Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion

Again, sorry for the delay. I was terminally ill for a very long time and am now just starting to recover. I knew the consequences of having a pulmonary embolism which produced multiple clots in both lungs. But, shit, nobody warned me about being crippled or nearly bed-ridden. I even have memory loss and have to re-learn the keyboard. I'm making godawful mistakes with words and key positions. So, I'm typing this real slow.

Anyway;

Since 2001 the amount of Zombie books and films has doubled. It's still going incredibly strong with no letup. I can't help thinking that this trend will continue or morph into something very similar. Plagues, bugs, viruses, strains, more of the same--pandemics. I guess we owe it all to Romero, although it was alive in culture thousands of years before that. I know some of the self-publishers who got on this trope years ago and are still profiting from it. Me? never wrote one. I just can't ascribe a thorough characterization to a foe/protag that either is fast or slow and eats flesh. Oh, and many of them need head-shots, fire or complete dismemberment.

Zombies are so ill-struck, deteriorated, limited in agility and function, it's a wonder they're alive at all. They attack in shear numbers and are usually brought down by gunfire or other instruments of mayhem and destruction. For the life of me I can't see a complex plot in any of these movies. I'm sure some of the books (I haven't read yet) have a semblance of motivation and diversity--but I wonder what, other than wiping the hoard out, surviving or finding a cure, is the statement or solution to this. I mean, how much better could one Z flick be from the next? Do we add sparkles or really smart zombies who can mask their identities? Shape-shifting zombies--really pretty or handsome ones. We've got them on ships/boats, grocery stores, in the forest and in desolate cities and townships. Just keep changing the environments and locations?

I'm agog at running through the TV listings and finding Z movies in the droves. The science and nature channels are running series and special programs. I think the only Z movie that made me laugh and pay attention was Zombieland. That one had some personality.

What say you? Is this Zombie thing a tiresome, worked over trope or trend, or are we headed for more of this for the next couple years? I wish I had a crystal ball--As far as trends go--this one's got me stymied and a little bit fed up.

I had two editors tell me that Michael Crichtonish type strain and plague books were as dead as ever. This was four years ago. I'd like to ask them about that now and see what they're buying.

Chris

Yes! This zombie thing is becoming a tiresome, overdone trend.
Yes! we are headed for even more of this for at least the next couple of years.

First and foremost, glad you haven't joined the zombie ranks yourself and are recovering!

Second, yeah, I'm with you on that. The whole zombie thing needs to die.

Real horror is what a story makes us confront within ourselves.

Totally agreed. We need some new, diverse and original horror. There's plenty of room for it. Hell, Jim, you even have a nice little ghost story going for you.

We need Del Toro to change track and Cameron to get busy.

The major issue is that zombies have become background radiation in their own stories. The Walking Dead (comic or TV) is notorious for this. You have a lot of character driven stuff (mostly in the comic) with zombies in the background. Romero's zombies always provided a mirror but now, most zombie media is just about the gore and an excuse to show a nihilistic view on humanity. Though that last point can be a problem in post-apocalyptic fiction in general.

Zombies now are at their best being used like seasoning, or even like an appetizer (yummy brains). Just a little bit, to bring out the overall flavor instead of letting them overrun the metaphorical paramedics.

Ashe, I agree, but would still like to see more plot and intricacy of characterization. I think the Walking Dead is headed in the right direction or trying awfully hard to achieve some depth.

World War Z was a big disappointment for me--even given that Brad Pitt stared. We still had chasing down the serum again. Heck, The Omega man pulled that one off years ago. So what do they do, they give us I am legend as a remake. But at least the Zombies were fast, thinking and cunning--somewhat of a pseudo personality--or a harboring revenge instinct.

Have we ever had talking, intelligent zombies?

If you want fast, intelligent, TALKING zombies, check out Return of the Living Dead. That's actually where the brain-eating trope came from.

TWD actually got boring for me around issue 90. I gave up on the show almost immediately.

I never bothered with WWZ, though I will read it eventually. I love the idea of an oral history of the whole ordeal. I Am Legend, the book, is amazing and I'm disapoointed that there hasn't been a good adaptation since The Last Man On Earth.

I'd have to go through some more comics and books to think of some other good uses (they exist). As for movies or tv, it just doesn't happen a whole lot anymore.

I think more reading on my part might open up and dispel my tiresome taste. After all, hundreds of pages can cover a lot of plot and ground. I'm particularly interest in the virus/plague origins and would like to get a grip on those ideas and explanations.

Definitely find some anthologies or novels. The glut of cheap and lazy zombie movies can turn anyone sour.

Oh, I agree about that. Storyline always trumps visuals.

I am totally put off by Zombie anything. Too similar to cannibalism, which I also avoid completely.
I can be reading a book description and liking it so far, but one mention of Zombie and I'm not at all interested.
I also read very little horror. To me, based on my own experiences, real life is scary enough. I don't need to read fictional accounts to terrify me. To me that is not at all entertaining. Lots of people love it. I'm glad it's out there for them. It's just not for me.

The zombie thing might be getting a little overdone. (Granted some would say that about vampires and I write vampire fiction. Go figure.) I watch The Walking Dead and have watched an occasional movie like I am Legend (yes, the remake with Will Smith). I thought it was fairly well done, but I haven't read the book.

TWD can drag on at times, but I'm not sure if I agree the zombies are like background radiation or seasoning. I think I would get really bored if all there was to zombie movies/shows are the zombies mulling around eating people. You need some human characters to care about, or what the heck would be the point?

Just my 2 cents.

Zombies are emotionally empty and static, other than the few senses they have which borders on predation and nothing much more. That is the clue for the writers to really accentuate the real human character story lines to fill in this enormous blank. What you have with the typical zombie story is a meaningless, shallow protag that serves nothing more than monster fodder. It rings of sensational morbidity, harkening back to the B-slasher films. Of course, I'm primarily talking about the film versions which have clogged the visual programing as of late.

Chris wrote: "Totally agreed. We need some new, diverse and original horror. There's plenty of room for it. Hell, Jim, you even have a nice little ghost story going for you."

Original *horror*? Although it's really modern gothic . . . try "The Well," or "The Hauntings of Hood Canal," by Jack Cady.

I never thought I would say that anything did this, but for me, "The Well" surpassed "The Fall of the House of Usher."

Yes. Bored of them already.

Renee wrote: "Chris wrote: "Totally agreed. We need some new, diverse and original horror. There's plenty of room for it. Hell, Jim, you even have a nice little ghost story going for you."

Original *horror*? A..."

The late Jack Cady will be remembered for his unique writing and story telling ability long after many of his peers are forgotten.

At last, someone who has read Cady!

His work has been buried under the morass of the merely adequate for too long. I fell in love with it, unknowing, when I was a teenager. I stumbled across the short story, "The Burning" somewhere and it haunted me. I couldn't remember the author's name. And then "The Night We Buried Road Dog," in Science Fiction and Fantasy. I didn't put the two together until all these years later as I've collected his works and read, and re-read, and re-re-read and continue to do so. I think perhaps his novel, Singleton, is my favorite of the novels, and Singleton was the narrative character in "The Burning."

I wish I could have known him, but reading his words and their keen insights has definitely made me a far better writer than I ever could have been without him.

Nope, love the zombie stuff but I also break up what I read and watch so I don't really feel like I'm being bombarded with it. I've been a fan of the zombie stuff for a long time and even went to a Zombiejamborie outside of Pittsburgh way back in the day. However, that being said, I can imagine some people may be tired of it. Which is fine. There are plenty of other things to read and watch out there. Also, if anyone in here can come up with something totally new and creepier than zombies then I am interested in reading about it and watching it. One of my favorite creatures growing up, other than zombies, that really freaked me out was the creature from John Carpenter's The Thing. That head upside down on spider legs gave me nightmares for weeks :o)

No zombies in my books :) People are more than scary enough ....

I absolutely HATE zombies -- and yes, as Ashe pointed out, the big turn-off for me is nihilism. Anyway, I write heroic fiction (air rescue is my specialty topic), so as to COUNTER the nihilistic views being pushed on us all by zombie/post-apocalyptic fiction!

I was never into zombies, but it really really got tiresome when the talk about the Zombie Apocalypse started getting into conversations as if it were real. I know people who are actually convinced that it may happen some day...and they are not talking about the walking brain-dead in Washington DC.

They did the same thing with vampires back in the 90s. It seems like every decade has its pet monster that it beats to death like the proverbial dead horse. Only zombie horses keep coming back, lol.
My latest novel has zombies in it, but they're part of a greater post-apoc. It's not The Zombie Apocalypse, it's more Apocalypse Of Everything That Could Kill You... including zombies. I try not to add to the saturation of the market, but zombies are so versatile and they're such an ingrained part of American mythology it's hard to get away from them.

Is the Wicked Witch of the West in there too? ;-)

As one who was never in to zombies, I'd love to see the end of this fad. Sorry to hear you have had a rough time Chris and I hope 2015 will be a much better year for you.

Brenda wrote: "I am totally put off by Zombie anything. Too similar to cannibalism, which I also avoid completely.
I can be reading a book description and liking it so far, but one mention of Zombie and I'm not a..."

I'm one that ascribes to a loose definition of "zombie." I'd call Contagion a zombie movie, or the first half of one, at least. One I hope to read one day is Cordyceps. As near as I can tell, the infected don't attack the uninfected, but they do start crawling into vents to spread the infection, so I don't know what happens after that.

Dennis wrote: "Is the Wicked Witch of the West in there too? ;-)"

There's A wicked witch... not of the West, though. Think further back, and more Grimm.

Fed up by apocalypse scenarios, the chosen one, zombies, dragons, vampires, werewolves, angels, and demons. Enough already! As an author, I strive for originality. As a consumer of books, series, and movies, I demand it.

Yes and for zombies also read vampires

Mark wrote: "Fed up by apocalypse scenarios, the chosen one, zombies, dragons, vampires, werewolves, angels, and demons. Enough already! As an author, I strive for originality. As a consumer of books, series, a..."

I agree that every writer should find their own voice and tell the stories that only THEY can tell.... BUT plenty of readers like the familiar and the comfortable. I've been reading Stephen King for most of my life, and opening one of his books is like pulling on a pair of comfy old socks.
I am not suggesting that everyone copy each other's ideas in order to make more money, but I'm just saying that one should not be embarrassed by repetition or scrap a story just because it's been done before. Harry Potter had been done before, and the series still revolutionized the YA market. There are no absolutes in this business--except that there are no absolutes.
Zombies ARE overdone, though. Sexy vampires, too. Most of the readers I know have moved on to other things.

Dawn wrote: BUT plenty of readers like the familiar and the comfortable. I've been reading Stephen King for most of my life, and opening one of his books is like pulling on a pair of comfy old socks. I am not suggesting that everyone copy each other's ideas in order to make more money, but I'm just saying that one should not be embarrassed by repetition or scrap a story just because it's been done before. Harry Potter had been done before, and the series still revolutionized the YA market. There are no absolutes in this business--except that there are no absolutes.

Familiar and comfortable is fine if familiar and comfortable are not boring. The problem is most authors who write about tired ideas do not bring anything original to the table or give those tired ideas new twists that would re-invent them. That's what King did. Also what Rowling did. Which is why their work stands out.

God help me, I'll even admit that's what Stephenie Meyer did with Twilight. Her changes to vampires almost ruined them in hindsight, but she owed a lot of her success when it happened to those changes. The changes brought something different to the table. Goodness knows her success cannot be attributed to her writing talent. The woman has almost none.

The short answer to your question is a resounding YES!

I'm also fed up with vampires and werewolves.

Love Vampires, love Werewolves, hate, hate, hate Zombies!

The notion of a post apocalyptic world is ancient (see Noah's flood in the Old Testament, and even older tales in Hindu scripture).

Every story has been done before, some more than others. Personally 'love triangle' stories are my latest pet hate, but I'll survive it and move on, I'm sure :-)