Flights of Fantasy discussion

As I mentioned previously, I am about to TRY to all in on the Universe of Xuya series.

The Universe of Xuya is... a sci-fi alt-history series that appears to be pretty wide ranging.

The History:(view spoiler)[

The premise of Xuya is that China discovered the Americas before the West, and that the exploration of this new continent prevented China from sinking inwards (not to mention being invaded by the Manchu, who later founded the ill-fated Qing dynasty, China’s last imperial dynasty).

You’ll notice this is only partially filled (one of the most glaring omissions being the 20th Century): there’s a lot of corners of this universe where I haven’t quite decided what happened yet, and I’m basically leaving blanks until I can firm up the timeline.

A couple keypoints worth noting in this new chronology: the early arrival of the Chinese brought smallpox much ahead of schedule, devastating the native populations about a century before our timeline. By the time Colombus arrives on the scene, most of the Mexica are considered to be already immunised to the pox.

Also, due to the success of maritime expeditions, the Chinese capital does not move back to the isolated, northern city of Beijing, but remains in Nanjing, a town much closer to the sea, where the Emperor can keep an eye on the maritime traffic.
A stronger Chinese empire means one that is much less vulnerable to Western predations: though the 19th century isn’t conflict-free, it’s not quite the disaster that it was in the real world. As a result, the Empire survives the turn of the 20th century, though it becomes more equalitarian (notably admitting women into the ranks of its officials in the middle of the 20th century and authorising polyandry).

Xuya is used in the beginning to refer to the whole continent, but after the independence it becomes the name of the new country of Chinese Ancestry on the West Coast. The government is modelled on that of the motherland: an emperor, a Grand Secretariat, and a meritocracy of scholars recruited through state-wide examinations. The capital of Xuya is Dongjing (Capital of the East), but the most dynamic city is Fenliu (roughly in the same location as today’s San Francisco).

Greater Mexica covers today’s Mexico and a large northern part overlapping Texas, Arizona, Lousiana, Florida and New Mexico. Its capital is Tenochtitlan (in the same location as Mexico City). It’s more of an oligarchy than an empire: though it has a supreme ruler in the person of the Revered Speaker, the position is only semi-hereditary, the new Revered Speaker being chosen by the highest officials from those of imperial blood.

The US is much smaller than today, amputated of its western and southern regions. In the 20th-21st Century, it underwent a period of economic depression and isolationism, with an overt racist policy prohibiting mixed-race relationships. (and, uh, yes, there is still a United States, mainly because the Chinese don’t make much progress moving eastwards, just as the English didn’t make much progress westwards in the first decades of the colonisation process. There are still English ships landing in Virginia, and the history of the United States is pretty much the same, barring minor details, at least up to the end of the 18th Century).

Other major players in the region include Tawantinsuyu, the Inca Empire (which, again, is larger than its 15th-century counterpart), and the Mayas, who hold the bit of Central America the Mexica haven’t conquered (south of Mexico’s current location).

You’ll be wondering about Asia. So far, the only thing I’ve worked on is the history of Vietnam/Đại Việt, which goes pretty much on schedule till the 18th century (mid Tây Sơn period). The one thing that happened in history and which doesn’t happen here is the rise of the Nguyễn in 1802, Vietnam’s last dynasty: China is still strong enough to send invasion troops, which are not defeated, while the French, desperate for a colonial empire of their own, are keen to occupy Đại Việt (instead of supporting the first Nguyễn Emperor Gia Long with money, men and guns, as they did in our time period). There is thus a brief period when the South of Đại Việt is occupied by France, and the North by China–both countries fighting each other by proxy at the boundary. This ends through a combination of events–internal and external troubles, which lead to the rise of a new Việt emperor. This new dynasty spearheads Việt independence: the country will never again be subject to Chinese rule, though it is a loose part of the Chinese influence sphere. It also marks a departure from the strict Confucianism that had marked the court till then–which prevents Vietnam from closing up like a clam.
In the 20th Century, Đại Việt, like the rest of Asia, goes through a period of poverty and political instability, which leads to the arrival of many Đại Việt in Xuya. You can see a few of those in Foreign Ghosts, the unpublished Xuya novel (and their descendants in The Shipmaker).

(hide spoiler)]

Stories in Publication order: http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?3...
✔The Lost Xuyan Bride (2007) [SF]
✔Butterfly, Falling at Dawn (2008)
✔Fleeing Tezcatlipoca (2010)
✔The Jaguar House, in Shadow (2010) also in Of Wars, and Memories, and Starlight
The Shipmaker (2010) also in Of Wars, and Memories, and Starlight
✔Shipbirth (2011)
Scattered Along the River of Heaven (2012) http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/de_bo... also in Of Wars, and Memories, and Starlight
Immersion (2012) http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/debod... also in Of Wars, and Memories, and Starlight
Ship's Brother (2012)
Two Sisters in Exile (2012)
✔Starsong (2012)
✔On a Red Station, Drifting (2012)
The Weight of a Blessing (2013) http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/debod...
✔The Waiting Stars (2013) also in Of Wars, and Memories, and Starlight
Memorials (2014) https://www.apex-magazine.com/memorials/ also in Of Wars, and Memories, and Starlight
The Breath of War (2014) http://www.beneath-ceaseless-skies.co... also in Of Wars, and Memories, and Starlight
The Days of the War, as Red as Blood, as Dark as Bile (2014) https://subterraneanpress.com/magazin... also in Of Wars, and Memories, and Starlight
The Frost on Jade Buds (2014) [SF]
A Slow Unfurling of Truth (2014)
Three Cups of Grief, by Starlight (2015) also in Of Wars, and Memories, and Starlight
The Citadel of Weeping Pearls (2015)
In Blue Lily's Wake (2015)
A Salvaging of Ghosts (2016) [SF] - http://www.beneath-ceaseless-skies.co... also in Of Wars, and Memories, and Starlight
Crossing the Midday Gate (2016) [SF] - https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fi...
A Hundred and Seventy Storms (2016) [SF] https://uncannymagazine.com/article/h...
Pearl (2016) [SF] also in Of Wars, and Memories, and Starlight
The Dragon That Flew Out of the Sun (2017) [SF]
The Tea Master and the Detective (2018) [SF]

Chronological Order (plus details from author)

The Modern Era
Circa 1982: Revered Speaker Ixtli is named to the head of Greater Mexica by a divided council. Anxious to establish his legitimacy, he purges the council and the government at all levels. This degenerates into a bloodbath, and a rebel faction seizes the opportunity to start a civil war.

1985-1992: Mexica Civil War. The war ends when Palli, a youth of imperial blood, seeks shelter in Xuya, and gives the Xuyans a pretext to intervene in their neighbours’ affairs. After a protracted invasion, Palli is instated as Revered Speaker in 1992, conducting a policy of open trade.

1986: Events of “The Jaguar House, in Shadow” (Asimov’s, July 2010).

1990: Events of “Fleeing Tezcatlipoca” (Space and Time, June 2010 issue).

2004: Racial riots in Fenliu, started by a magistrate ignorant of Mayan rites.

2005: Events of “The Lost Xuyan Bride” (Interzone, issue 213, November 2007).

2006: Events of “Butterfly, Falling at Dawn” (Interzone, issue 219, November 2008. Reprinted in The Year’s Best Science Fiction: Twenty-Sixth Annual Collection

2009: Events of Foreign Ghosts (unpublished novel).

The Space Age
21st century: The development of Minds, large AIs capable of piloting ships into deep space, soon becomes the key to colonising space.
Somewhere in the 21st-22nd century:
-events of “Starsong” (Asimov’s, July 2012). The events in “Starsong” are the inciting incident that leads to the development of Minds.
-events of “Shipbirth” (Asimov’s, February 2011)
-events of “The Shipmaker” (Interzone 231. Reprinted in The Year’s Best Science Fiction: Twenty-Eighth Annual Collection).
-events of “Ship’s Brother”, Interzone July 2012
-events of “Two Sisters in Exile”, Solaris Rising 1.5
-events of “Three Cups of Grief, by Starlight”, Clarkesworld, January 2015
-events of “In Blue Lily’s Wake”, Meeting Infinity, ed Jonathan Strahan, December 2015
-events of “Crossing the Midday Gate”, To Shape the Dark, ed Athena Andreadis, May 2016
-events of “A Salvaging of Ghosts”, Beneath Ceaseless Skies, March 2016
-events of “Pearl”, The Starlit Wood ed. Navah Wolfe and Dominik Parisien, Saga Press, October 2016

Also somewhere in the 22nd Century but in another corner of space altogether:
-events of “Scattered Along the River of Heaven”, Clarkesworld, January 2012
-events of “Immersion”, Clarkesworld, June 2012
-events of On a Red Station, Drifting, Immersion Press, December 2012
-events of “The Days of the War, as Red as Blood, as Dark as Bile”, Subterranean Spring 2014 issue
-events of “The Weight of a Blessing”, Clarkesworld, March 2013
-events of “Memorials”, in Asimov’s. Reprinted in Apex Magazine, June 2016
-events of “The Waiting Stars”, The Other Half of the Sky, ed. Athena Andreadis, 2013
-events of “A Slow Unfurling of Truth”, Carbide-Tipped Pens, 2014
-events of “The Frost on Jade Buds”, Solaris Rising 3, 2014
-events of “The Citadel of Weeping Pearls”, Asimov’s Oct/Nov 2015 issue
-events of “A Hundred and Seventy Storms”, Uncanny Magazine July 2016 issue

Those are my “colonised space stations” stories, which take place in a corner of space where a Galactic (Western) culture rubs against a diminished imperial Chinese/Vietnamese culture. I didn’t specifically write them as part of the Xuyan universe, but they became part of the larger chronology with the bridge work On a Red Station, Drifting, the novella with Immersion Press, which has both a space station and the Minds characteristics of the Xuya continuity in space.
(and yup, the universe is totally getting bigger all the time. Hopefully there’ll be space for a larger-scale planetary romance or space opera-y sort of thing where I get to blow up ships and feature awesome characters)

And in a completely different corner of space:
–“The Breath of War”, Beneath Ceaseless Skies March 2014

I started at the beginning (of course) and read The Lost Xyuan Bride last night. It was really good but not the space opera I was expecting.

I would say it was more like The Dispatcher in that its a mystery more so than a focus on typical sci-fi elements.

I'm going to start "Butterfly, Falling at Dawn" sometime tonight or tomorrow. It's a little hard to locate BUT I did find it! You can read it (free) here: https://internationalsf.wordpress.com...

Or you can by a copy here from Amazon: https://amzn.to/2qUhpyd This book is an anthology named The Year's Best Science Fiction: Twenty-Sixth Annual Collection

Finished!


(view spoiler)[This story is another Sci-fi alt-history [murder] mystery. Again it follows an MC who is not Xuyan by birth or rearing - instead has chosen to live in Xuya due to circumstances in their past.

This story was interesting but the most interesting part of it was the...issues of the MC (and all the Mexica refugees).

I am not sure how much time has passed between "The Lost Xuyan Bride" and this one - but it appears that more than 12-15 years has passed. There has been a terrible civil war in Mexica and a lot of people migrated to Xuya. The MC and the victim are both refugees.

The story presented an interesting picture of what it means to be changed by a war - how it changes the core of who you are and the actions you take. And its all wrapped up in a mystery!

Yet again, I have not seen a single space ship. This means I have a lot of chronological history to still get through in order to get to the space parts. From what I remember of the space-related short I read, the Đại Việt (Vietnam) will also migrate to Xuya - since the Đại Việt were the ones in the ship(s). What this means in relation to the timeline, I don't know.

But it sure is fascinating - especially since I "know" where its going to go but I have no clue as to how long it will take or what it will be like getting there. (hide spoiler)]

Ok. Moving on to "Fleeing Tezcatlipoca."

This one was damn near impossible to find, tbh. Even the author's links to purchase are bad and the Magazine that published - Space and Time Magazine - is going out of business and their records don't go back that far.

I googled the shit out of this story and finally found it. I found a copy for sale via Weightless Books. They are (currently) selling Space and Time Magazine Issue #111 here for $2.99: https://weightlessbooks.com/format/sp...

MrsJoseph wrote: "This one was damn near impossible to find, tbh. Even the author's links to purchase are bad and the Magazine that published - Space and Time Magazine - is ..."

You're having quite an adventure tracking all of these down! What I'd really love to see is a collected edition of the Xuya stories, or lacking that, a healthy selection of them.

Beth wrote: "You're having quite an adventure tracking all of these down! What I'd really love to see is a collected edition of the Xuya stories, or lacking that, a healthy selection of them."

I would LOVE that. In whatever order she wished, as long in 1-2 books.

I wonder if fans contacted her and asked her about it, if she'd look into it. I'd donate to a Kickstarter for that.


(I'd also dump a shitton into a kickstarter for Martha Wells to put the current batch of snippets on Patreon into a single book.

16-Nov-18: Finished "Fleeing Tezcatlipoca."

"Fleeing Tezcatlipoca" - for me - is really only interesting due to the importance it has to the alt-history timeline.

"Fleeing Tezcatlipoca" feels like a transitory piece with not a lot of real lief outside of that transition. There's no real sci-fi or cool things of that nature. It's solidly closer in nature to pure alt-history rather than SFF. "Fleeing Tezcatlipoca" is about just that: refugees from a beginning Civil war and what appears to be a political (and bloodline) purging are trying desperately to get to Xuya for safety.

Also finished "The Jaguar House, in Shadow." "The Jaguar House, in Shadow" is also closer in nature to alt-history but there are some - few - sci-fi elements. "The Jaguar House, in Shadow" takes place in the middle of the purging as well. The sci-fi elements are very few: nano-tech used sparingly to help the MC get to a prisoner held in the Jaguar House.

Planning to start "The Shipmaker" sometime this weekend.

It was very easy to locate - almost as easy as "The Jaguar House, in Shadow."

It can be located here: http://www.starshipsofa.com/blog/2011...

I am SO not finding "shipbirth." Anywhere.

So, after lots and lots of time searching, I decided to spend more time sourcing materials first. I'm pretty sure I'm 100% sourced...so now back to reading.

With a conundrum: should I read in publication order or chronological order??!

Nicki wrote: "After I tracked down that reading order the other night, my own curiosity was stoked, so I started reading through the stories. I'm up to Scattered Along the River of Heaven. I lack intelligent com..."

ARG! I hate you. Also I love you. Where are you currently?

Ok. I decided against reading "Shipbirth" and went with Chronological order (after having read the first part in publication order).

"Shipsong" was different than the other pieces I'd read previous - but NOT too different than "The Waiting Stars."

It felt lyrical but sad. It showed how even friendship can be broken by bullying.

Finished up On a Red Station, Drifting with the group.

When you get to The Citadel of Weeping Pearls, let me know. Kaa in SFFBC piqued my interest in that one. :)

Becky wrote: "When you get to The Citadel of Weeping Pearls, let me know. Kaa in SFFBC piqued my interest in that one. :)"

Will do!

Shipbirth, found in this mag: Asimov's Science Fiction, February 2011

It (again) was sad. I'm...not a fan of how Minds come to be. The reasons the Galactics give for hating the Dai Viet appear to be true: they sacrifice living women to make AIs. That is hard to swallow.

MrsJoseph wrote: "Shipbirth, found in this mag: Asimov's Science Fiction, February 2011

It (again) was sad. I'm...not a fan of how Minds come to be. The reasons the Galactics give for hating the Dai..."

Hmm... I feel like there's a metaphor there. Like, for instance, women throughout history who only existed to birth and raise nationalistic, loyal sons who will further the goals of the regime/king/whatever.

This is a bit different, and I maybe shouldn't comment having so little knowledge of the story and world and culture (less than 50 pages worth isn't a lot) but... that's the feeling I get from your comment.

That maybe somewhat true. The culture thing helps stop me from making those connections.

In this series, though, the Minds are part machine even when in the womb. Most of the women who birth Minds either die or become vegetables. IDK. It feels more as if they are truly sacrificing these women vs encouraging procreation. I would think that if you've achieved to THIS point of starflight, you'd be able to create an artificial womb.

"Xoco would have cooked for Huexotl; combed her hair every morning; massaged the mound of flesh in which the Mind rested, snug and tidy—readying her for the last and most dangerous part of the quickening: the moment when the womb was breached, and the Mind punched its way out, seeking to tether itself to the core in the heart-room—breathing life into the ship, bending the rooms, passageways, and corridors to its will."

And


"Mother moved through the glass panes of their home, the way she always did: carefully and quietly, as if every gesture might break an unexpected bone;"

and

“Minds aren't only in the womb. They're in the body and spirit, in a very real sense. Sometimes, they can't disentangle themselves from their bearers."

Yeah, I see what you mean. Though, in Red Station, it seemed different because they were high status, important, etc. How is that possible if it's like that?

"“Grand Master of Design Harmony, like her mother and grandmother and great-great-grandmother before her. A shaper of metal and of synthetics; a dreamer of buildings and of wind and water.”
A hole was opening in Quyen’s belly. “She made Prosper Station.”
“Her ancestor,” the Honoured Ancestress corrected, but it made no difference. Quyen’s ancestor had borne the Honoured Ancestress in her belly; but this Lady Oanh’s ancestor had made every nook and cranny of Prosper Station, shaping the flow of the five elements over the station until the Honoured Ancestress could slip into its structure as easily as into tailored robes.
She made...Quyen stopped. She thought of the chambers of the Honoured Ancestress, the place where Her physical body rested, which would open to no one but a Grand Master of Grand Design Harmony."

So... this makes it seem like it's a family business, something that they've worked to achieve and perfect, not something against their will.

No, it's not against their will. It gave the impression the girls are not told what will happen to them in truth. Nor the high risk of them either dying in birth or losing their minds and becoming a non-responsive vegetable. Those, they kill.

"Atempan was one of the sixteen clans, one of the greatest and oldest, going back all the way to Old Earth. To find a member of the Old Nobility reduced to this, waiting in this impersonal room for the ignominious coda to her life . . ."

"The contractions started thirteen days ago.” Xoco shook her head. She'd have been there since the start, of course—since Huexotl had come to the ship, her belly distended by the mid-stages of the pregnancy, her face no doubt shining with the anticipation of her glory.


The MC of the story had a gender reassignment after watching his sister die birthing a Mind. The story says that the MC and her sister used to plan for birthing Minds like young girls now plan weddings. Until the sister died in agonizing Mind birth.

I can't imagine what kind of horror that she saw that made her reject her gender. I mean, she wasn't a man stuck in a woman's body.

Her eyes slid sideways, seemingly staring at the wall behind him. Dead, he thought, and clamped down on the thought. That was what he was here to determine: if there was still a chance she could be saved—fixed, in order to bear other Minds, to waste her blood and water birthing those monstrosities that moved in the planes between the stars . .


I kept thinking - these kids are bamboozled. They think they will get A but in reality get B.

Hmm... Interesting.