Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

I'm not going to stick up for Trump's name calling at times. I don't like that he found Stormy Daniels ok to sleep with but then publicly calls her horse face. But that concert is WAY down my voting priority level.

I would also argue that Trump hasn't probably seen the best side of women either......

Scott wrote: "Lance wrote: "And here's 18 quick examples... https://www.huffpost.com/entry/18-rea..."

I don't really see anything wrong with mos..."

You don't see anything wrong with this? “You know, it doesn’t really matter what [the media] write as long as you’ve got a young and beautiful piece of ass.”

Or this? "While @BetteMidler is an extremely unattractive woman, I refuse to say that because I always insist on being politically correct."

Or this? "...he sent me a copy of the column with my picture circled and ‘The Face of a Dog!’ written over it.” (Gail Collins).

Or this? “Cher is somewhat of a loser. She’s lonely. She’s unhappy. She’s very miserable.”

Does that sound like a president to you?

Elizabeth wrote: "I would also argue that Trump hasn't probably seen the best side of women either......"

Well if his words and actions are a reflection of what he really thinks of women I wouldn't wonder, Elizabeth. Even IF he really was the Right's last hope, he's the last person I'd vote to lead my country if I was an American and more so if I was a woman.

I'm proud to vote for Trump. He treats me as an American voter, not a special interest group.

I've seen no actions by Trump's administration that I find harmful to women. I find the Democratic platform far more anti women than anything I see from the Republicans

Lance wrote: "You don't see anything wrong with this?..."

What he's saying is that if you've got a woman who makes you happy you don't care how people talk about you. Bit crudely put but no, nothing wrong with it.

Bette Midler and Cher have both proven to be extremely unpleasant people. I'd be interested to know what they did to elicit such comments. Surely he didn't just drop them out of the blue.

Gail Collins, no idea who that is, okay kind of mean, you got me there.

Elizabeth wrote: "I'm proud to vote for Trump. He treats me as an American voter, not a special interest group.

I've seen no actions by Trump's administration that I find harmful to women. I find the Democratic pl..."

It seems most female voters disagree with you. Trump has lost the female vote by the looks. And I for one can understand why.

Scott wrote: "Lance wrote: "You don't see anything wrong with this?..."

What he's saying is that if you've got a woman who makes you happy you don't care how people talk about you. Bit crudely put but no, nothi..."

Spare me, Scott. We must agree to disagree.

Signing out for the day. (Whew)!

Have a great weekend everyone.

If you don't vote for Biden, you ain't a woman!

Elizabeth wrote: "I'm not going to stick up for Trump's name calling at times. I don't like that he found Stormy Daniels ok to sleep with but then publicly calls her horse face. But that concert is WAY down my votin..."

JFK might've been a piece of work, deep down too...Maybe even a monster in his personal life, you never know.

An angel in terms of sticking up for the common people tho...

Scott wrote: "If you don't vote for Biden, you ain't a woman!"

"C'mon, man!" -Biden

"We must not let the virus rule our lives." -Trump

😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳 uuuhhhh oooohhhhhh

Sorry, Elizabeth, but I don't believe much of anything that Fox News puts out. That's a website that supports the folks in the "radical right" (whatever it's called). I'm not a conservative. Maybe it's okay for you, but I don't believe anything coming from Fox News. Joe Biden is a decent guy, and he has leadership ability.

Kodai wrote: "Bonnie wrote: "Sorry, Elizabeth, but I don't believe much of anything that Fox News puts out. That's a website that supports the folks in the "radical right" (whatever it's called). I'm not a conse..."

Ummm... I note the NY Post newsflash you quote cites Fox News as the source for that particular allegation in its intro (below). Not sure if we can read anything into that?

"An email thread that appears to show Hunter Biden pursuing a lucrative energy business deal in China — and possibly cutting his father in on the action — has been verified as authentic by one of its recipients, Fox News reported Friday night."

Your thoughts?

Kodai wrote: "Lance wrote: "Kodai wrote: "Bonnie wrote: "Sorry, Elizabeth, but I don't believe much of anything that Fox News puts out. That's a website that supports the folks in the "radical right" (whatever i..."

Thanks for the clarification Kodai. Sure is a seedy buildup to an election isn't it?

Bonnie wrote: "Joe Biden is a decent guy ..."

"there are none so blind as those who will not see"

Kodai wrote: "We're living in an episode of Monty Python's Flying Circus."

Or Blackadder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6mJw...

Scott wrote: "Kodai wrote: "We're living in an episode of Monty Python's Flying Circus."

Or Blackadder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6mJw..."

Classic! Hard to beat British humour. (The tragedy is the US presidential election may be even funnier)...

Kodai wrote: "Bonnie wrote: "Sorry, Elizabeth, but I don't believe much of anything that Fox News puts out. That's a website that supports the folks in the "radical right" (whatever it's called). I'm not a conse..."

Thank you for your opinion. Now go away...

Bonnie wrote: "Thank you for your opinion. Now go away......"

Sucks when virtually all Americans share sooooooo many similar values, but actually get brainwashed into thinking they are radically different than 50% of other their fellow citizenry...and even get taught to detest the other half, or 165million Americans... Divide and Conquer at its finest.

I disagree with much of what Bonnie's saying on the Left in this thread as it feels naïve to me that Joe and these current breed of Democrats are nice fair people and Trump is Hitler in the making... but I also think on the Right in this thread, some of Kodai's posts are a little over-the-top saying it's virtually guaranteed there'll be a civil war in the US. I sense the truth is somewhere more in the middle ground and things are not as extreme politically as is being made out.

Hopefully one way or another things will settle down again after the election. And more importantly for my money, I hope we we get all of our freedoms back that we have lost this year!

I'm not denying, Kodai, the civil war or at least increasing anarchy all over the US is a possibility. Only a blind man would disagree with that possibility given all the violent "protests" nationwide this year. And maybe it's even a distinct possibility.

However, to say civil war is guaranteed and there is no other more peaceful scenario that could occur, is what I disagree with.

There are always various possible futures.

Great interview with John Lydon, including his thoughts on Trump and "socialism":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmHyo...

It's a bit strange, but I've had the sense here of late that we are headed toward a civil war, as well. This isn't a well-articulated premonition for me. It's more simple--a bad feeling about something awful coming.

I get these kinds of premonitions off-and-on in my life. Sometimes they develop over a period of time to the point where I can "see" in my mind's eye the physical aspects of the "Stranger Things"... the "bad stranger things" that are coming, because I'm in the midst of the flow of events that are darkening, and they feel "ominous" or "threatening" to me.

I certainly don't like when I get these sensations. They usually lead to dream premonitions, where I can see something develop in my world--a "period event". I hate getting those -- I can't shake them out of my consciousness. They linger, and they lurk, and they pop up here and there, now and then, until something actually manifests.

For awhile, I was reading books about psychic awareness, trying to pin down what I was experiencing -- if I was just paranoid, or if I was beginning to become physically ill, and the symptoms manifested as a result. I never was able to link my premonitions with any kind of physical illness. (I've been pretty healthy all of my life.)

On one or two occasions I have dreamed about something about to happen to someone I knew -- usually a friend, or a family member. I shared what I dreamed, and always, my relative or my friend would "poo-poo" the idea that I was sharing a real premonition. Generally, my premonitions were negative in nature, "warnings" that maybe I could do something to sidestep. Or they were warnings that I could tell somebody else to sidestep.

Generally, nobody ever wants to believe that a premonition or a vision is a real-live warning (from "God", ostensibly). So I quit telling people about what I was seeing after awhile. Gradually, my premonitions have decreased. But I'm not discounting the possibility that I might have one again sometime. I'd really rather have a warning that I can do something about, than no warning at all, and then get smacked down by a car driving too fast on the road I'm walking on, hitting me in the back and throwing me off a cliff... or an event something of that sort.

Bonnie wrote: "It's a bit strange, but I've had the sense here of late that we are headed toward a civil war, as well. This isn't a well-articulated premonition for me. It's more simple--a bad feeling about somet..."

Best not overthink things Bonnie. The sun is shining and I'm sure it'll be shining tomorrow. As we say Down Under, She'll be right, mate.

Good talk by James Lindsay:

https://newdiscourses.com/2020/10/bid...

Really good!

Good to see yesterday's presidential debate was a little more civilized... Who won it? And what do latest US polls indicate?

According to the polls 53% of Americans say Biden did.

Rachel wrote: "According to the polls 53% of Americans say Biden did."

Thanks Rachel. That's close.

A word for Trump’s advisors if they care about his election chances…

US television news reports today state that “Coronavirus cases across the United States surpassed 75,000 new cases on Friday (and) US Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams warned it could be the worst week since the pandemic began…And more state leaders have sounded the alarm on increasing infections, hospitalizations and deaths.”

Meanwhile, Trump insists, “It will go away, and as I say, we're rounding the turn. We're rounding the corner. It's going away." And he (says he) is still confident a vaccine will be ready “very soon...maybe within two or three weeks."

Question: When Trump utters such balderdash, do Americans – those with an IQ higher than 10 at least – actually believe what he says? If not, could someone please tell him not to keep underestimating the intelligence of Americans? It’s truly embarrassing.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/23/po...

Lance wrote: "A word for Trump’s advisors if they care about his election chances…

US television news reports today state that “Coronavirus cases across the United States surpassed 75,000 new cases on Friday (a..."

Lance wrote: "Rachel wrote: "According to the polls 53% of Americans say Biden did."

Thanks Rachel. That's close."

I don't know about that. Biden actually has 54% now, Trump has 39%, and 8% didn't know, or didn't have an opinion.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10...


2nd part, No. If anything we haven't reached the peak, after all it is winter. On top of that, even if we have a vaccine there'll still be people who will be iffy or opposed to taking it. Unless of course they're planning on forcing people to take it.

Kodai - You make it all sound very black and white... Left vs. Right... No shades of gray. If u look for the good in a party you'll find it just as u will find the bad in another. Just sayin'...

Or perhaps my imagination's working overtime...again?

Which state are you in Kodai?

Have you got any plans in case some fireworks go off after the election?

Kodai wrote: "In the US right now it is black and white.
Joe Biden is compromised by the CCP via his son and the shady deals he is complaisant in.

I already voted straight GOP, not because I think they're a gr..."

I guess you need to balance Biden's shady deals against Trump's shady shit. Not much of a choice is it?

Kodai wrote: "Lance wrote: "Kodai wrote: "In the US right now it is black and white.
Joe Biden is compromised by the CCP via his son and the shady deals he is complaisant in.

I already voted straight GOP, not ..."

If that's the case I'd be sorely tempted not to vote if I was eligible.

Latest odds from the bookies have suddenly widened again, placing Trump a bigger outsider again (What happened in the debate, did he lose it I assume? I never watched it as getting bored)...

Biden $1.47

Trump $2.75

Kodai wrote: "If Amy Barrett is actually seated on Monday, the odds will shift because the fix that was in will be in jeopardy of being declared invalid. If the unsolicited/unregistered ballots are thrown out/nullified. Trump will win and everybody knows it...."

Oh ok, so you think the betting odds are reflecting the rigged nature rather than a genuine landslide of support for Biden?

It's funny how a lot of the media are also painting it as if Trump has close to zero chance of winning. Maybe the want to discourage some voters who might vote for Trump if they think it's a live election? But you've also gotta wonder, if they paint it as a foregone conclusion Biden will win, then will that discourage some Democrats from voting? Or is the psychological manipulation more due to the fact that people enjoy voting for the person they think will win?

Lance wrote: "A word for Trump’s advisors if they care about his election chances…

US television news reports today state that “Coronavirus cases across the United States surpassed 75,000 new cases on Friday (a..."

I think most of us Americans (well, over 50% anyway) have reached the conclusion that Donald Trump is - first and foremost - a liar. He says all kinds of things, but he only says what he thinks will win over whoever he's talking to. Basically, Trump thinks people are all idiots. Only HE has a brain... so anything he says to the rest of us is for the purpose of getting our complicity in his latest scam... or he's just trying to button us up so we stop complaining about his crimes. He thinks he's a genius....the rest of us, he thinks we're morons. (I sincerely hope this election will see the exit of Donald J. Trump, and the entrance of Joseph Biden,) who I hope will prove to be a real leader of our people.

Beau, I totally get where you're coming from.

I'm tired of it.

So I guess this is farewell, folks.

is that all you got Bonnie? you could say that about both candidates - everyone who has ever been president.

Scott wrote: "is that all you got Bonnie? you could say that about both candidates - everyone who has ever been president."

Exactly!

Catching politicians, especially US presidents, for lying or being corrupt, would be like handing out speeding tickets to drivers at the Indy 500!

Extraordinary how people have been brainwashed by the media into thinking Trump is the most despicable person ever to helm the Oval Office.

And yet they never report things like he's the first US President ever (my best guess) to not start any new wars. That might mean nothing to Americans, but trust me to people all over the world who have seen bombs dropping year after year with "MADE IN THE USA" written on them, this alone is major progress.

What Trump is doing in the Middle East is monumental. It certainly will not solve all problems but it will bring a number of people out of absolutely poverty in those areas and that is the beginning to solutions of other problems. You have to have a somewhat educated population to run the commercial areas that are going to open up. General lack of education in the population contributes largely to these tyrants ability to lead - therefore enpowering any section of your population to move forward economically and educationally can begin amazing movements at grassroots levels.

I feel this has been completely overlooked by our media here because it was Trump that did it and that is a shame.

TOTALLY disagree, Elizabeth.

Make no mistake, this is the worst thing ever for the Palestinians. "Normalizing" with a nation that repeatedly breaks international laws (Israeli settlements) is not cool. Tragic for Palestinians in fact. Trump has been BY FAR the worst president ever for the millions of Palestinians (50% of whom are children and most are refugees) -- the writing was on the wall when he allowed Israel to make Jerusalem the capital.

Note also that the populations in the Arab countries that have signed normalization deals with Israel (e.g. UAE, Bahrain, Sudan) are by and large disgusted with their leaders and are dead against it. What you're dealing with is corrupt fat cat Arab leaders who have signed Trump's ridiculous "Deal of the Century" against their people's wishes. Make no mistake, Arabs remain on the side of the Palestinians.

The reason Trump will prove to be a disaster for the Middle East is he appears to be 100% on the side of Israelis. Zero support or respect to Palestinians.

And nope, this is not an education issue that you allude to. By Trump supporting Netanyahu he's effectively giving up on peace and giving up on a 2-state solution. It's unquestionable support for Ultra Zionism. Period.

If Trump goes, and I hope he stays overall, but if he goes I'll at least be relieved for the Palestinians who are arguably suffering the worst human rights violations of the modern era...

If you wanna see how Palestinians live...

Empire Files: Inside Palestine’s Refugee Camps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxvNZ...

We will have to agree to disagree on this one in most part James.

Agree with much of what you say and I think you're right in all you are implying - these Democrats are the worst Democrats ever!

But to play Devil's Advocate, have you considered there is always cheating and voting fraud in every election? And that there will be forces manipulating the election in Trump's favour also?

For example, in the 2016 election, clearly there were elitist groups trying to install Hillary...But that doesn't mean some factions of the global elite didn't want Trump and didn't work to install him.

Do you ever focus above politics, above politicians and above presidents, at the global elite level?

None of these leaders are ever truly independent and just because Trump was not a politician until 2016 doesn't mean he hasn't got deals with the world's true elitist powers. It doesn't mean he's independent like many diehard Trump-supporters think.

I tend to look on US Presidents as being medium-level only, not the upper echelons of power. After all, presidents come and go and only are in office 4-8 years, but the real power always remains, right? To even become candidates in this era, I sense they have to agree to a lot upfront and are very restricted in what they can do.

Cabal?-is this to what you are speaking?

Elizabeth wrote: "We will have to agree to disagree on this one in most part James."

What exactly do you disagree with Elizabeth?

Do you disagree that “this is Tragic for Palestinians” or “It's unquestionable support for Ultra Zionism” or “What you're dealing with is corrupt fat cat Arab leaders who have signed Trump's ridiculous "Deal of the Century" against their people's wishes.” ???

I don’t disagree that the rich will get richer. And I’m not gonna say this will benefit the Palestinian cause.

I do however believe that creating these new economic engines at a larger scale because of the number of participants will inevitably create some education and some increase in income for a percentage of the Middle Eastern population. It might be low but I believe it creates an opportunity for a foothold. This is where I understand we disagreement. I feel there will be benefit where James doesn’t as I think he feels the benefit will completely go to the tyrants.

James please jump in if I am misunderstanding or have misstated your opinion or approach in anyway. I’m not trying to speak for you. That is just my understanding of the posts.

Elizabeth wrote: "I don’t disagree that the rich will get richer. And I’m not gonna say this will benefit the Palestinian cause.

I do however believe that creating these new economic engines at a larger scale becau..."

As you allude to Elizabeth - it's hard to see how this will benefit the Palestinian cause. It seems the (undoubted and substantive) benefits to the other parties involved "trump" all else in this recent initiative.

So are we only looking a this from the Palestinian cause?? I guess maybe I am looking at a broader impact regionwide