Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

Excerpt from The Orphan Conspiracies: 29 Conspiracy Theories from The Orphan Trilogy:


One small confirmation of the dangers of secretive and elitist organizations comes from within police forces in the US and UK, and relates to Freemasonry. Senior American and British police chiefs have gone on the record recommending that police officers should not be permitted to join any Masonic lodge. The police chiefs concerned invariably cited fears that Freemason police officers would have conflicts of interest. That’s to say officers may at times put the interests of Freemasonry ahead of their police work.

Now what if that same concern is valid when it comes to Freemasons within politics, the justice system or the Military Industrial Complex?

Lance Morcan wrote: "One small confirmation of the dangers of secretive and elitist organizations comes from within police forces in the US and UK, and relates to Freemasonry. Senior American and British police chiefs ..."

This topic is also addressed in this thread Undergrounders > https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Much fear mongering about Freemasons and the Rosicrucians too. I think it's a shame as they are keepers of ancient knowledge and not the Illuminati as is often said. Also they don't worship Lucifer (who is not Satan), but see Lucifer/Venus's role in our evolution into animal form (mineral, plant, animal--tinman, scarecrow, cowardly lion, the first needs a heart to feel, the second a brain to think, the third courage or will). The Lucifer snake is the backbone and our dna.

Re conflict of interests the same argument could be made about religion, especially fundamental or militant religion as is common in the US. Why is it not a conflict of interest to hold an office of power and be a fanatical Christian?

Little wrote: "Why is it not a conflict of interest to hold an office of power and be a fanatical Christian? ..."

In terms of Christianity, I'd argue the difference is it's not a secret society. One could go to a church service that a fanatical Christian politician attends, or one could research the denomination they belong to as Christianity or other religions are open to the public.

We just don't know with Freemasons. You could be right in what you imply or you could be wrong.
Also, I've known masons and I'm sure most people have, and they seem pretty harmless...However the rumor is only the very highest initiates (I think 33rd and above) know the entire story about Masonry. So the average Mason probably wouldn't have an inkling of have their secret society is used (or not used) to orchestrate events on the world's stage.

One thing we can know for sure is most of the world's elite politicians, businessmen, military figures, bankers and media moguls are Freemasons and always have been. Whether that means anything or not, is open to interpretation.

Agreed about the secret society bit. Personally I think the Freemasons are some of the few to continue the knowledge of the pre Christian mystery schools. Knowledge that was lost/purged from Christianity early in its history.

The Lucifer/Satan misinterpretation is rife in Christian thinking. But Lucifer is the morning star, and his appearance/influence a necessary trial in the evolution of the human race. Satan is Saturn or Cronus, Father Time, or he who ate his own young. He is also karma, and death, necessary 'evils'.

(Of course all my thoughts on this and all else are always flowing and altering, and I reserve the right to change my mind, sometimes radically, if and when the need arises. :))

Agreed on those points.
I think that when it comes to elected officials, they should not be allowed to be a member of any secret societies as you "cannot serve two masters".

True.

I'd also like to see that concept extended to religions as well as secret societies. Extremely religious individuals should not be given non secular positions of power. This would be hard to enforce in the US as it seems to be the dominant thinking, but I can't see how unbiased decisions can be made by such individuals. The same applies in many Islamic countries. Those religions may be open to public view, but there are hidden agendas at work too. It is a very interesting question and subject.

Little wrote: "True.

I'd also like to see that concept extended to religions as well as secret societies. Extremely religious individuals should not be given non secular positions of power. This would be hard to..."

Well said Little. I agree totally with all your posts. A breath of fresh air here and a good explanation of little known history.

Thank you Laureen. :)

The Temple and the Lodge:

Dispelling myth and reevaluating European and American history, The Temple and the Lodge is the most illuminating investigation yet published into the evolution of Freemasonry. Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh recount the events that led to the strange and sudden disappearance of the Knights Templar in the fourteenth century and their reappearance in the court of excommunicate Scottish king Robert the Bruce. Theorizing, and documenting, the survival of Templar traditions through the birth of the Masonic lodge, the authors chart the history of Freemasonry through its medieval roots and into the modern era. They demonstrate the order's contribution to the fostering of tolerance, progressive values, and cohesion in English society, which helped to preempt a French-style revolution in England. In addition, they show how Freemasonry contributed to the formation of the United States as an embodiment of the ideal "Masonic Republic."

Global FreeMasonry



The Secrets of Freemasonry



On the Square - Decoding Freemasonry



Secrets of Freemasonry

There has been a 'battle for belief' between the catholic Church and Esoteric forms of faith for nearly 2000 years.

Controversially, it could also be argued that the Masonic symbol ‘G’ also represents the secret ‘gnosis’ of the brotherhood. These beliefs were not only secret, they were heretical against the Catholic Church and they were revolutionary in that they placed the individual above any manmade structure of authority – either Church or State. It is this premise of personal freedom and personal responsibility that is the foundation for the modern Capitalistic democracies of the Western World.

Tony wrote: "There has been a 'battle for belief' between the catholic Church and Esoteric forms of faith for nearly 2000 years.

Controversially, it could also be argued that the Masonic symbol ‘G’ also repres..."

How long have you been a Mason, Tony? :)

very funny James, I was raised in the Roman Catholic faith but now I realise there has been a deeper division between beliefs than what I first thought. Unfortunately the church has been on the wrong side of history too many times. Who I thought was the ‘bad guy’ turns out to be something completely different.

Tony wrote: "very funny James, I was raised in the Roman Catholic faith but now I realise there has been a deeper division between beliefs than what I first thought. Unfortunately the church has been on the wro..."

I worked with a guy who said said he was open minded about organized religions until the moment he went to the Vatican on his travels. Standing within the Vatican and looking at the architecture and overall design, he said he immediately realized "this is all about money and power!"

Interesting article about the Masonic roots of Mormonism...

Utah Freemasons will install new officers with centuries-old rituals http://www.deseretnews.com/article/86...

I think these sects are best defined by 'what they are not'. They are not the Catholic Church. They search for legitimacy through tradition and ritual. However it is a big ask to compete with an organisation that can turn wine into blood and bread into flesh.

I really do not have much to add but that in my religious upbringing Lucifer and Satan are the same guy, just different names because of his fall from Heaven. So if the Freemasons are using the name Lucifer in any of their work they are part of the whole Lucifer/Satan takeover.


Of course, that being said, I realize we all have different upbringings so you may or may not agree. But just my two cents.

James, rituals are practiced in your own life no doubt. Whether you have a shower every morning, eat breakfast before or after shower, read the paper/news etc. Footballers have ritual at the start of every game. There is nothing wrong with ritual. I am not afraid of Freemadon ritual s just because they are secret. If they are practiced for the good of mankind, then all the better. I am a woman and not a Freemadon BTW nor are any of my family.

I don't believe in criticizing that which you don't understand.

I think the majority of Masonic lodges, at least in the states, are little more than drinking clubs that do a bit of charity work on the side. That wasn't always the case and probably doesn't apply everywhere.

There's very little that's really secret about Freemasonry other than membership rolls, passwords, and handshakes. You can read everything about the rituals and symbolism. I have read a bit and I would lump the rituals and symbols in with most esoteric thought. There's nothing particularly shocking in any of it.

The Freemasons originated long ago with the masons (builders) of Europe. It was more like a club for working men who had similar beliefs. I love esoteric thought . Freedom of thought. The ritual element is generally to promote loyalty and enables clear vision and a closeness with nature. Absolutely nothing sinister.

I agree with some of what you say - I don't tend to believe in the grand Masonic conspiracy idea. I have known quite a few Masons who all were good, honest, hard-working people, as far as I could ascertain. Also agree that some of these rituals are ancient and it's really about esoteric thought. Plus, I look on Freemasonry as essentially "underground knowledge" and it's what an individual does with that sort of knowledge that determines whether they are good or bad...that's why some Masons do great charitable acts and others are evil. More about the individuals involved than it is about Freemasonry.

However, and this is a big BUT in my books, it's the conflict of interest factor with secret societies that can be a major problemo. It's undeniable that a large percentage of those in positions of power throughout the Western world are Masons and always have been. That's not necessarily evidence of the grand conspiracy idea, but when they are in public office they are accountable to us the common people. We have EVERY right as voters to demand to know all their affiliations and find out if they are putting us first or if their allegiance is for the elite.

So in the end I have to side with those senior American and British police chiefs who have gone on the record recommending that police officers should not be permitted to join any Masonic lodge. As mentioned, those police chiefs concerned invariably cited fears that Freemason police officers would have conflicts of interest. That’s to say officers may at times put the interests of Freemasonry ahead of their police work...

Food for thought from the UK perspective alone...

How secret group Freemasons has kept grip on Britain for 200 years http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/...

"The names of royalty, statesmen, judges, military top brass, bishops and police have been found in a secret archive. The extent to which Freemasons wielded power over the British Empire may lead to a re-examination of two centuries of our history."

There appears to be a definite occult connection between the teachings of secret societies such as the Freemasons and the Rosicrucians. Even the father of rational thought, René Descartes, embraced the ancient esoteric concept that the pineal gland was the foundation of human consciousness and possibly a gateway to altered states of being. In recent years this idea has gained increased traction because of renewed interest in the drug Dimethyltryptamine (DMT). DMT is a powerful psychedelic compound that can be found within many plants and mammals, including humans. It can also be used as a drug to induce spiritual and alternate-worldly experiences. Some scientists speculate that the source of DMT within humans is the pineal gland which is located near the centre of the brain. Interestingly, the pineal gland looks remarkably like the all seeing eye of Masonic and Egyptian mythology.
The craft of Freemasonry has continued to be been as secretive and exclusive to the extent that outsiders may interpret their motivations as primarily to benefit fellow members of the brotherhood at the expense of the greater good. But these organisations do not appear to have any destructive intent. In fact, they originated out of a commitment to the enlightenment of humanity.
The suppression by the Catholic Church of all forms of Gnostic teachings and the fact that there never was any uniform Gnostic faith make this alternative religious tradition susceptible to reinterpretation and manipulation by outside sources, which may wish to legitimise their own beliefs by linking them with ancient esoteric mystery religions. The Freemasons have appropriated aspects of ancient Egyptian, Greek and even Hebrew beliefs and practices into their contemporary rituals. Freemasonry also embraced the personal search for gnosis and enlightenment as a reaction against the structural control of state monarchies and Church dogma. Their spirit of personal freedom was bequeathed to the new American republic.
The general Gnostic idea that the earth was created by a flawed and possibly evil deity has, however, allowed the darker aspects of human nature to appropriate these ancient teachings for other purposes. It is only one step further to assume that this world is controlled by Satan and that this evil deity’s gift to humanity was material desire. This rejection of the good takes the alternative personal search for gnosis in an entirely different direction. Instead of rejecting the material world, the followers of Satan openly choose to embrace its horror, as well as its pleasures. By embracing a material and possibly evil path, the higher ideas of Christian surrender, Hebrew covenant and Gnostic illumination are abandoned. For these people, hell on earth is their paradise and Satan is the supreme ruler.
It is this confused and misappropriated mess of beliefs that have created many of the satanic cults and conspiracies that abound in postmodern Western society. Symbols such as the pentagram and the obelisk, which the Freemasons used to legitimise themselves, have been reimagined to fit various conspiracies ranging from pro- or anti-Semitic propaganda to the grand conspiracy relating to the creation of a new world order under the rule of a cabal of chosen individuals.

James wrote: "Food for thought from the UK perspective alone...

How secret group Freemasons has kept grip on Britain for 200 years http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/...

..."James, I think this is where the real ''battle for belief" has been played out. Gnosticism versus the structure of the church.

I think you also bring up many important points, Tony.

There are a lot of nuances regarding Freemasonry and other secret societies - nobody should make quick assessments without deeper research.

And as you also point out, there are dangers with individual enlightenment paths - just as many potentially as there are with organized religions.

The problem with organized religion is that it is patronizing. The search for honesty is what gnosticism is all about. These secret societies were only hidden because the Church would have us believe some evil intent or paganism existed within.

The Church was afraid that Secret Societies would explain the very essence of what made the religious institutions autonomous. Power comes in many forms. Religion is one form of that. Politics another. It is up to people to expose corruption as the perpetrators will never hand over that information. There will always be good and evil in all walks of life. It is a part of the duality of nature. It seems imposibile to separate the two.

Laureen wrote: "Power comes in many forms. Religion is one form of that. Politics another. ..."

Agreed, and keep in mind secret societies such as Freemasonry have been very entwined with political structures over the last few centuries. Even a cursory study of US politics reveals that. Likewise with the UK.

I think the duality you refer to, which is correct in my view, means that whichever way humanity goes (whether organized religions, secret societies, Eastern mystical schools, individualism, New Age beliefs, politics etc, etc) it always seems to lead to corruption and the strong dominating the weak/vulnerable.

Seems like perhaps we as a civilization all need to know about human nature and our "dark side" before we can ever transcend these various corruptions.

Yes James, but I feel a little more positive than you do. Good must overcome evil. There can be no dark whilst there is light etc. the great majority of human kind want to do right and that creates a powerful force. The reason people join esoteric societies is to gain inner knowledge and at the grass roots this is a powerful way of gaining knowledge "gnosis".

Wherever we have hierarchies, there will be deviants to the greater cause but there is also good people who don't get sucked in by selfish reasoning. I still believe in democracy as the most effective form of Government but that does not mean it is free from corruption. Likewise, belief systems.

Laureen wrote: "YYes James, but I feel a little more positive than you do. Good must overcome evil. There can be no dark whilst there is light etc. the great majority of human kind want to do right and that creates a powerful force. The reason people join esoteric societies is to gain inner knowledge and at the grass roots this is a powerful way of gaining knowledge "gnosis"...."

I'm totally positive for humanity's future.
Couldn't be more positive - and yes of course democracy is worth fighting for.
But paradoxically, I'm optimistic primarily because so many people are becoming aware of the corruption and destruction in the world and are sick and tired of it. They want change, so that's the reason for hope, in my view.

I believe what Carl Jung said: "One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

Exactly!

"How Freemasonry evolved into such a staggeringly influential force over the centuries is not always clear. Some even connect early Masons to the infamous Knights Templar." http://jwcdaily.com/countrymag/2017/0...

Lance , I would contend that the original purpose of most secret societies is to stand in opposition to the dogmatic power of the Roman Catholic Church.
In order to stand in opposition to a nearly two thousand-
year-old institution such as the Catholic Church, an alternative belief system has to find some means of legitimising its teachings with reference to history and tradition. For Freemasonry, this goal was achieved by associating itself with religious teachings
that had their origins in ancient Egypt and Greece.

Controversially, it could be argued that the Masonic
symbol ‘G’ represents the secret gnosis of the brotherhood.
These beliefs were not only secret, they were
also heretical, and they were revolutionary in that they
placed the individual above any man-made structure
of authority – either the Church or the state. This
idea of personal freedom and personal responsibility
is the foundation of the modern capitalist democracies
of the Western world.

Given the times they lived in, I think "infamous" is a bit harsh on the Knights Templar. They were exterminated by the Roman Catholic Church in what was nothing more than a power grab and the blatant theft of the money in the banking system the KT were running and of course the actual wealth of the knights. Not very Christian! Then many of the stories about them were written by the Church, and frankly, I would not put much credence on them - they were more in an attempt to justify the Church as anything else.

Inside the Freemasons (Netflix TV documentary series) https://www.netflix.com/title/80240816

Freemasons: 3 Weird Things About The House of The Temple https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HLJ5...

Thanks for the link James. The building would also be aligned East to West in order to meet the rising and setting Sun. It is all about associating itself with ancient mystery religions. Freemasonry is not a religious entity that enforces doctrine and dogma; rather, it is a form of religious faith that insists its members understand and perform rituals that reinforce a sense of elitism, exclusiveness, secrecy and spirituality. The pulpit of this mystery religion centres on the esoteric meaning of its symbols and how they provide a historical and theological narrative that strives for the perfection of mankind.

Tony wrote: "Thanks for the link James. The building would also be aligned East to West in order to meet the rising and setting Sun. It is all about associating itself with ancient mystery religions. Freemasonr..."

Good info, Tony - cheers.

And for all Undergrounders:

Tony's new book, RATIONAL RELIGION: The Mystery of Freemasonry and the quest to find the Jesus of history has just been published. I've gotten a copy via Amazon and suggest any interested truthseekers do also:

Kindle ebook: https://www.amazon.com/RATIONAL-RELIG...

Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/RATIONAL-RELIG...

I've heard rumors that the Rotary Club and the Lions Clubs are extensions of Freemasonry or somehow linked.

Anyone know about that?

Bill Gates at Rotary convention | Rotary International https://www.rotary.org/en/bill-gates-...

Symbolism of those clubs seems a bit Masonic also...

Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry: First Three Degrees