Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

Excerpt from The Orphan Conspiracies: 29 Conspiracy Theories from The Orphan Trilogy:

As stated in the chapters in the mind control section of this book, America’s mind control programs stemmed from the US Government’s Project Paperclip, but it wasn’t just Nazi brainwashing techniques the Americans inherited. They also seized Nazi scientists whose number included known war criminals.

The top secret project, also known as Operation Paperclip, was a nefarious undertaking that allowed Nazi scientists to migrate to the US without prosecution. Some had studied brainwashing and other mind control methods first-hand in the concentration camps; many were rocket scientists who had been directly involved in the development of Germany’s feared V-1 and V-2 rockets. The latter’s contribution would pave the way for NASA and the Moon landings, and also for America’s Intercontinental Ballistic Missile program.

Project Paperclip was as much about denying German scientific expertise to the Soviet Union and Britain as it was benefiting US science, defence and space programs. This was happening as the Cold War loomed don’t forget and an uncertain world was being carved up by superpowers. It was a three-way grab (for the spoils) between the Americans, the Soviets and the Brits.

Remember, Nazi Germany’s scientific breakthroughs were nothing short of revolutionary. Although it didn’t last long, the Nazi era was arguably the most accelerated scientific period in history, especially when suppressed or little known Nazi inventions are taken into account. History reminds us how easily the Third Reich dominated Europe despite being greatly outnumbered by the combined Allied forces. The Germans ruled the land, sea and air, and it was obvious to all they had superior technologies.

The Allies learned the hard way that Nazi engineers and scientists had made incredible breakthroughs in various fields. These included semi-conductors, plasma physics, ballistic missiles, laser technologies, electromagnetic weapons, computers, astrophysics, infrared night vision and miniature electronics to name but a few. While some of these breakthroughs were commonly known, others remained classified and were kept secret for decades.

A BBC News report dated November 21, 2005 nicely summarizes the situation that existed at the close of WW2. That report states: “The end of World War II saw an intense scramble for Nazi Germany’s many technological secrets. The Allies vied to plunder as much equipment and expertise as possible from the rubble of the Thousand Year Reich for themselves, while preventing others from doing the same”.

The report continues: “The range of Germany’s technical achievement astounded Allied scientific intelligence experts accompanying the invading forces in 1945”.

That BBC News report also reminds us “It was the US and the Soviet Union which, in the first days of the Cold War, found themselves in a race against time to uncover Hitler’s scientific secrets”.

Project Paperclip was America’s solution to this problem. Supposedly named after the paperclips that were used to attach the files of the recruited German scientists, the project was the brainchild of America’s Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency (JOIA), a sub-committee of the Joint Chief’s of Staff of the US Armed Forces.

Project Paperclip’s architects viewed their secret endeavor as the solution to harnessing Nazi scientists’ superior knowledge and expertise, and positioning America as the world leader in science and technology.

MK-Ultra, the CIA’s far-reaching mind-control program, was an umbrella project spawned from the US Government’s super-secret Project Paperclip, a sinister venture that involved bringing dozens of Nazi scientists to America immediately after World War Two. –The Ninth Orphan

Krishna wrote: "i have also heard that Nazis wanted to understand the ancient knowledge and secrets and had tried to build anti gravity machines also.
but the thing is that Soviet didn't know about the scientific ..."

Krishna, I believe that's correct about the Nazis gaining some kind of ancient knowledge to build antigravity machines.
You might like to look at this post which quotes the afterword (written by Dr. Takaaki Musha) of my book ANTIGRAVITY PROPULSION:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Dr. Musha mentions the Nazis extensive expeditions to Tibet before WW2.

According to what I've researched, the Soviet Union (and Britain and Japan) also gained a lot of advanced technologies from the Nazis - and these countries all had their equivalent intelligence agency programs to Operation Paperclip.

Possibly the battle of Nazi science was the basis for the entire Cold War - tho I'm not sure on this just speculating admittedly.

However, one thing I am fairly sure about is America ended up gaining control of the Nazis' most sophisticated technologies especially their antigravity technologies (which by all accounts were either fully operation or at least in advanced development ala Victor Schauberger's prototype flying saucer's commissioned by the Nazis).

this is good image which nicely summarizes Paperclip in a nutshell: https://www.goodreads.com/photo/group...

This video is a good introduction to the little-known or underreported history of Project Paperclip aka Operation Paperclip https://www.goodreads.com/videos/7874...

I have always found Operation Paperclip to be a fascinating topic. I do believe that Nazi scientists were brought to America for their expertise in certain fields. What other kinds of technology did they use?

Jessica wrote: "I have always found Operation Paperclip to be a fascinating topic. I do believe that Nazi scientists were brought to America for their expertise in certain fields. What other kinds of technology did they use?..."

Yeah, it's a documented fact (via declassified documents, official government statements etc) that the US brought in thousands of Nazi scientists post WW2 (some of whom were known war criminals and closely associated with Hitler in their service within the Nazi party). However, the US government tries to put a positive spin on it by saying it was a "necessary evil" in the Cold War...Go figure!

According to what I've researched the scientists were not just involved in bringing and/or developing modern technologies to/in America including rocket science, underground base technologies and plasma technologies, but also darker science...which was honed by experimenting on "live humans" in the Holocaust such as mind control (which lead to the CIA's official and well-documented MK-Ultra program and all the offshoot programs) and biowarfare (which was directly responsible for Plum Island).

A book on one of the most famous Nazi scientists who came to America via Paperclip: Dr. Space: The Life of Wernher Von Braun

Thanks for the book advice James.

Operation South Paper Clip?

http://io9.com/a-secret-nazi-hideout-...

Hey David, That's fairly strong evidence pointing toward the long-time conspiracy theory of extensive Nazi bases or communities in South America post WW2.
Pretty scary actually.

I have imagined for some time now that Hitler was a demented type of used car salesman who was used by an "inner circle" of Nazi operators to sell their message. I have never imaged Hitler to be too bright. I think that's why I find it hard to understand why German people seemed to trust his Word. I guess that's why he was chosen. He believed in his own glory.

However, the idea that Nazi excusists and Nazi propaganda still exists frankly scares the hell out of me. I am sorry if I have said something inane in my impression of Hitler. I am not as well read or researched as some on this site so history probably debunks my impressions.

Nazi bases in south america... havent heard that. Pretty scary for real if true... really that any versions of them are still around should make anyone think twice. They may have been barbarians but they were far from stupid. I have always thought Paperclip to be a disgrace... i am sure in some circles it seemed a necessary evil... but there is a great desl more there too than either of those ideas suggest...

James wrote: "Nazi bases in south america... havent heard that. Pretty scary for real if true... really that any versions of them are still around should make anyone think twice. They may have been barbarian..."

Quite agree James. More to come out about the Sth America angle going forward I predict.

David wrote: "Operation South Paper Clip?

http://io9.com/a-secret-nazi-hideout-..."

As much as there's a lot of reason to think many Nazis did escape to South America- and, it's actually a common held 'fact' by people in the region- this latest discovery seems to be BS. The only interesting thing from the latest news is that 'swastikas were carved on the walls', so it's funny how they don't have a picture of this. The rest is pure speculation, as this Guardian article points out:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015...

And having been very near to the exact spot myself, I can assure you it's hardly 'deep in the jungle'.

Doesn't mean that the Boys Of Brazil aren't secretly forming a New World Order though! Ha! :)

Actually I meant to post this article, though the other one is more up to date.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015...

Laureen wrote: "I have imagined for some time now that Hitler was a demented type of used car salesman who was used by an "inner circle" of Nazi operators to sell their message. I have never imaged Hitler to be t..."

I love your idea that Hitler was a "demented used car salesman"!

Harry, excellent follow up-thanks

Cheers David. :)

Americanized Nazis & The Fourth Reich https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZjRA...

Lance Morcan wrote: "Americanized Nazis & The Fourth Reich https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZjRA..."

I almost want to cry. It's like a personal gift. I love you guys. This is fantastic.
Thank You!

Mikhayla wrote: "I almost want to cry. It's like a personal gift. I love you guys. This is fantastic.
Thank You! ..."

IllumiNazis are now going mainstream, Mikhayla! :)

James Morcan wrote: "This video is a good introduction to the little-known or underreported history of Project Paperclip aka Operation Paperclip https://www.goodreads.com/videos/7874...-..."

45 min long...Looking forward to watching this later tonight...goes hand in hand with one of the books I'm reading atm...very interesting subject :)

Lisa wrote: "45 min long...Looking forward to watching this later tonight...goes hand in hand with one of the books I'm reading atm...very interesting subject :)
..."

Is that the one by Annie Jacobsen?

This one here:

Operation Paperclip: The Secret Intelligence Program that Brought Nazi Scientists to America

James Morcan wrote: "Lisa wrote: "45 min long...Looking forward to watching this later tonight...goes hand in hand with one of the books I'm reading atm...very interesting subject :)
..."

Is that the one by Annie Jac..."

yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZjRA...

Beneath my YouTube video on this subject (video is titled Americanized Nazis & The Fourth Reich), there was a comment posted but since deleted by a YouTube member (who goes by the name fstratzero) who wrote the following:

fstratzero
I'm a German descendant born out of the space race. Operation Paper clip is real. Families German last name was originally Van Hagen, it was changed for obvious reasons.

If anyone is interested in contacting this American Paperclip Nazi descendant, fstratzero has a YouTube account: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvNo...

It may be a household name here but Jim Marrs has a good read on this - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

When the U.S. recruited Nazis for Operation Paperclip -- "national security interests trumped ethical concerns" (PBS NewsHour) -- https://www.goodreads.com/videos/1014...

Operation Paperclip: The History of the Secret Program to Bring Nazi Scientists to America During and After World War II

A partner to Paperclip was the OSS operation Sunrise that rescued high level Nazi intelligence operatives such as Karl Wolff and Reinhard Gehlen along with their spy networks to turn them against the Soviet Union. Future top CIA men such as Alan Dulles & Jim Angleton initiated Sunrise as early as 1945. The birth of the Cold War.
See 'The Devil's Chessboard' David Talbot.

Pete wrote: "A partner to Paperclip was the OSS operation Sunrise that rescued high level Nazi intelligence operatives such as Karl Wolff and Reinhard Gehlen along with their spy networks to turn them against t..."

I'm currentlyreading Devil's Chessboard...very interesting book, learning some new and interesting facts about war/CIA and the politics behind it. Dulles is a piece of work...had me wondering that he could be a psychopath.

Lisa wrote: Interesting the initials of Talbot's book is D.C.
Not just Alan, but Foster too. Fancy naming Washington's airport after these freaks!

Allen and Foster were "unique". They wee sure they were right, so any means could be justified. However, Talbot seems to see only black in his view. Check this one out; The Brothers: John Foster Dulles, Allen Dulles, and Their Secret World Wa by Stephen Kinzer

Comes highly rated
A Kirkus Reviews Best Nonfiction Book of 2013

David wrote: "Allen and Foster were "unique". They wee sure they were right, so any means could be justified. However, Talbot seems to see only black in his view. Check this one out; The Brothers: John Foster Du..."

I'll pick up that book as soon as i finish Devil's Chessboard...very interesting and in many ways disturbing part of history...curious to learn more!

David wrote: "Allen and Foster were "unique". They wee sure they were right, so any means could be justified. However, Talbot seems to see only black in his view. " From my view in the U.K., Allen & Foster weren't unique at all. In that period of history there were many government & military characters that 'were sure they were right, so any means could be justified'. Both Dulles' worked against White House policies of 3 presidents which almost resulted in WWIII & as per the revelations of Ed Snowden it continues today.

Pete, please share with me who else was in high office and shared their views and had the impact they had.

Notice that JF Dulles was only in power in the 50's

John Foster Dulles was appointed Secretary of State by President Dwight Eisenhower on January 21, 1953. Dulles served for much of the decade, leaving an indelible mark upon U.S. foreign policy that included close cooperation between the Department of State and the Central Intelligence Agency as well as a focus upon international mutual security agreements designed to contain communism.

Allen Welsh Dulles (/ˈdʌləs/; April 7, 1893 – January 29, 1969) was an American diplomat and lawyer who became the first civilian Director of Central Intelligence and its longest-serving director to date. As head of the Central Intelligence Agency during the early Cold War, he oversaw the 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état, Operation Ajax (the overthrow of Iran's elected government), the Lockheed U-2 aircraft program and the Bay of Pigs Invasion. Following the assassination of John F. Kennedy, Dulles was one of the members of the Warren Commission. Between his stints of government service, Dulles was a corporate lawyer and partner at Sullivan & Cromwell. His older brother, John Foster Dulles, was the Secretary of State during the Eisenhower Administration

Allen had a lot more pull with the CIA. He and JFK did not like each other-JFK felt betrayed. He was going to "break up the CIA:
So, Dallas happened.

The tale has been told so often that it becomes fact. Maybe not; see this: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jfk_cia.htm

I won't change your mind and don't plan to. I don't blame the US for every evil in the world since 1914.

David wrote: Lots of points here David!
I don't blame the US for every evil in the world since 1914. Nor I. Some of my best friends & heroes are American. I just don't share the paranoia of godless communism like you guys. In 1945 the Soviets were no threat to anyone. FDR & Stalin's friendship was betrayed after FDR's death & the Cold War was initiated. It's still going on now.

Truman was led down the garden path by Allen with the CIA as Truman stated a decade later. Iran coup in 53 with Brit intell. for oil. Guatemala in 54 just to get rid of a left wing Arbenz. Failed attempt in Indonesia in 58. U.S./Soviet missile gap lies to Ike. Another failed coup in Syria. Wreckage of Ike's Peace talks with Khrushchev with the U2 flight in 60. Allen's lies to JFK on Bay of Pigs in 61. Allen's Operation Sunrise & MK-Ultra involvements.
His lies to Warren Commission & with Foster his involvements with United Fruit Co.
'Legacy of Ashes' Tim Weiner for much more.

Will have to check on Legacy of Ashes.

Best not to allow patriotism or even nationalities of leaders to come into the equation, I say. Just look at them all as assholes in powerful positions, regardless of nationality! The US and UK often get singled out only because they have held the most power over the last century.

And unfortunately Dulles would probably be a saint compared to the new batch of sociopaths in power. It's just that the new breed have learnt how to almost completely disguise their ruthless (borderline fascist) activities. I feel it's a very safe prediction to say that what the likes of Snowden & Assange have leaked so far is merely the tip of the iceberg.

Yes...and what is in place now is inexorable creep against civil liberties and human rights that the likes of Dulles and Hoover initiated.

Pete wrote: "Yes...and what is in place now is inexorable creep against civil liberties and human rights that the likes of Dulles and Hoover initiated."

Yes, but I suspect not even nasties like Dulles and Hoover could have ever envisaged the elitist, war-mongering, fear-based paradigm we have in place now.

I also tend to agree with what you imply about the Cold War not being necessary or organic. No more organic than having a "war on terror" (whatever that oxymoronic term actually means - nobody knows apparently)...

James Morcan wrote: I also tend to agree with what you imply about the Cold War not being necessary.
It's a fraud. To provide hegemony in Europe after WWII. Like the domino theory in the Pacific. Pax Americana imposed on the world by American weapons of war...as JFK stated.

Operation Paperclip: The Secret Intelligence Program that Brought Nazi Scientists to America



Operation Paperclip: The History of the Secret Program to Bring Nazi Scientists to America During and After World War II



Project Paperclip: German Scientists and the Cold War



Secret Agenda: The United States Government, Nazi Scientists, and Project Paperclip, 1945 to 1990

I've read Operation Paperclip: The Secret Intelligence Program that Brought Nazi Scientists to America, but I'm trying to get more insight on the daily lives of the scientists once in America.

Though I find the projects they worked on fascinating (and often chilling) reading, I wonder about more commonplace things. What was their family situation like? Do any sources particularly have interviews with any of their children? Did they know of their fathers' pasts? What did they think of it?

How did they interact with American co-workers? Was it it common knowledge that they were (ex)Nazis? Did this cause friction or was it an "anything to defeat the Commies" situation?

Looking for some additional reading on this more human angle.

Robert wrote: "I've read Operation Paperclip: The Secret Intelligence Program that Brought Nazi Scientists to America, but I'm trying to get more insight on the daily lives of the scientists once ..."

my daughter read this book. chilling, to say the least.

Robert wrote: "I've read Operation Paperclip: The Secret Intelligence Program that Brought Nazi Scientists to America, but I'm trying to get more insight on the daily lives of the scientists once ..."

Yes it is intriguing Robert. And how many thousands (tens of thousands?) of descendants of those Paperclip Nazis are living normal lives as genuine everyday American citizens in the US today? They could easily be your neighbours...

A book review of Operation Paperclip: The Secret Intelligence Program that Brought Nazi Scientists to America by Annie Jacobsen

At the end of the European War, the United States made the decision to overlook the crimes committed by certain German scientists, engineers, and medical doctors in order to secure their knowledge and talent. Among those recruited were convicted war criminals, doctors who had experimented on concentration camp victims, and weapons engineers who made use of slave laborers. In the United States, these men became leaders in the American space program and discovered chemicals useful for jungle warfare in Vietnam. In Operation Paperclip, author Annie Jacobsen discussed this controversial topic that lasted from the final months of WW2 into the next few decades. The content was well researched and the narration was well written. She effectively presented the two diametrically opposite sides of these German experts, clearly evil yet undoubtedly talented, and the two sides that the United States leadership balanced, the need to back up the claims of being the moral leaders of the world and the need to keep up with the Soviet Union in the Cold War. She wrapped up the book with an appendix summarizing the war time exploits and post-war experiences of a number of Germans who either became a part of Operation Paperclip or were at least considered for Operation Paperclip; though cursory, I thought it was a nice addition.

I had reviewed this title in its audio book format, which was read by the author Jacobsen. Many WW2DB visitors might already know that I would always enjoy authors reading their own books, for that no one would know the nuances of the words and sentences better than those who authored them. I thought Jacobsen did a fine job.

I found Operation Paperclip to be a good book on this topic. To say the least, it certainly re-sparked my interest in learning about how German talent contributed to the technological advances of the United States, Britain, and the Soviet Union.

Another example of the lovely individuals recruited by the United States after WW2 (note that this Nazi scientist met Hitler multiple times, used slave labor during the war with Holocaust victims and fired rockets against the rules of war):

Walter Dornberger
Surname Dornberger
Given Name Walter
Born 6 Sep 1895
Died 27 Jun 1980
Country Germany, United States
Category Science-Engineering
Gender Male

Walter Dornberger was born in Gießen in central Germany in 1895. He enlisted in the Germany army in 1914 and was promoted to the rank of lieutenant in the artillery before becoming captured by United States Marines. He was a prisoner of war between 1918 and 1920; because of multiple escape attempts, he spent a good deal of time in solitary confinement. He earned a master's degree in mechanical engineering in the spring of 1930 from Technische Hochschule Charlottenburg in Berlin, Germany. Shortly after, in Apr 1930, he was appointed to the Ballistics Council of the Weapons Department of the Germany Army to secretly develop a liquid fuel rocket. He was present at the Kummersdorf weapons research center near Berlin in Dec 1932 when a rocket being lit by Wernher von Braun exploded. In Oct 1934, he was given command of a powder rocket training battery at Königsbrück; this would be his last military command. In 1935, he received a honorary doctorate degree from the same institution, arranged by Dean of the Faculty of Military Technology Colonel Karl Emil Becker. In May 1937, he was transferred to the Peenemünde Army Research Center on the Baltic Sea coast, where he was to focus on the development of rockets. In Sep 1942, he was given operational responsibility of the V-1 flying bomb and V-2 rocket research programs. On 3 Oct 1942, a V-2 rocket was launched successfully. On 7 Jul 1943, Major General Dornberger, along with Braun, was flown to the Wolfsschanze headquarters to meet with Adolf Hitler, where they would present the German leader a film of the successful Oct 1942 V-2 rocket launch. In Dec 1944, he was given complete control over the development of anti-aircraft rocket development. In Feb 1945, as Soviet troops advanced, he relocated his headquarters from Schwedt-an-der-Oder to Bad Sachsa near Göttingen in central Germany. Around this time, he hid his papers near Bad Sachsa; these papers were later found by troops of US 332nd Engineer Regiment. Two months later, he relocated again to Haus Ingeborg in Oberjoch near Hindelang in southern Germany. On 2 May 1945, Dornberger, Braun, and five others departed Haus Ingeborg for Austria; after passing through Adolf-Hitler-Pass (now Oberjoch Pass) they ran into American troops and became detained. They were officially listed as under arrest on the following day. He was transferred to London, England, United Kingdom in mid-Aug 1945 and was investigated for the use of slave labor in the production of V-2 rockets, which was against the rules of war. He was released from imprisonment in 1947 and then was brought to the United States as a part of Operation Paperclip, which recruited German talent for American scientific research. Between 1947 and 1950, he worked with the United States Air Force in the development of guided missiles. Between 1950 and 1965, he worked for the Bell Aircraft Corporation, reaching the position of a vice president by the time he departed from the company; among the many projects he worked on included the revolutionary GAM-63 Rascal supersonic air-to-surface nuclear missile. After his retirement in 1965, he moved to Mexico for some time before returning to Germany. He passed away in southwestern Germany in 1980.

Source: Annie Jacobsen, Operation Paperclip: The Secret Intelligence Program that Brought Nazi Scientists to America

http://ww2db.com/person_bio.php?perso...

The NAZI war-criminals who worked for NASA, CIA etc (Investigated by Annie Jacobsen) https://www.goodreads.com/videos/1181...

Cookevillian recalls secret Operation Paperclip http://herald-citizen.com/stories/coo...