The Sword and Laser discussion

Does anybody have comments about my blog post? What's your opinion on epic fantasy? Is it getting redundant?
https://www.deathsteel.com/blog

I’m just going to be That Guy and give it to you straight:

1. Your link isn’t specific to the post you’re referencing.

2. Your post has numerous typos, which is amusing once you mention all the typos in your story. (Hopefully you’ve hired a proofreader for your prose or, at the very least, run it through spellcheck.)

3. You’re using the terms “Low Fantasy” and “High Fantasy” incorrectly.

4. Your history of Fantasy as a genre is inaccurate.

5. If people are repeatedly telling you that you’re imitating Howard, maybe instead of dismissing them you should actually read Howard to see why they are saying that.

*after reading Trike's comments*

Sorry about the typos. I didn't see any. Yes, there is high and low fantasy. If you have another version of fantasy literature, educate me. People don't say I'm imitating Howard, they say my character is like Conan.

Trike wrote: "I’m just going to be That Guy and give it to you straight:

1. Your link isn’t specific to the post you’re referencing... "

Thanks for being That Guy, Trike. If not for this warning, I might have been misled by the link and expected a more legit discussion.

Dennis, this post seems like a thinly veiled attempt to promote your book, and I have to say, tricking people onto your blog so you can sell your stuff is not a good tactic - I'd suggest posting this kind of thing under the author promo section, as people are more likely to respond favourably if they don't feel they've been had.

I'm happy to talk high and low fantasy here, but try to keep the promotion out of it. I mean, I get the temptation, I do, but I think genuine conversation will serve you better in the long run.

Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth wrote: "Dennis, this post seems like a thinly veiled attempt to promote your book, and I have to say, tricking people onto your blog so you can sell your stuff is not a good tactic - I'd suggest posting this kind of thing under the author promo section, as people are more likely to respond favourably if they don't feel they've been had."

Yeah, this. This feels like a thinly veiled attempt to garner clicks for your blog. I won't be surprised if this gets removed.

Dara wrote: "Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth wrote: "Dennis, this post seems like a thinly veiled attempt to promote your book, and I have to say, tricking people onto your blog so you can sell your stuff is not a good..."

Got to go with Ruth on this. Not even a blog, just a sales hype (or hope perhaps). I am not going to click on a woman in a bikini with a rubbish sign.

Hang on now, I want to hear more from the guy that thinks a man with a sword on an alien world is a revolutionary concept.

Brendan wrote: "Hang on now, I want to hear more from the guy that thinks a man with a sword on an alien world is a revolutionary concept."

I mean, just because an idea has been done before doesn't inherently mean it's a bad idea. But I have zero interest in reading this book.

Also, holy crap have you looked at the author's response to a reviewer on the book's goodreads page? Here it is:

"Joel is a liar and a fraud. If there are so many typos and you and your little friend really read the book, then give me examples. Of course, you won't, because you are a hateful little troll who has read nothing of mine. You're disgusting and yiu give social media a bad reputation."

Tracey wrote: "Brendan wrote: "Hang on now, I want to hear more from the guy that thinks a man with a sword on an alien world is a revolutionary concept."

I mean, just because an idea has been done before doesn'..."

No, i mean he seems to think it has not been done before. "a concept that is revolutionary" is his words, not mine.

Brendan wrote: "Tracey wrote: "Brendan wrote: "Hang on now, I want to hear more from the guy that thinks a man with a sword on an alien world is a revolutionary concept."

I mean, just because an idea has been don..."

Ohh, OK I agree with you then. Very few concepts are "revolutionary" any more, just because of the massive amount of fiction already written.

Yeah...I saw this and decided to leave it alone, at least initially. There is a place to promote your work and this is not it. Tom & Veronica have helpfully set up a section for promo like this. Use it.

There should be a big flashing button on Goodreads that says "Authors, do not read reviews of your own books! If you do, definitely do not respond to them!" Down that path lies madness.

Brendan wrote: "Hang on now, I want to hear more from the guy that thinks a man with a sword on an alien world is a revolutionary concept."

/movie announcer voice

"Not since Edgar Rice Burroughs ...!"

Question:
If you have read only "a page of one [sic] Howard’s books years ago and gave it up", how can you know that "if you love Conan or Lord of the Rings you'll really enjoy this"? Just curious.

My initial thought is, that it's self promotion of the author's book. Though it's vagueness stops me from automatically placing it in the self promo section.

It isn't obvious which blog post we are supposed to be be discussing. I'm not clicking through every post.

I'll discuss any concept and idea, but I need the relevant information in the OP and a direct link, "if" I decide I need to read the whole article.

Wait... wait... did you rate your own book with 5 stars on Goodreads? Well, that's just... it's just... it's not good.

Brendan wrote: "There should be a big flashing button on Goodreads that says "Authors, do not read reviews of your own books! If you do, definitely do not respond to them!" Down that path lies madness."

madness and amusement for readers not involved with the mess. I swear, authors behaving badly because of a bad review is one of my guilty pleasures. Seriously though, don't do it. Don't read them, and if you read them don't respond to them.

Because it's a mixture of high and low fantasy. It's an alternative to that boring ass epic fantasy.

So, Thaman can trash me and I have to take it? You people must be devotees of that no talent, Stuart Thaman.

This blog wasn't written just for Goodreads. It was for my own blog. You people are so goddamn sensitive. You must be liberals. Everything has to be so, so politically correct and so non-offensive. I need a latte and support hug to calm myself. Oooo, that evil Dennis, expressing his opinion. Oooo. What is an opinion, oooo?

If this group doesn't like my post, then take it down. Shit. Amazing how Thaman can lie like shit and destroy other people's credibility and yet nothing is done. I write a piece about fantasy lit and the world comes to an end. Dumb. Go back to your latte and your reality TV.

Oh, and I'm not tricking people to look at my blog. That's bullshit. I'm expressing a view and if you people can't take someone thinking outside the box, oh well. You sound like a bunch of yes people. What have any of you done worthwhile except criticize others? Nothing. Probably never wrote one sentence.

As far as the girl with the sign, I like that. Ain't man enough to handle it? Probably. Deasthsteel this is a site for men, not lil' wussies.

Dennis wrote: "This blog wasn't written just for Goodreads. It was for my own blog. You people are so goddamn sensitive. You must be liberals. Everything has to be so, so politically correct and so non-offensive...."

Wow.

There’s a saying that applies here: “If one person calls you an ass, ignore them. If two people call you an ass, check behind you for hoof prints. If three people call you an ass, get fitted for a saddle.”

Meaning: if everyone is having the same reaction, maybe there’s something to it. Look at these reactions. Maybe the problem isn’t in our receivers.

What’s with the liberal thing? I know for a fact that two of the people who responded to you in this thread aren’t liberals. They’re not even all Americans, so our political standards don’t apply. The only sensitive snowflake here is you.


Dennis wrote: "What have any of you done worthwhile except criticize others? Nothing. Probably never wrote one sentence."

Two minutes of research would show you that a couple of the folks responding to you are published authors. My real name is readily available to anyone not too lazy to search for it, and you would discover that I am an award-winning filmmaker and photographer.

So yeah, we know what it’s like to put stuff out there. We know what it’s like to suffer the slings and arrows of criticisms. We also know how to act like adults.

Dennis wrote: "Because it's a mixture of high and low fantasy. It's an alternative to that boring ass epic fantasy."

If you want to talk genre, there are extant threads for that. I’d advise you to read them. My PhD thesis was to be on genre, so you will find dozens of posts from me alone discussing this topic, one that I have devoted a significant portion of my adult life pondering and researching.

But first you need to put away the attitude. Attacking everyone you disagree with isn’t going to get you anywhere.

Can we get a mod to delete this thread and ban this guy already?

Dara wrote: "Can we get a mod to delete this thread and ban this guy already?"

Lock the thread, maybe, but banning doesn’t help. People don’t learn and grow if we do that every time. If it devolves further from here, then sure, but everyone deserves a second chance. Even MAGAheads.

I expect bad reviews, but this Thaman has been harassing me. First, he tried to expel me from Reddit and then followed me onto Goodreads. I wasn't being a bad boy on Reddit, just trying to promote a book.

Dennis wrote: "I expect bad reviews, but this Thaman has been harassing me. First, he tried to expel me from Reddit and then followed me onto Goodreads. I wasn't being a bad boy on Reddit, just trying to promote ..."

As my Baptist friends say, “Give it back to the Devil.”

Based on your reaction to this thread, though, sight unseen I wouldn’t be surprised if he merely said, “Meh, not my cuppa,” and you immediately went to guns.

Dara, let's delete you since you can't tolerate opinions that you don't share. Yeah, I am a MAGA head, which means I'm not a socialist whacko and that I support free speech.

Oh, I have a bad attitude? I get jumped by a bunch of wild Indians and can't fire back? From all I have studied, fantasy began as hero worship and evolved into this D&D mess. But...I'd like to read your thesis. If someone has a different opinion and its well-founded, I am very open.

Trike wrote: "Lock the thread, maybe, but banning doesn’t help. People don’t learn and grow if we do that every time. If it devolves further from here, then sure, but everyone deserves a second chance. Even MAGAheads."

+5 to you for being nice but this guy doesn't want to have a discussion about genre. He wants to troll. He's not here to contribute to our community. So I'm out.

Wow, Dennis! If your intention here was to promote your work, I think you need to take a good look at your sales technique! (hint, insulting people isn't as effective as you may think).

If, on the other hand, you were just trying to get a rise out of people... Well, I hope it was worth it.

I asked for input about fantasy lit, all I got were personal attacks. I'm a mean person, but I never attack other people unless they come at me first. I also encourage other writers, telling them to hang in there. I don't believe in that cowardly 'let's tear him down to size" shit. The only writer I've attacked is that asshole Thaman. Attack my writings...but read them first.

Not sure the group cares one way or the other about Thaman. You walked in and started a fight in our house. Don't be surprised if we ask you to leave.

The smell of a usenet flamewar (well a rather lame attempt at starting one).

Dennis, I saw no personal attacks. The worst you got was people quoting your own words back at you. Most people here, myself included, attempted to engage with you and treated you fairly. I suspect you have no intention of actually engaging in a discussion about genre, but I'd love to be proved wrong. Nothing you have said gives me a clear idea of your views on the thread topic (high vs low fantasy). How do you view these terms and what are your feelings about them?

Who did I insult? I was responding to insults. As I said, you people are ultra-sensitive. Man or woman, up. You said I'm not discussing my topic, why don't you people give me some input instead of bashing me?

Your house? This a country club?

Dennis wrote: "You said I'm not discussing my topic, why don't you people give me some input instead of bashing me?."

As I suspected. You could have answered my questions and had that conversation you claim to want, but you are only interested in trying to provoke anger. Shame.

Okay, let's discuss. The fight is over. You're a fantasy enthusiast. What is your opinion? Am I wrong or is there two halves of fantasy lit? I wish Trike would send me his thesis. This I would love to read. May change my perspective. Also, do you think epic fantasy is too overdone? I say yes. it's become boring and redundant.

Oh my goodness. This is a delightful thread.

I mean, look I'm all for a discussion on what constituents high fantasy and where the line is, especially as fairy tale retellings are my cup of tea and they tend to tread that line quite finely. But this is not that thread, and I don't think it was ever intended to be that thread. It started as pure author self-promotion and turned into an epic flame-out. Fun to watch, but extremely counter productive.

Actually, the blog was written for Books-go-social, not Goodreads. Anyway, you're saying that folklore is an example of high fantasy? Okay, that's possible. Do you find elements in fairy tales and epic fantasy? That's interesting.

I'm so glad I came back to this thread to see if more people added to it. Was a great roller coaster ride of emotions.

Great. So what is your take on fantasy lit, especially epic fantasy? Is epic fantasy being overdone?

Dennis make a new thread to discuss any ideas related to genre fiction if you are genuine.

This has derailed and it is hard to see what the original point of the post was.

We will discuss anything here and do disagree with each other. But this is confusing.

I'm with Tassie Dave.

Dennis wrote: "Dara, let's delete you since you can't tolerate opinions that you don't share. Yeah, I am a MAGA head, which means I'm not a socialist whacko and that I support free speech."

I'm not deleting anyone, or shutting down this thread (yet) but can we stick to discussing the topic (if there is one)

Everyone here has different political views which can be respected. Our differences doesn't stop us debating and discussing ideas in a respectful and friendly way.

I am one of those socialist whackos. Go Bernie and AOC ;-) and an atheist to boot, which is fairly common in my State. I also support free speech, but not without limits.