Reading the 20th Century discussion

Yes, Pamela, we're sort of reading them in tandem with an 'official' start date for both of 15 November. A few of us have already started discussing the Titanic and are keen to read about the Lusitania while it's fresh in our heads. At least we don't have to worry about spoilers for either ;)

Great thanks. Just wanted to make sure I hadn’t missed the boat (groan, sorry!)

Ha ha! No, welcome aboard, Pamela ;)

Would anyone else be interested in joining me and Susan in a buddy read of Empire of Pain: The Secret History of the Sackler Dynasty by Patrick Radden Keefe from the Baillie Gifford shortlist for non-fiction? We're thinking about February or March 2022 so post here and let us know if either month is preferable.

"The highly anticipated portrait of three generations of the Sackler family, by the prize-winning, bestselling author of Say Nothing.

The Sackler name adorns the walls of many storied institutions: Harvard, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Oxford, the Louvre. They are one of the richest families in the world, known for their lavish donations to the arts and sciences. The source of the family fortune was vague, however, until it emerged that the Sacklers were responsible for making and marketing OxyContin, a blockbuster painkiller that was a catalyst for the opioid crisis.

Empire of Pain is a masterpiece of narrative reporting and writing, exhaustively documented and ferociously compelling."

Didn't realise he wrote Say Nothing. That bodes well, as I thought it was a really compelling read.

Say Nothing was remarkable

Me too, it's rare for me to find non-fiction unputdownable but Say Nothing was one I couldn't stop reading. Looking forward to Empire.

Are you tempted, Nigeyb?

Not really. I'm sure it's great but the subject is less interesting to me than his Troubles book

This is a book I’ve wanted an excuse to read (and in 2022 to up my non- fiction reading)

Hurrah, Jonathan! Nigeyb, I think the discussion will be interesting, so pop in, whether you read or not.

Yes, delighted you'll be joining us Jonathan :) Shall we say mid February 2022? I'll set up, can always change the date should anyone have a problem.

Susan is our group fan of non-fiction and have to say I've become a convert as we've read some fascinating books.

I do love non-fiction, although I always seem to be reading more fiction. Still, I normally do have a non-fiction book on the go - at the moment it is The Glamour Boys: The Secret Story of the Rebels who Fought for Britain to Defeat Hitler

Jonathan wrote: "This is a book I’ve wanted an excuse to read (and in 2022 to up my non- fiction reading)"

That's a good resolution to increase non-fiction reading, Jonathan - I nearly always enjoy it when I do it, especially if it's a buddy read, but my TBR tends to be filled with fiction. One non-fiction I do want to read is The Burgundians: A Vanished Empire which has had excellent reviews.

We've decided to buddy read Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov in May next year, as a follow-up to his Laughter in the Dark (December 2021) - everyone welcome as always :)

Susan and I have agreed to buddy read Every Man for Himself by Beryl Bainbridge in March 2022 - this is a fictional follow-up to some of the Titanic and other shipping disaster books we've been reading this year - do join us if you're tempted.

If ever a subject and a writer were perfectly matched it is here. The fated voyage of the Titanic, with its heroics and horror, has been dramatized many times before, but never by an artist with the skills and sensibility of Beryl Bainbridge. Bainbridge vividly recreates each scene of the voyage, from the suspicious fire in the Number 10 coal bunker, to the champagne and crystal of the first-class public rooms, to that terrible midnight chaos in the frigid North Atlantic. This is remarkable, haunting tale substantiates Bainbridge as a consummate observer of the human condition.

Booker Prize Nominee (1996), Orange Prize Nominee for Fiction Longlist (1997), Whitbread Award for Novel (1996), Los Angeles Times Book Prize Nominee for Fiction (1996), Commonwealth Writers' Prize for Best Book in South Asia and Europe (1997)... and my first Beryl Bainbridge :)

Alwynne and I are talking about a buddy read of Ulysses by James Joyce in 2022, do shout if you're interested in joining us. I'm copying our post below:

Alwynne wrote: "And if the Joyce read goes ahead you can count me in"

Hurrah, happy to make that happen, Alwynne - we only need two for a buddy read, and others may join us.

I've only read selected 'episodes' of Ulysses at 18 and I was too impatient to engage with it then even though I loved Joyce's writing. I think we might well have different ranges of references to bring to our reading so that could be immensely productive.

Any preference for dates? Looking at the group schedule, we could start March (two short buddies already agreed), April or May (Lolita agreed). I'm thinking it's maybe worth doing a slow read so that we have time to unpack the chapters as we go - if you like that approach, I can put together a schedule as we did with Petersburg and The Magic Mountain?

Anyone else interested in joining us?

Literature, as Joyce tells us through the character of Stephen Dedalus, 'is the eternal affirmation of the spirit of man'. Written over a seven-year period, from 1914 to 1921, Ulysses has survived bowderlization, legal action and bitter controversy. An undisputed modernist classic, its ceaseless verbal inventiveness and astonishingly wide-ranging allusions confirm its standing as an imperishable monument to the human condition. Declan Kiberd says in his introduction Ulysses is 'An endlessly open book of utopian epiphanies. It holds a mirror up to the colonial capital that was Dublin on 16 June 1904, but it also offers redemptive glimpses of a future world which might be made over in terms of those utopian moments.'

I did once try Ulysses and really failed to connect with it, but it is one of those novels you feel you should read... I might try, but you would have to forgive me if I give up again!

Brilliant RC, thanks so much for following up. I'm flexible about dates, but a schedule sounds like a sensible approach to this one, so great, if you don't mind. I have a fairly recent Penguin edition, I bought it intending to re-read it and then never got around to it.

Yes, that's how I feel, too, Susan, it's like a big gap in my reading - I'd love to have you join us, and if it doesn't work, that's fine too, no pressure in our lovely group :))

Absolutely, so much with a novel like this is timing, it might work for you this time round Susan or it might not, and either way it'd be great to have your thoughts.

Do you have this edition, Alwynne? , pub. 2000. I'm just going out (booster jab!) and thought I'd pop into Waterstones and treat myself to a new edition in preparation.

Yes that's the one, at the time there didn't seem to be much else around. Good luck with the jab.

It's quite light so if we hate it we can throw it out of the window, like the French typists who transcribed the original! There's a completely hilarious account of it in a book I read about Sylvia Beach - which I recommend - Sylvia Beach and the Lost Generation: A History of Literary Paris in the Twenties and Thirties

Roman Clodia wrote: "Do you have this edition, Alwynne? , pub. 2000. I'm just going out (booster jab!) and thought I'd pop into Waterstones and treat myself to a new edition in preparation."

But if you see an edition you think is better than get that and I'll get hold of the same one later.

I will join for Ulysses in 2022. This will be my third and last attempt to finish it, I am quite determined to read it till end this time.

Good luck


I've tried before and did not enjoy the experience, so am not inclined to try again. Much admiration for anyone who succeeds in reading it.

I would love to do a slow read of Ulysses.

Great, Ben and Nidhi, think this is one that will really benefit from lots of different perspectives.

That Sylvia Beach book looks excellent - I love this period in Paris for writers and artists - but it's out of print so one to look out for second hand - I do have Beach's own Shakespeare and Company which I've dipped in to but haven't read yet.

Ben wrote: "I would love to do a slow read of Ulysses."

How slow is slow for everyone? There are 18 chapters so we could do a chapter a week, starting 1 March 2022 which will take us through to the end of June, just after Bloomsday which is 16 June.

Too fast? Too slow? There's a lot to unpack from what I remember of Joyce between classical and other literary allusions and Irish culture and politics. And taking it at this pace means we'll all have time to read other books at the same time.

Let me know what you think and feel free to offer alternative timings till we find one we can all agree on.

I went for the 2000 Penguin edition but it only has an introduction, no notes so might get a scholarly edition from the library once we start reading.

This looks good: The Most Dangerous Book: The Battle for James Joyce's Ulysses as an introduction to Joyce and the book itself with its controversies, trials and publishing history - great ratings on here.

And I've been meaning to get to Mad, Bad, Dangerous to Know: The Fathers of Wilde, Yeats and Joyce by Colm Tóibín.

I think it’s fine, 1 week per chapter, we will have time to refer other related books and online material which I am always told is indispensable for reading Ulysses.

I took a college class on James Joyce for the main purpose of helping me read Ulysses. The professor had us read a chapter of the book along with the corresponding chapter in The Odyssey per class. My memory is that it took 9 weeks for the read of the 2 books. We read the Dubliners and Portrait during the first 6 weeks of the 15 week semester. We never got to Finnegan's Wake, which I then attempted to read on my own and did not get very far before deciding it was beyond me.
Reading the Homer in tandem and having the classroom discussion made the novel relatively comprehensible. I would agree with Nidhi on the value of using other sources.
I have never re-read it and probably never will as I doubt it will be as easy reading it outside of the class structure. So, one clear and understandable read of it during my lifetime is enough.

That makes sense, I'm trying to decide whether to go all in and re-read 'The Odyssey', 'Portrait' and 'Dubliners'. I was given the new-ish Emily Wilson translation so might be a good time to try it.

A chapter a week's fine with me, and thanks for the book rec. R. C. will check that one out.

I will be brave and try again then. Hopefully, you will help illuminate things for me!

Mind you, sometimes books/authors people say are difficult, I love. Judy inspired me to try Proust and I adored it/him, so I will give it a go.

I do like that we are so non-judgmental and that I feel I can say, help, I don't understand anything, if, as I suspect, that will be the case!

The Penguin edition is just £1.99 on kindle at the moment, which seems very reasonable.

Alwynne wrote: "That makes sense, I'm trying to decide whether to go all in and re-read 'The Odyssey', 'Portrait' and 'Dubliners'. I was given the new-ish Emily Wilson translation so might be a good time to try it."

I'd like to reread Portrait for the introduction to Stephen Dedalus, who is one of the characters in Ulysses - I read it at school but literally remember nothing!

I haven't read the Wilson translation so would be interested to hear what you think, Alwynne. I'm not convinced by the idea of it being a feminist take on Homer who already has lots of strong and powerful female figures in his poems, as well as enslaved and oppressed women, of course. But a fresh take is always worth reading.

Susan wrote: "I will be brave and try again then. Hopefully, you will help illuminate things for me!

Mind you, sometimes books/authors people say are difficult, I love."

Also Mann's The Magic Mountain which I got so much more from discussing it as a buddy read. We'll all be on the Joyce journey together :)

That's an excellent price for the Penguin Kindle, I might get that as well for when I can't be bothered to carry the paperback around with me or for reading in bed.

Not sure I am ready to reread Ulysses yet. I enjoyed it but opted to go with the flow rather than chasing up every reference...

I may try this too if I’m in the mood when it comes around. I think a slow pace is a good idea, yes. I haven’t read The Odyssey - would that be a hindrance? Probably. I spose I’d have to read that too..

Knowing at least the outline of The Odyssey helps as Joyce uses its structure and versions of events/characters in it all the way through. So a version of Cyclops etc...And figures from 'Dubliners' and notably 'Portrait' resurface in this too.

Thanks Alwynne.
So I’d have to add The Odyssey and The Dubliners to the to read pile.. A least the latter is only about 200 pages.
Looking up Ulysses on GR I see 9 of the people I follow have read it, 1 person defeated by it. Their ratings:
5 people - 5*
3-3*
1-1*
Hmm.

Kit wrote: "Thanks Alwynne.
So I’d have to add The Odyssey and The Dubliners to the to read pile.. A least the latter is only about 200 pages.
Looking up Ulysses on GR I see 9 of the people I follow have read..."

You could skip Dubliners, although they're great stories, particularly 'The Dead' which is wonderful imo anyway, although don't think anyone from that features in 'Ulysses' see my comments on the Ulysses thread.

Oh, it is beginning to sound a bit daunting now. My son has been studying The Odyssey this term, but I haven't read it cover to cover.

Susan, I think just have the book, check the Wikipedia entries or similar for things like The Odyssey and take it from there. I don't want to read too much around it or I'll just end up being too swayed by 'official' interpretations. I didn't do any research when I first read it and still had an okay time with it. Plus if loads of other people have read extra stuff can just ask them about anything that doesn't make sense, that's one of the things that's so great about buddy reads.

The Odyssey (Penguin Classics edition) is 99p on kindle at the moment if anyone does feel like it.

Alwynne wrote: "Susan, I think just have the book, check the Wikipedia entries or similar for things like The Odyssey and take it from there."

I agree with Alwynne, this is a fun read, not a college project ;) Wiki is fine and I'm pretty familiar with the Odyssey so happy to share. Joyce is as interested in Irish politics and culture as in Homer! Books like this work on all kinds of levels (as did Petersburg, The Magic Mountain) and we can each decide how much we want to delve beneath the story. Molly Bloom's final monologue, for example, is just a fantastic piece of writing.

Exactly R C, I sometimes enjoy reading around things, and this gives me an excuse to read/re-visit some books I've wanted to tackle anyway. But it's in no way needed and I may not get around to them anyway!

I'm a maybe for now - this is a great idea for a book to tackle in the new year, and I've been vaguely meaning to read Ulysses for decades, but it does look dauntingly huge.