Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

What's the deal with GMO's? Why are they banned in Europe and not in the USA? If there is nothing wrong with them then why is the government NOT requiring that food be labeled as containing GMOed items? Why is Monsanto so adamant that labeling NOT be required or permitted. Who are these people anyway. It should be my decision as to what I put in my body! Any thoughts?

Yep, the whole GM thing is scary- just like tales of chemtrails or tap water poisoning us- but, yeah, we should be able to know the truth about what GM products are in what foods, and I've read stuff before about even with labels, there can still sometimes be a GM product 'through a loop hole'.

It's a worrying state of affairs when we don't know if our meat is cow or horse, and we're digesting more and more GM products, and there never seems to be any straight answers as to who to trust with these kinds of subjects.

Have you seen this video? It is a MUST see.The cereal Wheaties undoubtedly contains metal fragments, so much so that a magnet can attract them: http://youtu.be/7MLS3dA72Tg

Food should just be food!
Why did "they" have to go mess with nature?
If they could restructure the air and make a buck out of it, they would!

Harry, watched the video about Wheaties. I guess that means that they are fortified with iron! LOL My wife and I have stopped eating anything processed and only eat organic as much as possible. We also don't do the Flu shot thing. I think something is behind this Flu shot craze. Have you seen the "super Flu shot" for seniors? Is that a way to chip people?

Yes, I have to say I was 'attracted' to that video... ah, Jeez, I'm doing bad puns now...

That video is mad, ain't it? Effing magnetic food! Yep, growing your own is definitely the way forward, and yet they're making it more and more difficult to do that.

Vaccinations: Bad. You're absolutely right Dbart. Hm, I'm wondering about Ebola Vaccines...

What the hell happened to the world?

I saw an interesting program on TV this morning. They were talking about fortified breakfast cereal. The man ground up some of the flakes and mixed it with some liquid in a breaker and dropped in a magnetic stirrer. After a few moments he removed the stirrer and gently rinsed it off. Guess what was all over it? Iron fillings! Apparently they are supposed to be in the cereal. He appeared to be quite proud of that fact. I wonder what other crap has and is being added to food? On second thought, I don't think I want to know!

Dbart wrote: "Harry, watched the video about Wheaties. I guess that means that they are fortified with iron! LOL My wife and I have stopped eating anything processed and only eat organic as much as possible. We ..."

I don't believe in flu shots either. I had to take them in the past because of where I work but refuse to any longer. In my opinion, they're created by pharmaceutical firms who are only interested in the bottom line.

Dbart,

That's mad that you should see that programme this morning! And I'm quite certain that when that Wheaties vid came out, the company were certainly not admitting the filings were in there- let alone promoting the fact! It's all about how you sell the idea, y'know.

Harry wrote: "Yep, the whole GM thing is scary- just like tales of chemtrails or tap water poisoning us- but, yeah, we should be able to know the truth about what GM products are in what foods, and I've read stu..."

Yep those chemtrails tales are scary, too. I suspect the Military Industrial Complex may have something to answer for on that particular issue...

Take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeTaej...

Awareness of chemtrails is very slow to gain traction, but this evidence is difficult to deny. What can be done to stop it? I don't know. But knowing about and and acknowledging a problem or threat would seem to be a good first step.

Meantime, returning to the whole GM issue... I now look sideways at my Wheaties!

Yeah, I recently joined the chemtrail campaign to expose it all, and wrote to my M.P who passed it on to parliament, and got a very boring letter of denial back. What can you do- other than educate people about such things? (Whatever the reason of chemtrails is- there's a lot of evidence for purposely polluting our atmosphere with metal, for one.)

http://www.chemtrailsprojectuk.com/

I think chemtrails are related to HAARP and weather modification.

HAARP is a worry, that's for sure. There are UN documents that even record concerns by UN members about what the hell HAARP is doing to the Earth's atomsphere.

Well, it's now not just GM we have to worry about. The International Agency for Research on Cancer have said it seems very likely that Roundup, the world's most widely used pesticide, can cause cancer.

Of course WHO are saying it's nonsense.

Who do you believe? And why is it scientists can never agree over such things?

More:
http://rt.com/news/242801-glyphosate-...

Many Scientists are compromised remember as they are funded by the private sector and are not independent
So maybe that explains why they often cannot agree on anything

Also, was Roundup created by or in association with Monsanto do you know?

Oops. I got it the wrong way round. The World Health Organisation came to the conclusions, and Monsanto are the ones doing the disagreeing.

Yes, it's a Monsanto product.

Monsanto disagreeing in this instance means about as much as BP or Shell Oil disagreeing with environmentalists.

I heard there's a Russian island near Arctic Circle where they have planted crops of all the world's original seeds now that Monsanto crops have replaced originals worldwide.
They are doing this in case something goes wrong with the GM versions and the world's food supplies go bad...

We can fly to Mars, have plastic surgery and invent the iPad, but we can't even grow food.

Evolution? Yeah right.

One day the world will be a shopping mall and its car park.

Also, don't forget the Svalbard seed bank in Norway.

Actually Stephen, Svalbard is the island with the seed bank I was thinking of. I thought Svalbard is a Russian territory not Norwegian but maybe my memory deceives me

This book by Jason Louv might be worth a read on the GMO subject:
Monsanto vs. the World: The Monsanto Protection Act, GMOs and Our Genetically Modified Future.

Here's the synopsis:

Monsanto—one of the largest agriculture and biotech companies in the world—creates genetically engineered seeds and food, or GMOs. They've also brought the world toxic chemicals like DDT, PCBs and even Agent Orange.

But who is Monsanto really—and why do many see them as one of the most evil companies in the world? Are GMOs and genetically engineered food the solution to world hunger, or a shockingly dangerous threat to our health? And does Monsanto really, as some suggest, secretly control much of the United States' agriculture and food departments? What are they hiding from the public?

This meticulously researched, short book strips away the myths and reveals the shocking reality—and provides you with the information you need to keep you and your family healthy.

All of these questions rocketed to the forefront of the American dialogue when Barack Obama signed into law the Farmer Assurance Provision, or "Monsanto Protection Act"—which critics claimed would give Monsanto immunity from the federal government. "Monsanto vs. the World" puts to rest the myths and shows the shocking reality, delving into the science of GMOs, the political machinations of Monsanto in Washington and around the world, and showing what you can do to keep GMOs off your plate.

In Monsanto vs. the World, which cites nearly one hundred scholarly journals, books, studies, articles and even Monsanto's own documents, you'll discover the details of:

• Monsanto's long history of creating—and covering up the effects of—toxic chemicals and weapons
• Monsanto's powerful lobby that has tendrils in the FDA, the USDA, the EPA—and even the White House
• What GMOs and genetically engineered organisms are—and how they may be hazardous to your health
• How Monsanto is using GMOs to suppress small farmers and invade the world
• How to keep GMOs off your plate and make sure you're eating fresh and healthy food

For less than the price of a lunch, get the crucially important information that will change how you see your food forever—and that will keep you and your family eating healthy instead of GMO.

We have been "genetically modifying" plants and animals for thousands of years through selective breeding.

When science takes the randomness out of that process and make it a much shorter route, I think it is fine.

It's when the bio-tech goes too far in the name of patentability and profit (like Monsanto), and with seemingly little regard for other consequences that we run into problems.

This writer pretty much sums up my take on things. http://www.slate.com/articles/life/fo...

Venezuela has kicked out Monsanto and banned genetically modified food:
http://newint.org/blog/2016/01/12/ven...

James Morcan wrote: "Venezuela has kicked out Monsanto and banned genetically modified food:
http://newint.org/blog/2016/01/12/ven..."

Thanks, James. Excellent article. Most excellent of Venezuela to act to protect indigenous knowledge.How slack that New Zealand and other countries are so spineless, such pliant roll-overs for the GMO multi-nationals. We should be ashamed, really, deeply appalled at how we've given away so much sovereignty over our food supply without any comparable resistance at all. There is leadership and vision in Venezuela.

Robert, great article. It pretty much described how I feel about gmo.

here's a quick video on how much of our food really falls under gmo:
https://youtu.be/1ecT2CaL7NA

Yeah, I agree Paul - you'd expect New Zealand to lead the way on this issue.

Kelly Slater talks about Monsanto's devious activities in Hawaii: https://www.goodreads.com/videos/9801...

James Morcan wrote: "Food should just be food!
Why did "they" have to go mess with nature?
If they could restructure the air and make a buck out of it, they would!"

You don't watch people shopping for produce in the grocery store. They'll dig through the entire pile of tomatoes looking for one that is perfectly round, or they'll reject an entire bunch of bananas because one is just a slight bit more yellow than they prefer. GMOs come about in part (certainly not the only reason for them) because consumers want nature to be perfect. A red apple shouldn't have a slight green spot or slight brown spot. Melons have to "feel" a certain way.

A large driver in the GMO development is producing animals with more meat or more cops on less land with less water, etc., but the consumers and their expectations have driven the development as well.

Interesting observation J.J

EXPLOSIVE VIDEO: What Is Monsanto? https://www.goodreads.com/videos/1118...

I'm not sure what people think GMO is...all it means is that the food is not directly from the wild.....my guess is that, even countries that 'ban' Genetically Modified Organisms (food) are selling exactly that....Genetically modified foods....If people are eating organic food to 'keep them safe from harm' caused by GMO, they probably should just not eat anything from any grocery store or even farms.....

That being said, there are a lot of other ingredients added to our foods that I'd worry more about than GMO.

Neil deGrasse Tyson explains this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNtCV...

So you like Monsanto, Lisa?

James wrote: "So you like Monsanto, Lisa?"

All i know about Monsanto is in that video, so I can't comment on them as a corporation nor their agenda....I'm referring to GMO, in general, and what it really entails.

Could Monsanto be taking GMO to new heights? Quite possibly, but then you're steering slightly away from what GMO foods really are and focusing on how Monsanto is taking advantge of the ability to do this in a laboratory setting.

The video says to take down Monsanto, buy organic...that's not as easy for everyone....surely there are food labels or products that are not governed by Monsanto?

I dont really know much about this subject either, but what I've heard about Monsanto is worrying.

I spoke to a lot of farmers and agricultural specialists here in Australia recently because of a project I'm working on, and many of them said Monsanto are a major concern for them. None of them were conspiracy theorists as far as I can tell.

So in what ways to do you think Monsanto is a separate subject to GMOs?

James wrote: "I dont really know much about this subject either, but what I've heard about Monsanto is worrying.

I spoke to a lot of farmers and agricultural specialists here in Australia recently because of a..."

Because GMO existed loooooong before Monsanto...and it exists alongside and separate from Monsanto as well.... and will continue to exist after Monsanto has been 'destroyed'

Lisa wrote: "Because GMO existed loooooong before Monsanto...and it exists alongside and separate from Monsanto as well.... and will continue to exist after Monsanto has been 'destroyed' ..."

Cola existed before Coca-Cola...
So by your logic we shouldn't discuss Coca-Cola when discussing cola? :)

Lisa wrote: "I'm not sure what people think GMO is...all it means is that the food is not directly from the wild.....my guess is that, even countries that 'ban' Genetically Modified Organisms (food) are selling..."

I'm not sure that's quite right Lisa. There's a huge amount of discussion about possible dangers of GM food, and GM doesn't simply mean 'food not directly from the wild', otherwsie foods with emulsifiers, E numbers, flavourings etc. would be counted as GM, which they're not. GM is specifically about food being genetically modified. Although you're right to worry about those other things that have been added to our food as well.

"If people are eating organic food to 'keep them safe from harm' caused by GMO, they probably should just not eat anything from any grocery store or even farms....." - I'm afraid I don't get that statement. Organic food is organic and therefore does keep people safe from harm, so if it's labelled Organic at a grocery store or wherever, or if it's produced as organic on a farm, then it's as good and healthy as you can possibly get.

The dangers of GM:

https://www.soilassociation.org/our-c...

http://responsibletechnology.org/10-r...

http://nutritionstudies.org/gmo-dange...

Lisa wrote: "Because GMO existed loooooong before Monsanto...and it exists alongside and separate from Monsanto as well.... and will continue to exist after Monsanto has been 'destroyed' ."

Monsanto was one of four groups to introduce genes into plants (1983), and was among the first to conduct field trials of genetically modified crops, (1987).

Calgene Inc. were the first to sell GM foods in 1994. Monsanto bought Calgene out in 1996.

Lisa, check out this 4 minute video which covers the topic (and the difference between US and Europe GMO food labels) quite well in the form of a short debate:

Bill Maher Talks Monsanto, Genetically Modified Food (GMOs) - HD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csSw3...

p.s. Basically picture Harry and I as Bill Maher and Mark Ruffalo in this debate and you as the guy on the end of the table blissfully drinking his GMO coffee!

This video is the point I'm trying to make....did you and Harry watch the video I linked? I'll link it here again just in case:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNtCV...

All I'm trying to explain is that GMO is an ancient concept.....now have companies...countries spun this concept out of control? that could very well be and I actually agree that America has some of the worst "foods"!

I really don't think the actual meaning of what GMO is is a bad thing, but I think, just as anything else, it can be manipulated to become bad.

Just like technology....lots of bad stuff created with technology....even entire companies only focus on it...weaponry, for instance. Does this make technology bad? Do these inventions define what technology is?

The same goes for GMO...it's not a bad thing in itself, but companies, such as Monsanto can utilize the technology and create rancid products. And I wish America had as strict food regulations as Eurpoe does...here, I swear that I've eaten plastic or rubber instead of food!

So, GMO....which has been around since domestication of animals, but has been manipulated in bad ways for the sake of money greeding bastards.

So whether you want to argue the case for what GMO truly is or what some companies have done to manipulate this technology to serve their own purpose, are two very different things and two very different arguments.

Lisa wrote: "This video is the point I'm trying to make....did you and Harry watch the video I linked? I'll link it here again just in case:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNtCV...

All I'm trying to expla..."


Lisa,

I just watched that video you linked. That guy simply doesn't understand what GMO is. Like he says, we have been creating 'artificial selection' of foods and modifying them for thousands of years, but this is not the same thing as GMO foods which have had their DNA specifically modified.

Here's GMO on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic...

By all means, we can debate artificial selection and artificial substances added to foods and all that malarkey, but it's a completely separate thing to GMO. As for the dangers of GMO, see the links I posted in message 36.

How do GMOs relate to intellectual property, Ben?

GMO is a serious global problem. It needs to be a major concern at every conference table; unfortunately the world runs with a 'business as usual' attitude and it never will be cause for war. It is war, though. Corporations vs citizens and country vs country. We are invading other nations via their crops.

Check this out:
http://research.lfb.org/research/html...

Feliks wrote: "GMO is a serious global problem. It needs to be a major concern at every conference table; unfortunately the world runs with a 'business as usual' attitude and it never will be cause for war. It is..."

Is Monsanto the main culprit? Or is it our governments for not protecting our nations' crops?

And what happens if something goes wrong with all these GMO crops? Can we revert back to original nature? Or is it a case with GMOs where once it has begun you can never go back?

Correct on all counts. Monsanto and Con-Agra. The biggest culprits. Push a cart down an aisle of any major supermarket, 90% of all the food you see will ultimately be traced back to them.

You've seen that diagram on how all American corporations have merged into just twelve.

And the diagram showing how all American banks have become merged into just six.

And the diagram showing how all American media companies have become just six.

GMO means never going back. Any proponents of this technology ought to be shot or hung as war criminals.

Governments are not the originators of the technology but they are the accomplices to this heinous evil; because they allow the food conglomerate lobbyists to purchase the legislation and induce the diplomats and the legislators to craft the regulations which allows unscrupulous, US-favoring trade agreements to dominate these other nations. Our so-called 'conscientious' government abandons its principles and turns its ass up like a twenty buck street whore, (and does so in a New York minute) whenever Con-Agra waves some greenbacks in the air. It's revolting and disgusting.

Feliks wrote: "GMO means never going back. Any proponents of this technology ought to be shot or hung as war criminals. ..."

Wow, and it feels like we The People never were really consulted...And now it sounds like it's too late!

The heart of the problem is that this country is much more of a 'business' than it is a 'nation'. It was made by businessmen for businessmen. 'The business of America is business'. and all that.

To reverse the damage, you'd have to get the Supreme Court to overturn that infamous decision they made in the 1920s or 1930s which essentially warped democracy from thence on: namely that a corporation has 'rights' just as a citizen does. It was some decision related to Pullman railroads or something like that.

p.s. There oughta be a thread in this group dedicated to 1974's 'Network'.

Feliks wrote: "There oughta be a thread in this group dedicated to 1974's 'Network'. ..."

Go for it. Believe it or not, I've never watched that movie but keep hearing good things about it and how it's even more relevant today than when it was released.

Never watched that movie...?!



I hate to ask: how about, 'Three Days of the Condor'?

Or 'Rollerball'?

Son, we got to talk.

Never watched that movie...?!

Yeah, Three Days of the Condor and Rollerball (the 1970s version not the remake).

P.S. What did you think of The Swimmer starring Burt Lancaster?

'Swimmer' is one of my fave flicks. One of the top five performances Lancaster ever gave and he had a long and illustrious career.

Story by John Cheever. You just can't beat it.

How about...Don Siegel's 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers'?
Or, 'The Forbin Project'?

'Parallax View'?

'Power Play'?