Reading the Chunksters discussion

Dianne wrote: "Pamela wrote: "What a double act Peleg and Bildad are, I wonder how many times they have carried out that conversation to fix the pay as low as possible?

Intrigued by Peleg's description of Ahab,..."

I wondered if it went back to the sermon in the chapel; that Ahab is not interested in what God wants and is like Jonah, set on getting his own way. He has therefore set himself up as God.

Dianne wrote: "Mark wrote: "16 -- The Ship

"So good-bye to thee--and wrong not Captain Ahab, because he happens to have a wicked name. Besides, my boy, he has a wife--not three voyages wedded--a sweet, resigned ..."

Yes. Exactly. Why was it done? I have the same question.

Pamela wrote: "Dianne wrote: "What do you suppose that meant? All powerful but evil?"

I took him to be ungodly because he does not follow a god, maybe does not even acknowledge the existence of God, he puts hims..."

I wonder if we will learn more about whether Ahab believes in a God later in the book. I don't remember!

Tracey wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Pamela wrote: "What a double act Peleg and Bildad are, I wonder how many times they have carried out that conversation to fix the pay as low as possible?

Intrigued by Peleg's descr..."

True - he has a monomania and does not care about what God, or mankind, thinks about his agenda.

Mark wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Mark wrote: "16 -- The Ship

"So good-bye to thee--and wrong not Captain Ahab, because he happens to have a wicked name. Besides, my boy, he has a wife--not three voyages wedded--a s..."

If it was an attempt to humanize him, I don't think it succeeds. Perhaps it was meant to be a failed attempt!

Dianne wrote: "Mark wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Mark wrote: "16 -- The Ship

"So good-bye to thee--and wrong not Captain Ahab, because he happens to have a wicked name. Besides, my boy, he has a wife--not three voyage..."

I think I have some small sympathy for him because of the mention of his family. The narrator has painted the captain as weird but not necessarily evil at this point. - )

Doesn't the author somewhere briefly discuss the irony of the Quakers being pacifists, while also being engaged in a most brutal and violent business of slaughtering whales? Doesn't this also give him a chance to juxtapose the savagery of the tattooed islanders with the savagery of the Nantucketers?

I'm only just now finishing these chapters and was trying to read through all of these great comments but there are so many!

I, like many of you, have absolutely no idea why I haven't picked this book up before! I'm really enjoying the characters and love that a friendship has developed between Queequeg and Ishmael. Definitely interested in seeing where this story goes.

I just finished the next section, but I wanted to come back to this first section and pull a quote that saddened me for what I suspect is to come, especially given that I’ve taken a liking to Queequeg. At the end of chapter 13 after Q saves the boy, Ishmael says

From that hour I clove to Queegueg like a barnacle; yea, till poor Queegueg took his last long dive.

Now, I know this is a classic and as such, I am guessing that even people who have not read this know the ending. I realized, though, that I suspect the ending but I don’t actually know for sure. Anyway, I started wondering about the fate of Ishmael since he is telling the story. I assumed a fatal end for all on board, but perhaps that is not the case? Unless we get a change of narrator at the end?

One of the funny bits I liked was the chowder scene in chapter 15 when Ishmael “tests out” calling into the kitchen for more chowder. I love these little humorous bits.

Yes. There are a lot of ominous foreshadowings early in the book.
And I agree being famous does make the story much more well known. - )

Linda wrote: "From that hour I clove to Queegueg like a barnacle; yea, till poor Queegueg took his last long dive."

Yes, I didn't know the ending and this line certainly adds a dark edge to what is to come. It also reminds us that Ishmael is looking back on this friendship from some time in the future when it has been lost, and adds an elegiac air to the affection and humour.

Mark wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Mark wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Mark wrote: "16 -- The Ship

"So good-bye to thee--and wrong not Captain Ahab, because he happens to have a wicked name. Besides, my boy, he has a wife--n..."
\
I keep forgetting that since I have read the book before. But still I bet even those who haven't read this book 'KNOW' that Ahab is the bad guy, right?

Mark wrote: "Doesn't the author somewhere briefly discuss the irony of the Quakers being pacifists, while also being engaged in a most brutal and violent business of slaughtering whales? Doesn't this also give ..."

agree

Tanya wrote: "I'm only just now finishing these chapters and was trying to read through all of these great comments but there are so many!

I, like many of you, have absolutely no idea why I haven't picked this..."

Glad you are joining Tanya! You don't have to read everything, feel free to just share your own thoughts whenever you'd like!

Mark wrote: "Yes. There are a lot of ominous foreshadowings early in the book.
And I agree being famous does make the story much more well known. - )"

Linda/Mark - yes this part actually really annoyed me. I don't WANT to hear about Queequeg's last long dive! Why did Melville spoil it for us?

Dianne wrote: "Mark wrote: "Doesn't the author somewhere briefly discuss the irony of the Quakers being pacifists, while also being engaged in a most brutal and violent business of slaughtering whales? Doesn't th..."

- )

Dianne wrote: "Mark wrote: "Yes. There are a lot of ominous foreshadowings early in the book.
And I agree being famous does make the story much more well known. - )"

Linda/Mark - yes this part actually really a..."

IMHO, there are two overlapping issues in play here. If we only had the line pointed to by Linda we might surmise something will happen to Queequeg, which should not be surprising to any reader being that there's still 500 pages to go, and it is a story about a very dangerous business. The other aspect is the general literate knowledge of the story, which means what for a reader? I don't know.

A little behind but finished the chapter where we meet Queequeg. Pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to read assumed it would be too wordy to follow. Anyone else looking up the nautical terms as you go along.

Hi Izzy! - )
I like your avatar. We have a black cat, one of eight, we named Isolde to go with her brother Tristan, we call her Izzy.
Glad your liking MD . Nautical terms are really strange. The words don't seem to have any relationship to their functions?

Hi Mark I have 6 cats the avatar one is called Merlin likes to be near me. The terms are strange but I'm sure we'll be experts by the end of the book. Isolde and Tristan are great names for cats.

Three cats here, plus a Scoodle dog (Scottish Terrier / Miniature Poodle mix), ferret, rabbit, hamster, and two ring-necked doves. Adding a hedgehog soon.

I like the name Merlin! I like names from literature. All mine are rescue cats. I see them in the alley; I start feeding them; and then invite them into the house. I'm feeding three regulars outside right now, my wife won't let me bring anymore in. - )

Patrick wrote: "Three cats here, plus a Scoodle dog (Scottish Terrier / Miniature Poodle mix), ferret, rabbit, hamster, and two ring-necked doves. Adding a hedgehog soon."

Far-out, Patrick. Very cool! Eclectic pets. - )

Mark wrote: "Patrick wrote: "Three cats here, plus a Scoodle dog (Scottish Terrier / Miniature Poodle mix), ferret, rabbit, hamster, and two ring-necked doves. Adding a hedgehog soon."

Far-out, Patrick. Very c..."

They are the joy of my life! And they get along very well. I keep the ferret separate from the rabbit, hamster, and doves. One of the cats can't be trusted with the hamster or doves either. Otherwise, zero problems.

Patrick wrote: "Mark wrote: "Patrick wrote: "Three cats here, plus a Scoodle dog (Scottish Terrier / Miniature Poodle mix), ferret, rabbit, hamster, and two ring-necked doves. Adding a hedgehog soon."

Far-out, Pa..."

I agree. There is a very special pleasure to be found living with pets. - )

Wow!! This thread is hopping!

"First and foremost, Melville's prose. It is perfection. Clean, clear, intelligent, elegant. And the way he orchestrates every word, sentence, and paragraph. Just take the first chapter, we know we are in the hands of a master. " -- I couldn't agree more! The opening pages with the quotes was the best, I loved how he traced the history and other references to whales. Then he adds to the conversation with his sparkling prose.

The sermon where (I think Paula) said it's a stopping point, I agree. Most folks would certainly stop there. I didn't read it as deeply as I could have. I know, terrible Biblio :P

In my defence, the Cetology chapter was super cool!! His descriptions of the whales give each one their own personality.

OK. I have just finished ch. 16, which puts me two weeks behind schedule.

There has been nothing boring so far, but there sure have been 'humorous' bits that were NOT funny ("Clam or cod?"- I can see a brusque innkeeper who only has one question, but I can't see Ishamel, having sought out the Try-Pot, famed for its chowder, being so chowder-headed as not to understand the question.)

So, I am not as bowled over as some of the group. On the other hand, I do like some of it.

I told myself, "I can't stop at the sermon." And the sermon was good, especially the moral part. The narrative, - this is what Jonah thought and did- not so much.

This part is good:

"Bildad," cried Captain Peleg, "at it again, Bildad, eh? Ye have been studying those Scriptures, now, for the last thirty years, to my certain knowledge. How far ye got, Bildad?"

As if long habituated to such profane talk from his old shipmate, Bildad, without noticing his present irreverence, quietly looked up, and seeing me, glanced again inquiringly towards Peleg.

"He says he's our man, Bildad," said Peleg, "he wants to ship."

"Dost thee?" said Bildad, in a hollow tone, and turning round to me.

"I dost," said I unconsciously, he was so intense a Quaker.

"What do ye think of him, Bildad?" said Peleg.

"He'll do," said Bildad, eyeing me, and then went on spelling away at his book in a mumbling tone quite audible.

I think this book is like the Try-Pot chowder. The first bowl is delicious, even the second bowl. But you wouldn't want it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Andrea wrote: "I love the amount of alliteration Melville is using - it makes the narrative sound so poetic. I actually find myself flagging the most interesting descriptors, like "these bashful bears, these timi..."

I'm running late (as usual!) and have just finished this section. I started reading this in college but had to abandon it as I was at the end of a 19-hour semester and just had to pick my battles. I'm so glad to get to finally read it in its entirety, and with this illustrious group. I agree, Andrea, about the alliteration. It adds a lovely poetic quality to prose that is already brilliant.

Regarding Paula's comment about the sermon--I had never heard this, but am utterly astounded that anyone would find this recounting of the Bible story of Jonah boring! Melville took this old story and infused it with such passion and drama that even I, familiar with it since early childhood, found it enthralling. I could picture Jonah, desperate and furtive, his consciousness of his own guilt such that it radiates from him in a palpable miasma, causing all who come in contact with him to recoil. The greedy captain, the hair-raising storm, even the frightened but merciful sailors--Melville breathes new life into them.

I'm so glad to get to return to this book, considered by many to be THE great American novel. It's too important a work to not experience it at some point in your life.

Cindy wrote: "Andrea wrote: "I love the amount of alliteration Melville is using - it makes the narrative sound so poetic. I actually find myself flagging the most interesting descriptors, like "these bashful be..."

Yay! So you got what I loved about it as well! In the Bible, the story is but a small, rather dry, recounting of a story. But Melville, through the voice of the preacher, made it a true sea story. It lived and breathed. And that the preacher recreated the story in a way that his parishioners could relate to was wonderful. And he felt the message as well. Felt it related to him as well. Even doubly so.

Only 2 or maybe now 3 weeks behind. I agree for the most part that Melvilles prose is excellent. I particularly liked both the Sermon and the description of Nantucket. He has a wonderful ability to paint a picture of not just the location but of the time period as if he knew his novel would be read a century and a half later.


Hopefully I’ll be able to catch up some in the next couple weeks now that my in person group is done for the month and I’ve finished the other book I was reading. This one is tough for me to tackle when I’m tired but I am determined to get through it

I am looking forward to meeting Ahab.

Stephanie

Stephanie wrote: "Only 2 or maybe now 3 weeks behind. I agree for the most part that Melvilles prose is excellent. I particularly liked both the Sermon and the description of Nantucket. He has a wonderful ability to..."

I think the book gets easier as it progresses. I am envious that you have an in-person group. It doesn't seem to be a big thing where I live. There are one or two, but they aren't very consistent. I miss D.C. where there are so many, including quite a few hosted at a bookstore called Politics and Prose. It is a wonderful place.

Paula,

This is a new group and was the first time I attended. A friend found it in meet-up. It’s the first time in about 15 yrs I’ve had an in person group. In my former life I was a college professor. We had an awesome book group with a mix of biology, chemistry (me), English and history profs as well as a few outside the college. I’m so excited to have found this new group. I’ll miss their next meeting because I’ll be on vacation but look forward to March.

Stephanie

I would love a real life bookclub!! The ones that I know of in my town read probably romances or current best sellers :( But there is at least one other nerdy person, 'cause at the library sometimes a fantastic book is checked out ^.^ So there's hope, the one other person will form a group and we'd be 2!! 2 enough for a book club?

Christopher wrote: "OK. I have just finished ch. 16, which puts me two weeks behind schedule.

There has been nothing boring so far, but there sure have been 'humorous' bits that were NOT funny ("Clam or cod?"- I can ..."

Chris, I don't know what you are talking about. Clam vs cod is hilarious! right?

Lorna wrote: "LoomingsFrom the first line, "Call me Ishmael," we are all invited to have a close relationship with the narrator.

Instead out of an outsider I have a theory maybe it was because in Genesis 21:17..."

interesting thought Lorna, but saved by God from what? or is that TBD?

Cindy wrote: "Andrea wrote: "I love the amount of alliteration Melville is using - it makes the narrative sound so poetic. I actually find myself flagging the most interesting descriptors, like "these bashful be..."

no worries cindy, catch up when you can and glad you are joining! I remember thinking the sermon chapter was boring in college, but find it enthralling now.

Stephanie wrote: "Only 2 or maybe now 3 weeks behind. I agree for the most part that Melvilles prose is excellent. I particularly liked both the Sermon and the description of Nantucket. He has a wonderful ability to..."

Melville sure does a good job of building up the Ahab suspense, I think we all want to meet him at this point!

I was looking for a particular passage in an earlier chapter (still looking), but in the course of doing so, I found something that made an impression on me at the time. One of Melville's small philosophy musings. It's when Ishmael is talking with Peleg (sitting in that fantastical wigwam, of all things).

Peleg asks why Ishmael wants to go whaling, to which Ishmael replies that he wants to see the world.

Peleg then instructs Ishmael to go over to the side of the ship and look out; then asks him to report back.

" 'Well, what's the report?" said Peleg when I came back; "what did he see?'

'Not much,' I replied - 'nothing but water; considerable horizon though, and there's a squall coming up, I think.'

'Well, what dost thou think then of seeing the world? Do ye wish to go round Cape Horn to see any more of it, he? Can't ye see the world where you stand?' "

I thought this was an interesting observation - Peleg reminds us that we are always 'seeing the world', all the time; that the world is all around us and not somewhere we are not, but that we seem to feel we have to go somewhere else to really find it.

Of course, Ishmael means that he wants to see 'more' of the world, but Peleg is saying that we shouldn't be so busy trying to find the world that we lose sight of the fact that...there we are.

And there's humorous side to the exchange in that Peleg is also saying: well this seeing of the world is a fine idea, but what you're really going to see is "water water everywhere", as far as the eye can see - for the next several years.

I also enjoyed the good cop, bad cop exchange between Peleg and Bildad in negotiating Ishmael's lay - and making Ishmael believe he had done very well as a result, even though it wasn't as good a result as he had originally intended.

That was very cleverly done.

Dianne wrote: "I don't know what you're talking about"

Look, they're going to an inn famous for its chowder, right?

They walk in the door and the question is "clam or cod?"

It's not that hard to 'get' the question. The brusqueness is funny (and true to life), but Ishamael is playing it too straight.

"A clam for supper? a cold clam; is that what you mean, Mrs. Hussey?" says I, "but that's a rather cold and clammy reception in the winter time, ain't it, Mrs. Hussey?"

But being in a great hurry to resume scolding the man in the purple shirt who was waiting for it in the entry, and seeming to hear nothing but the word "clam," Mrs. Hussey hurried towards an open door leading to the kitchen, and bawling out "clam for two," disappeared.

"Queequeg," said I, "do you think that we can make a supper for us both on one clam?"

(Arrrgh!- even if this is tongue in cheek, I still don't think it's funny.)

Anyway, the description of the chowder is pretty good. I actually had some clam chowder after reading it, but it didn't live up to expectations.

Cod chowder was not an option.

Neither was lobster bisque.

Christopher, This is not my first MD rodeo, and I missed that "one clam" altogether. It went straight over my head.

But there is humor sprinkled throughout the book. For example, and I missed this when I read it before, there's the meeting of Ishmael and Ahab. Ahab is a Quaker, and uses the "thee's" and "thou's" when he speaks. Unsurprisingly, Ishmael is struck by Ahab's manner. He's downright shook, to use the contemporary vernacular. So when Ahab asks him if he dosts do something (I forget the question), Ishmael forgets himself and replies, "I dost!"

I had to put down my Kindle and pause to giggle. As we've discussed this book, we've noted Melville's beautiful and florid prose. And a whale is a huge creature. Melville uses much hyperbole in this story. It helps make his point, but sometimes it really is tongue in cheek.

Paula wrote: "I was looking for a particular passage in an earlier chapter (still looking), but in the course of doing so, I found something that made an impression on me at the time. One of Melville's small phi..."

it's a good point - CAN you see the world where you stand? as any avid travelers know, each new place can reveal entirely new and enchanting experiences unlike any other, but perhaps at core humanity and its struggles are the same wherever you go?

Christopher wrote: "Dianne wrote: "I don't know what you're talking about"

Look, they're going to an inn famous for its chowder, right?

They walk in the door and the question is "clam or cod?"

It's not that hard to..."

I was joking w. you, this was definitely not that funny. And what kind of slipshod operation was this to not have lobster bisque. Seriously.

Hummingbirder wrote: "Christopher, This is not my first MD rodeo, and I missed that "one clam" altogether. It went straight over my head.

But there is humor sprinkled throughout the book. For example, and I missed this..."

I loved this comment hummingbirder, that you had to put the book down to giggle at 'I dost'! I think we can all relate to that in this group, but if I told that to a coworker or friend they would be thinking uhhhh... One of my particular favorites is, as she was 'wont' to do. I also like 'of an evening'.

Dianne wrote: "Hummingbirder wrote: "Christopher, This is not my first MD rodeo, and I missed that "one clam" altogether. It went straight over my head.

But there is humor sprinkled throughout the book. For exam..."

Yes, I'd have to go to my favorite Amish restaurant in Sarasota to find someone who'd appreciate the humor in that.

Hummingbirder wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Hummingbirder wrote: "Christopher, This is not my first MD rodeo, and I missed that "one clam" altogether. It went straight over my head.

But there is humor sprinkled throughout the..."

by the way, then, what are some essential amish dishes? I may have to try to make some.

Essential Amish dishes

Pretty much everything is made from scratch. The mashed potatoes are peeled, boiled, and mashed creamy. Roast chicken and turkey, fried chicken, cabbage rolls, fresh baked bread, steamed vegetables, homemade cakes and pies. Most especially Mrs. Yoders's chocolate cream pie. Scratch crust, scratch custard (cooled), freshly whipped cream and a sprinkle of mini-chocolate chips.

Hummingbirder wrote: "Essential Amish dishes

Pretty much everything is made from scratch. The mashed potatoes are peeled, boiled, and mashed creamy. Roast chicken and turkey, fried chicken, cabbage rolls, fresh baked b..."

by the way, thanks Hummingbirder! I will have to look for a Mrs. Yoder's recipe!

Dianne wrote: "Hummingbirder wrote: "Essential Amish dishes

Pretty much everything is made from scratch. The mashed potatoes are peeled, boiled, and mashed creamy. Roast chicken and turkey, fried chicken, cabbag..."

Yoder's has a page on Facebook.

Awesome thanks!