Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

Anyone know anything about the conspiracy theories which say human cloning has been taking place in secret government laboratories for decades.

What evidence, if any, is there to support these theories?

And then there are the reports of world leaders having doubles who some conspiracy theorists say are their clones.
But maybe people have been watching too many Hollywood movies! Then again, how do we really know what is scientifically possible in our era when so much is withheld from the public.

Saddam Hussein had loads of doubles- I think three were declared official. (But of course it was the real one they caught!)
And it certainly seems as though the technology is there for human cloning, so why wouldn't the elite use it in their favour?

Hell! Maybe I'm a clone of myself and I don't even know it! Hm, yeah, maybe I've been watching too many Hollywood movies.

Did you ever seen the movie called Moon (starring Sam Rockwell I think?). Came out a few years ago and is about the only man who lives alone on the Moon to do a 1 year assignment. But he eventually discovers they have been sending clones of himself to the Moon for decades.

I've not seen that movie James- sounds crazy- will check it out! Ta.

Cheers Mary.

The Ethics of Human Cloning



Who's Afraid of Human Cloning?



Clones and Clones: Facts and Fantasies about Human Cloning



After Dolly: The Uses and Misuses of Human Cloning



Illegal Beings: Human Clones and the Law



The Book Of Adam: Autobiography Of The First Human Clone

Somewhere in this interview with Professor Robert Lanza (who was part of the team of scientists who created the sheep clone Dolly), says there is no real scientific reason why human cloning could not be being done right now in our society if governments would allow it (which makes me think cloning is most likely being down in the classified sector of the military where ethical laws don't usually apply...):

https://www.goodreads.com/videos/1220...

probably

Nothing serious, just some youtube videos claiming Dave Chappell has been cloned. Funny Video's, but much in the way of proof. This reminds me of Philip K Dick's Now Wait For Last Year. Thanks for the book links. More for my tbr list.

There are lots of arguments for and against human cloning. I've written a novel, entirely fictional, that looks at the rights of complete human clones. Would they have equal rights to ordinary humans?
Trish Moran

Trish wrote: "There are lots of arguments for and against human cloning. I've written a novel, entirely fictional, that looks at the rights of complete human clones. Would they have equal rights to ordinary huma..."

That's a fascinating ethical dilemma, Trish.
Please post about your book and its title.

Does Human Cloning Exist? | Human Cloning Proof https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxmb8...

James wrote: "Does Human Cloning Exist? | Human Cloning Proof https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxmb8..."

I do think it's very likely that human clones have already been created, and I don't even mean that from some 'whacked out conspiracy perspective'. It just seems logical that if they're able to make actual clones like Dolly the sheep (and many other animals we know they have cloned) - and by the way, it seems a little odd that Dolly was created ages ago now and the whole cloning thing then went pretty silent from the scientific community - then why wouldn't we be able to make human clones? The only obstacle seems to be the ethical question, and when you look at the history of creating nuclear bombs etc. (or even things like transplants, when that science know-how fist arrived), it doesn't appear that science has ever not done something because it's unethical!

Those scientists have been monkeying around again...

"First monkeys cloned in historic breakthrough - could humans be next?"

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/first-monke...

I can easily see cloning being used to generate new stem cell lines in a way which might not completely block off access to US goverment grants later.

If your goal were functional clones, you would be limited by gestation. We do not yet have artficial wombs capable of bringing a human embryo to term. And xenoplantation into a non-human surrogate is doubtful. So you would need large numbers of human surrogates. Assuming a minimal failure rate, to get just a dozen clones would take maybe twenty women. To anyone investigating, this would look like lebensborn very quickly.

Lebensborn 2.0 might've become a reality decades ago, for all we know...

Especially when we factor in classified science research...

If there are any clones in this group...Please post and let us know what's your life like!

:)

So... If scientists can now clone most any animal - as they have with sheep, monkeys etc. - why aren't they cloning endangered animals? Cloning a panda would be a good start...

(I'm not even sure if I agree with cloning in the first place, but if they're gonna do it, surely it makes sense to use the process beneficially.)

Whilst cloning has been done, scientists clearly have no idea of the complexity of genetics. The sheep that was cloned died because it had no resistance to disease. We have no idea of how 80% of our genetic code works, let alone other species.
It's quite pathetic that we believe we suddenly know everything about nature whilst we time and time again show that we know very little about how complex life is and how interrelated it is.
we're very good at basics but very poor at complexity.

Harry wrote: "Cloning a panda would be a good start"

Valid point, but I'm unsure of the actual success they've had with the sheep and the monkey. Something like a Panda would be watched by the world and monitored. Also, have there been cases of a clone giving birth? If so, and If sucessful, that would really make the work of cloning a panda or white rhino worth while.

Sure, good points Glen and A. I'm just hypothesising, and personally I'm not sure I even agree with all this cloning malarkey.

Dolly the sheep only lived six and a half years (rather than the ten to twelve years of the expected age of a sheep), but other cloned sheep (including exact copies of Dolly) are living long and healthily it would appear, some having reached up to nine years old (reported in 2016):

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sc...

Some clones have given birth naturally, including Dolly. A cow clone gave birth in 2000: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8...

Here's a list of animals known to have been cloned:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...

Right Harry. Animal cloning is actually pretty advanced now. And monkeys aren't that different to humans...

Therefore I just keep thinking...

Many technologies we in the mainstream receive (and including even mainstream scientists learn about) are often years or decades after the military and classified sector had them.

Remember, the whole purpose of classified technology is stunting its progress for the masses so that certain military divisions or intelligence agencies, get the jump on the rest of the world. Once things get declassified, or finally released by accident or otherwise, after being developed/perfected in the classified sector or in secret by private contractors, we finally get them. For example, the U.S. Department of Defense, had an early version of the internet (I think it was called the ARPANET from memory) in the 1960s, but we all assumed we were at the cutting edge of technology getting online in the 1990s... It's like that with many other technologies, especially since the classified sector - whether the military or major private contract firms like Lockheed Martin - often have much bigger budgets and little to no ethical constraints.

So...

Is it really that crazy to suggest humans have already been secretly cloned somewhere in the world? Especially since the ethical laws of many nations seems to be the main thing holding it back, as scientists/genetists have said... Because last time I checked, our military and intelligence agencies aren't known for their ethical or moral considerations...

This video is a few years old, so a bit outta date now, but it does mention how there have been a few doctors/scientists (and mainstream ones, not working in the mysterious classified sector) who have claimed to have created human clones over the years...But their claims have been dismissed...

Does Human Cloning Already Exist? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz8Hx...

Interview with doctor who says he has cloned a human child (Associated Press Video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIC02...

Here's a video that's a little more out there, and conjecture/rumour/conspiracy, with some old guy who claims to be a whistleblower from elitist secret society networks (he claims they've been cloning real living humans since 1938!):

THEY HAVE BEEN CLONING HUMANS FOR A LONG TIME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALhoO...

James wrote: "Right Harry. Animal cloning is actually pretty advanced now. And monkeys aren't that different to humans...
Therefore I just keep thinking...
Many technologies we in the mainstream receive (and i..."

Yup, I agree with all that. It's really not that crazy to think human cloning may have already been tried - even if it failed.

And that's partially why I'm not for cloning animals, as it's just a stepping stone to creating human clones - if animal clones live as normal animals and it becomes the norm to clone animals in decades to come, then it doesn't seem too fanciful that public opinion would change in, say, one or two hundred years, to allow human cloning - and then where would we be? More overpopulated? Clones of dictators being used? Clones to be used for slaves? People cloning ex-girlfriends? People cloning dead husbands? People cloning themselves? People cloning celebrities to do their dishes for them?

(The latter is an idea I once wrote a short story about, if anyone's interested: https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...)

But I agree with James that I think covert technology and science is well ahead of what we have in the mainstream/what has already been released, so it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if scientists are already trying to/cloning human beings. I mean, we already know (fact!) that Russian scientists were trying to reanimate dead animals in the 40s and we all know that ethics have never stopped scientists doing things just because they CAN be done, whether or not they SHOULD be done, as with nuclear bombs for instance.

Hell, maybe I'm a clone and don't even know it!

James wrote: "Interview with doctor who says he has cloned a human child (Associated Press Video)."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIC02...

Seeing as that vid is in Italian, I thought it was worth copying and pasting the information that's written below the vid. (Why would that scientist lie about such a thing? Seems perfectly reasonable to me that he's at least trying to clone humans):

"Italian fertility specialist Severino Antinori said on Tuesday he expects the first ever cloned human being to be born in January next year. Antinori told a news conference in Rome that a consortium of doctors had cloned a human being and that a 2.5-2.7 kilo embryo was currently in a womb. Severino announced last year he would be the first scientist to clone a human being. Antinori held the news conference following the appearance of an article in an Italian daily newspaper on British scientist Ian Wilmut. Ian Wilmut, the scientist who cloned Dolly the sheep, the world's first cloned animal, had previously said he was opposed to the cloning of human beings. However, Wilmut was reported on Tuesday to have asked British authorities for authorisation to do 'parthenogenesis' - a process which Severino Antinori claims is, in fact, human cloning. Parthenogenesis is for therapeutical use only."

First half of video is in English (but it almost sounds like it's Italian as his accent is so heavy!), but thanks.

10000% the deep state government are cloning and have been for years! The MK Ultra program facilitated it as the program expanded in the 80's. I cant imagine what is taking place in all of the underground laboratories in most of the desert SW of America, in Russia, Germany and beyond. And to take this topic a step futher, Top secret records show that our species have worked with Alien counterparts to create galactic super-humans since the 70's.

Pamela wrote: "10000% the deep state government are cloning and have been for years! The MK Ultra program facilitated it as the program expanded in the 80's. I cant imagine what is taking place in all of the unde..."

Not saying you are wrong (you could well be right about EVERYTHING you say), but I do feel it's important to differentiate facts from theories (especially for say young people or newbies who may be reading certain things).

So...MK-Ultra officially was shut down in the 1970s. The expansion or offshoot mind control programs you talk about (which I personally believe in) are not proven. Nor has any cloning ever been mentioned in any declassified documents on mind control programs like MK-Ultra.

And which top secret records are you referring to here: "Top secret records show that our species have worked with Alien counterparts to create galactic super-humans since the 70's"?

Apart from those points, I agree with you that anything could be going on in all the world's massive underground facilities in which medical laboratories probably exist...

Getting back to the mainstream scientists who have claimed to have already done human cloning, here's an article almost a decade old that refers to what I'm talking about...

Latest human cloning claims leave sour taste https://www.newscientist.com/article/...

Maybe I'm missing something, but I find it odd that these scientists would supposedly lie or exaggerate and risk their careers.

Imagine if we have real human clones living on the planet right now...

And in the future, when it does happen for sure, or else happen in an acknowledged/official way rather than secretive, what sort of rights will clones have, I wonder???

James wrote: "Getting back to the mainstream scientists who have claimed to have already done human cloning, here's an article almost a decade old that refers to what I'm talking about...

Latest human cloning c..."

Very interesting article - especially as it comes from New Scientist.

"Maybe I'm missing something, but I find it odd that these scientists would supposedly lie or exaggerate and risk their careers."

Nope James, you're not missing anything at all!

I suspect they've been cloning people since or before the Reagan days. When Bush made it illegal to clone, the scientific community moved off shore to continue their research. And I suspect they're still there putting pieces together. My suspicion is China is profiting by this. They don't have our value system to give it any moral outlook. It's too bad. If we were able to continue, the western world would have set the values.

Ok, let’s say humans have been cloned
Now, like me, you believe in the person having a soul and also that we have been reincarnated many times before, then since a cloned human being will have presumably the same Karma and the same soul enlivening it, it will be fascinating to find out by many questions and tests whether cloning results in an identical personality as well as identical karma

I' m a clone. At the time we were classified as natural Identical twins--1937.

I don't think clones would have the same identical personalities. My brother and I don't. I'm passive, and he is active. I'm reclusive, and he's gregarious. He has to be with people and belong to groups. I would be happy if they put me into a tower and threw away the key, as long as I have my computer and a TV. Even though we are identical (you can't tell us apart) we have different personalities. If the soul exist as an entity, it can not be replicated. It may be similar, but not the same. Similar to facial makeups; there are just so many configurations. I once new a Art Director who selected three women for a fashion ad, and all the women looked similar. He like a specific type of beauty, even though one was White, the other was Black, and third was Asian.

My belief, a body (it doesn't matter what kind, animal, vegetable, xyz, etc.) is a vehicle for a soul. If reincarnation does exists, there are tons of souls waiting for a body, any kind. Life is important for learning. We can not advance as an entity unless we have learned from our pasts. These experiences-decisions will follow us into eternity. And as we know, eternity never ends.

GR wrote: "I don't think clones would have the same identical personalities. ..."

Neither do I.
In fact, I think a clone could have a personality that's even a complete opposite in every way.

James, the only thing that I've noticed that is similar to my brother, is the same things happen to us. When I listen to my brother about what he's done, it's like seeing the future. He lives in Florida, I live in Germany. So, when he tells me things, I know what's to come.

Yes, GR, a lot of twins mention that.

However, do you really think twins are worthy of a mention in a cloning discussion? Or Are twins actually a type of natural cloning?? If so, I know loads of twins who are nothing like each other personality wise and some who hate each other!

Dogs not humans...But still...

Barbra Streisand Cloned Her Favorite Dog http://variety.com/video/barbra-strei...

People...people who clone their puppies...are the luckiest people in the world.

So, what happened? Did she notice any difference? Or was it the same old cur?

Barbs said the clones have totally different personalities!

Of course. 2 different souls.

North Korean scientists attempting to CLONE humans for Kim’s super army https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/worl...
BONKERS North Korean scientists are attempting to clone human beings, the Daily Star Sunday can reveal.

Pet cloning is bringing human cloning a little bit closer https://www.technologyreview.com/s/61...

The ban on human cloning is stupid – Brexit is UK’s chance to get rid of it http://theconversation.com/the-ban-on...

Dear God man, do you really want Boris Johnson to have the opportunity to clone himself!

Haha, now that's a scary thought...

Nigerian President Denies Report He Died And Was Replaced By A Clone https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-1...

Kinda only loosely related...or is it?

China clones gene-edited monkeys http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019...

Mass Human Cloning May Soon Be Upon Us -- Discovery Institute https://evolutionnews.org/2018/09/mas...

Human cloning has been accomplished, but the field remains generally stalled because of a shortage of human eggs — one needed per cloning attempt — and eggs for use in research are hard to come by.

That impediment may soon be overcome. Scientists have changed human blood cells into immature egg cells. The next steps should go even farther, eventually allowing for the eventual mass lab-creation of eggs capable of being fertilized or used in cloning.

https://evolutionnews.org/2018/09/mas...