Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

"And why is it that citizens' arrests on Blair are seen as a joke to many and ignored by the police, when legally he should be sat in a cell with some big, tattooed Scottish man called Keith?"

Are you offering? :-)

Harry wrote: "James said: "Yes, (Mandela) was violent in his early years and yes this has been airbrushed. But no Mandela was not ever proven guilty of being a terrorist - for that he would have had to have used..."

Harry, you are 100% correct about Blair and Kissinger, throw in Bush and Obama as well!

But regarding Blair, how about the BAE corruption scandals that Blair ordered the Serious Fraud Squad to DROP the investigations into BAE bribing foreign members of governments to buy BAE equipment?

Don't worry, Harry, construction of the Underground Knowledge Prison has begun. We as a group have already found the likes of Kissinger, Blair, Bush (father & son), Obama and rumsfeld guilty of terrorism. They will soon be transported to this prison and Keith is ready to share their cells and looking forward to it!

John wrote: "Harry wrote: "James said: "Yes, (Mandela) was violent in his early years and yes this has been airbrushed. But no Mandela was not ever proven guilty of being a terrorist - for that he would have ha..."

Yep... :)

J.M. wrote: ""And why is it that citizens' arrests on Blair are seen as a joke to many and ignored by the police, when legally he should be sat in a cell with some big, tattooed Scottish man called Keith?"

Are..."

Citizens' arrests have been made on Blair a few times -last year was the most recent, by a waiter who was working at a restaurant Blair and his cronies, sorry, mates, had gone to. It got a fair bit of press. So I don't think my attempt would have any effect. Damn it, I would if I could though!

James Morcan wrote: "Don't worry, Harry, construction of the Underground Knowledge Prison has begun. We as a group have already found the likes of Kissinger, Blair, Bush (father & son), Obama and rumsfeld guilty of ter..."

Free Keith.

"Bashar al Assad is a good man, he won, in a election that was monitored and found fair, by a resounding majority!"

If he is so good, who is using chemical weapons against the Syrian civilian population? The barrel bombs that were used came from Helicopters and the only people who have helos are the Syrian armed forces, what's left of them. It seems as though some rebels were also guilty according to monitors out there but they don't have access to helicopters.

There is no doubt at all that chemical weapons have been used against civilians, and the likelihood is by Syrian government forces. That doesn't seem to me to be the mark of a good man.

I think this discussion is getting a bit heated and I have other things to do so I'm bowing out of this one. I have found all your posts (John, James, Harry and Martin) interesting and I've learned some more things I didn't know before, so thanks for that. One thing I will say is thank God I don't live in those areas where countries are torn apart by war, and I hope that Syria can recover from the terrible things happening to it in time. Good night all.

James Morcan wrote: "Don't worry, Harry, construction of the Underground Knowledge Prison has begun. We as a group have already found the likes of Kissinger, Blair, Bush (father & son), Obama and rumsfeld guilty of ter..."

You forgot Cheney and Hilary, throw her in for her part in the amazing documentary, The New Clinton Chronicles!
Plus she might add a distraction for "The boys"!

J.M. wrote: ""During Mandela's young days, certainly he conspired to organise demonstrations/strikes but he id not take up a firearm and plant explosives. He was a lawyer and he fought mainly using the law and ..."

Hi JM, please please do not attribute the whole setting up of the MK down to one man, Nelson.
Zuma, Embeki, Sizulu, Ramaphosa, and many others were involved,

Not heated at all from my end, J.M.
Just an intellectual debate as far as I'd observed (unless I missed something)

Harry, when does the Free Keith campaign begin? And does Keith actually want to be released? Also, I wasn't aware any citizens arrests had been attempted on Blair. Is there any footage on these attempts?

Here's the story on the Blair arrest:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/...

Sadly, no footage. I did see the guy do an interview on The People's Voice though.

I think Keith'll be happy where he is as long as we furnish him with Whiskey. However, if any attempt is made to transfer him to Guantanamo Bay...

J.M. wrote: ""Bashar al Assad is a good man, he won, in a election that was monitored and found fair, by a resounding majority!"

If he is so good, who is using chemical weapons against the Syrian civilian popu..."

Sorry if i seemed heated JM, it was not my intention, the problem is that the propaganda machine against Assad is incredible!

Lets take the one Red Line issue regarding the Ghouta chemical attacks!
You have to remember that the whole area is under Sat visuals.
Finally the rocket trajectory has been traced, from one terrorist group firing on another terrorist group, the children, horrifically killed and all layed out, where from another village some 50K's away, pictures have surfaced, they always do, of white skinned instructors teaching brown skinned terrorists how to make launchers, how to make chemical rockets and how to fire them.
That is why Obama DID NOT go with his threats!

Barrel bombs!!!! I have seen them used in Vietnam, Congo, Angola, Mozambique and many other places, yes the SAA probably did use them, but i believe the civilian casualty count was highly exaggerated.
Another point is why use barrel bombs when you have rockets!

Harry wrote: "J.M. wrote: ""And why is it that citizens' arrests on Blair are seen as a joke to many and ignored by the police, when legally he should be sat in a cell with some big, tattooed Scottish man called..."

What i would like to know is why Blair was never arrested over corruption and why, being as UK does not have a statute of limitations, he is not arrested now over the BAE bribes scandal. Blair when he was PM ordered the Serious Fraud Squad to DROP the investigations into BAE bribing senior government officials in Saudi, South Africa, Tanzania, Botswana and other countries to buy BAE equipment!
WHY NO CHARGES!!!

John wrote: "Harry wrote: "J.M. wrote: ""And why is it that citizens' arrests on Blair are seen as a joke to many and ignored by the police, when legally he should be sat in a cell with some big, tattooed Scott..."

True, there's even more factual stuff surrounding the BAE bribes. It's laughable that Blair was the one to drop the investigation.

Neutral inquiries are needed all round.

Like all the other elitists, Blair is above any investigation, let alone being prosecuted.
However...citizens arrests...you never know, this could work...or at least make an important statement.
I wonder if fairly soon a British citizen will attempt to arrest Blair every time he leaves his house? Ha!
And will Americans soon follow shit with the likes of George W. Bush?

I just noticed I had a Freudian slip in my post above.
I meant to say follow suit.
However, I think I'll leave it as is!

Maybe that's why Blair spends little time in British public lately; which makes it even more astounding that he attended the Labour conference to try and convince people not to vote for Corbyn.

I liked your (presumably) mistake of writing: "Will Americans soon follow SHIT..." :)

BAE sold military air traffice radar to both Botswana and Tanzania, when neither had an airforce!!
The al Jamayal bribes to Saudi,
And the bribes to the illustrious Vice President of South Africa, Jacob Zuma!!!
The Scorpions investigated Zuma, thats why half way through his first term as Pres he disbanded them and amalgamated them into the SAPS as the HAWKS!

And your Freudian slip was great James!

InfoWars may soon be (mis)quoting me as saying "Americans follow shit"...
This is how media games are played!

Was that: "Americans fullo shit"?

This may not be the right place for this, but, it is certainly worth reading!!

http://www.voltairenet.org/article188...

I got this email from someone (ahem...cough, cough...someone in this group?...cough, cough) who is a now retired member of the intelligence community and a veteran in that field - here are some excerpts:


"Something was needed to generate massive Islamaphobia and generate more support for the wars an increased security levels in the US..."

"The US has achieved its goal. Islamaphobia is spreading across the US/Aus/Can/EU/UK. Carefully engineered but to the trained investigator they cannot deny their complicity in terror!"

"You may think this is extreme but if you look at what is happening now and the casualties around the world now you will realize that "they" do not care, "they have to achieve their goal which is total control of the ME and Islamic world."

"If we go onto ISIS/ISIL/Al Nusra now, lets look at who started all of these, yep, the US along with UK assistance, AlQaeda was a birth child of the US way back in the days of the Mujahadeen in 88 onwards.
ISIS was also a birth child of the US, Its leader Al Baghdadi was in US custody, when the Americans handed over the prisoners to Iraqi control, he and 3 others were not handed over, Al Baghdadi was taken out of Iraq to Israel, he was trained by the MOSSAD and CIA, financed and armed, Saudi released prisoners from their jails to fight with ISIS as well. Evidence of Israeli involvement came with A/ Arms deliveries, B/ Field hospitals in the Golan Heights to treat ISIS wounded."

"Movement of fighters through Turkey became regular, training camps in Jordan run by the CIA became regular.
The intent, to take out Syria's Assad regime after the British public had said no to boots on the ground and the American public also were heavily involved in no war in Syria. The gas attack in Ghouta has now been proved to be elements of the insurgents, with assistance from the CIA/MOSSAD."

"The latest developments with ISIS are a major assistance to US intentions in Syria and Iraq, They are hoping that ISIS will overthrow the Assad regime then they will step in and remove ISIS and install their own puppet government. Lets face it, they are not interested or really attempting to destroy iSIS at the moment. That can wait unti ISIS has finished its job, obviously all the "foot soldiers"of ISIS do not know this, it is a select few at the top that are involved."

Harry wrote: "Was that: "Americans fullo shit"?"

This is fast devolving into Chinese whispers!

President Obama is too soft to call out terrorist attacks for what they are.

It's not extreme workplace violence, or other candy coated terms. It's terrorism. *sigh*

Noam Chomsky would say:


"The Obama administration is dedicated to increasing terrorism. In fact, it’s doing it all over the world. Obama is running the biggest terrorist operation that exists, maybe in history: the drone assassination campaigns, which are just part of it [...] All of these operations, they are terror operations."

And he would be right.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-...

James Morcan wrote: "Harry wrote: "Was that: "Americans fullo shit"?"

This is fast devolving into Chinese whispers!"

Chinese whippers, you say?

Harry wrote: "Noam Chomsky would say:


"The Obama administration is dedicated to increasing terrorism. In fact, it’s doing it all over the world. Obama is running the biggest terrorist operation that exists, m..."

Great Chomsky quote, Harry.

I wondered if this news story could perhaps be insightful in regards to who the real aggressors are on the world stage?

Kenya Investigates Undeclared Weapons On Ship Carrying UN Vehicles -- http://www.ibtimes.com/kenya-investig...

Here's an excerpt:

"Twenty of the crew members are set to be charged with illegal weapons trafficking, and Kenyan authorities are trying to determine if the weapons were being transported by a U.N. agency, and why the arms were not declared in the ship’s manifest."

Harry wrote: "Noam Chomsky would say:


"The Obama administration is dedicated to increasing terrorism. In fact, it’s doing it all over the world. Obama is running the biggest terrorist operation that exists, m..."

Excellent and accurate post Harry!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/wor...

Deniable terrorism, the article is very inaccurate, Davis was CIA although his cover was Blackwater/XE.
Davis was in the middle of transferring bio-chemical weapons to the Taliban to be used against American soldiers so that the American people would be "up in the air" with anger and be screaming for blood!!
The ISI had been behind him for some weeks at this stage!!
Obama paid $2,000,000 to the families of the dead ISI agents.
Only then was Davis released back to the USA.
I guess the US administration REALLY DID NOT want Davis "questioned" by the Pakistani authorities, TOO much would have come out!

Harry wrote: "Noam Chomsky would say:


"The Obama administration is dedicated to increasing terrorism. In fact, it’s doing it all over the world. Obama is running the biggest terrorist operation that exists, m..."

There is an old adage about insurgents and terrorists: "Kill one and you create two more."

Terrorism and who's a terrorist depends upon who you are, your ethnicity and where you happen to live in this world. Fundamentally terrorism is any group whose ideology makes them a threat to you, your family and your ability to survive and live a normal life. We tend to think of the Middle East when we think of terrorism but there are people who threaten others way of life in all parts of the world. There has been terrorism in Ireland, the Philippines and other area of Southern Asia. Terrorists are made not born. Made in hatred. Most Muslims, the current focus of the word terrorist, are family people who want to be left in peace to raise their families, work and have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness just as most of us are seeking.

Troy wrote: "Terrorism and who's a terrorist depends upon who you are, your ethnicity and where you happen to live in this world. Fundamentally terrorism is any group whose ideology makes them a threat to you, ..."

Great post Troy, if someone was to bomb my family, use drone strikes against my village, destroy my countries infrastructure, kidnap and rendition my friends and torture them until they invented scenario's so the pain would stop,
THEN I WOULD BE THE MOST EVIL, NASTY SOB EVER TERRORIST!

Martin wrote: "Harry wrote: "Noam Chomsky would say:


"The Obama administration is dedicated to increasing terrorism. In fact, it’s doing it all over the world. Obama is running the biggest terrorist operation ..."

That is very true, you make a martyr and there are always those who will join to become a martyr!!

John wrote: "Martin wrote: "Harry wrote: "Noam Chomsky would say:


"The Obama administration is dedicated to increasing terrorism. In fact, it’s doing it all over the world. Obama is running the biggest terro..."

In the US, it's not widely known how we reduced violence in Iraq enough to pull out. The media pushes the story that the so-call "Surge" was responsible. It wasn't. The Surge wasn't even a military mission; it was conjured up by the American Enterprise Association, a right-wing corporate think tank, to increase payouts to contractors.

We managed to get many of the insurgent groups to stop attacking us by simply paying them. An American Army colonel (later KIA) realized the reason the Iraqis hated us was that the Bush administration took all their livelihoods away because they were Baathist. The colonel proposed paying the insurgents $100 a month each to stop attacking us. The administration was against it, but the military went ahead and negotiated with all the militia leaders and brokered a deal. When the US pulled out, part of the pull out agreement was that the Iraqi government would continue the payouts. It did for a while, then stopped. That's when the violence erupted again.

Martin wrote: "The Surge wasn't even a military mission; it was conjured up by the American Enterprise Association, a right-wing corporate think tank, to increase payouts to contractors. ..."

Stories like this from military insiders like you are exactly why I advise people that we should all be saying "down with the American Empire" but NOT down with America itself.

The Far Right NeoCons created this new American Empire post 9/11 and it's for some reason been continued on with by the supposedly Left Wing Obama administration. It's easily one of the most war-like, aggressive empires the world has ever seen...A far bigger threat to civilization than a few scattered Islamic fundamentalists.

So unfortunatley, people around the world confuse this US imperialism with America itself, and they end up hating all Americans. And now America has lost all the goodwill she had around the world following WW2 in rescuing so many countries and upholding liberty in the 1940s.

Also, what many non-Americans don't realize is that American citizens are just as much a victim of this war machine as foreigners are...As these ridiculous wars are slowly but surely bankrupting the US - all this military spending out of the budget for the people creates homelessness, no budget for universal healthcare (like every other developed First World country on Earth has!) and eviction from homes or foreclosures.
It's a callous regime that seems to actually be controlled by global elitists who don't care for any nation of people, including the US.

The reason I, as a non-American, take an interest in all this is because I firmly believe the world cannot financially withstand America going bankrupt. Such an event would be cataclysmic and make the 1929 depression look like a picnic.

James Morcan wrote: "The Far Right NeoCons created this new American Empire post 9/11 and it's for some reason been continued on with by the supposedly Left Wing Obama administration. ..."

James, to understand the restraints Obama has had to operate under, you have to understand what’s happening in the US political landscape. You like conspiracies. Here’s a real one.

At the same time Obama was being sworn in as president for the first time, senior Republicans held a meeting at Washington DC restaurant. At the meeting, they colluded to block any and all of Obama’s programs and policies. They agreed to simply not work with him on anything. The GOP accelerated their programs of striking voters off the voting lists, passing laws requiring specific ID while voting, ID that the elderly and many college students cannot afford. They also gerrymandered every state so Democrats could not win Congressional seats. Within months of Obama taking office, the Dems lost the House and barely controlled the Senate. (They control neither now.) It was a miracle Obama’s first policy effort, the Affordable Care Act, was passed.

Since then, the Republicans have blocked every effort Obama has made to pass his policies. For instance, he signed an executive order to close down Gitmo; the Republicans refused to fund it. Any time Obama tries to revoke some of the heinous programs the Bush administration put into effect, the Republicans call him weak on terrorism and claim he’s endangering lives, and refuses to fund the changes.

I’m no Obama apologist. I have criticized his attempts to reach across the aisle and initiate grown up negotiations with the Republicans. I have said he needed to repeat FDR’s speeches criticizing his opponents. However, I know Obama has had to rise above it all, to try to be the grown up in the room. He can’t show anger; if he does, the Right will call him an angry black man (and worse). The GOP has worked up so much bigotry and fear in the country because Obama is of mixed race (To quote one comedian, “Have you noticed…he’s black?) For crying out loud, the man attends church every Sunday, but many Americans still think he’s a Muslim. (OTOH, neither Reagan nor Bush ever attended church, and were considered “good Christians.”)

Many of the problems we have in this country now are due to someone from your part of the world – Rupert Murdock and his phony Fox News. That channel has destroyed journalism in this country and made heroes out of some of the dumbest people you can find. Just look at the GOP line-up for the Republican nomination for president. There isn’t a single sane or qualified person there.

Unfortunately, we do not have a parliamentary system here. We have a two-party system and that makes our politics more easily corrupted. We need to get money out of our politics. We need to bust up the big corporations and regulate the hell out of the remnants. We need to reintroduce the Fair Deal policies of FDR. And we need to stop trying to export our so-call version of democracy to Third World countries who don’t want it – all of which is just a front for propping up countries where American and multination corporations want need something.

I really urge you to read my short story The Last President. This is what it’s all about.

Yes, Martin, the Republicans have road-blocked a lot during Obama's two terms - they've been acting like spoilt brats and playing politics ahead of protecting the people.

I personally think Obama has elitist written all over him however, and he feels like Bush 2.0.
So not entirely convinced he would have acted all that different had he had more freedom to implement all his policies.
Cannot really see much difference between Democrats and Republicans these days in terms of any of the big decisions - especially concerning starting new wars like entering Libya and Syria etc...or bailing out private banks ahead of taxpayers facing bankruptcy or foreclosure.
All politicians, especially leaders of major parties, seem pretty ruthless these days...

Also, I apologize on behalf of Down Under for Rupert Murdoch!

Anyway, The Last President sounds like a goodie. And I find the cover makes an excellent statement:

Martin wrote: "James Morcan wrote: "The Far Right NeoCons created this new American Empire post 9/11 and it's for some reason been continued on with by the supposedly Left Wing Obama administration. ..."

James, ..."
Good post Martin.

James Morcan wrote: "Yes, Martin, the Republicans have road-blocked a lot during Obama's two terms - they've been acting like spoilt brats and playing politics ahead of protecting the people.

I personally think Obama..."

There can be no doubt that Obama was not in control of decision making, regardless of whether he was a President or not.
Yes he is an elitist, yes he has been involved in many attempts at face saving.
His conflict minerals reporting act, meant to stop the rape of Africa, especially the Congo is a farce with American companies still involved in creating conflict to obtain minerals, PLEASE no one tell me its not so, they use a third party certainly but the minerals still end up in American hands.
As for the ME conflicts, once again countries have been destroyed for profit, narcotics still flow into America courtesy of the CIA.
Attempts to destabilize Latin American countries are on the increase,
Operation Fast and Furious with the Mexican Cartels had to have his blessing,
Libya had to have his blessing,
Drone strikes into sovereign airspace of countries has to have his blessing,
Saudi strikes into Yemen have to have his blessing,
ISIS/IS/DAESH/AL NUSRA all have to have his blessing,
Ukraine has to have his blessing,
McCaine showing up with terrorists and doing photo shoots has to have his blessing,
McCaine in the Ukraine and Syria which he entered illegally has to have had his blessing,
Nuland talking to the US ambassador in Ukraine saying "F@#$ the EU if they dont like it, had to have his blessing!
The US Presidents are just a figurehead nowadays, Corporations and Shadow Government runs the USA.

Makes sense to me, John. Interesting confirmation from yourself also, following Martin's comments, that Obama was not in control of decision making.

RE Fast and Furious,
The delivery of 3,000 automatic high powered weapons to the Sinaloa Drug cartel in Mexico, via the ATF/DEA in a supposed sting operation that resulted in 1,000's of Mexican civilians, police and military being killed by these weapons and also a US Border Patrol Officer being killed.
The operation sanctioned by Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder. NO ONE HAS BEEN HELD RESPONSIBLE YET!!!

www.insightcrime.org/mexico-organized...

What maniac arms these type of people?????
Once again suspicion must surround the TRUE reason for the arming! Maybe to help protect the CIA's prize cash cow on America's doorstep!

James Morcan wrote: "Cannot really see much difference between Democrats and Republicans these days in terms of any of the big decisions - especially concerning starting new wars like entering Libya and Syria etc...or bailing out private banks ahead of taxpayers facing bankruptcy or foreclosure.
All politicians, especially leaders of major parties, seem pretty ruthless these days... "

Agreed. The Dems took a hard right turn after the election of Reagan. They thought the country was going that way, too. It wasn't though. There were a couple of sociological studies done after Reagan's election to find out why, after the wild Sixties and Seventies, Americans would elect such a conservative Republican. It turned out the men who voted for Reagan were largely the Vietnam anti-war protesters who were not really anti-war but anti-going-to-war-themselves. When Nixon introduced the draft lottery and the protesters realized they weren't going to be drafted, they left the anti-war movement and started voting the greed ticket. That's why there are so many Republican chicken hawks in congress today.

Both Clintons and Obama are from the Democratic Leadership Council, which is the conservative caucus of the Democratic Party. I never expected a super liberal agenda from Obama, but he has done some good stuff -- Affordable Care, gay marriage and gay military service. Compared to the neo-facism of the Bush years, Obama is like a breath of fresh air. Remember, the Noble Prize he received wasn't really given to him, but to the American people for not voting in another war-mongering coward like John McCain.

However, the fact that a democratic socialist like Bernie Sanders is drawing larger crowds than all of the other candidates combined shows Americans really want a center left government. When he can go to Liberty University, a right-wing Christian madrasa, and get wild applause its shows that leftist policies are supported even by people who would normally be opposed to them. Unfortunately, the mainstream media refuses to give Sanders much coverage. The same thing happened during the Occupy Movement. There would be multiple protests bringing in more than 100,000 people each, and it was barely mentioned in the media. But if 100 Tea Party dimwits get together, it's a major media event.

Again, I say unless we get money out of our politics we're never going to get this country on the right track again. And, to be honest, I am not hopeful. I've served my country for many years, but I have to advise my son that when he finishes college, he should consider emigrating to Canada. But, then, with global warming Canada may soon be a giant ice cap. Another impact of too much special interest money in politics.

Martin wrote: "James Morcan wrote: "Cannot really see much difference between Democrats and Republicans these days in terms of any of the big decisions - especially concerning starting new wars like entering Liby..."

I agree with much you have said Martin,
Money must be taken out of US politics, it has become that "who pays the piper, calls the tune"!
As for the Clintons, they should never be allowed in politics again! Corruption personified!!!
I know there have been many investigations into them BUT, a lot of those investigations were stone walled or simply allowed to just drift into oblivion!

James Morcan wrote: "Anyway, The Last President sounds like a goodie. And I find the cover makes an excellent statement:"

And if you sign up for my free newsletter, you get The Last President and two other Kindle short stories free, including Hitler Is Coming! How can you beat that? ;)

Go to http://tiny.cc/MRHILL_Newsletter and enter KINDLESHORT in the message box.

I looked up the definition of Terrorism/Terrorist and i came across the article below which i copied and pasted.
WELL thought out, echoes what many think now!!!
WHO IS THE TERRORIST????????????????

The definitions of "terrorist" is wide, but not so wide that it doesn't include especially the "Governments" of the West. In the US for example....since 1776, there's not been a single decade of peace, NON war activities with another country/people. Not a single decade! Being a war monger nation 100% qualifies the US government and military as a terrorist organization. The same could be said of the UK through it's "alliance" with the US and following it into any false theater of "war" like a dog following it's owner, and then there's Israel. While it occupies Palestine and regularly uses mostly the people of Gaza as human lab rats for the newest arms they've developed in their relatively HUGE arms industry considering the size of the illegitimate state, they're terrorists as well. Governments don't need to tell a population with an above average IQ who the real terrorists are. We already know full hand who they are, and we[our govt/military] are them!! In the Constitution it mentions "We The People..." and it's going to take the PEOPLE to have yet another revolution to stop the madness in DC, the corruption, lies to the people, the coverups when they claim transparency, the random killings of people who aren't our enemies, holding back essential basic needs for life when there's MORE than enough, to make the people suffer when the squabble is aimed at the President or PM who's rich enough that it doesn't faze them at all. THAT is terrorism, and we are it! It's time to either fight back against it, or be consumed by it. I choose to fight against it. I don't have the biggest balls, but at least I've got some and I REFUSE to let the US continue on this track that will soon eventually lead us into building underground bunkers in the backyard, stocking up on months worth of food and water, and guns and ammo. Read carefully what the 2nd Amendment says, word for word, and it plainly says to protect us from a tyranical government. What do you call the kind of government we've got now or in the past 20 years? Tryranical. You see militarized police in almost every US city or town. Is that for when they declare Martial Law on us? It'd seem so, since they've slowly been letting us get used to the lack of strength in our given rights, when not turning on a directional indicatior gets you dead three days later. Companies like Monsanto and Dow are buying up seed companies as fast as they can, and whoever controls the food, controls the people. Same with Nestle owning the majority of bottled water, since our streams, rivers and lakes are polluted beyond belief, some even advising people not to consume but only a certain amount in a given week. That's unregulated capitalism at work...and working well to destroy our environment...land, water and air all at once. Congress makes an enormous amount of money and perks, both while in office and post, but they want to cut back on Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare. They set the amount the recipients get per month. Most get less for a MONTH than a member of Congress gets for a few hours of "work", IF you can actually get them to work. When they do, it's generally passing laws that help the biggest donors to their latest campaign. That also includes the office of President. Right now Hillary's largest donors are the very banks that RUINED many families in the US. DO they think our memories are that short, or that we're just that stupid? ALL of these people and offices are SUPPOSED to work FOR and BY the People, but it doesn't take but a couple hours to see purposeful tax loopoholes for some huge companies so that THEY don't pay income taxes, when any of us would have our belongings taken from us by the IRS, that the "wars" the US is engaged in, are NOT formally declared wars and watch closer....the countries invaded and occupied have resources, LOTS of resources! Just look at what happened to the Native people in what was to become Canada, the US, central America and South America....ALL were taken for the riches, even if it was only land. It was stolen either by guns and cannons or by disease that the Native populations had no resistance to. You want to know the definition of what a terrorist or a terrorist organization is? You just got lesson one, yet the Patriot Act can call ANY of US a terrorist, and we'd be dissapeared forever...never to be seen or heard from again. Open your eyes, your mind. Learn what's REALLY happened and what's happening right now! We're being used as tools, and we get propaganda spoon fed to us everyday on the "news", and right now, the "news" seems to focus on a Billionaire buffoon, and a former First Lady and Secratary of State running for the office of President. I presume most rightly tht most you are "common men and women", so HOW could EITHER of these people connect ot us? Some of us live week to week, get a minimum wage salary and if you're on Social Security it's even worse. And these two people are the "best" the country has to offer as a leader??? Seriously? Still, either will continue the terror policy, both foreign and domestic, but stand tall and lie about our "human rights". Yes, please open your eyes and minds while we have time, and FIGHT! Sure, you'll be labeled as a terrorist, but in fact you'll be a FREEDOM fighter, a fighter for what's RIGHT according to the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and even the Declaration of Independence. How many of us TRUELY feel independent? Few at best. Our foods are tainted, our wars are fake, our land, water and air is polluted, most of our goods come from overseas(where so many US jobs got shipped due to "trade deals" that virtually killed the US worker) and we buy from who? China. A sworn enemy. We're even terrorised at the market level, but it's decorated pretty, the people in Congress who passed it are making money from it, their investor friends are fat cats, and we end up giving our enemy more money for their military, and you can bet your ass that China does exactly that. Wake UP people!
Like · Reply · Aug 22, 2015 9:43am

Perhaps a few of the topics mentioned in this quote from JFK interrelate to a few of the ideas we have covered so far in this terrorism thread:

“We are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence – on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed.” –President John F. Kennedy, speech to the American Newspaper Publishers Association. April 27, 1961, New York City.

JFK may have been talking about being "opposed" in this speech,
BUT, doesn't this sum up so very accurately what the US Government is doing now!!!!
Infiltration instead of invasion, "Latin America, parts of Africa, parts of the European continent, parts of Asia, the ME"
Subversion most certainly, intimidation yes, guerrilla's by night plus armies by day,
A vast military machine that occupies 174 countries at the moment with Special Forces ops in another 27 countries.
Dissenters silenced, yes they are, be it car accidents, plane crashes, rendition, suicides.
Expenditure that runs into multiple unaccounted for $ billions.

BUT IT IS COMING TO AN END!!!!
People are beginning to open up to the crimes!

I agree, John, some of JFK's best speeches were cryptic (perhaps purposefully so on his behalf as maybe he was trying to send word to the common people in coded messages, so to speak).

However, I think it is possible JFK was referring to the Military Industrial Complex and intelligence agencies like the CIA (which remember he proposed to reform before being assassinated). So he may have been referring to an enemy WITHIN the West rather than some external/foreign enemy.

And related to that idea of a secret enemy within ones own government, I personally think in such discussions we need to differentiate between the Military Industrial Complex (MIC) and the US Government. I agree with what Oliver Stone recently said in an interview where he stated that the MIC is now basically the equivalent of a totally separate country and nothing to do with America anymore. And certainly 99.9% of the US Government, let alone the American people, are not receiving any of the spoils of war - on the contrary, the MIC is slowly but surely bankrupting the US.

And also, the MIC is perhaps managed by a "global elite" of various nationalities rather than just Americans. And this may explain the games that are being played on the world's stage and in media propaganda. No citizens of ANY country in the world are benefitting from games like fake terrorism, false flag terrorism or exaggerated terrorism.

I could be wrong, but these are my latest thoughts.
And as always, I look forward to being enlightened by greater minds than mine!