The Old Curiosity Club discussion
The Old Curiosity Shop
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TOCS: Chapters 1 - 5
Kim wrote: "Quilp's Wharf
Chapter 5
George Cattermole
Text Illustrated:
Daniel Quilp, who was not much affected by a bright morning save in so far as it spared him the trouble of carrying an umbrella, caus..."
This illustration by Cattermole serves as a contrast to Williams’s “The Girl In Her Gentle Slumber.” In this illustration we have another scene in which disorder reigns. In this illustration a building in need of serious repair, an anchor lies forlorn on land, a boat, similarity land-bound, is a skeleton of its former self, a cannon cradle rests without a cannon. In the centre of this illustration is a boy, standing on his head. His world is turned upside down, his energy wasted.
Both Nell and this boy inhabit their separate places that are similarly full of disarray. The major difference is that Nell inhabits her world in peace, her world is one that she sees clearly, accepts, and deals with forthrightly. The boy in this illustration is Quilp’s servant boy. He represents the world of Quilp. Standing on his head, Quilp’s world is one that is distorted, reversed, placed upside down.
Through these two illustrations we see Nell who is at peace with her world, regardless of its confusion and disarray. Quilp’s boy sees and experiences the world as turned upside down. Quilp threatens, bullies, and hits the boy.
These two differing world views, presented in the opening chapters of TOCS, will form the foundation of the sub-plot.
Chapter 5
George Cattermole
Text Illustrated:
Daniel Quilp, who was not much affected by a bright morning save in so far as it spared him the trouble of carrying an umbrella, caus..."
This illustration by Cattermole serves as a contrast to Williams’s “The Girl In Her Gentle Slumber.” In this illustration we have another scene in which disorder reigns. In this illustration a building in need of serious repair, an anchor lies forlorn on land, a boat, similarity land-bound, is a skeleton of its former self, a cannon cradle rests without a cannon. In the centre of this illustration is a boy, standing on his head. His world is turned upside down, his energy wasted.
Both Nell and this boy inhabit their separate places that are similarly full of disarray. The major difference is that Nell inhabits her world in peace, her world is one that she sees clearly, accepts, and deals with forthrightly. The boy in this illustration is Quilp’s servant boy. He represents the world of Quilp. Standing on his head, Quilp’s world is one that is distorted, reversed, placed upside down.
Through these two illustrations we see Nell who is at peace with her world, regardless of its confusion and disarray. Quilp’s boy sees and experiences the world as turned upside down. Quilp threatens, bullies, and hits the boy.
These two differing world views, presented in the opening chapters of TOCS, will form the foundation of the sub-plot.
Kim wrote: "When he did sit down, he tucked up his sleeves and squared his elbows and put his face close to the copybook
Chapter 3
Charles Green
Scenes and Characters from the Works of Charles Dickens
Text..."
Kit’s portrayal in these illustrations reflect his character as it is presented in the opening chapters. Let us file these images away for now.
Chapter 3
Charles Green
Scenes and Characters from the Works of Charles Dickens
Text..."
Kit’s portrayal in these illustrations reflect his character as it is presented in the opening chapters. Let us file these images away for now.

Seconded. I'm glad we've sorted that out.
I didn't realize Nell was 14, Tristram. I took her to be about 9, I guess because of how everyone treats her and also I wouldn't refer to a 14 -year-old as "little." All the 14-year-old girls I know walk around in a haze of everyone marveling at how big they've gotten.


I think one thing that sets Dickens apart from other writers is his ability to create memorable secondary and tertiary characters. Identifying characteristics like idiosyncrasies, exaggerations of physical forms, behavioral tics, and yes, at times, grotesqueries pour from his imagination. The spigot is alway fully open. He leaves the impression that he spends more time creating characters that walk on stage for only a moment of two than other authors spend creating their main characters. But we know this can't be true. He was too prolific, too busy to spend a lot of time on characterization. Yet his characters are often his strongest suit. His mind must have always been creating. A simple walk down the street probably resulted in dozens of ideas.
Remarkable.
And now we meet a mysterious, unnamed narrator, whose physical description, except for his age and an unidentified infirmity, is unclear to us. And it takes only one more chapter to meet Dick Swiveller. One look at that name, and before Swiveller says a word, we know his character.
---------------------
I felt the opening chapter was different, more mature, more grabbing than what came before. Before we meet Nell, through the eyes of an unknown narrator who walks the dark, Dickens creates an ambience of darkness, mystery, and intrigue, and perhaps a bit of horror. It's as if our narrator is not only unnamed but invisible. Then the tap on his arm.

Yes, the only slightly older Nicholas. I've thought and thought about this. What is Dickens doing when he has Nell place her hand in the hand of a much old and unknown man? Her giggling at Kit, the placement of that hand are the behaviors of a child, yet other descriptions of her indicate the age of at least an early adolescent.
I suspect these are ways of establishing innocence (and naivety), but what an unusual (and inappropriate?) way of demonstrating this by placing the one hand in the other. Is Nell that naive at that age? Or is something else going on?
Nell is nothing like Nicholas, but she is naive like Oliver, and Oliver in many ways remained naive until the very end.

The Chas. Green illustration in message #36 is entirely too dark. I suppose Green was attempting to portray not only the darkness of the night, but the darkness of the novel. But it's too much, and makes my head hurt.
The shop as it's shown in #38, the color plate by Foster, is a place where I'd love to shop. Let me get my hands on some of that blue and white transferware!
Grandfather looks entirely too healthy in #46, by McCormick. I picture him as being thinner and a bit more hunched over and care-worn.
Green is at it again with the dark and dismal illustrations in message #50, but it seems like more of a silhouette and works better for me because I don't feel like I'm missing details as I did in the shop picture. This one could easily be used in Our Mutual Friend or Great Expectations just as well -- perhaps even better, as I completely forgot Quilp having to take a boat home. It was obviously one of those descriptive passages that I tend to skim through. I wonder if it will become a plot point as we go on. But for now, it adds a dimension to Nell's trips to see Quilp, knowing she has to cross the river.
Mary Lou wrote: "Re: the illustrations --
The Chas. Green illustration in message #36 is entirely too dark. I suppose green was attempting to portray not only the darkness of the night, but the darkness of the nov..."
Hi Mary Lou
There are many possible meanings to the crossing of a river. Yes, we must wait to see what it could suggest.
The Chas. Green illustration in message #36 is entirely too dark. I suppose green was attempting to portray not only the darkness of the night, but the darkness of the nov..."
Hi Mary Lou
There are many possible meanings to the crossing of a river. Yes, we must wait to see what it could suggest.

I'm a bit surprised that this comparison hasn't already been made (at least directly), but Nell and Quilp reminded me of Little Red Riding Hood and the big, bad wolf. How long before the wolf eats the grandfather (in this case) and tries to do the same to Nell? And who will be the brave woodsman who comes to her rescue? I'll be interested to see if the story goes in that direction.
Has anyone else here visited The Sir John Soane Museum in London? I picture the OCS to be very much like it, only with a more pedestrian collection and dustier.
The book as a whole gives me the feeling of being in a scary fun house, with distorted mirrors, etc. I think it has more to do with the characters than the settings for me. Quilp makes me think of a scary leprechaun. Like Julie, my 21st century sensibilities make me cringe a bit that a character is maligned, in part, for physical abnormalities that can't be helped. But he's got plenty of other attributes that make can make us cringe. These days we often make the mistake of ignoring the fact that someone is just an awful person regardless of whatever might make them a sympathetic minority.
At this early stage, it seems as if Nell is an angelic character sent into the midst of these worldly sinners to... what? Not enough information yet. But the scene with Fred's visit shows us that she seems to look for the good in all, and tries to bring it out of them. She loves and trusts her grandfather, so I want to trust him, too.




I somehow don't think we'll be allowed to make that mistake with Quilp!
That part about crossing the river to get to his house is very interesting. And I love the illustration with the warehouse. Also my favorite character so far is the warehouse boy.

That's a great point. Nell seems to be what people see in her. This too feels a little bit Oliver--with both of them having that core of unimpeachable goodness too, or at least I expect that's what we'll see in Nell.

This is so well portrayed in The Man Who Invented Christmas.

It's not mentioned, Kim.
If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that CD started this as a much shorter story but realized it was taking on momentum, so felt the need to switch from the first person narration to the omniscient. It was a bit jarring, wasn't it? But I'm glad he at least addressed it and didn't just make the transition without comment. I tend to like first person narrations, but it is a bit confining for the author, I suppose.

Dick Swiveller: always makes me think of a swizzle stick :-)
Nell: a nickname for Eleanor, which means "light"
Fred: means "peaceful ruler" - maybe not in this case.
Quilp: brings to mind a couple of things for me. Quill - a feather pen... signing documents or writing letters? Or "yelp" the sound of someone with a sudden pain? The latter might be more appropriate for Betsy than Daniel.
Which brings us to Daniel, which means "judge", and Betsy, probably short for Elizabeth, which means "God's promise".
Kit - my baby name book tells me it's short for Christopher, which means "whimsical, humorous" - apt.
Have I missed anyone?

Re: Grandfather's finances, I agree with Ami that his assets may be tied into the shop. But there's also the comment that Nell couldn't carry the bag of gold that Quilp brought to the shop. Was that symbolic or literal? It seems to me that he's using any liquid assets to try to make a comfortable future for Nell, and doesn't want it squandered by Fred and his profligate associates. But being in league with the likes of Quilp does not bode well.

Well, we ARE dealing with Dickens here, so one can safely assume that any angelic female character is also quite petite. She's even known as "Little Nell", after all. Innocence, purity, and a petite stature - it's no wonder that we think of her as younger. We certainly wouldn't confuse her with the likes of Bella Wilfer in OMF, who has some spirit and, therefore, probably seems older than she really is.


Seconded. I'm glad we've sorted that out.
I didn't realize Nell was 14, Tristram. I took her to be about 9, I guess because of how everyone treats her a..."
I thought the same, Julie... Nell being younger than 14. While I read her to be around 8/9, I’m wondering what I missed that renders her 14. Oops. :)
The illustrations do make her appear cherubian and prepubescent, so that didn’t help my image of her either.

Seconded. I'm glad we've sorted that out.
I didn't realize Nell was 14, Tristram. I took her to be about 9, I guess because of how everyon..."
Let me know, because I missed it too.

Why is Nell regressed with the tears, the hand-holding, and people wondering why she's not supervised? I'm guessing it's to establish her innocence and her character "archetype." I wonder what the Victorians thought about Nell's age and behavior.

When I was unable to find it, I pulled out my Nook and did a word search. I'm baffled to see that her age isn't mentioned until chapter 7, which I haven't yet read! It's mentioned a few times in a conversation between Fred and Dick that she's "nearly fourteen" - so 13, at least in these first few chapters. Now I'm wondering where I came across the information, having not yet read it in the text.

I didn't think there was any way to guess given the seemingly contradictory clues. It's almost as if Nell is a different age to each man.

I like this comparison. It explains Quilp's growling, lip-smacking, eating like an animal, and shaking himself like a dog. If Quilp is the big, bad wolf, he's probably not going to survive the end of the novel.
My thought is that Nell’s age is placed by Dickens in her early teens to establish that she is of an age (in a Victorian time frame) to be seen as a person who would be accepted as being old enough to be fully responsible for her actions. The constant, overly repeated appellation of “Little Nell”, “child”, and other words that point out her size I believe is to establish her vulnerability, her diminutive size, and to suggest her innocence. I like Ami’s word selection of “cheubian and prepubescent.”
Alissa mentions that Nell’s innocence suggests she could well represent the child archetype. We are starting to decode some archetypal patterns. Good stuff.
Alissa mentions that Nell’s innocence suggests she could well represent the child archetype. We are starting to decode some archetypal patterns. Good stuff.

Dick Swiveller: always makes me think of a swizzle stick :-)
Nell: a nickname for Eleanor, which means "light"
Fred: means "peaceful ruler" - maybe not in this case.
Quilp: brings to m..."
Good name list. Here's a couple more:
Trent is a river in England that means, "great wanderer." Grandpa Trent wanders out at night.
Betsy's maiden name is Jiniwin. Jiniwin sounds like "genuine" to me. Her mom, Mrs. Jiniwin, tells it like it is.
Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Grandfather Trent is a lachrymose, egoistic and hypocritical man"
Grandfather Trent is an ass."
But not one that pulls his own weight, unfortunately ;-)
Grandfather Trent is an ass."
But not one that pulls his own weight, unfortunately ;-)
Mary Lou wrote: "I could have sworn I read Nell's age as 14, and Tristram noted it as well. I skimmed back through the first three chapters looking for the passage, but couldn't find it (though the word "child" was..."
Being in charge of the next five chapters, I have already read them, of course, and maybe the information on Nell's real age was, indeed, given for the first time in a conversation between Fred and Dick. I was very surprised, though, when I read it because Nell's first appearance and the way she is treated by her grandfather made me think that she was 10 or 11, at the most. Her way of addressing the first person narrator and of putting her hand in his would certainly be very strange for a 14-year old girl since at that age, a girl no longer behaves like a little child. Also the propensity to cry and to sob is more like the behaviour of a little child. Maybe, the fact that Little Nell is practically isolated from the rest of the world and most children her age - except Kit, who seems to be not the sharpest knife in the drawer -, spending the whole day in the company of her grandfather, may account for her still behaving like a child when in fact she is a teenager.
Being in charge of the next five chapters, I have already read them, of course, and maybe the information on Nell's real age was, indeed, given for the first time in a conversation between Fred and Dick. I was very surprised, though, when I read it because Nell's first appearance and the way she is treated by her grandfather made me think that she was 10 or 11, at the most. Her way of addressing the first person narrator and of putting her hand in his would certainly be very strange for a 14-year old girl since at that age, a girl no longer behaves like a little child. Also the propensity to cry and to sob is more like the behaviour of a little child. Maybe, the fact that Little Nell is practically isolated from the rest of the world and most children her age - except Kit, who seems to be not the sharpest knife in the drawer -, spending the whole day in the company of her grandfather, may account for her still behaving like a child when in fact she is a teenager.
Mary Lou wrote: "The scene in Chapter 4 with the ladies at tea reminds me of the women (would I be betraying my sex if I called them 'hens'?) in the show "Last of the Summer Wine". I love watching them, lined up on..."
I still remember Aunty Wainwright!
I still remember Aunty Wainwright!

For a lost 14-year-old to ask a stranger for assistance is understandable, but to have that same 14-year-old place her hand in his is not. And as I said previously, different characters leave us with different impressions of Nell's age. It's more than one or two times, and Dickens is too good a writer for this to be accidental, I think. It's very early, so I'll say no more other than we might want to be on the lookout throughout the book for another reason.
Mary Lou wrote: "So many things to comment on in these five chapters!
I'm a bit surprised that this comparison hasn't already been made (at least directly), but Nell and Quilp reminded me of Little Red Riding Hoo..."
Indeed, Mary Lou, there is something fairytalelike in the air, and that is one of the things that I like about the novel. It reminds me, not so much of Little Red Riding Hood, but of one of my all-time favourite films, namely the eerie and yet deeply beautiful "The Night of the Hunter" by Charles Laughton. In that movie we have a little girl and her brother on the run (although it is the brother and not the little girl that does the protecting), and a ghastly false preacher on their heels. You remember Robert Mitchum on horseback, against the horizon, singing "Leaning on the everlasting arm"? As a child, I found the film both creepy and fascinating, and I still do. It's high time I went and watched that movie again!
I'm a bit surprised that this comparison hasn't already been made (at least directly), but Nell and Quilp reminded me of Little Red Riding Hoo..."
Indeed, Mary Lou, there is something fairytalelike in the air, and that is one of the things that I like about the novel. It reminds me, not so much of Little Red Riding Hood, but of one of my all-time favourite films, namely the eerie and yet deeply beautiful "The Night of the Hunter" by Charles Laughton. In that movie we have a little girl and her brother on the run (although it is the brother and not the little girl that does the protecting), and a ghastly false preacher on their heels. You remember Robert Mitchum on horseback, against the horizon, singing "Leaning on the everlasting arm"? As a child, I found the film both creepy and fascinating, and I still do. It's high time I went and watched that movie again!
Another thing I love about this novel is Dick Swiveller. Have you noticed his elaborate way with words? ;-) We may be in for some treats here, and I wouldn't wonder if he pointed out, like Mr. Tappertit and Mr. Guppy will do later, that there are strings to the human heart that had better not be "wibrated".

One's physical description portrays one's moral character? Kind of like the picture of Dorian Gray?

"I'll turn my face homewards, leaving my love for Nelly and hoping she may never lose her way again, though her doing so HAS procured me and honor I did not expect." With that he bowed and leered at me . . .
So who is our unnamed narrator? Someone important? Or is Quilp just flattering him?
As Peter pointed out, it is quite worthwhile to read the descriptions of people's dwelling places with a view to the places being visual extensions of these people's characters or states of mind, like in an Anthony Mann western. In Chapter 3 we learn, for instance:
The very first sentence of this description is, to me, an example of Dickens's creativity as it is not only exceedingly funny but also implies that Quilp's line of business is most probably not what it seems to be. At the same time, by the facetious implication of Quilp's breaking his ships very small the narrator underlines Quilp's destructiveness, his brutality. Note that the only human being there apart from Quilp is an "amphibean" boy, i.e. someone who lives between two worlds, who is not part wholly of human society.
" On Quilp's Wharf, Daniel Quilp was a ship-breaker, yet to judge from these appearances he must either have been a ship-breaker on a very small scale, or have broken his ships up very small indeed. Neither did the place present any extraordinary aspect of life or activity, as its only human occupant was an amphibious boy in a canvas suit, whose sole change of occupation was from sitting on the head of a pile and throwing stones into the mud when the tide was out, to standing with his hands in his pockets gazing listlessly on the motion and on the bustle of the river at high-water."
The very first sentence of this description is, to me, an example of Dickens's creativity as it is not only exceedingly funny but also implies that Quilp's line of business is most probably not what it seems to be. At the same time, by the facetious implication of Quilp's breaking his ships very small the narrator underlines Quilp's destructiveness, his brutality. Note that the only human being there apart from Quilp is an "amphibean" boy, i.e. someone who lives between two worlds, who is not part wholly of human society.
Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "Chapter 3
"I'll turn my face homewards, leaving my love for Nelly and hoping she may never lose her way again, though her doing so HAS procured me and honor I did not expect." With that he bowed a..."
I still think it is Master Humphrey, i.e. the protagonist of the story collection - and the eponymous magazine - in which Dickens first embedded TOCS. On seeing that the material had a will of its own, he soon discarded the first person perspective, not bothering to alter the first three chapters.
"I'll turn my face homewards, leaving my love for Nelly and hoping she may never lose her way again, though her doing so HAS procured me and honor I did not expect." With that he bowed a..."
I still think it is Master Humphrey, i.e. the protagonist of the story collection - and the eponymous magazine - in which Dickens first embedded TOCS. On seeing that the material had a will of its own, he soon discarded the first person perspective, not bothering to alter the first three chapters.
Tristram wrote: "As Peter pointed out, it is quite worthwhile to read the descriptions of people's dwelling places with a view to the places being visual extensions of these people's characters or states of mind, l..."
Yes indeed. I completely agree with your comment about the “amphibean” boy and the idea of “someone who lives between two worlds.”
To me, this is a novel that consistently presents itself through the lens of two worlds. One world is the presentation of what is perceived as normal and accepted while the other world is grotesque, horrid, and nightmarish. These two worlds exist together in one place and often collide. That, I believe, is the underlining essence of the novel.
In many ways, this novel is much like a 650 plus page fairy tale.
Yes indeed. I completely agree with your comment about the “amphibean” boy and the idea of “someone who lives between two worlds.”
To me, this is a novel that consistently presents itself through the lens of two worlds. One world is the presentation of what is perceived as normal and accepted while the other world is grotesque, horrid, and nightmarish. These two worlds exist together in one place and often collide. That, I believe, is the underlining essence of the novel.
In many ways, this novel is much like a 650 plus page fairy tale.
Tristram wrote: "I still think it is Master Humphrey, i.e. the protagonist of the story collection "
Yes Tristram, you're right somehow, it is Master Humphrey.
Master Humphrey's Clock was a weekly periodical edited and written entirely by Charles Dickens and published from 4 April 1840 to 4 December 1841. It began with a frame story in which Master Humphrey tells about himself and his small circle of friends (which includes Mr. Pickwick), and their penchant for telling stories. Several short stories were included, followed by the novels The Old Curiosity Shop and Barnaby Rudge. It is generally thought that Dickens originally intended The Old Curiosity Shop as a short story like the others that had appeared in Master Humphrey's Clock, but after a few chapters decided to extend it into a novel. Master Humphrey appears as the first-person narrator in the first three chapters of The Old Curiosity Shop but then disappears, stating, "And now that I have carried this history so far in my own character and introduced these personages to the reader, I shall for the convenience of the narrative detach myself from its further course, and leave those who have prominent and necessary parts in it to speak and act for themselves."
Master Humphrey is a lonely man who lives in London. He keeps old manuscripts in an antique longcase clock by the chimney-corner. One day, he decides that he would start a little club, called Master Humphrey's Clock, where the members would read out their manuscripts to the others. The members include Master Humphrey; a deaf gentleman, Jack Redburn; retired merchant Owen Miles; and Mr. Pickwick from The Pickwick Papers. A mirror club in the kitchen, Mr. Weller's Watch, run by Mr. Weller, has members including Humphrey's maid, the barber and Sam Weller.
Master Humphrey's Clock appeared after The Old Curiosity Shop, to introduce Barnaby Rudge. After Barnaby Rudge, Master Humphrey is left by himself by the chimney corner in a train of thoughts. Here, the deaf gentleman continues the narration. Later, the deaf gentleman and his friends return to Humphrey's house to find him dead. Humphrey has left money for the barber and the maid (no doubt by traces of love that they would be married). Redburn and the deaf gentleman look after the house and the club closes for good.
In the portion of Master Humphrey's Clock which succeeds The Old Curiosity Shop, Master Humphrey reveals to his friends that he is the character referred to as the 'single gentleman' in that story.
Yes Tristram, you're right somehow, it is Master Humphrey.
Master Humphrey's Clock was a weekly periodical edited and written entirely by Charles Dickens and published from 4 April 1840 to 4 December 1841. It began with a frame story in which Master Humphrey tells about himself and his small circle of friends (which includes Mr. Pickwick), and their penchant for telling stories. Several short stories were included, followed by the novels The Old Curiosity Shop and Barnaby Rudge. It is generally thought that Dickens originally intended The Old Curiosity Shop as a short story like the others that had appeared in Master Humphrey's Clock, but after a few chapters decided to extend it into a novel. Master Humphrey appears as the first-person narrator in the first three chapters of The Old Curiosity Shop but then disappears, stating, "And now that I have carried this history so far in my own character and introduced these personages to the reader, I shall for the convenience of the narrative detach myself from its further course, and leave those who have prominent and necessary parts in it to speak and act for themselves."
Master Humphrey is a lonely man who lives in London. He keeps old manuscripts in an antique longcase clock by the chimney-corner. One day, he decides that he would start a little club, called Master Humphrey's Clock, where the members would read out their manuscripts to the others. The members include Master Humphrey; a deaf gentleman, Jack Redburn; retired merchant Owen Miles; and Mr. Pickwick from The Pickwick Papers. A mirror club in the kitchen, Mr. Weller's Watch, run by Mr. Weller, has members including Humphrey's maid, the barber and Sam Weller.
Master Humphrey's Clock appeared after The Old Curiosity Shop, to introduce Barnaby Rudge. After Barnaby Rudge, Master Humphrey is left by himself by the chimney corner in a train of thoughts. Here, the deaf gentleman continues the narration. Later, the deaf gentleman and his friends return to Humphrey's house to find him dead. Humphrey has left money for the barber and the maid (no doubt by traces of love that they would be married). Redburn and the deaf gentleman look after the house and the club closes for good.
In the portion of Master Humphrey's Clock which succeeds The Old Curiosity Shop, Master Humphrey reveals to his friends that he is the character referred to as the 'single gentleman' in that story.
Tristram wrote: "Indeed, Mary Lou, there is something fairytale like in the air, and that is one of the things that I like about the novel."
Did you see that! There is something Tristram likes about the novel! Finally he admits it! It seems to be the perfect place for this:

Dear, gentle, patient, noble Nell
I wish I would have written that caption. :-)
Pictures from Dickens with readings
Selections, Adaptations and Abridgments from two or more Works
Did you see that! There is something Tristram likes about the novel! Finally he admits it! It seems to be the perfect place for this:

Dear, gentle, patient, noble Nell
I wish I would have written that caption. :-)
Pictures from Dickens with readings
Selections, Adaptations and Abridgments from two or more Works

Yes Tristram, you're right somehow, it is Master Humphrey.
Master Humphrey's Clock was a weekl..."
Oh, the narrator and the whole first chapter make so much more sense now.
I wonder if Dickens had Nell in mind at first as 9-11, and only when he scented a good plot did he age her up to 14.

When describing Mrs. Quilp, several references are made to her bower. You might want to google "Bower bird" and read up on their mating and nesting rituals. IIRC from a long ago ornithology class, the female is basically trapped in the bower.
Xan Shadowflutter wrote: "Chapter 4
When describing Mrs. Quilp, several references are made to her bower. You might want to google "Bower bird" and read up on their mating and nesting rituals. IIRC from a long ago ornithol..."
Xan
I never knew this information. Thank you very much.
When describing Mrs. Quilp, several references are made to her bower. You might want to google "Bower bird" and read up on their mating and nesting rituals. IIRC from a long ago ornithol..."
Xan
I never knew this information. Thank you very much.


I am going through it with this Quilp character, not wanting to judge him so quickly based on his image and brief glimpse of behaviors. But who am I kidding after reading Chapter 4...who am I kidding believing the judgement of Grandfather Trent entrusting Nell in Quilp's care?
In Chapter 4 I was struck by two things...the grouping of women discussing how to not live under the thumb of their spouse. I saw it as odd at first for these women to be encouraging having a dominant nature, but I reminded myself that they were not Society women; so, this type of discourse would be understandable. The image of Pip's sister from "GE" came to mind; although, these women arent as hard as she is, I did notice a loosely based commonality.
What I wondered about most is how does Mrs. Quilp end up with somebody like Mr. Quilp considering who Mrs. Jiniwin is... arent they the most odd pairing...how could she have allowed this marriage? In Chapter 3 Grandfather Trent said Quilp resorted to violence to resolve conflict. In Chapter 4 the discussion between Quilp and Mrs. Jiniwin gave me pause as they were discussing Mr. Jiniwin. Quilp says,
I dare say he was a blessed creature then; but I'm sure he is now. It was a happy release. I believe he had suffered a long time?What does he mean to say, it was a happy release (42)? Was he there? I ask because I understand Quilp to evoke unease and fear in others, and not just because of his appearance. It's his calculated sarcastic speech and that look in his eyes full of malice which has people left quivering (42). Quilp alludes to Mrs Jiniwin as being a culprit in her husband's suffering, I believe, but does Quilp too have a hand in Mr. Jiniwin's ultimate demise? Something doesn't smell right between these two. Dwarves and Goblins, these two mythical characters are known to be shrewd creatures, and always engaging in trade with an upper hand in their deals. Was the life of the father traded for the hand of the daughter in marriage because of Mrs. Jiniwin's impatience with her husband?

When describing Mrs. Quilp, several references are made to her bower. You might want to google "Bower bird" and read up on their mating and nesting rituals. IIRC from a long ago ornithol..."
I love this, this is great!
So who is our unnamed narrator? Someone important? Or is Quilp just flattering him?
I don't think we know from what we've read, as of yet, but we now have and idea of who he is based on Tristram's comment. I would think he is important, and him being infirm is important too. It was an odd way of bringing to light this aspect of the narrator. I'm still puzzled by his presence in the shop during the argument between Fred and his grandfather. The illustration has him folded over in the corner, I think...and then he decides to up and leave, from both the shop and the narrative? I'm curious to read how absence of the first person narrator will influence the rest of the story. It's already full of those Dickens nuances, but a third person narrator (I think somebody said it will switch to this) is going to add a whole other layer of intrigue to an already dark and grim narrative.
One's physical description portrays one's moral character? Kind of like the picture of Dorian Gray?
i thought this too, Xan, based on what I know of the book. I tried reading it and couldn't get through the preface. SMH!
Let me know, because I missed it too.
You didn't miss anything. Her age comes up in Chapter 7!
The Child In Her Gentle Slumber
Chapter 1
Samuel Williams
Text Illustrated:
We are so much in the habit of allowing impressions to be made upon us by external objects, which should..."
Oh Kim! Such richness and variety in these illustrations. Thank you.
The illustration “The Child In Her Gentle Slumber” by Samuel Williams is the first of two illustrations I will lavish my praise on. The second we must patiently wait for, but the wait will be, I hope, well worth it.
For this illustration we see a room in disarray, a room that seems to be a ramble through history with items as diverse as “suits of mail, standing like ghosts in armour, here and there; distorted figures in China, and wood, and iron; and ivory; tapestry and strange furniture that might have been designed in dreams.” We see picture frames empty of pictures, empty chairs, a lit candle by a closed window, a gargoyle-like face and other scattered deitrus. This illustration is dream-like, a nightmare of disjointed and unaligned objects. Yet, in the midst of it all, there sleeps Little Nell. She alone is the stabilizing centre of a ménage of images that “might have been designed in dreams.” Dreams, nightmares, a world turned upside down. Here we have, in visual form, an allegorical world that Nell will be obliged to navigate with her grandfather.