Support for Indie Authors discussion

I'm just wondering if there's a time lapse between the plot and the character, disregarding which is selected first. I think we must have an idea, and a strong character to develop that idea and move the story. I see a plot as a Dodge Viper, and a character as a great driver who is going to make that Viper run.

Micah wrote: "Nat wrote: "I like to outline so I don't spend 20 passes on editing..."

OTOH, The only book I ever fully outlined has been in edits now for 22 years.

20 passes? Pfft!"

Seriously... 20 passes is huge. I spend 3 years on one book, got it published, but still, that's a lot of time. 22 years is MUCH longer, holy cow how do you get anything else done, but 20 passes is still hundreds/thousands of hours of work I don't feel I need to waste on if I'd had better plot structure.

This, of course, is only my experience.

Depends... I start with an idea, a concept, and then plot and characters usually work themselves out equally from the research I do on my concept. That's what's happening now as I'm researching book 2. But my first book? After the concept, plot edged out character in the beginning, cause I knew how I wanted the first chapter to go, but then they equalized once I wrote from there.

Both plot and character are equally important to me. I don't want to read a book that's a character sketch with no plot, and I also don't want to read a plot driven book with cardboard cutout, boring characters. Or characters that irritate me.

I often come up with the briefest of plots first based on the motivation of a character and go from there. Although I have been known to wake up with a line of dialogue in my head from which I build a character and then work on plot details.

I think it could go either or and is a matter of preferred taste and opinion. I myself am going about character first and plot second but only because the plot is so big that I want to build the basics of my characters first so afterwards I will be able to focus solely on plot. As the plot is being mapped out I will insert the characters into their proper roles and places and then build off both of them.

Nat wrote: "Micah wrote: " 22 years is MUCH longer, holy cow how do you get anything else done..."

Well ... I didn't say it was 22 years of continuously editing it. I just put it in the drawer and return to it every half a decade or so.

;D

What's true for great, or good, movies is true for books, graphic novels, even record albums. Story is pretty much king. If the story isn't working, it doesn't matter how interesting the actors or characters are. All you have to do is watch a movie with your favorite actor going from scene to scene in a movie that never gets off the ground. If Led Zeppelin's Physical Graffiti had one or two good songs, would you bother buying the double album, and moreover, listen to it again and again?

Adam wrote: "What's true for great, or good, movies is true for books, graphic novels, even record albums. Story is pretty much king. If the story isn't working, it doesn't matter how interesting the actors or ..."

So, this really can depend.

For my first book, I sort of came up with the story first. Then I needed dimensions for the characters and once their personalities evolved, the story expanded on its own.

Then I created this secondary character and accidentally made him way too interesting xd His story grew so out of proportion he is now an MC because I just couldn't keep pushing him to the background when he was so interesting.

In that sense, I think character and plot have to interact effectively. Everybody usually keeps talking about how important it is to have complex characters to go with your cool book plot; but what will you do with amazing MCs and a dull not-quite-even-an-adventure to reveal how truly amazing they are.

Gotta mix it up.

Rori wrote: "Adam wrote: "What's true for great, or good, movies is true for books, graphic novels, even record albums. Story is pretty much king. If the story isn't working, it doesn't matter how interesting t..."

Rori wrote: "Adam wrote: "What's true for great, or good, movies is true for books, graphic novels, even record albums. Story is pretty much king. If the story isn't working, it doesn't matter how interesting t..."

Yes, Rori, you're right about mixing it up. I guess the thing to do is take the amazing MC's and piece together a plot that matches the level of the dialogue. I do that a lot.

Deleted some comments. Please stay on topic and no negativity. The topic is whether you like to create characters first or plot first, not what TV shows and movies suck. Thanks.

For me, it is where the plot takes me that aids in the development of characters. I do start with an idea of the main characters, but the supporting cast materializes as I go. That's what works for me.

I would have to say plot first, a vivid scenario that is stuck in my head, that I haven't seen played out in a way that I would be interested in seeing. Then I merge that with conversations that are stuck in my head, and the characters get the dialogue that comes out of that.

Most of the time I start with a basic concept, and the world and characters form from that, then the actual story, which usually revolves around the characters, and they end up driving where the story goes. And even times where I try to start out with a story the characters end up taking it in an entirely different direction anyways so I just run with it.

I'm working on a series and I'd say the characters shaped up first and then they stole any thoughts I originally had for my story ;)

I wove my series around the lives of two sisters whom I knew in real life, however their actions drove the story. I also have a very interesting secondary character who was able to form a sub-plot that added depth to the story. In that way the plot and characters merged beautifully IMO.

Comments deleted.

Again, as I stated yesterday, stay on topic. This is not a place to rant about what you find "boring" in other people's books. Thanks.

J.D. wrote: "What do you think?

This is only a quick synopsis of an idea. "

I think it's off-topic and hijacking. If you have a thread in the showcase, that would be a better place to discuss your ideas for stories. If not, you can go check it out and set one up. Thanks.