Reading the Chunksters discussion

you know it might be hard to take all of this seriously if you didn't live in a whaling village:

Orson Welles in John Huston's movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mog0W...

Some wonderful alliteration in the description of The Pequod:

"her masts stood stiffly up like the spines"
"decks were worn and wrinkled"
"like any barbaric Ethiopian emperor, his neck heavy with pendants of polished ivory"
"a cannibal of a craft"

Dianne wrote: "Is anyone listening to this on audiobook? I'm curious if that (or the movie) does the sermon justice."

I am, alongside the book, but the reader's not particularly sensitive to the humour and no, I don't think did the sermon justice. To be fair, I'm not an especially good listener and with a book as rich and dense as this, it's too easy to miss things that I only pick up when reading.

Christopher wrote: "Sorry, we need a better picture of Queequeg:

"

Yes, thank you! New Bedford is so close to where I live. I just found out there is an annual Moby Dick reading marathon at the Whaling Museum. This year it will start tomorrow. I imagine with our snow storm still raging, it may have to be postponed. You can also watch a live webcast: https://www.whalingmuseum.org/program...

Oh my gosh Michelle that is fantastic. Thanks for sharing that link.

Amanda wrote: "Oh my gosh Michelle that is fantastic. Thanks for sharing that link."
You are very welcome. It looks like a fun few days of activities. Maybe next year!

Christopher wrote: "Orson Welles in John Huston's movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mog0W...

"

that one is even scarier!

Andrea wrote: "Some wonderful alliteration in the description of The Pequod:

"her masts stood stiffly up like the spines"
"decks were worn and wrinkled"
"like any barbaric Ethiopian emperor, his neck heavy with..."

thanks for collecting and sharing Andrea!

Roman Clodia wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Is anyone listening to this on audiobook? I'm curious if that (or the movie) does the sermon justice."

I am, alongside the book, but the reader's not particularly sensitive to the h..."

I actually think I need to read this on paper. It's too dense. I find myself re-reading section of the page I just read, and I never do that. Is anyone else doing that?

MichelleCH wrote: "Christopher wrote: "Sorry, we need a better picture of Queequeg:

"

Yes, thank you! New Bedford is so close to where I live. I just found out there is an annual Moby Dick reading marathon at the W..."


I agree with Amanda, thanks for sharing Michelle! This is fascinating to see how this book has resonated over time.

Nice little touch in Ch 3 where the locals call the barman Jonah because the bar is shaped like a whales jaw and he appears to live in the whales mouth!

Paula wrote: "Ok - Sorry, this comment is running long, but I have to talk about the Sermon, which I've always heard was a stopping point in Moby Dick because it was so boring.

Oh my gosh, I loved it!"

I agree that it was a highlight of these first chapters. It seemed to me admirably suited to his audience and the risks and rewards which the whaling community faced.

Dianne wrote: "is anyone listening to this on audiobook? I'm curious if that (or the movie) does the sermon justice. ."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb-g4...

Edit: I see others also posted this movie segment of the sermon. Great minds ....

Harold Bloom on Moby Dick.

He claims that Melville and Whitman are the two most important figures in our national literature, the other possible candidates include Emily Dickinson, Wallace Stevens, Hart Crane, or Robert Frost.

He contends that Moby Dick is not a novel, but is a "prose epic," it's a giant Shakespearean prose poem, "quite deliberately." He calls MD "almost flawless."

There's more if you care to listen to the interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFt59...

Everyman wrote: "Harold Bloom on Moby Dick.

He claims that Melville and Whitman are the two most important figures in our national literature, the other possible candidates include Emily Dickinson, Wallace Steven..."

And Mark Twain is where? In the wastebasket.
I'm sorry. I apologize. I didn't know we were talking about poets. Never got into Whitman. Love Emily and a bit of Frost. Never read a word of the other two. My bad.
I see now. It was the phrase our national literature threw me off. Thought of literature as more inclusive. Didn't even know the Stevens guy and the Crane guy were poets. My bad, again. Enough.

Everyman wrote: "Harold Bloom on Moby Dick.

He claims that Melville and Whitman are the two most important figures in our national literature, the other possible candidates include Emily Dickinson, Wallace Steven..."

I'm trying not to read too far ahead (almost finished next week's reading), which gives me the opportunity to circle back and reread the current chapters. What a pleasure it is to do that. Melville has a masterful touch; his range is so broad. Sometimes majestic, other times there is that light, deft touch where the humor shines. And always, you sense he is totally in control; that this book is his ship, and that, at all times he is the able captain guiding us through the story.

I know I'm gushing, but I am in awe of what he created.

I love Dickinson and the raw, elemental works of Whitman. I haven't read Crane (my father loved his work) or Stevens. I need to.

Paula wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Harold Bloom on Moby Dick.

He claims that Melville and Whitman are the two most important figures in our national literature, the other possible candidates include Emily Dickinso..."

It's just so much fun to watch someone read one of your favorite books and listen to them enjoy it for the same reasons you do. Yes, Melville seems to have placed every word down with the confidence of a master-builder, knowing all along exactly how it would look when he was done! - )

Chapters 10 & 11

These two simple chapters are perfect examples of why rereading is a benefit. It's so easy to read them quickly and, yes, we see those little details that are so easy to find, but we are bent on continuing the journey, and don't get the opportunity to go back and mull them over. It's why reading in a group reaps such extra benefits for me.

Anyway,

These two chapters touched my heart. They are filled with quiet moments, giving Ishmael the chance to relax and ponder, but mostly - just relax and be at peace with himself. It's not until Chapter 10 that I fully realized how tense this poor man has been; not only once he arrived at the beginning of our story, but much further back.

He goes back to the Inn, to find Queequeg whittling away at his idol, then counting pages from a book, stopping every 50 pages to voice a reaction.

Ishmael watches all of this, yes, in fascination, but his reactions are just so very calm and relaxed. It's as if he is finally able to release a breath he's been holding in for who knows how long.

He watches Queequeg, and his eyes begin to see past the outer markings, so foreign to Ishmael. They just fall away. And he, for the first time, really "sees" Queequeg, and he realizes: "You cannot hide the soul."

He sees a "simple honest heart", "a spirit that would dare a thousand devils" and a "lofty bearing".

And then we get some of Melville's wonderful, adept humor with the following description of Queequeg's head:

"It may seem ridiculous, but it reminded me of General Washington's head".

And even better:

"Queequeg was George Washington cannibalistically developed.".

Gosh, that is such perfect humor!

And from there, Melville takes us into some incredibly beautiful prose:

"As I sat there in that now lonely room; the fire burning low in that mild stage when, after its first intensity has warmed the air, it then only glows to be looked at; the evening shades and phantoms gathering round the casements, and peering in upon us silent, solitary twain; the storm booming without in solemn swells; I began to be sensible of strange feelings. I felt a melting in me.".

"I felt a melting in me.". At last, Ishmael finally exhales that long-held breath and becomes more of himself again.

At last, at last, he has a friend. It is with this paragraph that we know that it has been a very long time since Ishmael has had a friend. Maybe ever?

I found this whole passage very moving.

But Melville, master that he is, doesn't milk that moment; instead, he moves on and gives us a touch of humor.

"He made me a present of his embalmed head."

And then some further reflection on what is worship and what is truly the will of God. One wonders how well received was Melville's commentaries on practicing tolerance for thy fellow man.

In Chapter 11, we have the bedroom scene, or what I'm starting to call the "sleepover scene". I love the atmosphere...Ishmael and Queequeg snug in bed, knees drawn up (a position most of us have assumed at night, snug under the bedcovers). They stay up most of the night, just enjoying their company, then sharing a pipe.

I loved how Melville described how we cannot really understand a quality without having had experienced its opposite; for example, we cannot truly understand happiness without having experienced sadness. Here, he uses the cold of the room contrasted with the calming, snug warmth of the bed.

And then, he throws in another lovely line:

"Then there you lie like the one warm spark in the heart of an arctic crystal.".

How beautiful this one, single sentence.

I'm treasuring this read.

Mark wrote: "Paula wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Harold Bloom on Moby Dick.

He claims that Melville and Whitman are the two most important figures in our national literature, the other possible candidates include ..."

Hi Mark,

Thanks. I am reading this book with such a sense of discovery...being in the hands of a true master.

Paula wrote: "Mark wrote: "Paula wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Harold Bloom on Moby Dick.

He claims that Melville and Whitman are the two most important figures in our national literature, the other possible candid..."

Welcome. It's a good book. Glad you are enjoying it. - )

The part of these chapters that I liked the most was the relationship between Ismael and Queequeg. They both seem like such “good” people. Ismael accepting Q’s religion—how refreshing. And then Q’s reaction to people laughing at him and most amazing jumping into freezing water to save the boy.

One part I wondered about was why Ismael assumed Q was a cannibal.

Peg wrote: "One part I wondered about was why Ismael assumed Q was a cannabul"

I believe that's because at the time all people that came from so-called "uncivilised" world with tribal culture were considered cannibals.

I've read an interesting story somewhere (it was either in Cannibalism: A Perfectly Natural History or A History of Canada in Ten Maps: Epic Stories of Charting a Mysterious Land) that illustrates well how these misunderstandings came into play every day. When white colonialists came to a particular island off the coast of British Columbia, they were greeted by the local population with gifts of human limbs as a token of goodwill. The colonialists naturally assumed that the natives were cannibals and were sharing their meal with them. It turns out the locals thought their guests barbaric cannibals and were trying to appease their unusual appetites. Maybe it's in human nature to attribute cannibalistic tendencies to others to further remove them from our own culture, and make them as foreign as possible.

I am reading a Norton Critical Edition. My wife won't share her Everyman.

Chapter 11
Nightgown

"Be it said, that though I had felt such a strong repugnance to his smoking in the bed the night before, yet see how elastic our stiff prejudices grow when love once comes to bend them." (55)

I apologize for any indifference I may have shown to Mr. Bloom's remarks posted by Everyman about the poetry he sees in Melville's prose. - )

Dianne wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Is anyone listening to this on audiobook? I'm curious if that (or the movie) does the sermon justice."

I am, alongside the book, but the reader's not particular..."
Yes, I have been. Each paragraph is just so rich.

Today I listened to the Librovox's audiobook version going back a few chapters and it was really helpful. The reading of "The Prophet" and the next few chapters is excellent. I may go back and listen to the sermon too.

MichelleCH wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Is anyone listening to this on audiobook? I'm curious if that (or the movie) does the sermon justice."

I am, alongside the book, but the reader's..."

Thanks for the tip Michelle! I think this is a book that I would enjoy listening to in addition to reading the text.

Everyman wrote: "Harold Bloom on Moby Dick.

He claims that Melville and Whitman are the two most important figures in our national literature, the other possible candidates include Emily Dickinson, Wallace Steven..."

Thanks for this! Doesn't it make you want to read all about Melville? Every time I adore an author I want to read all about them. I want to learn how their minds work(ed), and what influence(d) them.

Mark wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Harold Bloom on Moby Dick.

He claims that Melville and Whitman are the two most important figures in our national literature, the other possible candidates include Emily Dickinso..."

I've never read much poetry. I feel guilty about that. Why do I? I don't know. Is it in a separate class from prose ?

Paula wrote: "Chapters 10 & 11

These two simple chapters are perfect examples of why rereading is a benefit. It's so easy to read them quickly and, yes, we see those little details that are so easy to find, but..."

the sleepover.. this sounds weird, but can't you almost feel like you were there? And you can sense the true kinship, the camaraderie? Really amazing writing.

Peg wrote: "The part of these chapters that I liked the most was the relationship between Ismael and Queequeg. They both seem like such “good” people. Ismael accepting Q’s religion—how refreshing. And then Q’s..."

I think that's exactly right Peg - they are both portrayed as 'good' people despite their totally different backgrounds and beliefs. And Melville makes it totally believable.

Peg wrote: "One part I wondered about was why Ismael assumed Q was a cannibal. "

Thank you for asking that. I had been wondering the same thing!

Linda wrote: "Peg wrote: "One part I wondered about was why Ismael assumed Q was a cannibal. "

Thank you for asking that. I had been wondering the same thing!"

Is it because he was peddling shrunken heads? Is it a fair assumption to make when he knew nothing more about Q to think he got the heads from people his tribe had killed and eaten? Seems to me not an unreasonable assumption to have made on first encountering Q, even though we soon find out how civilized he actually is (though I still wonder how civilized it is to peddle shrunken heads around town).

Everyman wrote: "Is it because he was peddling shrunken heads? Is it a fair assumption to make when he knew nothing more about Q to think he got the heads from people his tribe had killed and eaten?"

Oh yes, the shrunken heads! I guess my mind wanted to forget about that detail. Yes, it does get one wondering where those heads came from.

My grandfather was in the import business and he imported shrunken heads as well as other things. They were and probably still are a curiosity. I never thought that someone had to be a cannibal in order to have a shrunken head; couldn’t the folks making them just use dead people’s heads?

Peg wrote: "My grandfather was in the import business and he imported shrunken heads as well as other things. They were and probably still are a curiosity. I never thought that someone had to be a cannibal in ..."

I think you can make a shrunken head with an apple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FDVi...

(Don't ask me how I know this... childhood memory, I guess)

Just got started here, read about 8 chapters. sorry I'm a bit slow, too much chocolate during the festive period, I think.

Anyway, I am relishing Melville's language, wonderful words like skrimshander and glim, and his descriptions of characters like Father Mapple.

Ishmael is intriguing, the loner, melancholy and isolated, believing it is his fate to go on the whaling voyage. And of course the colourful Queequeg with his tattoos and his shrunken heads is so memorable, but so too were those pitiful epitaphs in the church.

Brilliant so far, I will now go and read the rest of the chapters for week 1...

Apropos of the shrunken heads, I remember reading elsewhere that they were often used as part of a religious ritual. However, if Queequeg is selling them, then presumably his own rituals don't need them. He uses the ebony figure instead (which Ishmael assumed was a baby!) and ships biscuit as an offering.

So Queequeg is not so much a savage engaged in making "shrunken heads", but more an entrepreneur, importing and retailing them.

"he bought up a lot of 'embalmed New Zealand heads (great curios, you know)" (26)

3 -- The Spouter-Inn

Good point, Mark - and surely that entrepreneurial, capitalist spirit makes Q more American than 'savage'.

Absolutely, although the distinction doesn't seem to matter to Ishmael, who feels the selling of heads is still "cannibal business".

16 -- The Ship

"'Twas a foolish, ignorant whim of his crazy, widowed mother, who died when he was only a twelvemonth old." (77)

So besides the narrator we have met two kings: Queequeg, the son of a "cannibal" king, and Ahab, an orphan with the name of a "biblical" king.

16 -- The Ship

"So good-bye to thee--and wrong not Captain Ahab, because he happens to have a wicked name. Besides, my boy, he has a wife--not three voyages wedded--a sweet, resigned girl. Think of that; by that sweet girl that old man has a child: hold ye then there can be any utter, hopeless harm in Ahab? No. no my lad; stricken, blasted, if he be, Ahab has his humanities!" (77)
(...)
"However, my thoughts were at length carried in other directions, so that for the present dark Ahab slipped my mind." (77)

End of 16.

What a double act Peleg and Bildad are, I wonder how many times they have carried out that conversation to fix the pay as low as possible?

Intrigued by Peleg's description of Ahab, "a grand, ungodly, god-like man". So he is like a god, but not in the sense of conventional religion, and he bears the name of a 'wicked king'. Sounds like he is worth waiting for...

Linda wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Is it because he was peddling shrunken heads? Is it a fair assumption to make when he knew nothing more about Q to think he got the heads from people his tribe had killed and eaten..."

but everybody peddles shrunken heads! come on! It was like Coach bags in the day! right?? ;)

Peg wrote: "My grandfather was in the import business and he imported shrunken heads as well as other things. They were and probably still are a curiosity. I never thought that someone had to be a cannibal in ..."

this is so fascinating Peg! What else were hot imports that he dealt with?

Christopher wrote: "Peg wrote: "My grandfather was in the import business and he imported shrunken heads as well as other things. They were and probably still are a curiosity. I never thought that someone had to be a ..."

I have no words.

Pamela wrote: "Just got started here, read about 8 chapters. sorry I'm a bit slow, too much chocolate during the festive period, I think.

Anyway, I am relishing Melville's language, wonderful words like skrimsha..."

chocolate and melville. hmmm priorities priorities. I would vote to eat chocolate while reading melville. :)

Mark wrote: "16 -- The Ship

"So good-bye to thee--and wrong not Captain Ahab, because he happens to have a wicked name. Besides, my boy, he has a wife--not three voyages wedded--a sweet, resigned girl. Think o..."

the reference to Ahab's wife and child struck a wrong note with me. Why was that mentioned? to make him sound real, like a human? to soften his reputation? to make him less scary?

Pamela wrote: "What a double act Peleg and Bildad are, I wonder how many times they have carried out that conversation to fix the pay as low as possible?

Intrigued by Peleg's description of Ahab, "a grand, ungo..."

I loved that line - ungodly, god-like. What do you suppose that meant? All powerful but evil?

Dianne wrote: "What do you suppose that meant? All powerful but evil?"

I took him to be ungodly because he does not follow a god, maybe does not even acknowledge the existence of God, he puts himself up as the supreme authority and controls the ship like a god, with everyone following his will.