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The Expanse: Starting a run
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Watched the second episode yesterday. I'm already disturbed. First, they do an obvious "suspend your disbelief" changeover when Holden and Naomi get to the top of a ladder in zero g, after which they're on magnetic boots but actually filming in regular gravity. Not loving that but okay. Then they get hit, around the orbit of Saturn, and somehow have enough fuel to get *most* of the way to Ceres. They're also apparently still in most of 1g since items fall when thrown. Except the books make it abundantly clear that the ships are in free fall most of the time to save fuel. A ship that size wouldn't have reaction mass to be at 1G, and if they had anywhere near that much delta V they wouldn't have trouble getting to Ceres.
Other parts of this are good. The Coriolis effect when Miller pours a drink is interesting. However, they don't even try to show the 0.3g or less gravity environment in Ceres.
Also, Naomi is totally miscast. She's a tall, willowy Belter, raised in low g. Surely they could have found a more appropriate body type.
It seems that in order to film The Expanse, they had to destroy its realism.
You might want to ask James SA Corey or Naren Shankar directly on Twitter about those questions. Pretty they did handwave some stuff but with explanations.
John (Taloni) wrote: "Also, Naomi is totally miscast. She's a tall, willowy Belter, raised in low g. Surely they could have found a more appropriate body type.."
That was my biggest critique when the show launched. I didn't like any of the casting outside of Avasarala and Alex. Amos and Holden were particularly bad. But now after 2 seasons I have come around. I think Steven Strait has come into his own with Holden, and hats off to Wes Chatham.. I was so skeptical of him but he has played Amos just perfectly. Re-watching has only emphasized this.
Wes Chatham is perfect. I love him as Amos so much. Naomi isn’t what I pictured but Dominique Tipper does such a fantastic job that I don’t really care. I always picture Idris Elba as Fred Johnson but I knew he’d never be cast. He’s too big.
John (Taloni) wrote: "Watched the second episode yesterday. I'm already disturbed. First..."I don't know where you got that idea about them always being on the float. Ships are rarely in free-fall when they're travelling - they generally travel at a gentle .3G thrust and then flip and do the same the rest of the way. No one on a ship wants to spend months at 0G, and with the Epstein Drive, fuel is relatively cheap. They spend months on each trip out to the ice and back, the show doesn't talk about time too much, since that would be boring and require a lot of "8 months later..."
You seem to expect everyone to hop around like the astronauts did on the Moon landing. No one is going to walk like that, unless they are newly arrived to a low G place. It looks silly, it's not necessary once you adjust to the amount of force needed for walking, and it's a bad habit - what if you were hopping around and accidentally launched yourself into space? Amd most of the time in the ships, they all have their magboots on anyway.
Yes, things should be a bit more "floaty," or fall more slowly, but since they film on Earth, you have to cut them some slack. Also, they could not cast enough 7' tall people, or afford to CGI every Belter, so they had to make some changes - the Belters tend to have the tattoos and weird haircuts and you'll see some small physical signs on Miller.
Really, you should relax about the nitpicky details. Shows will never be exactly the books, and they do a really good job of keeping the story dynamic and fresh while still following the plotlines. And they've already said they had to change the crew dynamics - we're going to watch them develop into the relationships of the books, instead of starting them off as already well known to each other.
Dara wrote: "Wes Chatham is perfect. I love him as Amos so much. Naomi isn’t what I pictured but Dominique Tipper does such a fantastic job that I don’t really care. I always picture Idris Elba as Fred Johnson ..."Honestly I fully trust the casting now. No one could be Avasarala better than Shohreh, seriously the ideal casting for her. And as we both said Chatham is Amos. I love Shawn Doyle, and Frankie Adams, and Elizabeth Mitchell too
Good advice from another show:
If you're wondering how he eats and breathes
And other science facts,
Just repeat to yourself "It's just a show,
I should really just relax”
I was so stoked for Shohreh cause I’m a total Mass Effect fangirl and she’s in that game.
Regarding the casting, yeah, Avasarala is perfect. I get why they introduced her now rather than waiting. I didn't really buy any of the crew of the Roci as the characters early on, but Amos has owned it. (Starting ep 9 now.) Alex's occasional drawl sucked me into that one. Holden is still wrong physically, but when he did the broadcast to the Belt about the Canterbury on I felt better about that one. Every time he takes a stupidly noble action I'm feeling him as Holden more and more.The physics continues to annoy me. People on magnetic boots won't stand ramrod straight, they'd sway from the vertical. Many lost chances to show low gravity on the inner areas of Ceres. I can't even see that Eros rotates but there they are, walking around like it's normal gravity. Of course I'm nitpicking but also binging the season. And obviously know what's in the books.
Some missed opportunities to introduce the Protomolecule like they did in the books, and the corporate malfeasance part for its discovery and deployment is almost completely gone through ep 8. The shortened bit about Julie Mao came off pathetic rather than creepy.
I'm not expert in potential fusion drives, but those flames look like chemical rockets. I recall when Niven did the calcs on Bussard ramjets for Protector so that he would get the right emission spectra. Here it looks like they just went for "pretty looking drive emission."
On the plus side, the "Butcher of Anderson Station" was nicely done from the short. Overall they do a good job of showing life in space. The bird effect is neat. Miller's getting pissed off about water thieves when he lets a wide variety of other crimes pass shows his attention to what is actually important versus what is technically on the books.
We know Naomi and Holden will eventually get together, and the drinking scene showed the first sign of it. That was a well handled bit of characterization.
Episode Ten down. Kind of lame that they didn't do the run of the Eros and its landing on Venus in Season 1. Large chunks of the book made it in, which is good, but I don't know how you do a novel-style TV season with no ending to its story arc.The swapping of elements is also distorting. Bringing up Naomi's secret a couple of books early. The reference to "slinging rocks." I can go with it, but it makes the whole plotline of the books collapse in my head and I'm not sure what to expect next.
I kinda like that they don't do one book = one season, that feels unnecessary in a TV series, especially when making the transition to a visual medium (compress some elements, expand others).
^ Sure, that can work. I guess my main problem was that nothing really happened to make it feel like the end of a season. Episodic TV, there really isn't an arc but you can have a cliffhanger. Like, say, ST:TNG and "Best of Both Worlds." Or the return of Dr. Who, which had four season arcs and an "arc of arcs" comprising all four, with the TV Specials as a coda. Now *that* was pacing! This ending episode wasn't much of an ending or a cliffhanger. It was like, "and then they flew away to nothing in particular. Tah!"
John (Taloni) wrote: "This ending episode wasn't much of an ending or a cliffhanger. It was like, "and then they flew away to nothing in particular. Tah"Haha. Fair enough. To be honest, I've watched so much I can't remember where S1 ends and S2 starts. Like to me it feels like S2 Ep 5 is the basic story break, but that's probably because of the books
The fuck did they do to Bobbi Draper? She's a no-nonsense "get it done" Marine, not some jingoistic puppet.She also doesn't seem large or strong enough for the role. I kinda feel like Bobbi has been replaced by a petite Anime character named Ninjit Sue. Well, at least they went with a Samoan so it's kinda close.
Something I read from some behind-the-scenes stuff is that while in the books a lot of these characters start out more unified or competent, that on screen they prefer to start them a bit differently for better on-screen development (i.e. the crew of the Rocinante in the book vs. on screen) and Bobbie Draper being as she is when you first meet her vs. how she'll be later.For her physicality, here's an article about casting Frankie Adams: http://www.indiewire.com/2017/02/the-...
From the article:
The key priority for them was finding someone who matched the book’s description to a T: “Someone who is of Polynesian descent or looks Polynesian and six feet tall and can have this strength and then also this vulnerability behind it,” in Ostby’s words.
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I have strong opinions about a book adaptation? Shocking! I must be alone among geeks. :)Again regarding Bobbie Draper, to David's point, I can read that article and understand the statements but that's not the impression I got onscreen. Bobbie seemed well under six feet tall. Obviously I'm not on set with a measuring stick. I believe you and the article, and yet she seemed shorter on screen. Cinematographic choices? If so, why? She does not seem like a woman with the body type and strength that an athletic woman of 100 kilos would have.
However, I'm less peeved by the body type since they're clearly trying. It was the jingoistic "Mars will take Earth" stuff that got me. Who reading the books would think Bobbie would do that?
John (Taloni) wrote: "The fuck did they do to Bobbi Draper? She's a no-nonsense "get it done" Marine, not some jingoistic puppet.She also doesn't seem large or strong enough for the role. I kinda feel like Bobbi has b..."
Watchoo talkin bout Willis?
Frankie Adams was born to play Bobbie Draper. Samoan? Check. Six feet tall? Check. Athlete? Check.
She’s not identical to the book description — six feet six inches, 240 pounds, muscle bound — but no woman on Earth is. Hell, few men fit that description. Adams is as close as you’re going to get.
^ Probably. Still not sure why she seemed smaller onscreen. *shrug*Edited to add: I'm not sure I believe the stats. I feel a bit like a basketball fan reading a bio that says a player is six foot, when he's plainly no more than 5' 10''.
Incidentally it never occurred to me, until I read the article Dave provided, that the role might get "whitewashed." Even the misses are at least close. They are definitely trying to stay close to the books. Julie Mao is perfect. Miller...I dunno what's up about the hair but it works for him.
Starting Ep 13 now. Reaaaaallllyyyyy hoping to see a Ring by the end of the 15th episode. This is taking too long.
John (Taloni) wrote: "^ Probably. Still not sure why she seemed smaller onscreen. *shrug*Edited to add: I'm not sure I believe the stats. I feel a bit like a basketball fan reading a bio that says a player is six foot..."
Even if she’s only 5’10”, so what? Big is big. The fact we’ve seen her standing next to male actors who we know are 6 feet tall shows that she’s at least their height. She’s much taller than the U.N. lady, who is 5’5”.
Book one ends in s2ep5, we haven't finished book 2 yet in season 3 as of episode 3 - looks like Caliban's War will end at s3ep5 or 6.
^Just finished S2 Ep5. Goddamn if that wasn't the most romantic thing I've seen in ages. With a nuclear bomb to boot!That was a fitting ending, but it kinda means that the "season" isn't. The storylines end where they end. Pacing is still off for me. But yeah, they can deliver an ending.
Gonna get to the end of S2 by end tomorrow latest. Might watch S3 as it unfolds.
Shohreh Aghdashloo is fucking killing it as Avasarala. Yeah, she has some good lines written for her, but what Shohreh can do with a look is incredible. You ask me, she's stealing the show the way Nimoy did from Shatner.
Prax is great, love how his specific knowledge plays to the larger story. Thought the season ended at 10 though and now I see it goes to 13 episodes. Will watch #11 and then stop for the day. It's all starting to run together. Vignettes of life in space, with a main course of death, two side dishes of death, and some death for dessert, with a protomolecule topping for additional death.
So, almost done with the second season, where do you stand? Team MCRN, Team UNN, or Team OPA?
Rob wrote: "Team Avasarala!"That works for me :-)
Yeah, Avasarala has...(Luke voice) kicked more ass than I can imagine. And I can imagine quite a lot!Of any side in the conflict I think I most identify with OPA. Not the crazies, but the regular people just trying to get by in a rough system. Mars and Earth are both posturing and doing stupid things.
I still love Alex in the MCRN uniform though. Looks like the Martians missed a bet by not letting him pilot the harder ships.
Going to pop in S2Ep13 now. It looks like some of the S3 episodes might be on Netflix too. Might check those out.
Wanted to watch Lost in Space after S1 of The Expanse but just kinda kept going. May as well take it up to current.
Two episodes into S3. They're getting a lot of the book's moments in, but some of the TV shorthand is jarring. Distances are way to easy to overcome. "Oh, we're on our way to Titan. Let's just reverse course, skip past the orbit of Jupiter, and head back into the Belt in time to affect a battle occurring now! Matching velocities will be easy too." It's more like The Sandlot than The Expanse. I'll take this from Star Trek since they're not even trying for realism, but it's hard to accept here.Also: Amazon Prime wanted $3 an episode and SyFy wasn't repeating Ep 1 and 2, so I watched online. 5 commercial breaks is a little much. Well, at least I got to see it.
Aaaand all caught up. *cracks knuckles* Heading into the S3 thread!While my memory of the books is not exact, it seems like there's a lot more "humanizing" moments in the show than in the books. Likely an artifact of the medium.
Big sticking point: For a series that lives on scientific realism, how in the hell are they ice jockeying around Saturn? Am I crazy, or were they doing that much further in in the books? The travel time to Saturn is just too long for that to work.