Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

No genuine change in society ever occurs without the mass public getting behind a cause. The good guys in government are counting on enough of us common people waking up and demanding more rights and greater freedoms.

So let’s start building this new world together...A fairer society where every citizen is truly equal regardless of wealth, social background, nationality, education, race, gender or sexuality.

Well said Lance!
I think it's time for us to stop pigeon holing everything into one belief system or another. Communism, Capitalism, Socialism... Let's forget the isms. Let's make things simple and base our world on priorities for the greater good.
Everyone should be fed, housed and have access to health care. Energy should be free. Let's put those things at the top of the agenda above anything else.

When we realise we're all on the same side and we all want a better world of peace and justice, the world will change instantly.

To quote Gandhi: "Be the change that you want to see in the world."

Everyone should have the opportunity to have the basic necessities of life, but they should be earned and not lean on others to provide them. This is the problem that we see, there are some in this society who believe that they are owed everything without any effort on their part to achieve them.

Harry wrote: "Well said Lance!
I think it's time for us to stop pigeon holing everything into one belief system or another. Communism, Capitalism, Socialism... Let's forget the isms. Let's make things simple and...

Couldn't agree more Harry.

Clark wrote: "Everyone should have the opportunity to have the basic necessities of life, but they should be earned and not lean on others to provide them. This is the problem that we see, there are some in thi..."

Especially in the West, Clark. Unfortunately, many in Third World countries don't even have that luxury. But your point is taken.

Clark, although I agree with you about people leaning and not achieving in our present society, I believe that's symptomatic of the rich/poor world we have. For me, all basic human needs should be given without any exceptions. When everyone has those basics, society will change for the better as a result.

Harry wrote: "Everyone should be fed, housed and have access to health care. Energy should be free. Let's put those things at the top of the agenda above anything else..."

Well said, Harry!

And to go your very apt Gandhi quote, here is a quote from Jimi Hendrix that I also think fits in with for this discussion: "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."

I gotta thinking... and then I gotta writing... and this is what I came up with:

THE HOPE FOR WORLD PEACE.

I would argue that conspiracy theorists/believers/fact-ists fall into three categories:

1. Those that get caught up in sensationalist rumours because they live for gossip and anything outside of their small lives.
2. Those that get caught up with trying to solve a mystery for the sake of their own egos and urges; to be a Sherlock Holmes. e.g- those that know everything there is to know about JFK and are still hoping they'll be the ones to finally find out the truth... when the world has moved on, and there are more pressing things that are worthy of our attention.
3. Those that want a better world.

I would also argue that those that don't call themselves conspiracy believers/theorists, but who do want a better world, and actively try to make a difference- through protest, activism, petitions... whatever- are indeed conspiracy believers themselves, only they won't call themselves that.
And that's where a lot of our divisions come from: using words to name one thing this or that when both are the same. (Gandhi and Mandela both used to be terrorists, for example.) But what do I mean? Well, take Watergate for instance. This was called a 'scandal', like so many other examples I could give of illegal/corrupt politics. We know it happened, so of course it's not a 'conspiracy theory'. But what if it had never come out into the open? What if there was only one whistle blower who had got rumours circulating, though he had little evidence and no one in mainstream media was talking about it? Well, then it would be a conspiracy theory.
So, those of us that fall into camp number 3, tend to believe in political corruption, scandals, specific conspiracies- of backhanders, for example, and so on. And yet, those in camp 3 will still spend their time arguing over who's right and who's wrong and will then disagree over what needs to be done about it, and they'll split into their own little factions. It is time to stop this behaviour. It is time for us to come together and recognise what we commonly want and agree upon, rather than what we don't agree with.
The Occupy Movement is a good example. I'm sure many think it's fantastic that people can still protest in this way, when our rights for protesting are diminishing in the West as much as they had been in the East. But the problem with Occupy is: they don't know what they want. Camp 3ers spend so much time agreeing on what they DON'T want, that they forget they don't have any solid answers to replace the old. What's the point in being anti-Capitalist, if you're not pro something else? Not that any other ism system will ever be any better. It's time to make things simpler.

We have enough food. We have enough space. We have enough energy (if we start using other means). We have enough water. We have enough of everything to give the basic human rights to every single person. If only we would redistribute the wealth. Easier said than done, I know. But I'm saying if we can all agree on what DOES need to be done, then maybe we can do it. Imagining something is the first step to making it happen.
If EVERYONE who wants a better world, and not just camp 3ers, were to start agreeing over things like: everyone in the world should have shelter, food and water- and DEMAND that above ANYTHING else, and were prepared to go on strike and live starving and desperate until it was implemented, it wouldn't be long before a plan of action happened. (The rich need us to work for them after all.)
It's easy to think that the world is a terrible place and things are getting worse and worse. But when we look at things from a more objective perception, we'll soon see how much we've accomplished with human rights in such a short amount of time. Why, in only a century, we've managed to liberate women, black people, other ethnic minorities, the LGBT community and so many other examples. When people say protest doesn't work, they're simply wrong. It only doesn't work if people don't protest. And we need to know what we're protesting for.
We should come together and protest for what every one in the world should have- those basics of life. THEN we can move on to whatever else we can imagine.
Stop arguing over party politics, immigration, homeland security and all those other distractions. If charities took the place of governments, we'd soon see the world change. Why do we give our monies in the form of taxes for some things we need and some things we certainly don't want (Project Trident springs to mind) to governments (that only pretty much always half of the population have voted for)? Governments should work for us, not vice versa. Why are we 'happy' to give our money to a system that demands it, when we could all refuse and instead give it to charity? Why do we take more than we give? Why are we more selfish than compassionate and emphatic? Why shouldn't our governments' first priority be those basic needs? Why shouldn't we want our 'taxes' to go to that?
Why is an X Box more important than feeding someone?
And don't tell me we need the money for security. That's living in fear. Base our society on needs, justice, love and defence only, and others will soon leave you alone.
Hell, if some terrorists want a goddamn Islamic State, let's just build one in the bloody ocean and give it to 'em. (I appreciate that's a simple minded view bearing no reality whatsoever, but I hope you get my point.)
We don't have our priorities straight. Anyone that believes in government conspiracies of any kind- which I would argue EVERYONE believes in to some degree, they just don't name it that, and anyone who wants a better world, should be demanding it right now. (And anyone that believes there is no corruption simply needs to be better educated.) We have the numbers. We just need to stop isolating ourselves into 'socialists' or 'conspiracy theorists' or 'peace campaigners' or 'Greenpeace' or 'Anti-Capitalists'... or... or...
We shouldn't even expect to see that peaceful world we imagine in our lifetimes. We shouldn't be doing it for ourselves. We should put the many before the one.
But how? How the hell do we really make a world of peace come true? That's ridiculous, surely? Well, if you keep on thinking that, then that's the world we'll be stuck with.
One last thought:
Crime comes from poverty. You can't deny that. And yet, we'll try and fix the problem by putting a band aid on it, rather than looking at the root problem and changing that. We'll solve the problem of crime with more and more security, and CCTV and body scanners at airports, and- extremely worrying, coming soon- drones, and yet, does it ever make crime diminish? No. Only one thing can do that: by ending poverty. The charities of the world know what needs to be done. The governments don't. They keep us sidetracked whilst implementing their own selfish agendas. We're hoodwinked into thinking things like eradicating poverty are impossible. They're not.

Harry wrote: "I gotta thinking... and then I gotta writing... and this is what I came up with:

THE HOPE FOR WORLD PEACE.

I would argue that conspiracy theorists/believers/fact-ists fall into three categories:
..."

Bravo Harry! Your latest should be compulsory reading.

Cheers Lance! Peace and blessings to ya!

Harry wrote: "Well said Lance!
I think it's time for us to stop pigeon holing everything into one belief system or another. Communism, Capitalism, Socialism... Let's forget the isms. Let's make things simple and..."

I agree with much of what you say. However that is utopia you are talking of. All people don't ascribe to the idea of selflessness. That Ghandi quote is one of my favourites but it was said with the idea that we simply can't save people from themselves, that we can't change people's thinking, ambitions for power etc. What we can change is ourselves.

We constantly have people with the idea that they are right and that we have to be active in changing the world. If we look to ourselves and try to perfect ourselves, be humble, caring, forgiving, non-judgmental, all the positive things, then we can hope that others will see our improvement and want to emulate it.

Laureen wrote: "Harry wrote: "Well said Lance!
I think it's time for us to stop pigeon holing everything into one belief system or another. Communism, Capitalism, Socialism... Let's forget the isms. Let's make thi..."

I agree with both of you.

For example - considering that everyone here knows Jacques Fresco's life work - I love his Venus Project and it's very near perfection (with some loose ends but nothing's perfect), but you'll never gather enough people willing to live like that.
The human nature in itself will never allow it. We have the intelligence but we don't have the guts. Our intelligence comes into confrontation with our instincts and hell breaks loose. It's constantly happening. We know better than this, but our ego and selfishness is alwyas a step ahead, no matter how good our intentions are.

I do my best: I'm an activist, I donate every now and then, I try to exploit animals and humans the least but I know that I'm a drop in a million. People are too selfish to realize that even if they're considered a tiny grain of sand on a beach their actions actually HELP and call even more people into this.

But let's be honest, people will never understand that and this will be our end.

Íris wrote: "Laureen wrote: "Harry wrote: "Well said Lance!
I think it's time for us to stop pigeon holing everything into one belief system or another. Communism, Capitalism, Socialism... Let's forget the isms..."

Hope your concluding statement ("But let's be honest, people will never understand that and this will be our end.") ain't prohetic Iris...If it is then we really are all doomed. Personally I cling to a faint hope people will eventually come to realise their actions do actually help and do somethin bout it. Maybe not this century...but some time.

Reminds me of a saying we have Down Under...She'll be right mate.

Lance wrote: "Íris wrote: "Laureen wrote: "Harry wrote: "Well said Lance!
I think it's time for us to stop pigeon holing everything into one belief system or another. Communism, Capitalism, Socialism... Let's fo..."

I really want to believe it, I really do, but then I remember:
- America's constant fight against everything (Islam; ISIS, Drugs, Terrorism, etc, and we all know here that they only invade when resources are at stake - like oil, for example)
- Fukushima Radioactive Disaster
- Amazon Rainforest will be gone in about 10 years
- Eugenics
- Lab-grown global decimating diseases
- Hidden weapons enough to destroy the world in one sitting
- Oceans to be depleted of major lifeforms in about 20 years

And more things I can't remember right now. Our planet has been putting up with our silly and imprudent actions for a very long time now.
Which is stolen from Nature will be recovered twice. She may delay but she won't fail.

I wish I wasn't right, but at the same time most of us deserve what's coming our way.

Íris wrote: "I really want to believe it, I really do, but then I remember:
- America's constant fight against everything (Islam; ISIS, Drugs, Terrorism, etc, and we all know here that they only invade when resources are at stake - like oil, for example)
- Fukushima Radioactive Disaster
- Amazon Rainforest will be gone in about 10 years
- Eugenics
- Lab-grown global decimating diseases
- Hidden weapons enough to destroy the world in one sitting
- Oceans to be depleted of major lifeforms in about 20 years
..."

All those sad things are true, Iris, and completely undeniable.
But then I remember all other changes in our recent history:

-Fall of the Berlin Wall when almost everybody said that'd never happen or at least never happen for many decades.
-The sophisticated concept of the 1% vs 99% reaching popular consciousness and being reported in the mainstream media.
-One million Filipinos marching into the capital Manila and singlehandedly overthrowing the dictator Ferdinand Marcos in 1986 in an awesome display of people power (which can also occur elsewhere anywhere anytime).
-People worldwide trying to erase extreme poverty from the Earth in the "Make Poverty History" campaign which ultimately failed but there seemed to be an understanding for the first time that it is possible...

I could go on and on.
So by making a prediction that humanity will end in its current state is a big call and overlooking the human spirit I believe - not to mention key events in history. More and more people are becoming aware and awakening. The mass populace are immensely powerful, it's just that currently not enough common citizens realize that.

My prediction is there will be a point where it hits critical mass...Then the global elite's power structure will crumble like the house of cards it always was.

Meanwhile your predictions of pollution destroying the Earth in the near future are all true IF you accept that all science has to offer is official science. Having researched military science for many years and spoken to those who have worked in these fields, I definitely do not accept official science is all there is. There's advanced free energy Tesla-style science that's currently classified but will be released in years to come that will not pollute the Earth. But that all ties in with the peaceful revolution and the people standing up and demanding that all suppressed technologies and inventions be released for the greater good. I'm totally confident that will happen - and sooner rather than later.

James wrote: "Íris wrote: "I really want to believe it, I really do, but then I remember:
- America's constant fight against everything (Islam; ISIS, Drugs, Terrorism, etc, and we all know here that they only in..."

I agree with most of what you said but - environmentally speaking - I think we've already reached the point of no return, or are on the verge of it.
Even if we try to reverse everyone's traing of thought and make them see things as they really are, as you said yourself, it's not as easy as it seems.

I wonder what would happen if suddenly everyone stopped giving a damn about mainstream music, media, the Oscars and all that flare they shove down our throats. I think there would be revolutions on a scale of astounding proportions. Many would become martyrs, yes, but many times I wonder, because so much could happen, what's your opinion if the conscience in people changed overnight?

I'd love to hear everyone's opinion on this.

Oh, by the way, these facts I told you about environment/nature are not endorsed by "popular" science or the media. I just read a lot about the subject because I take it very close to my heart.

Please don't sound so desperate Iris. We have wonderful people in this world and they may be a minority, but they will prevail in saving mankind. It requires more of us to come to a common understanding. Too many people are not prepared to make sacrifices without asking "what's in it for me?".

Even when we vote, that is our prime question instead of the good of everybody in our nation. We classify good Government by how much better off we will be under their rule. We have to stop believing in fantasy and take charge. What is best for us should be what is best for all. However it is up to everybody yo pull their weight. We all must contribute to our welfare.

Laureen wrote: "Please don't sound so desperate Iris. We have wonderful people in this world and they may be a minority, but they will prevail in saving mankind. It requires more of us to come to a common unders..."

Yes, I do see your point. And I'm trying to be one of those people, even here in the middle of nowhere. I think that in general it's very easy to come to common understanding, supposing everyone wants:
- Same rights;
- Same wages;
- Same visibility;
- Same goods and resources distribution;
- Same healthcare;
- And so on...

My question is: how do we take charge? Is it by the small actions? Are the small actions enough? Do we need to put our life on the line? Does voting for this or that government will ever make a difference whatsoever?
If it means t oput our life on the line that would explain why many people can't get out there, nobody wants to lose their own life, no matter the cost. Survival instinct is always the priority.


Ok, I sound annoying, but is by asking myself questions that I've been finding the answer to some of them. I think that asking oneself questions is a great way to develop one's brain, emotional intelligence, creativity and easiness towards solving issues, personal or colective.

Íris wrote: "what's your opinion if the conscience in people changed overnight?
..."

Instant change would occur and injustices would be erased once and for all.
However, for major changes in society I don't think everyone has to awaken. There just needs to be a certain percentage because the awakened ones are leaders and awaken others.
I feel we are close to that point.
Even though the planet has never been in worse shape and the problems have never been greater and humanity has arguably never been closer to potential extinction, there have conversely never been more people awakened than now.
So the stakes are high and the challenges immense, but the potential is unlimited.

Íris wrote: "And I'm trying to be one of those people, even here in the middle of nowhere. ..."

Angola ain't the middle of nowhere in my books, Iris. It's on the continent that has amazing diversity and vibrant people and Africa will be at the forefront of the coming peaceful revolution I strongly sense.

Íris wrote: "My question is: how do we take charge? Is it by the small actions? Are the small actions enough? Do we need to put our life on the line? Does voting for this or that government will ever make a difference whatsoever? ..."

At the risk of repeating myself or sounding like a broken record:
"Do your little bit of good wherever you are; it's those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world." -Desmond Tutu

Tutu said this before Apartheid came to an end. He said this when it seemed hopeless that Mandela would ever be released or that the minority white government in South Africa would ever be overthrown.
Yet, he knew, that if enough people come together and peacefully demand their rights, eventually it MUST happen.

BELIEVE :)

Iris. Love not war changes everything. Yes - what a tired old cliche. War, vengeance, violence and hatred have never worked. Many think that, individually, we have no ability to make important changes to the way people think.

Well, newspapers and other media don't believe that so why should we? We may appear insignificant discussing world issues on this thread, but, hey, we are expressing ourselves and causing contemplation. It is so important to be

heard, in the scale of things. And what safer place to do it than on this site. People can take or leave what we say but we can say it. Many people in the world are not fortunate enough to live in a free society (sometimes ours is too free) and to be heard. That is a lonely place to be.

I think you are overstating the peril our planet is in. Yes, we have to be careful for our future but remember the Industrial Age? I think we are in a much more promising state now than t he people of that era would have felt. We have technology these days which lays out, happily for media interests, the horrible events of the day. How often do they tell us good stories?

James, I don't think you can have a group of people together to "peacefully demand" it's rights. Isn't "peacefully demand" an oxymoron? Demand means to take another's rights and replace them with your own - is that not so?

I still maintain that the only person we can change is ourselves. Others are responsible for themselves. If we demand someone else change then we are refusing them the freedom to chose their own path. If we can change ourselves for the better, then we may become a mentor rather than an oppressor.

Laureen wrote: "Demand means to take another's rights and replace them with your own - is that not so?
..."

I don't agree demand means to take another's rights. I think you can demand justice peacefully by standing your ground on important issues. The example I gave of one million Filipino citizens marching onto the parliament in Manila and successfully ousting President Marcos without a drop of blood shed would be an example of peacefully demanding justice. Or a peaceful revolution if you will.

But spiritually speaking then yes, I agree all change must start from within otherwise it can never be a lasting change.
We must all change on the individual level, but at the same time we must be prepared to collectively create change in the outer world as well. And in this regard I found this quote from the film JFK written & directed by Oliver Stone: "Justice does not happen automatically. Individual men, like the members of my staff here, have to work and fight to make it happen, and individual men like you have to make justice come into being, because otherwise it doesn't happen."

So basically I believe in an organic synthesis of change on the individual (inner) level and change on the global (outer) level. If either of those two things are missing it's not real change.

Kevin Costner's final courtroom speech in JFK is well worth a watch in this regard: https://www.goodreads.com/videos/7407...

We seem to base our beliefs on what is and isn't possible to achieve (in this case, a fairer and peaceful future) on past and present human behaviour. If some form of Atlantis, or a number of previous civilisations before the Great Flood, (as scholars are beginning to believe) did exist, it's possible that they lived in a world of peace and co-operation. I don't mean to go off on a tangent, but if there was some long ago history that we knew of as fact, then it would be much easier for us all to believe 'peace could reign again'.
Similarly, we tend to only look into the future to a certain degree, because we find it unfathomable to truly imagine what the world may be like in 73000 A.D (for instance) outside of wild speculation. Because we have this human way of looking at time, when it comes to things like: Is peace achievable? we seem to always look at it from a past, present and near future perspective. And the answers from those perspectives all say: Nah, you're fucked. Peace can't be had.
But what if we ask, could it be possible in a thousand years... two... ten...
Would we find it less important to achieve if we knew it wouldn't come for thousands of years?

The point, which I think I had in there somewhere, is that my outlook for such things isn't based on any goddamn planned out pie chart of expectations. I simply believe in a better and fairer world and will do what I can to make that happen. As long as we're doing what we can, then we'll have played our parts for the future betterment of the world, regardless of when that comes.

And whilst I'm off on one...

If countries were made up of such things as similar attitudes rather than race, maybe everyone could live how THEY wanted to.

(Meant in a Lennon utopian way).

Oh Naim (message 26), I love you. Every thing you have said here rings true. We can't change the world by force but by caring for it. Even so called peaceful force is wrong. Humans and the Earth need time and loving care to heal.

Naim, I'm pretty much with you. And it's good to see new opinions in this group on the idea of creating a better world. After all, why bother to expose these conspiracy subjects if not because we want to stop them?!

I was fighting a bit of a lone battle in the War, what is it good for? thread for a while!

Laureen, absolutely! re; "We can't change the world by force but by caring for it. Even so called peaceful force is wrong." Too right.

Thank you Edward, beautifully realized.

Harry wrote: "War, what is it good for?..."

Absolutely nothing.

Lance wrote: "No genuine change in society ever occurs without the mass public getting behind a cause. The good guys in government are counting on enough of us common people waking up and demanding more rights a..."

nonsense old chap; some of the smallest groups of determined people have made the biggest changes in history....I wish I could give you an example...dr. William pierce said that many years ago.

James wrote: "nonsense old chap; some of the smallest groups of determined people have made the biggest changes in history....I wish I could give you an example...dr. William pierce said that many years ago."

Well old chap, I wish you could give me an example, too. Small groups and even individuals (M.L.King Jr., Gandhi, Mandela, Churchill etc. etc.) have certainly sparked huge changes throughout history, but for genuine, lasting change in society to be realized, society (aka the mass public / humanity / civilization) must embrace those changes for them to succeed. I think the government of the day learned that lesson in the French Revolution.

yes lance; your looking at the big picture..very well. I will give you a quality example, soon!

yes lance, i'm not impressed with the big 4 you mention. here in America we have a president that could play in that backfield. coach Rothschild would have been proud of them.

James wrote: "yes lance, i'm not impressed with the big 4 you mention. here in America we have a president that could play in that backfield. coach Rothschild would have been proud of them."

Not impressed by Mandela, Gandhi, MLK Jr.?? Wow you do set the bar high. Lookin' forward to that quality example...The buildup is HUGE!

yes lance...of course! (I hope I can get away with this)...you also mentioned the French revolution, was Bridget bar-dot in that movie or is that where napoleon pulled his bone apart? Bridget bardot defends animal rights and she is a great woman. (before your time). I do enjoy a French movie and a glass of mar-lot wine. the dali lama is a c.i.a. operative...nothing is as it seems, my friend. ty

James wrote: "yes lance...of course! (I hope I can get away with this)...you also mentioned the French revolution, was Bridget bar-dot in that movie or is that where napoleon pulled his bone apart? Bridget bardo..."

Hillarious mate. Is this all part of the HUGE buildup or a separate subject?

i'll get you some interesting examples of small groups that made significant changes in world history, society. the Spartans come to mind, back in 1150 ad. I have found your work very interesting...books, films, screenplays. I left some remarks at your location; also a question. Gandhi never got India out of that cast system. or made beef eaters out of them. your audience supports mlk and Mandela. and Churchill was a cigar chomping murderer...Dresden Germany is a fine example.

James wrote: "i'll get you some interesting examples of small groups that made significant changes in world history, society. the Spartans come to mind, back in 1150 ad. I have found your work very interesting..."

I do recall the Spartans (or 300 of 'em at least) made a heroic last stand; Many would disagree with your opinion of Churchill...Britain may be under Nazi rule today if it wasn't for him (and the RAF of course - and don't forget who started that war); Gandhi achieved independence for his people and left a global legacy of peace; and we already know your opinion of MLK Jr. and Mandela...

Germany wanted g britten as an economic allie. Russia started and won ww 2. Gandhi got independence for his people from who? g britten? india vs Pakistan, no peace on that boarder. I never gave my opinion on mlk or mendela. you have some people in your audience who support these icons. your above such journistic manuvers as that. you sound like a NWO guy. I think you'v achieved more then Gandhi.

James wrote: "Germany wanted g britten as an economic allie. Russia started and won ww 2. Gandhi got independence for his people from who? g britten? india vs Pakistan, no peace on that boarder. I never gave my..."

James, you're firing on all 4 cylinders...unfortunately, only 1 of them seems to be working as far as I can tell...

Gandhi lead his nation of underdogs to independence against a powerful empire and showed that people power (which is what this thread and group is about) can work. Criticizing him for not gaining peace between India and Pakistan is a massive red herring. Same goes with the cast system.

yes, you must be son of lance. are you implying that I should look for another group ? B.R.I.C.S works for India....this economic coalition. NWO...no that's not for me, and I'm not responsible for world masses of people. I pointed out India's silly cast system, and they don't eat the sacred beef...beef should be an optional source of nutrition in India. climate change, I think the tv set can sell that.

James wrote: "yes, you must be son of lance. ..."

Yes, you must be the person who posted about the "Holocaust industry" in another thread...
Care to explain what you meant by that?

Norman Finkelstein's book "the holocaust industry", will explain that comment.why would that require explaination...industry's function for profit, the holocaust commission is no exception.

James wrote: "Norman Finkelstein's book "the holocaust industry", will explain that comment.why would that require explaination...industry's function for profit, the holocaust commission is no exception."

Why don't you stop talking around in circles and say what you really think of Jewish people and the Holocaust. Clearly you have an agenda going on. I'm pretty sure I know what it is, but why don't you enlighten us all?

yes james; my comments, posts, lay before everyone. circles ? secret agenda? it doesn't matter what I think of other peoples. I think you have been watching the History channel on the tele. do you get that show in NZ? I welcome your comments James , but you seem confused. I am a friend of lance.

James wrote: "yes james; my comments, posts, lay before everyone. circles ? secret agenda? it doesn't matter what I think of other peoples. I think you have been watching the History channel on the tele. do y..."

Thank you for confirming you are too scared to say in public what you really feel about the millions of WW2 Jewish victims and their descendants who you call the "Holocaust Industry".

If I had such beliefs I wouldn't share them in public either...

Krishna wrote: "Gandhi did not support the caste system. British did. They introduced several pacts to encourage
the caste system. He used to stay with lower caste people and used to call them children of god. And..."

Krishna wrote: "Gandhi did not support the caste system. British did. They introduced several pacts to encourage the caste system. He used to stay with lower caste people and used to call them children of god. ..."

Thanks for those insights, Krishna.
Just think Gandhi united an entire nation and viewed every Indian as equal no matter their caste or religion or degree of wealth, only to get called an elitist or caste system supporter in a Goodreads group about a Century later...

right Krishna,ic i'm learning...the caste system is still in force...very much in spirt. gov. officals zig and zag...want to look democratic. divide and concur policy is being used here in united states currently for decades. and its working. political parties, gender wars, sexual preference, racism ...american controlled media promotes this. ty