Golden Age of Hollywood Book Club discussion

Men with snap-brim hats and handkerchiefs (two; one for them and one ready for a lady). Zippo lighters. Cigarette cases. Women with cigarette-holders. Lorgnettes.

A man doesn't wear a hat in the house; if he goes to get himself a drink he asks the woman if she would like one too.

He pulls out her chair when she sits; and punches a guy for insulting her (or his mother, either).

Women's names are not mentioned in barrooms and women don't drink in barrooms.

Others?

Here's a two-part series of NYT food-supplement articles which caused a lot of notoriety in Gotham.

All about restaurant service. From it, you get a little hint of what old-world service used to be like, (I think so anyway).

Although Cagney's captain in 'Mister Roberts' fumed at his lowly past, nevertheless ...

https://tinyurl.com/vn6vvj9
https://tinyurl.com/v3zdpaz

...there's a third installment but NYT has a limit of reads per month and I've used mine up already.

Interesting articles.....somehow the first one wouldn't open so I read the last 50 things a server should remember. Some were surprising, some have happened to all of us.......why did it cause notoriety in NYC? It all makes sense, or at least most of it, but very little of it is practiced.

New York is a strident 'service' town. Bad service predominates (making New Yorkers some of the cheapest and most complaingest in the world) but since there are so many citizens working in this sector, resentment always festers when criticism is handed out.

I double-checked the link and it seems fine; but I will re-do it if anyone else has a malfunction.

I thought #32 was interesting about not touching the guest so if the guest starts to choke, definitely don't apply the Heimlich Maneuver.

I was reading recently how it was that until the first incarnation of the Waldorf-Astoria (two rival hotels side-by-side 1897 - 1929, forced to move thanks to ESB) the wealthy used to always dine in the privacy of their own mansions and fancy homes. The Astor family changed that habit and made hotel dining so impeccable that it became fashionable to dine out in fancy dress.

Betsy wrote: "I thought #32 was interesting about not touching the guest so if the guest starts to choke, definitely don't apply the Heimlich Maneuver."

Good one, Betsy.

That is sure humor in a jugular vein.

I went back to the first link and now it works......must have been my computer rebelling.

I was looking at the list again. (BTW, the 2nd half wouldn't come up.)

#2 was about singles, but they must think singles are very sensitive. I ate by myself many times and didn't care if they asked if I was expecting someone. I would have been put out if they asked if I had a reservation as if a single person wouldn't have been let in without one. Asking if they want to sit at the bar, makes them seem a pariah.

I also thought #7 was strange about the server not offering a name. So what, almost every restaurant does that nowadays. This must be an old list or just for the wealthy.

Seems like either the first half or the second half of the list fails to launch, independently and variously. Be that as it may, both halves can be found on the host site, using any www search tool. The keyword to search on is any phrase such as: "100 things restaurant staffers should never do". Any combination of these words will bring you to the full articles. There's even a third installment made up of just 'user-comments' and reactions.

It is a discourse on how the finest five-star restaurants should operate; as you know competition is fierce for status in New York's cutthroat dining scene. It's less applicable for pubs or casual eateries.

But I do think it reveals the old-world sensibility as far as customer service. The correct 'attitude' seems to be very difficult for today's "it's all about me" society.

I always get a kick out of the portrayal of the Mother in old film. First, the player is usually way too old to have young children.....and second, she always wears an apron. Never fails.

The only exception I can think of is Greer Garson in Mrs. Miniver and then to top it off, in real life she married the young man, Richard Ney, who played her son!!

Good point about some mothers being too old for young children. Men could still be randy at 80, but nature gives women a break at an earlier age, thankfully. I think it's one of those things in movies/tv that you're supposed to take with a grain of salt.

with the exception of Joan Collins, Mae West, etc.

I dunno; I think while classic movies followed the Hays Code nonetheless in real life actors and actresses always defied precepts of ageism. I can't even recall the number of trivia items I've read and forgotten about similar to the charming one above re: Greer. Love is blind!

And my favorite anecdote of all (of this sort, anyway) is about Claudette Colbert. She was 43 and still --in one instance at least --being asked to play a 17-yr-old character role.

A man always walks on the outside arm of a lady, when strolling down a sidewalk. He steps between her and the street. She takes the inside.

John Travolta's favorite movie of all time is, 'A Man and a Woman' starring Anouk Aimee and Jean-Louis Trintinagent

Married couples always slept in twin beds......but the was one of the Code rules. And did you notice that people always had a robe and slippers right beside the bed so that if they had to be shown getting up, they could put them on immediately.

As an aside, the 'I Love Lucy' episodes of the 50s had them sleeping in a double bed (really twin beds pushed together) for one season, but after that the beds were pushed apart. I would assume that tv followed some 'code' too, even if the couple was really married.

I was trying to think of some married couples who starred in movies together, and the only ones I could think of were Paul Newman/Joanne Woodward, Elizabeth Taylor/Richard Burton and Humphrey Bogart/Lauren Bacall right off hand.

These also come to mind:

Orson Welles/Rita Hayworth
Bette Davis/Gary Merrill
Mary Pickford/Douglas Fairbanks

Liz Taylor starred in films with like 6 out of her 7 husbands didnt she? ha

But we're not going to turn this august forum into a mere gossip column!

Slap muh face...

But it was funny, Feliks.

Thanks. I'm more a fan of John Belushi's scathing take-down of Liz than I am of Liz herself. Ugh. DIslike even thinking about her!

I like Elizabeth Taylor. She may not have been the greatest actress, but I admire her work for AIDS groups. She also did things 'her' way. So she married many times. (So did Mickey Rooney.) That's not a crime, and better to try to find happiness than stay married to someone who makes you miserable.

One of my favorite Taylor and Burton movies is the spectacular epic, Cleopatra.

My favorite of theirs is 'The VIPs' with a great cast. It's the one Margaret Rutherford won her Oscar for. It may not be a great movie, but there's something about it that appeals to me.

I salute Liz for 'Virginia Woolf' but I'm not sure if I can name even one other which appeals to me. Seen her in plenty of roles but ...ah, oh if this is just about naming what film she and Dick were in, which I would tolerate more than her others (with him as her co-star) then I would choose 'The Sandpiper'.

I wonder how the greeting, "How do you do?" went out of fashion. That phrase was probably around since Queen Elizabeth. And in so many movies ...up until the late 1950s (I'd estimate). It was one of most commonplace expressions in our tongue.

Too long to say, and how many people really want to know how you're doing?

One episode of I Love Lucy has a plot about leaning to speak correctly, and one of phrases emphasized was, 'How do you do.' Another was, 'Pleased to meet you' instead of 'meetcha'.

I have a book that belonged to my grandmother which is about "good manners'. One of my favorites which I have used is, upon parting after a conversation, one says "I wish you well". There is something very personal about that phrase.

I myself recently read (or rather, browsed through) this free pdf book: The Gentleman's Book of Etiquette and Manual of Politeness.

Now this is really old-school. Like, William Wyler's 'Jezebel' era.

Elias Norbert is the best scholar I know of, on this topic. He can explain how something in the medieval era, still finds its way down unto our own times.

Of course, a truly classical work would be The Book of the Courtier

But in this thread we're mostly just talking about things seen in classic movies that are no longer found in contemporary times.

What I find disturbing though is how so many people today can't even seem to imagine, people just like themselves ever having existed at any other period. They're not able to exercise imagination and use it as a tool.

It shows up around Halloween, too.

When introduced to someone, my mother would say, "Glad to know you." I wondered how she could "know" someone when she just met them. In watching movies of the 1930s and 1940s, I often hear the phrase "glad to know you" or similar. Since my mother was of that era, I now understand why she said it. In old movies I love to observe sayings and mannerisms of the era.

I never thought about that one, Mollie but you are right. The other one I really don't care for is "Glad to meet you" which usually comes out "Glad to meetcha".

Another thing that has gone by the wayside....men removed their hats when entering a room/elevator, etc.. Someone recently said "Oh, baseball caps don't count". The heck they don't.

HA! Yep. Remember Cary Grant needling Jimmy Stewart in 'Philadelphia Story' about that?

That's another reason I love the 1920s-1940s as men wore suits and dress hats. Per newsreels from that era, men even wore suits and hats to riot and commit crimes!

And to sporting events. Nothing looks better than a double breasted suit and a snap brim hat. Great style in those days. And of course, women always wore a hat and gloves.

That kind of style looks great on Cary Grant, Gary Cooper, Gregory Peck. Personally, I look more pathetic than Eiisha Cook in it. I hate putting it on and I hate wearing it. One of many reasons I have never had a real job.

Jon Hamm pulls it off pretty well, too.

I'm not a fan of ties myself but I recognize that shoes, ties, and wristwatch are the only accessories we man have left. I think anyone can be made to look good if you know how to shop (which I do not).

But yes I hate collar shirts which one button all the way up so that one can put the tie on. I do wear Oxford shirts every day to work but always unbuttoned at the neck. Now that entry-level days are over, I wear practically anything but shorts to work. Extremely lucky.

Imagine if your daily routine was not just a nice red tie, dark sport coat, khakis, loafers. It was 3-piece, vest, pocket watch, wing tips!

something like a William Powell movie, the one where he played the fast-talking real-life New York lawyer. Or maybe it was Warren William or Ricardo Cortez. Those guys do well in get-ups like that.

Spencer wrote: "That kind of style looks great on Cary Grant, Gary Cooper, Gregory Peck. Personally, I look more pathetic than Eiisha Cook in it. I hate putting it on and I hate wearing it. One of many reasons I h..."

Elisha Cook!!! LOL, Spencer.

And I never knew anyone who wore a "smoking jacket"......those things look like bathrobes that are too short.

It makes sense though. If you've ever been around a smoker, you know how difficult it is to get the stale fumes out of clothes.

Somehow I can't believe the smoking jacket makes that much difference since the odor pervades everything. Just another piece of clothing to clean.

They are a bit too effete for me......reminds me of Philo Vance in a silk smoking jacket with a cigarette holder in his hand. Speaking of cigarette holders, those used to be around a lot in old films but now they look silly.

And is there a woman living today that cleans house in high heels????

A fountain pen is still pretty cool even today. They're a cult item among some men like fine wristwatches.

I snagged myself a few nice ones. but I get too worried about losing them to carry them around much.

I love fountain pens.......in a film when someone whips out a fountain pen to sign a check, it is so classy.

Yeah! And modern ones are not difficult to operate either.

It's funny too how hair products --while not exactly the same brands (Brylcreem, Vitalis) --well, men and boys still wear hair pomades and waxes today. 'Still wearing that greasy kid stuff?' ha

p.s. Brylcreem:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brylcreem