed to be too big for a comet, although I suppose a very large comet and a small KBO are much the same, and its impact strongly suggests the absence of anything solid. As far as I know, there are no rocky fragments or bits of metal lying around, and the area is very large, but not very deep (as I understand what I have read). The point about the KBO, as opposed to comets, is that they are close enough to the sun to have photochemistry, and some quite noxious chemicals, of which cyanides are the mildest, are made on their surfaces. If these were spread around, as one might expect when the object probably exploded above the ground due to heat vaporising the interior gases, there would be a massive explosion, but little ground impact, and this noxious stuff would be spread vigorously. However, I doubt we shall really ever know for sure.

MEGABLAST MYSTERY Russian scientists ‘debunk’ evidence meteorite caused world’s biggest-ever explosion … so what DID trigger Tunguska event blast, the size of 185 atomic bombs? https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2682299...

THE cause of the world’s biggest explosion remains a mystery after Russian experts say scientific research “proving” it was a meteorite is flawed.

The so-called Tunguska event coincided with a large streaking fireball crossing the Siberian sky on June 20 1908, and its eruption some six miles above ground flattened 80million trees, leaving charred reindeer carcasses.

I've thought about this one a lot over the years and can't commit to any one idea with any reasonable amount of certainty. While a comet (or something of the like) seems like the most obvious answer, it's worth noting that the explosion took place in a remote area with minimal effect on human life. That could be totally coincidental or it could have been a very deliberate effort by human or alien beings. This one seems to have no possible answer or too many possible answers. More than any mystery I would love to know the answer to this one the most! If anyone is holding the secret, I'll be here😊

Rebecca wrote: "More than any mystery I would love to know the answer to this one the most! If anyone is holding the secret, I'll be here..."

It'll be solved right here in "the Underground" in time, Rebecca, don't worry...Someone will enter the Underground with the answer!

I like to imagine that intelligent aliens exist, and they were watching from far away, and one of them turned to his colleagues and said "The spectrometer readings indicate an active biosphere on the planet. I hope no one got hurt."

You know, someday, if our own instruments and telescopes get really powerful, or we send probes close enough to other worlds, we might see one of them get hit, even wiped out. The more worlds we observe, the greater those unfortunate odds become.

Nikola Tesla & Tunguska Event - Did Tesla Cause The Explosion ??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hoU-...

The timing coincides with the earth moving through the Taurid debris stream. I think an exploding comet fragment is the most likely suspect.

Jesus: "You never let me do anything, Dad!"

God: "Okay, just this once."

Jesus accidentally drops comet on Russia. "Oops."

God: "And this is why I don't let you do anything."

Ha!
That's funny, Ray!

Experts admit they still don't know what caused Tunguska | Daily Mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetec...

Biggest explosion in documented history is STILL a mystery: New study fails to find cause of 1908 Tunguska blast that 'split the sky in two' and flattened 80 million Siberian trees

The explosion occurred on June 30, 1908 in the Tunguska region of Siberia

Eighty million trees flattened in blast, charred reindeer found by hundreds

Eyewitnesses at the time said it was as though the sky was split in two

Scientists say it was likely a comet or asteroid, though little evidence found

Others have suggested UFOs, supernatural activity, or the curse of a god


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetec...

Probably related:
In a very remote area of Russia , there is a place called death something (valley, bog, mountain, or similar) people who live in this area has on a few occations been out in the wild and gotten surprised by extreme blizzards.

They have found them self in this place (well known ) there is “bell shaped objects” partially sunken into the ground. And they have taken refugee there, its always fairly warm in those, and it never snows over, the snow that goes on them melts away.

But The people there warns: “Do not eat or drink anything that you find in there, it will kill you. And do not linger, you get sick, vomit, and loose your hair (radiation sickness perhaps?).
Its in the area of Tunguska. That would not be suspicious if it was a modern thing. But its not.

Its described in the earlest church books of the area, since the first priest sent there died after spending a lot of time sheltering inside one. Then he went back at a later time, got sick, lost his hair, and to see if he could find any markings of a demon on them. Cause surely only a demon made thing would cause such a reaction in a person.

Armed with bible, faith, and, Holy water. A rosary and deep prairs he went back... subsequently he expired.
The Church was swift in sending a replacement.
The new priest saw this and knew it was the devils bells beacuse the young priest (ground freezes over and dead are stored there until it defrosts so he got a deep frozen look at him) was a frightful sight: “Boils on the part of his face that was adjecent to the burned of parts where he placed his face against the bell (probably to listen i Would guess).
The hands had skin burned of as well, the locals told the new priest that the dead one had not listened to their warning, never touch if not necessary,
It is a legit verified source, the church books. And the priest succession there is documented as well. Each of the hells bells victims was always carefully noted as such since it would demand extra care in deep burying, extra prairs, and if that was not followed nothing, not a single straw would grow on the grave.. ^^

But here is the puzzling part:... The Bells they are sinking, and some were already (way back then) almost submerged.
But their number has not become less, on the contrary, a few more has shown up, to the best of my knowledge current amount would be 14 .
And where do they come from? I dubt there was a nuclear plant or similar in the 1500’s.

On a side note there is a lot of (ufos) chariots of the sky that started showing up in the background of paintings from that era.. And in churchbooks around the christian and missionised parts its written down.

Another sidenote: These documents are translated from the native language there by several different experts, while the iron curtain was still in place previous leaders there has had teams of experts trying to solve this and on one occation retrieve one of the bells, all the information surrounding these “hells bells” were tightly guarded, and very secret. It was rumored they were connected to Tesla, the philadelphia experiment, timetravel etc. (unverified). Today its very hard to find any information about these, that area, or what they found.

“The event has been written in history as “The White Nights of the summer of 1908.” On the night of 30 June it hardly became dark at all. This light was connected with the dawns which resemble the “volcanic twilight” which was observed after the eruption of Mount Krakatoa in 1883. At that time changes of the polarization of the twilight sky were observed. This phenomenon was noticed for 2-3 days before the explosion in Tunguska. The changes were observed in ten different places at night on 29th and 30th June. The biggest anomalies occurred on the night after the explosion and were recorded in 150 places in Europe and Asia . The intensity of the explosion in the regions furthest from the explosion quickly died down and the cosmic fireball had for the most part finished by 4 July. However, in several parts of Europe the echo could be heard until 20 July.”
See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/science/m...

B. Sinsational wrote: "“This phenomenon was noticed for 2-3 days before the explosion in Tunguska. The changes were observed in ten different places at night on 29th and 30th June. ..."

I wasn't aware of this.
Interesting stuff, Anna!

new? different look at Tunguska/ fascinating, alarming if it pans out/ begs some informed explaining!

Exactly 101 years ago, the Tunguska explosion took place over Siberia. Commonly thought to be caused by the air burst of a comet or meteor over the area, the impact was a 1,000 times more powerful than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima, and it knocked over an estimated 80 million trees.

On youtube Joe Rogan has done some very interesting interviews with Randall Carlson and Graham Hancock with extensive discussion of the effects of major impact events.

This was certainly weird. My guess is that since nothing landed, it was not a strong solid object, so it is more likely to be a comet. Changing trajectory could be merely due to gas coming out one side - comets tend to release gas as jets from "fumaroles", and the comet would break up and disintegrate from the stress.

However, a light seen two days prior is odd. I suppose it could still be a comet giving off gas, but you would expect to see the nucleus. I suppose it could be the tail off a comet, with the comet actually coming from the direction of the sun (i.e., its orbit has gone around the back of the sun and was then coming more or less on a collision course with us) so the nucleus would only be visible in daylight, when you probably couldn't see it.

At the end of June/early July, like now, the earth crosses the part of the Taurid debris stream that is coming from a sunward direction. You wouldn't be able to see it coming if a large piece was on a collision course.

Explosion could also have been due to an electrical arc if there was enough of a charge differential between the object and the earth.

I'm wondering if the lights and the explosion are part of a causal relationship or merely occured in the same time frame. The Pravda article referenced a "magnetic storm" detected in Irkutsk. This made me think of a CME, which might also explain the lights. I Googled, "strong aurora 1908", which led to this link:

http://www.solarstorms.org/SRefStorms...

There is an article from the Washinton Post reporting on an aurora which was visible in Washington DC in September of 1908. Interesting, but not a smoking gun. Does anyone have access to European and/or Asian archives, which might have recorded anomalous auroras and/or electrical problems during the summer of 1908?

J. wrote: "Does anyone have access to European and/or Asian archives, which might have recorded anomalous auroras and/or electrical problems during the summer of 1908? ..."

And while they are at it, maybe what sort of scientific experimentation was going on at the same time...

Just so we are looking at all sides.

Ian wrote: "However, a light seen two days prior is odd. I suppose it could still be a comet giving off gas, but you would expect to see the nucleus. I suppose it could be the tail off a comet, ..."

Yes, that's one of many odd things about this entire event. The fact that it was so long ago with no eyewitnesses still alive probably doesn't help. The reports from Russians in that region who were alive then are also strange.

And certainly there is no consensus within the scientific community (as evidenced by the Russian article below) which means in my view Tunguska fits the criteria for an "unexplained" or even "mysterious" event...

A century later scientists still at odds on Tunguska Event explanation https://sputniknews.com/analysis/2009...

Of course, we need to keep in mind the scientific community at large are by their very nature and current belief system not open to classified technologies or Tesla-style science that's beyond known or acknowledged technologies...So that must be thrown into ANY discussion involving an unexplained event, just as it's important to mention many lay people in this internet age often end up accepting pseudoscience due to their own belief systems.

Not that I am saying Tunguska was necessarily caused by such technologies, for all I know it was just some everyday comet. But it does need to be acknowledged anytime you hear "the international scientific community are investigating"...Modern scientists are great in many regards, but they unfortunately also have become unscientific (beliefs/bias) in other ways and have accepted various belief systems (without proof) about what is and is not possible in the Earth's present or past e.g. you won't find too many scientists open to investigating the POSSIBILITY of super technologies of the past with structures like the Pyramids, which is again not to say they were necessarily created by such technologies, but the fact is we do not know...

The problem with investigating scientifically the Tunguska event is there is no new information, some of the old information might be unreliable, so we really have nothing substantial to work with. I think the scientists will leave it as "unexplained" because of that, and not because of any particular reluctance. They don't know; we don't know.

Saying "we don't know" or "unexplained" is better, whereas I've seen a lot of scientific literature online implying it's definitely a comet/meteor (when it isn't conclusively proven) or else trying to prove that when it doesn't seem to be able to be proven after over a century of investigation. I just think sometimes mysteries have to be left at mysteries...Or else we need more evidence to come to light, as you say...

THE SEMI-LATEST FROM RUSSIA ON TUNGUSKA, FROM 2004 https://gizadeathstar.com/2018/12/the...

If you're one of those fascinated by the Tunguska event like I am, then this story will definitely arch your eyebrows. And even if you're not, it still might do that. For those who don't know the story, on June 30, 1908, in the remote region of Siberia near the Tunguska river, something exploded. Nor was this an ordinary explosion, for it seemingly exploded with the force of a large - a very large - thermonuclear bomb, flattening trees for miles around, and according to some reports, creating light effects and rattling windows thousands of miles away. Some witnesses described seeing a fireball streaking across Siberia prior to the explosion. No determination was made on what had happened, though expeditions were urged. World War One, and then the Russian Revolution and Civil War intervened. When eventually the Soviet Union managed to mount an expedition to the region to find out what happened, no impact crater was found, but the devastation was still apparent.

The theories for what happened have run the whole spectrum, from bolides (exploding meteors) to more exotic explanations: a matter-antimatter reaction of "something", a black hole that impacted with the Earth's atmosphere, and some even entertain that this event was the result of Nicola Tesla demonstrating the weaponization potential of his "wireless broadcast of electrical power" idea. And, of course, some have argued that it was an extraterrestrial spaceship that malfunctioned for some reason, and blew up.

It's the latter theory that interests us today, because Ms. K.M. found this story - at phys.org no less! - about the latest Russian expedition to the site, and its findings and conclusions (Note, this story is from 2004, but I find it intriguing nonetheless for reasons we'll get to in a moment):

https://phys.org/news/2004-08-tungusk...

What's new here is not only the theory, but the approach taken to make a new discovery:

Up till now, scientists believed that Tunguska event was caused by the airburst of an asteroid about 5 miles above the surface of the Earth. The asteroid is believed to have been roughly 60 meters across.

Now, researchers had traced the possible trajectory of the space object, assuming that the object had flown from West to East, unlike the previous missions who considered East to West direction. The new approach allowed the expedition members to find a buried object covered with trees.

The object appeared to be a large block made with metal. The researchers chipped a piece of the object and will now test its composition. Preliminary analyses show that it is a compound of iron silicate with unknown material.

This has led to a new theory:

The new theory suggests that the event was a collision of a meteorite with an alien spaceship. “They exploded this enormous meteorite that headed towards us with enormous speed,” Yuri Lavbin said. Now this great object that caused the meteorite to explode is found at last. We will continue our research, he said.

We'll get back to that curiously worded statement in a moment. For now, it's worth noting that there's no other articles at phys.org (at least, that I could find) about this expedition nor its astonishing claims. Rather, one finds subsequent stories that the Russians have now found the impact crater, and a few rocks they claim to have come from whatever it was that exploded, rocks indicating that it was something entirely natural (nothing to see here, move along):

https://phys.org/news/2013-05-russian...
https://phys.org/news/2013-06-reexami...
https://phys.org/news/2012-05-team-ev...
https://phys.org/news/2009-06-space-s...
... and so on. There is, as far as I can tell, no further follow-up to the 2004 story, unless of course (here comes high octane speculation #1) the subsequent articles are the follow-up, designed to detract from the 2004 story and return the theories of the event to "normalcy." There's no more mention of the metallic object nor its allegedly strange composition. It's now back to rocks.

For the sake of argument and our high octane speculation today, however, let's assume the 2004 story is true, that a metallic object was found that led the expedition members to conclude that a collision of some sort took place in the atmosphere above Tunguska between a meteor or asteroid and some sort of artificial object. If so, the subsequent articles may have been deliberate spin of something that, for whatever reason, leaked, and involved Russian national security. But it's that last statement that really caught my attention: "They exploded this enormous meteorite that headed towards us with enormous speed." They? They who? Given the state of technology in 1908, it's difficult to believe "they" would have been earth-bound humans, so the statement implies that someone else intervened to prevent a catastrophe, perhaps by firing a kinetic impact - a "rod of God" - weapon at it. The strangeness of the theory amps up when one considers the statements made by Prime Minister Dmitri Medvedev before the similar bolide incident of the Chelyabinsk meteor which exploded over that city on February 13 2013. Medvedev, you'll recall, appeared on Russian television, calling for an international system of planetary defense against dangerous asteroids (shades of the Rosian affidavit), and if Russia could not obtain such cooperation, it should build out a defense system on its own utilizing themonuclear missiles and "other" means of defense which he did not specify.

The bottom line, however, is that the 2004 article is maintaining that someone intervened, and that means, someone is watching this planet. Beyond this, it implies in a round about way that someone may be hurtling rocks at this planet, and someone else may be intervening. Think Oumuamua, which came bounding into the solar system recently, and which still has scientists baffled. Think too of that strange bright spot of infrared that was detected on it, almost as if someone had diverted its trajectory with a weapon, perhaps nuclear. Beyond this, the strange Tunguska story about the metal object simply disappeared amid subsequent articles about meteoric rocks and impact craters, and was never heard from again.

https://gizadeathstar.com/2018/12/the...

The "unknown" material is a cop-out. If it were magnesium or even something like calcium, it is a standard basaltic rock. Nothing else and it would be fayalite or the pyroxene equivalent. Until they announce what the something else is, it is of little interest at all.

How bad of a flying saucer pilot would you have to be to collide with a meteor?

Jim, if you didn't have a means of detecting said meteor far enough away, I suppose with a possiblest;e relative velocity of up to 20,000 k/s I guess it is possible. But if a meteor downed the saucer, wouldn't there be ALL the bits of the saucer somewhere nearby?

If my ship couldn't detect it soon enough, I wouldn't really want to travel the galaxy in it. Too many potential hazards.

Anyway, I was just riffing on the suggestion that the meteor collided with something artificial.

New Tunguska Event Could Happen Again In June 2019 https://canadianhomesteading.ca/scien...

That theory says every June is a possibility. Possible, yes, but looking at all past Junes, not highly probable.

Complex 13

Tunguska remains a total mystery 111 later... https://7news.com.au/news/world/tungu...

It produced a blast hundreds of times stronger than the Hiroshima bomb, was seen hundreds of kilometres away and narrowly missed obliterating an entire city -- but 111 years to the week after the mysterious explosion in Siberia, no one is any closer to understanding what caused it.

Despite countless investigations, the so-called Tunguska Event remains one of the 20th century's greatest enigmas -- seized upon by mystics, UFO enthusiasts and scientists as evidence of angry gods, extraterrestrial life or the impending threat of a cosmic collision.

But says Stanislav Krivyakov, who has spent the past 35 years investigating the Siberian blast, despite intense interest in the event -- which has featured in several episodes of "The X-Files" -- no conclusive evidence has been found to support any theory.

1908 Tunguska Explosion? - Tesla Society https://www.teslasociety.com/tunguska...
Mysterious Tunguska Explosion of 1908 in Siberia may be linked to Tesla's experiments of wireless transmission

It was an incoming meteor or comet, burning up in the atmosphere and finally detonating or disintegrating in an air burst. Much like the Hiroshima blast.
Only because it had so much more of it’s own kinetic energy to expend the blast was many times greater.
There will be others. Just as there have been others in the past. We as a race haven’t seen other big ones because we’ve only been here a few days on the scale of time.