Support for Indie Authors discussion

Hey guys. I am working on the revisions of my first book and I have noticed that some of my chapters are longer than others. I didn't intentionally want my chapters to be different lengths, but they just ended up that way. I actually like the different chapter lengths. I wanted to get a discussion going about this. I want to see what everyone else does. When you write a book that has chapters, do you predetermine the word count for each chapter or do you write until you feel the chapter should end.

I don't get concerned about chapter length. If you need more words to describe something, than that's it. Novel is not about the chapter aesthetics but about the story and storytelling skill.
I'd say just write and pay attention to make it wonderful as much as you can, and edit, edit, edit. Size of the chapter is of secondary value.
In my humble opinion.

First book had 27 chapters that ran from 2000 to 6000 words each. Second book looks may be 15 chapters running from 5000 to 9000 words each. Aim for each is a 80-85K word novel. I collapse and break out chapters as the writing of them progresses. I think of chapters as distinct scenes that may take a few words to convey or many words to complete. So, that's how I approach it.

I find that later chapters are longer than earlier ones. My writing partner pointed it out to me but she also says it's not a big deal, especially with scene breaks thrown in.

I'm a staunch believer in outlining, which means before I even start writing my novel I have a full play-by-play of how things go, including chapter breakdown. Because of the way my brain works logically, I unintentionally divide the content into fairly equal chapters. So by accident my chapters all average just over 3000 words. That being said, if a chapter runs too long or too short. I don't worry about it (unless it's a difference of over 1500 words).

I don't care about length, unless they are way too long. ( Only because i don't like long chapters. I like to be able to stop reading at chapters and it can be hard when you start a long one.)

If they are too long, i'll try to find a place where it would be natural to cut them but if I can't, it'll stay that way. I don't like forcing WC into chapters. It either adds unnecessary words or cuts important stuff out.

For me, a chapter has to say what it has to say, no more no less. WC be darned. :P

I used to be concerned with chapter lengths, and set an arbitrary page length and that's where I looked for a place to cut them off. But now I just go with a change in the direction of the action. I put the breaks in what seems like the right place in the outline or first draft, and if it doesn't feel right when I am revising, I change it.

Some chapters can be quite short. Mine are generally 2,000-5,000 words long, but it all depends on the action. They can be short or long. Reader preference in the age of ereaders tends to be for shorter chapters.

I feel the same as most of you do. I just go with the flow of the action. Some chapters are only 1200 words long and my longest is 3000 words long. I like it just fine that way.

I write in scenes—more than chapters—because I write fantasy that involves different worlds, and I often end up moving scenes, anyway. I usually cut at chapter off anywhere from 2,400 to 2,600 words and just make sure the last scene has a bit of a hook at the end to keep the reader engaged. I imagine I could make my chapters longer, but I read a lot, and I hate long chapters—so that's just a personal preference for me.

Every chapter or scene has its purpose. It's length is therefore whatever it takes to achieve that purpose. Sometimes this results in short 2-page chapters, other times it produces 30-page chapters.

That's my view, at least.

I have encountered some books described as "fast-paced" that, in practice, really means every chapter is about 1-3 pages long, with over 100 of such tiny chapters.

J.N. - You have beaten me to it. Purpose of the chapter should act as a guide to the number of words.

It seems that, historically, chapters were longer. Nowadays chapters seem to be shorter. As do sentences!

In practice, I try never to have a chapter under 1,000 words and never over 3,000.

I guess it depends on what I'm writing. One of my books has short chapters. Another of my books has longer chapters. I don't word count, I'm too undisciplined for that. But I'd say in one book the chapters are 1K to 1.2K in length. In the other, maybe about 2.5K words. I break where it seems to occur naturally.

I'm one of those who find the chapter length is dependent on what is happening. I have one book where I have 1 page "chapters" interspersed with longer chapters. It is all about what fits your book. I've had chapters as long a 5K words and as short as 500. Natural breaks in the action for me means a new chapter. I actually prefer chapters of various lengths over the tightly controlled word counts. Maybe it's due to my brain which short circuits and jumps from one thing to another..lol.

I am more concerned with chapter content and chapter titles than word count. Some of my chapters are short and some are quite long but I don't think that's a bad thing. I also find that mine get longer with the first few chapters being the shortest.

As with most here, I say don't worry about chapter length. Personally, I'll have chapters range from 13 to 40 pages. It always depends on what's happening in the story in the moment. Sometimes, you need more pages to get to the story's natural break, and that's absolutely fine. As long as we aren't adding pages/words as padding, chapter length shouldn't matter, and it really, really doesn't. If a reader is engrossed in a story, they won't care or notice. They'll just want more.

Everything that I have read about chapters is that they should vary in length. Like some of you, I write in scenes. I use write about three of four scenes per chapter depending on what is happening or what the theme of the chapter is. Just like varying sentence length conveys varying speed, varying chapter speed tends to do the same and it keeps the novel from feeling monotonous overall, at least at the subconscious level. Besides, if it feels good to you, you might want to keep it.

You might be interested in this topic, too:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

I really don't give much thought to chapter length. My current work in progress takes place over twenty-seven days. Every chapter gives the events in a single day. There are twenty-four chapters. (Sundays are skipped). Some days are more eventful than others, so the chapters are coming out in varying lengths. Some are long. Some are really long.

I hadn't really thought about it until I read this, so out of curiosity I went back into the .doc file for my book and sampled a few chapters-- about half battle scenes and about half were expositions/world building. With no real trends between them, they were respectively about 2400, 3500, 2500, 4000, and 2800 words.

I think C.A. said it right above- try to end with a little hook. People need to put the book down at some point to feed, rest, continue the rest of their lives, but the hook gives them a reason to come back.

On the subject of chapters, I'd love to know how often y'all try to end chapters at a natural stopping point vs. a cliffhanger.

For me, when I'm outlining a book, each chapter is like a small story unto itself with a mini-theme, introduction, middle, and conclusion. But during the revision stage, I'll sometimes move my chapter breaks to the middle of a scene in order to create a small cliffhanger. Though not always, because it's difficult to create a cliffhanger for 20+ chapters, and I think it can get exhausting for the reader.

I suppose it depends on the genre, though. Readers of suspense probably expect a lot more cliffhangers than, say, women's fiction.

I enjoy chapters of varying lengths. Very long chapters are exhausting to me to read and and sometimes to write. I tend to see the scenes like a movie and I try to end them naturally. Some contain a cliffhanger of sorts, if needed. But I have no idea of the word count of the chapters in the books I've written.

Do what you think is right for your book.

Not really big on cliffhangers as a reader or a writer. The times I've tried it, they felt forced and cheap. Instead, I try to work something into every scene (or even paragraph or sentence, if I can) that will intrigue the reader, give them something to ponder, give them a little mystery, give them a hint of what is to come.

Dwayne wrote: "Not really big on cliffhangers as a reader or a writer. The times I've tried it, they felt forced and cheap. Instead, I try to work something into every scene (or even paragraph or sentence, if I c..."

That's an excellent point. Even when I don't end on an overt cliffhanger, I always try to end chapters on a note that foreshadows what's to come.

I'm not personally a huge fan of cliffhangers (see also: why I don't tend to read a lot of thrillers), but every romance novel I've loved seems to include at least a few during the high points, so I try to write to genre. There's a case to be made that cliffhangers help make a book unputdownable, and I'd like my books to be at least a little unputdownable. :) On the other hand, overuse can lead to reader fatigue and loss of effectiveness. Like everything else in writing, it's a balancing act.

I'm a genre-jumper, so after I publish my epic high-falutin long-winded inter-lectshul coming-of-age lit. fic. whatever it is, I have plans for a romantic paranormal thriller and a YA fantasy trilogy. I suppose I'll have to bang a few cliffhangers into those things. It seems to be expected in books like that.

A chapter should be as long (or short) as it needs to. I'm more worried about ideas stepping over each other than the chapter length. I have one chapter 5 pages long followed by a one page long chapter and followed by another 5 pages long chapter. Depends of the story and in my case, it couldn't be anything else. If you watch a movie you'll notice that some scenes are 4 minutes long and some are only flashing by. Can a screenwriter make all scenes 4 minutes long? Absolutely not. That would be an awful movie. Follow the natural flow of your story. DO NOT start the chapter with the same character the previous one ended with unless it's a one man's journey type of story.

V. M. wrote: "DO NOT start the chapter with the same character the previous one ended with unless it's a one man's journey type of story. "

Or, y'know, unless you want to.

I've done it. So have countless other authors. I see no harm in it. Could you explain why you believe this is a rule?

So far my shortest chapter has been 1200 words and my longest has been 3054 words. It just depends on the action of the chapter. Some chapters have more action than others. Some chapters have more dialogue then others, so I like the variety.

V. M. wrote: "DO NOT start the chapter with the same character the previous one ended with unless it's a one man's journey type of story..."

I write the first person perspective of one character only but if I'd write from different ones and the chapter would lead me to keep the same character, I'd do it. So what you're advising here has me baffled. I'd really like to know based on what fact are you saying that?

I read a book where a chapter ended with a character running away from home and the next chapter started with that same character walking on the street and looking over his shoulder as part of the same scene. I thought that should be part of the same chapter as the action didn't end. So that chapter should have been 300 words longer, but in that book all chapters were same length. A chapter should be as long as it needs to.

Okay. So, it's not a rule, it's your personal preference. It's a stylistic choice. Sometimes chapter breaks come not at the end of a scene, but when there is a change in the mood of the character(s). Sometimes it happens when there is a shift in the focus of the story. Since I don't know what book you're talking about, I will guess that the author ended one chapter as whatever drama drove the character to leave home had ended, for the time, and the adventures ahead were starting. If you didn't care for how the author handled his / her story, that's fine. Use that to develop your own style. But, it is not a hard rule to be passing on to other authors. It is your preference.

It's something I've learned in the screenwriting class about scenes The book I wrote is adapted backward (from screenplay to novella). It's creative writing. There are no rules.

I do a quick outline of each chapter, so I go in with an estimated word count goal. This is, of course, is personal preference. My goal is around 3K per chapter, or 1500 words per scene for a novella (2 scenes per chapter). I need the boundaries because I'm a pantser and I can go off the rails easily and then get stuck! With just a little pre-planning I was able to crank out a 35K word novella in just a few weeks. Ultimately, you have to do whatever works for your creative flow and of course whatever works for your story.

Some of my books are all from one character's point of view. Of course, each chapter begins with the MC, and ends with the MC. The book I am writing now is told from different POVs. There are four different characters, each with their own parts of the story. Each chapter is devoted to one of the four, but they are all coming together in the next part of the story, so it will revert to everyone being in the scene together.
That being said, I personally agree with Dwayne: it is the prerogative of the writer if he wants to continue the next chapter with the same character. I had one chapter that was so long that I split it up into two chapters featuring the same character because it flowed better. When it comes to rules, remember this one: There are no rules. In my humble opinion, of course. LOL!

V. M. wrote: "I read a book where a chapter ended with a character running away from home and the next chapter started with that same character walking on the street and looking over his shoulder as part of the ..."

I see what you mean. In this case, maybe a scene break would have been enough, but to generalize that no two chapters should star the same character, I think it depends on the story and the author. It can be done in a way that feels right.

V. M. wrote: "It's something I've learned in the screenwriting class about scenes The book I wrote is adapted backward (from screenplay to novella). It's creative writing. There are no rules."

Ah, okay, that makes sense. There's a lot that about screenwriting that can be applied to narrative fiction writing. In this case, however, the "rule" is a function of the limitations of the medium. In a movie, there's no page break on screen to cue the audience that a new "chapter" is beginning. So unless you include a visual interlude to break up the two scenes, there's no way to separate them. And if any time has passed or action has occurred offscreen in the "gutter," the audience will be disoriented. That doesn't necessarily apply to a novel, however.

Though you do still have to be careful not to insert a clumsily-executed chapter break that leaves the reader wondering why you would break at that moment. There has to be some kind of natural pause in the narrative, or else it will seem jarring. I always think of it like a commercial break in television writing. You need to give your audience a break to go to the bathroom, but you want them hooked enough that they come right back.

I'm with many of the comments here, in not getting too hung up on chapter length. I look for natural points in the story to start a new chapter, and I also agree that chapter length (like sentence length) can be used to good advantage to help with pacing.

I used to place chapter breaks as I wrote. With my current WIP I tried something different and just wrote in scenes. I'll go back and decide where chapters will fall once I've completed my next round of edits.

G.G. wrote: "I like to be able to stop reading at chapters" - Uh-oh! One key decision for me in where to break chapters is to try and end on a cliffhanger, to entice the reader to read on ... mwahahaha ... sorry, G.G.

To continue with the "the only rule is there are no rules" theme, I personally love it when I start to wonder what the author is up to. I love being a bit jarred. I love authors who say, "to hell with playing it safe. This is my book."

I once read a book where there was a chapter break in the middle of a sentence. Brilliant!

Ian wrote: ".G. wrote: "I like to be able to stop reading at chapters" - Uh-oh! One key decision for me in where to break chapters is to try and end on a cliffhanger, to entice the reader to read on ... mwahahaha ... sorry, G.G. ..."

hahaha That is PERFECTLY fine with me. What I want is to be able to know where I have to continue. A page starting with CHAPTER is easier to a period at the end of a sentence that might be on the third line of the paragraph. (if you see what I mean?)

I write how the story, characters, etc. guide me. I don't care or worry about chapter length. I write in scenes and I also write each scenes as in the form of like short stories so each character in the whole of the novel can take center stage, especially when its a series, sometimes I may let the main character join in. I have a lyrical writing style so I don't follow rules. I have a weird and unique way of composing stories and I mix several genres at once. I write all genres and sometimes the chapters are long and other times they are short. I like to leave an air a mystery, an unanswered question in the chapters so the reader can draw their own conclusion. My characters are multifaceted and complex and I don't do typical storylines, endings or characters. I just write what I like, in the way that I like and in the end I don't mind sharing what I like with others by publishing it for others to consume. If it's not their cup of tea for whatever reason, it doesn't stop me from writing what I want to see in the world that I don't see in the world. I'm not trying to do what's popular just what's outside the box. What I'm saying is do what works for you whether chapter length or storyline, etc. If the audience likes what you share with them great. If they don't then also fine and dandy.

Chapter break in the middle of a sentence! Sounds like Cloud Atlas. :) loved that book.
For ebooks, I like to read and write short chapters. It's the story that matters though.

Book 1 is 111,000 words with 90+ chapters. Book 2 is 77,000 words and a little over 70 chapters. I try to keep my chapters 3 to 5 pages, but if it's necessary to make it longer to finish a scene, then that's what happens.

M.L. Roberts wrote: "Chapter break in the middle of a sentence! Sounds like Cloud Atlas. :) loved that book."

I've never read that, but now I'm intrigued.

I can't remember the book I was talking about. I wish I could. It could have been a Vonnegut or maybe Christopher Moore. I used to read a lot of his books and he was a bit wacky like that. I could see Douglas Adams doing something like that, too.

Honestly, depending on how it's done, I'd probably think it's a formatting error if I'd see that. :P

My chapter lengths vary as well. I don't think it matters. I like to keep them on the shorter side, between a thousand to five thousand words.

I will say that whenever I am reading, though, I do prefer books that have shorter chapters. I don't know why, but it's just a preference.

I am now adapting backward a TV show pilot. The pilot episode is 30 min long and came to about 38 pages. I just started writing the 2nd chapter and I'm thinking to keep the length of an episode. I will probably name the chapters 'Book One,' 'Book Two,' all the way up to 'Book Ten.' I took all the cuss words out.
Is there any way to publish 'Book One' for $0? I want the readers to read the whole chapter for free and publish the book in Nov. (I will finish it by then).
The screenplay is on Amazon Studios website. I was thinking to put the book in preorder and in description to post the link to A.S.
Any advice?

My chapters tend to run between 10 and 12 double-spaced lines. Since I have different POV characters (usually four), I sometimes have scenes involving at least two of those POV characters. Most of the time, but not always, the chapter that follows does not start with the character it ended with, but it all depends on what point the plot is at. I think the bottom line is having your story flow naturally and holding the reader’s interest.

Dwayne wrote: "M.L. Roberts wrote: "Chapter break in the middle of a sentence! Sounds like Cloud Atlas. :) loved that book."

I've never read that, but now I'm intrigued.

I can't remember the book I was talking..."

I love Kurt Vonnegut. :) He makes so much sense.

G.G. wrote: "Honestly, depending on how it's done, I'd probably think it's a formatting error if I'd see that. :P"

Haha! That's what I thought. Hey (mutter, mutter), where's the rest of it? It didn't continue in the next chapter either. It's a great book. :)

I learned years ago that sentences, paragraphs, scenes and chapters should vary in length. It gives the book a better rhythm than everything being the same length, and I agree. It tends to flow better.

It isn't the length of your chapters, it is what you do with it that counts!

I believe that the chapter should be as long (or short) as it takes to say what needs to be said and then move on. Some people obviously have different writing styles, and so do what works for you and what makes your story flow.

As evidence that it's okay to be short when the rest are long, I submit Chapter 31 of "Something Wicked This Way Comes" by Ray Bradbury in its entirety:

"Nothing much else happened, all the rest of that night."