Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

Freebies still work fairly well for increasing visibility, even though they live on a separate list. I don't know exactly what magic formula Amazon employs, but it makes your title much more likely to appear on someone's "recommended" feed.

Personally, I do well with them. I always get a bump. I only give away short stories, (and only my self-published titles) but I've found it to be a good strategy. There not the only ones I ever give away (and I have a couple of permanently free titles) but I have a short series of historicals. When I release a new one, it will be free for the five days, and subsequently .99 cents. I always sell a number after the free period, and it seems to be a great boost for the whole series.

One major advantage of "free" is that it encourages readers who might not buy it to take a chance on your book. That does increase your chances of poor reviews, but it's also a sure-fire way to increase your audience.

Now, I hate to be mean, but quality matters. Not that you need to be giving away War and Peace, but it should be decent.

I downloaded a little orgy of free and cheap titles off Amazon a couple of days ago. One, Conjuring the Shroud, while short, was utterly adorable, well written, succinct, etc. A couple of others were okay. One was so horrifically clunky that I will never read it in its entirety, and I intend to delete from my Kindle as soon as I remember to do so. Another was less stylistically deadly, but still not fabulous, and poorly edited. I'm going to leave it on there in case of utter boredom, but it's a good bet that I'll never be motivated to actually buy something from that writer.

D.C. wrote: "Freebies still work fairly well for increasing visibility, even though they live on a separate list. I don't know exactly what magic formula Amazon employs, but it makes your title much more likely..."

Yes, free or low-cost is a good lead-in for a series. We've used 99-cent lead-ins to good effect for John Bowers' Fighter Queen saga, Starport series, and Nick Walker series.

You can give away free stuff on Smashwords, but not on Amazon on a permanent basis. They'll "price match" to free ONLY if they decide to -- you can't bully them into it just by making it free elsewhere.

Still, it doesn't hurt to try. They have done that a number of times and yours might hit the right person at the right time.

Al wrote: "You can give away free stuff on Smashwords, but not on Amazon on a permanent basis. They'll "price match" to free ONLY if they decide to -- you can't bully them into it just by making it free elsewhere..."

Well...you can actually twist their arm. I had one free on Smashwords and elsewhere that amazon just wouldn't make free even though dozens of people had reported the lower price to them. I sent them an email requesting it and they made the change in about 8 hours.

So you can't bully them, but sometimes asking nicely is all it takes. ;D

Micah wrote: "Al wrote: "You can give away free stuff on Smashwords, but not on Amazon on a permanent basis. They'll "price match" to free ONLY if they decide to -- you can't bully them into it just by making it..."

Thanks! We tried that once, but it's worth trying again. We have a couple of short stories out that should be free (not worth 99-cents in today's market). They've been free on Smashwords, B&N, et al., but we've had trouble getting Amazon to lower the price. One, though complete in itself, is a lead-in to a series by Bruce Davis (The Profit Logbook series). The other is a story from a science fiction anthology of shorts (The Complete Alpha Dreamer).

Based on obtaining a "free book" on Amazon Kindle unlimited, I have now purchased over 30 books (that I have paid for)in both paperback and on Kindle from various authors because I enjoyed their work and referred it to others and/or left a review on Amazon and Goodreads. I have also downloaded numerous books for .99 up to 4.99 by reading reviews from those who have read the book.

There is an old saying: "You get what you pay for." Old sayings are old because they have been around for a very long time. They have been around for a very long time because they have, far more often than not, been proven correct.

Can something that is available for free be a good thing? Certainly; however one should always ask oneself: Why would anyone give something away for nothing if one were able to ask for and get a decent price for it?

Providing free samples of any product can be a very effective marketing tool, if done in moderation. Over utilization of this tactic can create an entitlement mentality among some consumers. They may eventually adopt a personal philosophy of "why pay anything for something you can get for nothing?". There are far more effective, proven marketing alternatives.

If you produce a good quality product, there will always be those who are willing to pay a fair price for it. Another old saying: "Anything worth doing is worth doing well".

Most independent and self-published authors simply don't know how to get money for their books. This does not make their work inferior. Many of the self-published books I've read and reviewed are superior to those coming out of the large publishing houses. Some people, like Angela, use freebies to test-drive new authors, and will buy their other books. Many, however, just download any freebie that looks interesting and don't even bother reading them. Thus my original contention that offering mass freebies may not be the most effective strategy for generating sales.
That said, we all want to have our stuff read, so there's nothing wrong with giving away books just so other people will read them.

I'm using staggered freebies of short prequels to my latest self-published novella as a promotion while the new one is available for pre-order with Amazon. We'll see how it goes.

This is a series that doesn't have a very broad appeal (inspirational m/m romance) so I'm hardly expecting it to take off, but I'm definitely giving away more copies of the first one that I did the last time it was free. I like making money, but I also very much want my voice to be heard.

With thousands of newly published books a month flooding the market, I don't think there are many honorable alternatives to lowering the price to zero, for a writer publishing his first work.

The Goodreads Giveaway program worked well for me, though it's not "free" - postage to India for one of my winners was $16! Goodreads predicted 40% would leave reviews, and that was just about right.

I am suspicious of the galaxy of 5-star reviews I see for unknown books. I know that reviewers are for hire, and friends can be enlisted to shill. I don't think that is ethical.

I am happy to have my book read, and I don't expect to sell a boatload of paperbacks. The e-book I have made available for free on obooko and free-ebooks, and I am content with whatever small percentage of the downloaders actually read it.

I realize that authors who make a living from their writing have different goals and priorities.

Joel, in post 58, you stated that "most self-published and independent authors simply don't know how to get money for their books" and that "...there's nothing wrong with giving away books just so other people will read them".

If that is true, then those to whom you refer chose to write and publish their work without expending the effort and time required to first learn the technical writing sills, narration techniques and marketing formats usually required to render a book commercially viable. Even if writing is just a self-gratifying hobby, I repeat the old saying: "Anything worth doing is worth doing well".

I am not implying that this is wrong. The intent of my original post (57) was to emphasize that constantly flooding an already saturated market with free product can negatively impact the efforts of those who may be attempting to establish a successful writing career.

For the record: this is not a self-serving rant. I am not one of those who are attempting to establish a successful writing career. I wrote just one novel five years ago because my late wife asked me to, and sent query letters to publishers only at the non-stop insistence and pleading of my adult children. It was published three years ago, and I have no intention or desire to ever write another. There are far too many other things to do and places to visit. That said; I must confess that the quarterly sales report and royalty check that accompanies it are welcome and appreciated.

Jim wrote: "Joel, in post 58, you stated that "most self-published and independent authors simply don't know how to get money for their books" and that "...there's nothing wrong with giving away books just so ..."

Not what I was saying at all. Writing quality books and knowing how to promote, market and sell them are entirely different skills. Not knowing how to get people to buy your book doesn't mean you lack the skills to write well.

Joel wrote: "Jim wrote: "Joel, in post 58, you stated that "most self-published and independent authors simply don't know how to get money for their books" and that "...there's nothing wrong with giving away bo..."

I apologize, Joel. I mis-read and, therefore, misunderstood your original post. However, I do stand by my belief that flooding an already saturated market with free product can negatively impact all participants.

I agree.

Joel wrote: "I agree."

Joel,

(Off-Topic): In your profile,I notice that you listed Groucho Marx as one of your influences. If you are not yet familiar with them, I thought you might enjoy these quotes; both attributed to Julius "Groucho" Marx (1890 - 1977).

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."

"I find television to be very educational. Whenever somebody turns it on, I go into the other room and read a book."

Whenever I read an impressive quote I add it to my collection.

Jim wrote: "Joel wrote: "Jim wrote: "Joel, in post 58, you stated that "most self-published and independent authors simply don't know how to get money for their books" and that "...there's nothing wrong with g..."

Only a) if the market was finite--which it isn't, since most avid readers are willing to consume more than they are willing to pay for and b)if the playing field were level and all of these books, both free and unfree, were of roughly the same quality and varied only in genre, length, etc.

In the real world, the market is heavily saturated with some things, so if I write a mediocre mystery novel and charge $9.99 or even $3.99 for it, I will probably find that readers can find a steady supply of mediocre mystery novels for free and mostly ignore mine. If I write a competent one, the equation changes. It changes even more if my novel is really remarkable.

And if I have a whole series of those competent or better novels, and I give the first one away free, I will win a bunch of readers who look at my books first when they are paying. This does give me, and my completely theoretical mystery novels, a strong competitive edge, but it doesn't "poison the market". They're never going to unless there's such a steady stream of quality freebies that no reader ever has to pay for a book. And even then, most readers are going to make exceptions for books they really want.

D.C. wrote: "If I write a competent one, the equation changes. It changes even more if my novel is really remarkable..."

But only if someone notices you in the first place.

Reference Moby Dick. Unpopular in its time but now considered an American classic. But only because it was rediscovered in the 1920s after almost 70 years of obscurity.

I'm not saying that FREE will make you get discovered (obviously that's not the case). Only that quality alone will not bring success either.

Goes without saying that quality is better than not, but often times greater success comes from greater hype than greater quality.

The sole\ value I can see for free promos is to have your book in the hands of readers who might leave you reviews on Amazon.

I have no idea of the correlarion between reviews and purchases, but logic dictates that this must one of the key differentiators for new readers selecting their next read.

I usd freebies for my first three bok, but will stick with Countdown promos from now on.

Does anyone have any evidence that an active social media strategy increases sales? I have doneprety much nothing on this front so far.

This is purely anecdotal, but I find that being active on Facebook seems to do something for my sales, etc. I have not noticed the same effect with Twitter. Of course there's quality out there that doesn't get noticed (and some things that have marketplace merit aren't what anyone would really describe as quality), but Moby Dick is not a great example, because it's very much not a book with broadbased appeal (and wasn't a free promo).

The point of the freebie isn't really reviews, which I think are overrated as a sales mechanism, and may not be that great because the freebie will broaden your audience to include people who might not usually read your book (and some of them won't like it). However, some of that broader audience may become regular readers, and it also influences your standing in Amazon's algorithms, so that your book ends up in front of more people.

However, at risk of sounding mean, a writer's social media presence should be reasonably typo-free.

Scott wrote: "The sole\ value I can see for free promos is to have your book in the hands of readers who might leave you reviews on Amazon.

I have no idea of the correlarion between reviews and purchases, but l..."

Scott,

To answer your question, at least in my case, active participation in discussion groups of literary websites has resulted in some sales; however, they represent only a very small fraction of a percentage of total sales.

Live personal appearances at book stores, public libraries, literary festivals, and book clubs; prepared to deliver a well-rehearsed presentation, with book-signing pen in-hand, have proven to be far more effective in generating sales; particularly of the paperback format.

It is important to remember that socializing on-line and real-world socializing are different. There is a feeling of personal identification with or being able to relate to a live person, standing right in front of you, that usually isn't quite as achievable in a virtual setting.