You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

Hi all, we plan on starting on June 15.

I just bought the book and the third one. I am ready!

Woohoo

Great! My library hold just came available and will pick it up tomorrow. :)

Yay!! A newcomer!

Looking forward to this one. See you all after the toppler tomorrow.

I’m currently at chapter four.
The prologue had me wondering where this story was to go, from the first lines.
Chapter 1-3 (view spoiler)[the story of the art theft and the little chimney sweep was endearing. We know more about Mr. Piest. He is 37 but looks much older. His beat is along the row of pawnbrokers - because he is Dutch and his father was Jewish? He seems to know them and they trust him. The little boy was so sad.
Tim got the painting back and he and Mr. P. Split the reward, though, I wonder how Timothy will explain it to the Chief?

Now for Mrs. Adams. Slave catchers? In 1846? I guess I do know a little about it. The Underground Railroad was still moving former slaves up through New York into Canada. The book I am currently listening to is partially about a house that was built during that time frame. It has a secret room on the third floor, off of the library, where people were hidden. The family that built the house were all Abolitionists. It seems impossible that it would legal to kidnap free blacks in New York though. And Mrs. Adams has been kidnapped before??? I can’t wait to read more. (hide spoiler)]. What are all the bad omens about the weather. Did something happen on Valentine’s Day in 1846? I guess I better go look it up.

I too am currently at chapter four.

Cherie(view spoiler)[, yes I thought it was ingenious that Tim figured out how to talk to the boy and figure out how to get the painting back. I felt for the kid who didn’t seem to know his name. It was an endearing story.

As I recall the last time, the chief doesn’t care if they take rewards or bribes. So, I think Tim and Mr. Peist is okay on that front.

Mrs. Adams being kidnapped before was pretty crazy. I am curious as to the story.

Tim still is not over Mercy. That man is dedicated! (hide spoiler)]

Does anyone remember what year the first book took place? I was just wondering how long after that this one is. From the first few pages, it seems like the police are at least a little more established now.

Never mind. I had only read the prologue. Now I’ve started chapter 1, and it says six months between the first book and this one.

I thought the first one was 1846, in August. I think it is February, now, so it has to be 1847.x I was wrong!

In the prologue, February 14, 1846 is definitely written.

I just checked. The first one starts in the summer of 1845.

I am at chapter nine today, after reading a few hours off and on. I went over to my daughter's house to visit her and the boys.

There seems to be a lot of foreshadowing in this story than in the last. The chapter headers have taken on a completely different subject too, did you notice? Two very popular books, written by former slaves have been mentioned. Has anyone read either of them? I have not.

Chapter four (view spoiler)[oh, we get to see Julius Carpenter again. He is an "un-official watchman". LOL. I just thought this was funny, but probably should not, given the circumstances. All of the talk about what is "legal" and what is not, in this chapter, is so barbaric to me. 173 years ago. I cannot imagine living in this time period. I had to look up when the civil war was. This was 15 years before the civil war. Can you imagine taking morphine and ether together? I am amazed that Valentine has lived this long! (hide spoiler)]

chapter five (view spoiler)[ the chapter header says it all! Slave catchers. Didn't that just make you grit your teeth when Val broke that guy's wrist? I am glad they rescued the woman and boy, but what now? (hide spoiler)]

chapter six (view spoiler)[ "the sleeping with" conversation between Val and Tim was probably not needed. do you think it was added to make us see how "democratic" Val is? It seems like the author is always trying to make us like him. Can you imagine anyone having a riot over the color of Jesus these days? I had to look up the definition of amalgamation I could not figure out what they were talking about. I did not realize at first that they were talking about mixed races, or white men/women having sex with black men/women - although I think it is mostly white men having sex with black women. When Val started teasing Tim about Mercy, I wanted to slap him. So, Mr. Adams is a white man. hmmm... I thought it was nice of Val to leave and let the fugitives stay in his room for two days. More foreshadowing at the end of this chapter. (hide spoiler)]

chapter seven (view spoiler)[ I tried to look up weather events in NYC in February of 1846, but could not find anything specific. Funny that Mrs. Boehm' most reliable source of information was the Germans next door. The letter from Mercy was strange and sad, wasn't it? "Nearly Invisibly" Still waiting to find out how the letter did come from England without an envelope. Wow! I could not believe how Matsell "tested" Tim, and then turned around and smoothed everything over. This is the second time. He is a strange man. The end of this chapter was awful! (hide spoiler)]

chapter eight (view spoiler)[OMG! Is that Mulqueen guy in league with the slave catchers? I definitely don't like him. How awful that Tim had to do what he did, but I could not see any other way around it either. It was nice to see Bird again, and I am so glad that Tim has Mrs. Boehm to talk to. I was shocked when Mr. Higgins said that Julius was in the hands of Varker and Coles! (hide spoiler)]

Cherie, all of your comments are spot on. I thought the same things. I am glad we see Bird again.

I’m on chapter 10 and some of those chapters still make me sick!

Cherie wrote: "I’m currently at chapter four.
The prologue had me wondering where this story was to go, from the first lines.
Chapter 1-3

Mr. Piest: (view spoiler)[ He's turning out to be one of my favorite supporting characters in this series. He's so focused most of the time, and at first, Tim didn't know what to make of him, but he's proven himself more than capable several times now. He's also fair and kind in a quiet way, and I like that. He and Tim seem to be becoming real friends at this point instead of just colleagues. (hide spoiler)]

I've just finished chapter 8.

Cherie, about your chapter 6 spoilers (view spoiler)[I don't know exactly why the whole conversation about who Tim should sleep with and whether mixed-race relationships were acceptable was included here. I suspect that it was to give us another glimpse into Val's character as you pointed out. We're either supposed to see how open-minded and progressive he is or we're supposed to understand that convention and proper societal norms mean nothing to him. Either way, I think it was probably unnecessary, and really, the talk about how Tim should sleep with the sister to help her recover from her ordeal was just repulsive. (hide spoiler)]

My thoughts through chapter 8: (view spoiler)[Okay, the whole idea of slave catchers kind of makes me sick. I know that the underground railroad existed during this time and how dangerous it must have been for slaves, but I mistakenly thought that once a slave reached the northern states he or she was free and couldn't be forced to return to the south. I had no idea that slave catchers existed. We're getting lots of foreshadowing about the Civil War which we know is coming, and even though it's not an easy subject, the chief is right when he talks to Tim about it being more than just an issue of slaves. The whole economy and way of life will change if slavery ends. That's his take at least, and because we have knowledge of the future, we know that he was correct. In addition, the chief is worried about what will happen if the northern states lose that war. It's a difficult time. I wonder how many people had some of these exact thoughts in real life. Val and the chief both talk about how slavery is an abomination, and yet they are both cautious about getting involved. I wonder what would have happened if everyone who was anti-slavery stepped forward much earlier in history despite the risks.

As for the rest of the plot so far, I was wondering where we were going as it seemed like things got wrapped up quickly. Family safe, slave catchers threatened and hurt, Val showing himself to be a decent human being again after all, the chief and Tim coming to a bit of an understanding; but then of course, everything gets derailed with the death of Mrs. Adams. I'm glad Tim had the presence of mind to remove the body from his brother's home. The first thought I have is that the slave catchers somehow found them and returned, but that seems like too easy of a solution; so I really wonder what's going to happen next.

And now they have Julius. That's awful! I hope Tim manages to track them down before Julius is dead. I like him and want him to continue to be a character in the books.

The letter from Mercy is completely weird. I thought maybe it wasn't really from her, just a cruel joke from Val or something, but Tim recognizes her handwriting so I guess probably not. I do think it's suspicious though. Maybe she's not in London at all, but back in New York? (hide spoiler)]

I am planning on starting the book tomorrow.

I have just finished chapter 12. This story just gets stranger and stranger.

About Julius: (view spoiler)[I'm so glad that Tim was able to come up with a way to save him at the last second, but it's disturbing to think how easily that whole thing could have gone the other way. Now, Julius will be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life probably even more than he did before. (hide spoiler)]

About Mrs. Adams: (view spoiler)[Why am I not surprised that a politician is somehow involved in this. He claims she was his housekeeper, but she described herself to Tim as his wife. Maybe they have agreed to keep that mostly secret, but I doubt it. I also doubt that he really thinks she's moved out without telling him if they've had such a close relationship. So the vigilance committee doesn't yet know about her death or her missing sister and son. I don't envy Tim the task of telling them. Val is being secretive and sideways as usual. I don't know what he knows or thinks he knows, but I wish he would be forthcoming about it. I really think that part of these narratives doesn't ring quite true to character. I'm not sure that I see Tim as such a weaker man that he wouldn't be more forceful in expecting his brother to share his plans. If this is literally the first time he believes Val has lied to him, I think is reaction was much more mild than it might have been. Finally, Miss Marsh is back? Really? I understand that she gets around and has wide interests and acquaintances all in the name of securing her own position, but it's a little too coincidental that she's right in the middle of this case as well. Even then, New York was a big place. I think I would have preferred that she have a less prominent role in this one. Oh well, we'll see how it all plays out. (hide spoiler)]

Jayme wrote: "I am planning on starting the book tomorrow."

Yay!

Ok so I have read chapters 1 - 4. I agree with your comments Cherie. I also think that (view spoiler)[ the little mute boy in chapter 1 is going to be important later on. Will he help them get out of or into tight quarters?
Also with regards to The Fugitive Slave Acts which was the law at the time regarding suspected runaway slaves, it was illegal to capture a freed man and take him south; however the slave catchers could just claim that the person was a "suspected" slave and then it was illegal for someone to intervene in the capture. They will change the law in 1850, but it favors the South and that will lead to The Great Compromise which is the final fuel for the beginning of the Civil War - history teacher here :) (hide spoiler)]

I’m sorry I’ve been so MIA the last three days. We(my work group) are in the last frantic minutes of getting a new product ready to launched and they finally decided to request my help with the promotions on Monday afternoon. I haven’t had a minute to open my book or log-in during the day and I have been bone tired by the time I get home. I also wanted to finish my space book because I was so close to the end.

I finally made it through chapter nine and ten tonight and only dozed off once. I will try to read your spoilers tomorrow and comment.

Tricia wrote: "I've just finished chapter 8.

Cherie, about your chapter 6 spoilers [spoilers removed]

"

I have read through to chapter 10 and I agree Tricia about chapter 8
(view spoiler)[ I don't think Mercy is in London either. I was wondering if she was with Val's "friend" who just came back from London? And that letter was really weird. (hide spoiler)]

Through Chapter 14 (view spoiler)[ Ok it is becoming a little more interesting. I wonder if Gates really was involved in Lucy Adams death. He seemed very upset finding out she was dead. I think someone in the Democratic party may have killed her to frame Val who is becoming a leader in he party. Just an idea. (hide spoiler)]

Also, is anyway else getting annoyed with how Faye is throwing around the slang/flash talk? I don't think it is necessary to the story to replace kinchen for child every time.

I am almost finished with the book. I have spent the last two days in a hospital with a friend who had surgery, so it has given me a lot of reading time.

Through Chapter 18 (view spoiler)[ I am really upset that George Higgins may not be as wonderful and concerning as I previously thought. I thought he had feelings for Delia, but if his own mother doesn't want him to know about her workings with the Underground Railroad and where Delia is that is a big red flag.

Also, I know Wilde loves Mercy, but I kind of want something to happen between him and Mrs. Boehm. (hide spoiler)]

Interesting comment Jayme regarding Wilde in chapter 18. I had thought the same thing.

Jayme wrote: "Ok so I have read chapters 1 - 4..."

Loved your school teacher comments. Yes the whole Slave Catcher thing was just wrong.

Oh - you have all jumped ahead of where I stopped, so I could only read one of Jayme's spoilers in message 21 regarding Mercy. (view spoiler)[ I may have missed the reference about Val's friend - from London, or just returned from London. I will look back at chapter 8. (view spoiler)[

I finished my work at about 8:30 and have been on-line updating my movie challenge task. I'm going to go home now, since I cannot read any more spoilers. (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

I’m finished. I got caught up in the story. I do like the excepts from other books at the beginning of every chapter.

Do not read until finished(view spoiler)[I cannot believe that Mrs. Boehm and Tim finally get together. I’m uncertain with the ending and his message in a bottle. Is he finally giving up on Mercy? The letter doesn’t indicate that but at the same time he’s putting the letter in a bottle and not mail. It has me confused. I’m also confused with his current relationship status. It doesn’t seem like either one wants a relationship just someone to comfort each other but again Tim sends this message telling Mercy he loves her. I also thought about how he was quick to judge Val had her which is why the letters are unaddressed which makes me realize he’s always going to be skeptical with Val and Mercy. So, perhaps he should stay away from Mercy.

Val was loving, kind, evil and frustrating throughout this book. He helps out Lucy and the family. You find out he loves Jim. He goes crazy when Tim gets abducted and hurt. Yet, he talks about getting with a women at the end. He’s such a character.

My heart broke when Julius was killed. I don’t know how Tim will get through it. Julius was always there when he needed him and vice versus. Sad!

Ms. Marsh, I would like to hurt her so very much. She’s so evil and cannot see past her nose. She thinks Val would come to her if he was in trouble. Not very damn likely.

The ending with him and Bird was touching. I thought that was very sweet. (hide spoiler)]

This was a very good book and I cannot wait to see how this trilogy ends!

I'm also finished and agree with your thoughts Jannene about the end of the book.

Do not read until finished (view spoiler)[ I thought it was sad, but needed that Tim finally wrote his feelings to Mercy and it even makes sense that he put the letter in a bottle. In one of her letters she mentions their talk about sending letters in a bottle. I think that is the only way they can be honest with themselves and each other.

I really can't wait to read the third book because I am hoping that Silkie Marsh will finally get what is coming to her. What an evil woman.

I do have to admit that it took me awhile to figure out what had actually happened to Lucy and the last chapters had me frantically page turning. Great story (hide spoiler)]

Jayme wrote: "I am almost finished with the book. I have spent the last two days in a hospital with a friend who had surgery, so it has given me a lot of reading time.

Through Chapter 18 I am really upset that..."

(view spoiler)[I agree. If I'm being honest, I actually really have a hard time with the character of Mercy and can't figure out why Tim keeps pining over her. I want to yell at him to get over it already. (hide spoiler)]

I'm finished as well. I've been out of town for the past couple of days, again, so lots of reading but no computer access.

Anyway, I agree with everyone's thoughts so far.

Do not read until you've finished: (view spoiler)[The letter in a bottle seemed a bit strange to me as well. Tim mentions that he will write another letter to Mercy delivered by more conventional means but the one in the bottle is more for himself. I think the one he writes her will be far less revealing and won't force her to confront his feelings for her outright. He seems to protect her even from himself, and that annoys me to no end. I will be really upset if the next book tries to say that she found the message in a bottle.

Ugg! Julius's death was excruciating. What a devastating blow to Tim! I am happy that he stayed true to character, though, and gave his life to save the others. I hope that "Delia" and George find happiness in Canada and that we get a look at their lives in the third book.

I love Bird. She is such a character, wise beyond her years yet still managing to enjoy some childish things like baking cakes for her classmates. I'm so glad she was in this one. I was afraid we wouldn't have any more contact with her after the first book.

Finally, Tim's love life. I'm rooting for him and Mrs. Boehm to work out there feeling for each other. I think she is much better suited to him than Mercy. And, I'm sorry, but the fact that Mercy once slept with his brother no matter the circumstances would be a real sticking point for me. Plus, she's just a little too emotionally fragile for him. Is she really going to be able to handle the work he does and the danger he gets into? Mrs. Boehm can. (hide spoiler)]

I finished the book.
Jannene, I agree with you
(view spoiler)[ I think Val is still not sure he knows what he wants in life or the man he wants to be. One minute is nice and generous and boom he changes into an ass. Now we find out he bisexual. At least we don't get bored with him.
Poor Julius, was surprised he was killed, such a good man and friend to Timothy. I liked the fact that now George and Timothy are friends.
Mrs Marsh - I hope she get wants coming to her, what an evil cruel B... (hide spoiler)]

Dom you always make me laugh. “At least we don’t get bored with him.” Too funny!!

Jannene wrote: "Dom you always make me laugh. “At least we don’t get bored with him.” Too funny!!"

lol, but it's true!

oh, good grief - you are all done again! I made it to chapter 20 last night and haven't managed to read anything today, while at work. I was just getting ready to go home.

Jayme - re flash/trash talk = yes, I am tired of some of it, but I get it that she is consistent with it, at least.

re George (view spoiler)[ I was surprised about George's mother not telling him that Delila was in her safe house too. I think it was explained later, why. I am still unsure of him though. He is definitely very emotional. (hide spoiler)]

I am sorry but I am just brain dead. I can hardly think straight and my fingers do not want to type anymore today. I guess I will give it a wrap when I am done, since I cannot read any more spoilers.

Oh - re the chimney sweep boy (view spoiler)[ someone mentioned that he might be important later on. I thought it was funny when Tim was drawing Gage's house and realized that they may be able to use him to break in. Now, they are off to find him. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 20 (view spoiler)[Yay! They got the papers. Julius is ok. What was all the foreshadowing at the beginning of the chapter all about? (hide spoiler)]

Cherie,
(view spoiler)[I was so glad they got the papers and additional ones at that. You’ll find out the foreshadowing later. (hide spoiler)]

Oh, Cherie finished!!

Ironic, we all rated the book 4 stars!!

I tried to check in last night, but I could not get onto GoodReads.

I don't have my tablet with me, so I cannot really go back and update, but basically I liked the story and the way it ended. (view spoiler)[ at least as far as George went with the woman and Jonas and the mute boy. I cried about Julius. I laughed about Tim and Mrs. B. I guess it was good emotional relief. I am not sure I really understood all of the scene with Silkie Marsh. She really did not intend for the woman to kill herself. Is this right?
I was so happy for Tim when he went back to his "office" and found the desk and books and all the guys let him know how much they thought about him. (hide spoiler)] I am looking forward to reading the next one.

I just read all of the spoilers that I could not read before.

re Val (view spoiler)[he really is a strange man. I was surprised about him and Jim. Of all of the things, that does not seem likely, but who knows. I really think the author uses him as a protagonist for Tim's emotional life. Someone to focus his anger on. I am not sure he slept with Mercy. Did he really say he did? I cannot remember. I liked Jim, but he was a very sad character. I wonder if we will see him again? (hide spoiler)]

re Bird (view spoiler)[I did not quite get the scene with her and Tim at the school when she told him that she woke up wrong. However, I was so happy that Tim went to her and hugged her and told her that she mattered. That was very touching and made me feel so happy for her AND Tim. (hide spoiler)]

re Mrs. Boehm (view spoiler)[ I loved it when she attacked him at the front door and yelled at him for making her worry when he did not come back for so long. It was like Mrs. Hudson yelling at Watson in the author's first book Dust and Shadow: An Account of the Ripper Killings by Dr. John H. Watson when he nor Holmes had been home for a couple of days. Doesn't it seem like she gets younger every time Tim talks about her? I think they can be good for each other emotionally (and physically) but I am not sure Tim is really ready to give up Mercy. We will see. (hide spoiler)]

re Mercy (view spoiler)[ the letter in the bottle was Tim's way of working out his feelings and saying things to her that he could not before she went away. I think their relationship may just become one on paper. Tim has accepted that he let her go away and never said anything to stop her. He is finally accepting that he may not be too ugly to be loved. Maybe she will come back. Who knows??? (hide spoiler)]

When should we start the next one? I am ready anytime. I already bought it. (It was all I could do, not to read the beginning that was in the end of the second book.)

Re: Val (view spoiler)[Mercy said he was her first one. She said that she thought they were more than friends and found out they were not. (hide spoiler)]

I can start any time as well on the new book. I’m almost done with the one I have going now.

Let me check with Dom. She had surgery and is having a hard time reading right now.