Moning Maniacs discussion

Wow!!! That's disappointing there is no firm date. Before Burned could mean anytime.

Well it's KMM's site, it's her FB page and its her series. Karen can do whatever she wants with them. She created them, they belong to her and not to us (us being her fans). People that need to have their say about this Dani thing to the point of this uninterrupted bashing of her and/or continuously brow beating her about it should do that on their own pages and web sites. Yes freedom of speech is important but constantly attacking someone because they took a different approach to something than you would have commited to is wrong. Especially if there has been no laws broken and when no one has been harmed in the process.

True but people should be able to just chat and have regular dialogue about the issue.

I completely agree. I'm just saying it doesn't need to be all up in her face like it has been for a while now. Give the poor woman a break. I'm sure she is intimately aware of how both sides of this Dani issue feel by now.

The reason I'm saying what I am saying is because the fight isn't even primarily about Dani anymore. It's about not being able to go on someone's web site or FB page or Forum and do and say whatever you want about/to them as often as it pleases you to do so. How long is this woman suppose to just let everyone put her over their knee like that?

Just so I'm clear, what is the "Dani" issue?

"but constantly attacking someone because they took a different approach to something than you would have commited to is wrong"

Maeve, were you on the forum? I was, please recall for me when someone attacked Karen.

No I wasn't but I know people who were in the forum but let's face it, what need would there be to delete forum posts if it was all unicorns and rainbows all day every day on that forum?

Samantha wrote: "Just so I'm clear, what is the "Dani" issue?"


From the parts of it I have heard some people feel that since Karen wrote Iced (which is an adult based storyline) from the perspective of Dani (who was still a child) that it somehow advocates over-sexualization of minors and was inappropriate. The way some of these people carry on I'm surprised that they haven't tried to drag KMM into her local child protective service offices over the whole thing.

Ok...you are talking about something different. I thought you were referring to some of the recent choices she made about Mac's POV, etc. I actually thought all of the pseudo-pedo stuff died down. I don't think people are still talking about that.

Hopefully Dani's time warp age jump will squash most of that noise

Maeve wrote: "No I wasn't but I know people who were in the forum but let's face it, what need would there be to delete forum posts if it was all unicorns and rainbows all day every day on that forum?"

First of all, it's a forum made for discussion so obviously it's not going to be all unicorn and rainbows. If that was the case, why bother discussing if everyone has reached the same consensus?

Secondly, since you were not there, and I was, I can tell you insults were not being hailed on the great goddess Karan. From what I remember, the discussion evolved around disappointment that Dani will no longer be a primary narrator. Like I said, discussion, not an attack. I love Karen's books, I love Karen's writing, it's a simple as that. But I have a right, along with everyone else, to feel disappointment when a beloved character will fall from primary to secondary. It's a natural feeling.

The pedo-wagon and Dani's age is not what people are talking about lol, it's the change in POVs.

Okay so everyone from "the great goddess Karen" to my lowly peasant self has heard and acknowledges your feelings. So now what?

What do you mean, so now what? Is this not a discussion thread? If you have nothing else to say, then so be it. I was just putting my opinion out there in response to what you said.

Since this is a discussion thread here's my opinion: The pedo wagon is most likely the reason for the POV change. What else would you have Karen do besides not write the series anymore?

It could very well be that. It might be to keep her "older" fan base interested. Maybe Dani is still not old enough so it would be best to tell it from Mac's POV. I love my Dani but let's face it, she doesn't always give the story accurately or catch all the cues (i.e. Ryo's look, etc). We might get a different view from Mac. I don't know.

I think you may be be right about Dani not being mature enough to tell the story as well as someone older could. I love the fact that Mac has grown less dependent on others for her survival and safey. I also love the fact that everything is not solely based on revenge for her anymore. I look forward to Mac's POV in Burned. I think I enjoyed Dani's POV in Iced so much because she wasn't so into revenge and was so highly independent. Plus the kid really did make me laugh :)

Maeve wrote: "Since this is a discussion thread here's my opinion: The pedo wagon is most likely the reason for the POV change. What else would you have Karen do besides not write the series anymore?"

My guess was because KMM had sooo many complaints that Iced was all about Dani, and a lot of her older fans were wanting more Mac, that she felt pressured to give everyone more Mac. It might also be that making Burned more about Mac will bring more readers and more money. It has got to be tough as an author with so much pressure on you and everyone wanting something so different! An author can't end up pleasing everyone. Except I think JK Rowling did an exceptional job finishing out her series while under extreme pressure of the world waiting as each new book came out!

Hopefully the discussion boards come back up soon. I miss them :) Sigh... it is so much easier when you read a whole series when it is already complete. I hate starting a series that isn't finished and waiting between books.

Little Feather wrote "It has got to be tough as an author with so much pressure on you and everyone wanting something so different! An author can't end up pleasing everyone. Except I think JK Rowling did an exceptional job finishing out her series while under extreme pressure of the world waiting as each new book came out!"

I understand what you mean. It seems kinda of disheartening to have the success of writing a series as good as the Fever series turn into so much chaos for someone. It's almost like witnessing the inverse of the silver lining effect. And the waiting is killer lol, but look on the bright side, fans of the Wheel of Time series had a longer wait in between a few of the releases.

I wonder how much longer the site is going to be down? I wanted to take a closer look at the Fever inspired tarot cards. If the artwork on them is as beautiful as the artwork on the site and in KMM's Facebook posts then I'm definitely going to add them to my collection.

I asked her on Facebook and she said she wants to focus on writing Flayed so the website is going to be MIA for a while (as in until Burned is released)...

Well if that means a shorter wait for Burned and Flayed then I can wait lol. I'm going into Fever-withdrawal :P

I sent her a mgs on Facebook about the forum and KMM told me that when the website comes back it is DOUBTFUL that the forum will be back.I tried to explain to her that some of her fans are not on FB and some aren't even on Goodreads. She told me that the website has showed a marked decline of 80% in the past five years. I was talking to my husband the other day and I said What can you expect when you haven't release a book in 2 years? I was on the forum for a few days before it went down and there was a lot of people upset that Mac was back to the forefront and I was one of them. I'm extremely upset by the fact. I feel she promised something and she has gone back on that promise.

I've posted my dislike on FB and some of them have been deleted.
Recently, there is a fan that posted her extreme dislike in the comment section and it wasn't deleted. KMM actually responded back.

Here is the link:

https://m.facebook.com/home.php?ref=b...

If you can't see the post its probaby bcuz its through my FB. But if you go to her FB page and go to the comment section and the poster name is Zahin Zaima and it was on Sept 25.

Madeleine wrote: "Maeve wrote: "No I wasn't but I know people who were in the forum but let's face it, what need would there be to delete forum posts if it was all unicorns and rainbows all day every day on that for..."

I was in the forum before it went down and I completely agree with you. There was no attacking. We were venting not attacking.

The controversy on the forum had nothing to do with Dani and inappropriate sexuality or pedo-vibes. I was on the boards the weeks leading up to and actual day it was shut Down and to my knowledge no one was talking about that. They were talking about Dani getting cut to secondary POV. Even with that though I never saw any of the posters on Karens forum act rude or vile towards her. No one trolled the boards or wrote hateful remarks. This was a fan board and though there was upset and disappointment and at best a feeling that we were being mislead because of the POV change and expressing that, there was no bashing or vicious attack on Karen. Some people didn't want to read the books anymore because of the change and voiced that. Though Majority ruled on this I guess, Mac is not everyones favorite and alot of people were enjoying Dani as the lead and it was a shock to Us when it seemed she was being replaced from her own series. No one ever crossed a line or took it too far in my opinon. That was actually one of the most respectful forums I've ever been on. There were some really great discussions and everyone seemed to get along in a friendly manner whether they were on the same page about an issue or not.

So true.

Marshmello23 wrote: "The controversy on the forum had nothing to do with Dani and inappropriate sexuality or pedo-vibes. I was on the boards the weeks leading up to and actual day it was shut Down and to my knowledge n..."

I couldn't agree with you more. I was on the forum I think the day before it went down and I definitely was expressing my feelings about the change. I feel like KMM was listening to more of her FB followers bcuz majority of them are Mac lovers as too the forum people who couldn't wait to get more Dani. I feel like I had the carpet pulled out from under me and feel very misled. I hate to say it but depending how much Mac time vs Dani time we get I won't be reading Flayed. Mac had 5 books but Dani couldn't get 3?? I understand Mac is needed to help Dani grow and mature but she didn't need to be front and center.

Ooo, two new books coming in the series. And KMM has gone all the way back to the Fever-series. :)

She did mention that she might break the last book into two. I see she did.

Which means Dani is getting push further back into the background..

Heather wrote: "Which means Dani is getting push further back into the background.."

LOL Heather, I found out that the best way to get over the disappointment is to not re-read Iced ever again. It kind of fades into the background after a while, and I have lower expectations for Burned and the new books :)

I agree Winnie. I have lowered my expectations.

Same here. I've never had an author jerk everyone around like this. I don't get why you would to change a title from Flayed to Feverborn??? Flayed is way more catching. If your in a book store or just searching around for a book and see a title called Flayed your gonna what to pick it up. Its eye catching!!

Like I said in another post I feel like KMM is responding more to her FB fans. Everyone there is like "Omg!! More Mac and Barrons Yaaay!!" I'm sitting here and I'm sure some of the forum people are like WTF??? KMM, you wrote this amazing, strong, funny character in the MEGA and had these other awesome characters and they have been push to the back burner. For me Mac and Barrons had nothing on the possibilities for Dani and Ryodan. I don't like all this wishy washy bull. Stick to your guns!!

@Winnie, I haven't read Iced in months or any other book bcuz I was hoping to get pass these feels for Iced. Nothing jumps out at me and everything sounds the same. Honestly, I think I've become to reliable on reading reviews instead of going with my gut. Then again I can't waste time or money on books/series that don't work out.

Heather wrote: "KMM, you wrote this amazing, strong, funny character in the MEGA and had these other awesome characters and they have been push to the back burner. For me Mac and Barrons had nothing on the possibilities for Dani and Ryodan. I don't like all this wishy washy bull. Stick to your guns!! "

I agree with you completely Heather! I am re-reading the Fever series and no matter what, it won't make me more excited that KMM is introducing another problem into the Barrons and Mac relationship just so her FB fans can see B&M kiss and make up again in Burned. I loved their thing when it happened, but it is over, and Dani and Ryo could TOTALLY eclipse them if only KMM would give us the original story she planned! Arggghhh

Hi girls I am new to this group! I am a 100% certain that we R going to get a better picture into Dani and Ryodan if Dani is not the only PVO. Remember that one persons view especially a 14 year old will not give us a clear picture! We only see limited emotions and actions. For example when Dani walk in on Ryodan and the person that will not be named!!!! She just says that Ryodan gives her a funny look and tells her to go to bed . I mean really what was the look on his face???? Was it O F@ck I screwed up or get out of hear little girl you R interfering with my play time. Maybe it was guilt because he knows He wants Dani when she is older and they r already bonded by contrac and or blood and ? His mark ? Lorl says to Dani at a stage in the book that Ryodan bloody decides to "Higher" you as if her contrac is not a work contrac but something els. I am a big big Dani fan I am more a Dani girl then a pretty in pink Mac girl and badass Ryodan is so my type.

Let's hope you are right, Inada! I am also a Dani girl. I never loved Barrons or Mac a ton although I loved the Fever series as a whole and the romantic tension between them. I thought Dani was annoying in Fever and was floored when I read Iced to realize how amazing, complex, fun and funny Dani is. I love that crazy kid! I mean, she gets mad at Ryo for lying to her about being a Batman and Robin Fan! I rrrrreaaallllly hope we get a ton of Ryo/Dani time.

Inanda wrote: "Hi girls I am new to this group! I am a 100% certain that we R going to get a better picture into Dani and Ryodan if Dani is not the only PVO. Remember that one persons view especially a 14 year ol..."

I like your thought process. Its so me. I always wanted to know about his looks but I can't sacrifice her voice either.

Yes I know I love her voice to. I can not wait for Dani to be older!!

Yes I know I love her voice to. I can not wait for Dani to be older!!

I always thought that when Dani grew up, we would understand Ryodans looks through her. I don't want Mac to explain them. I thought that was a part of the plot, seeing Dani grow up and figure out things for herself.

But really, I'm not mad at KMM. I trust she will write a good story for Dani.

Please excuse my writing, I'm writing from my phone and it's almost three in the morning:

I was upset but then I stopped being upset because it makes sense why KMM would go this route. The heroine is just too young. By going the route of different MC's this allows for our heroine to age more, perhaps we'll have years upon years fly by, this route distracts from her slow aging by focusing our lens on interesting characters like the wholly awesome Unseelie King and the Seelie queen, why those black lady crone monsters have been following Mac, the love of my book life Barrons and ms amazing Mac's love life, and other things. I wanted to see Dani, in first person, go save Christian and deal with ryodan n his whore. Damn I am still upset. I still want dani! But I understand, I think, why this is happening.

LOL! That sounds like a whole lot of Mac/Barrons storyline. My concern was that there was a lot that needed to be closed up from Iced. So I need my answers.

Yes I know but we R still getting Dani POV but Mac as we'll !! So maybe Mac POV is there to clarify all the stuff we can not get through Dani limited view or rather lack of emotional maturity?

Inanda wrote: "Yes I know but we R still getting Dani POV but Mac as we'll !! So maybe Mac POV is there to clarify all the stuff we can not get through Dani limited view or rather lack of emotional maturity?"

The main POV will be from Mac. So the story will possibily involve her and Dani on an adventure.. maybe saving Christian? Maybe going after the HFK. And the possibility of Ryodan and Barrons going after them. That way I could picture the POV being from Mac as more natural.

Yes and when Dani is stuck,lost or kept in fairy by Christian {this is just speculative} Remember Dani have to age!! We need Mac to tell us how and what is happening in Dublin! Remember just after Mac was turned Pri ya Dani took over as main POV for a little bit to tell us what is happening . As long as both Dani and Mac gets equal POV time I am happy but I don't want to be stuck with Pretty Mac POV for the whole of Burned !!

I just unlike and unfollowed KMM on FB because of went on in the comments sections today. Maybe I'm just upset so I don't know if I might follow her again...

Heather wrote: "I just unlike and unfollowed KMM on FB because of went on in the comments sections today. Maybe I'm just upset so I don't know if I might follow her again..."

what happened on FB?

Goge (BARRONS) le Moning Maniac, wrote: "I wanted to see Dani, in first person, go save Christian and deal with ryodan n his whore. Damn I am still upset. I still want dani! "

Omg you are too funny! Ryo and his whore? Ryo is way more of a whore than Jo, lol.

@Heather Yep what happened on FB? I don't follow KMM since most of her posts don't really interest me.

FB User: Will the forum be up again soon? A lot of people are missing the discussions...

KMM:KMM's publisher is putting together a book-specific site which will be launched prior to the sale of BURNED but at last discussions, many parts of the original site will not be returning. Analytics show social media has trended away from websites toward FB, Goodreads, Twitter, Pinterest, etc. Leiha

Same FB User: Does that mean no discussion forum?

Me:hey where have you been going to talk to everyone??

Same FB User: Looks like we may have to find an alternative if there won't be a forum. FB or social media sites are not very good for book discussions really.

Same FB USer: Heather you should join Moning Maniacs group on here if you haven't already.

Different FB User: That's a shame, really, as I've always gone to the authors website for up to date, EASY to find information. Wading through all the info created on FB and the like is often tedious. Case in point, I've been trying to find more info on the Highlander series as I just finished rereading for the third time (it was an ebook bundle) and at the end of Spell of a Highlander in the "Dear Reader" bit she mentions not being done with them. Does anyone know if that's true or if having Christian in the Fever books is as much as we'll get? I have to say I will always thank my younger sister for turning me onto KMM. What marvelous books!

KMM (LIN):the new website will still contain book information, although more specific questions like yours about the Highlanders were never addressed in depth at her website. She did say in a recent Q&A with JR Ward that we will be seeing more of the Highlanders in BURNED! Heather I saw you emailed a few weeks ago and KMM answered in detail that the forums, along with roughly 200 other secondary pages on the old website will not be relaunched. Lin

Mind you I didn't say anything about the forum

KMM: Karen here Hey guys, the forums won’t be returning for two reasons, one primary, one secondary.

Primary reason: Cost/benefit analysis. Analytics showed a whopping 87% decrease in membership/activity at the forums over the past five years, while the cost of maintaining it was roughly 2/3 of my server requirements. By the time we took the website down for redesign, the message forum was down to 5% of its prior activity level. A 95% drop!

At the end of the day, the forums were no longer sustainable. In the past few years, we’ve watched social media drift away from websites to FB pages, groups and communities, Goodreads, private blogs and personal message boards, Twitter, Pinterest. Many pages on my website were discarded for the same reason: the sister site, Sidhe-Seers, Inc, along with a few hundred secondary pages were getting little to no activity compared with recent years and will not be re-launched when karenmoning.com returns. The function of an author’s website is to distribute information to readers. The new site will do that.

Secondary reason: what we see behind the scenes is very different than what you see. We see the big picture. We see the ‘unregisters’ and what they’re related to. We see the mass decampments, and which day, even hour and minute it happens and from that, can pinpoint the event or discussion from which it stems. We hear from thousands of happy and unhappy fans and no, we don’t only listen to the happy, nice stuff. We listen to it all. We’d been getting hammered for months with countless private emails about a small number of people others felt were making the message forums unpleasant, unwelcoming and negative. Old-timers were writing to tell us they were fed up and leaving, and newcomers were writing to tell us they’d tried to join in conversation and been driven off by the small group’s negative, aggressive attitude. At first these complaints were a trickle but they became a flood. I take no stance on whether or not those people were doing anything ‘wrong.’ There are no value judgments here. The figures speak: whatever the small group was doing was indeed driving people away from karenmoning.com en masse—which is the polar opposite of what an author’s website is designed to do. The board was already dying. The last few months were just the nail in the coffin.

My priorities will always be in this order:
1. Please the Muse (Let’s face it, she gives me the goods with which I make my living.)
2. Please the majority of my fans (Let’s face it, they pay my salary.)
3. Please the minority of my fans (Let’s face it, they pay my salary.)

But every decision I make about my profession must be made as a professional, not a democracy, not a non-profit organization, and in the above order, or I won’t have a profession to make any decisions about.

Me:@Lin, I didn't ask if the forum would be back up in this post. I ask Sue where people from the forum have been to discuss the Fever books.

Different FB User: Karen and Lin, thank you soooooo much for the info. I was most concerned about whether or not the website would offer the information about the books, as I've never participated in forums exactly because of all the reasons you mentioned, Karen. I understand the need to cut back and if parts of the site weren't reaching people, or had simply become obsolete, it makes sense to get rid of them. To say I'm ecstatic about seeing my favorite Druids again is a complete understatement. Christian and his kin will always be at the top of my list. I am looking forward to Burned and the remainder of the planned books! Thank you again for taking the time to address concerns and have a BEAUTIFUL Hump day!

Different FB User: Lin, I was also wondering if the Q&A you mentioned was actually published somewhere. And I thought her old website had links to other Q&A's she'd done. I think from now on I'll likely just visit you all in here as you've been so very helpful and sweet.

Me:KMM, could post your answer so all your fans see please??
I was talking about the her answer about the forum

KMM:we already did on October 12, posted a link to the transcript of the Q&A from the signing KMM did with J.R. Ward. KMM answers a few questions at the start. Lin

KMM answered only 4 questions and none were about the forum.
Different User: Thanks so much!

KMM:if you looking for more action with the Highlanders, you'll love BURNED It's there in spades. I've finally gotten them right where I want them LOL

Me:I meant about the forum. Can you post your answer about the forum so everyone can see it??

KMM:My answer is above

So far there is only 2 post after that.

Honestly its not even that serious but why did one of the Admins have to call me out when I didn't do anything. Then when ask if KMM could make a post about the forum not coming back I was blown off. I've also had several posts and comments be deleted before and all the wishy washy stuff I don't need to be in the know on a constant basis.