Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion

James wrote: "Health Officials Say Protesting Is More Important Than The Pandemic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d643..."

Kim Iversen raises some very good points here... Many people cannot keep their jobs, families have been divided and kept apart from each other for months (including some family members in this very group by the way!), all because the slightest human interaction has supposedly been a grave threat to society...and yet now suddenly protesting by the millions is perfectly fine!!

Go figure!

"...and yet now suddenly protesting by the millions is perfectly fine!!"

It's yet another symptom of the global swing to the Left we are witnessing. Long overdue BUT becoming skewed so far to left it's bordering on socialism, communism and chaos. Oh me, oh my...

Lockdown has brought out the animal in humans!

Has anyone heard of the desecration of statues in UK? They are just picking up redundant causes for a fight now!

I’ve been trading for half a year and I can tell you, the bull market cannot go forever, in my point of view this period of history is also a wealth transfer and has a lot to do with financial markets. If you check GDP per sector in the US in a pie chart you’ll see that the financial sector occupies the biggest slice. It’s also important to mention CEOs are incentivized to run companies in favor of shareholder’s value (you can read more about this in 12 things they don’t tell you about capitalism), which in turn undermines any possible attempt to plan long term to give short term returns for shareholders. Another speculation is that governments have lost any form of authority (I think about post modernist dogma) that in order to legitimize themselves and their power, they will use politics of fear in order to control people and guide them to promote their desired agenda. What do you think?

The wealth transfer upwards is a result simply of the mathematics of game theory, unless taxation overrules it. Given that taxation is increasingly favouring the wealthy, the transfer is inevitable. Your comment on long/short term planning is obviously being implemented. As for the end of the bull run, I think this might be some time because all this printed money has to go somewhere. What happens when the bubble bursts could be ugly. My thoughts, anyway

Unreported Truths about COVID-19 and Lockdowns: Part 1: Introduction and Death Counts and Estimates

“The whole coronavirus event has been a huge unmasking of capitalism. It stands exposed as rarely before.” – So says Mexican-based sociologist and philosopher John Holloway in an article headed ‘A Cascade of Angers: My COVID 19 Fantasy’.

Full article here: https://www.resilience.org/stories/20...

It’s worth checking out even if Holloway is a self-proclaimed Marxist-oriented individual. Whilst Marxism ain’t remotely my cup of tea, in the interests of free speech I include here some quotes from Holloway’s article, which provides food for thought on COVID-19 and Black Lives Matter, two momentous events Holloway insists are inevitably linked…

Here we go:

“The doors open. You can feel the pent-up energy even before the faces appear. The lockdown is over. A dam is burst. Out pours a torrent of angers, anxieties, frustrations, dreams, hopes, fears. It is as if we cannot breathe.

“We have all been locked in. Cut off physically from the outside world, we have been trying to understand what is happening. A strange virus has changed our lives… Experts have been warning for years of the likelihood of a pandemic… we learn from the experts that if there is not a radical change in our relation to other forms of life, then it is quite likely that more pandemics will follow.

“It is a warning: get rid of capitalism or advance on the road to extinction. Get rid of capitalism: a fantasy indeed. And there grows in us a fear and an anger and maybe even a hope that there might be some way we could do it.

“And as the lockdown proceeds, our attention shifts, moves beyond the illness... We are moving into the worst economic crisis since at least the 1930s, the worst for 300 years in Britain, they say. Over a hundred million people will be tipped into extreme poverty, the World Bank tells us. Another lost decade for Latin America. Millions and millions of people unemployed in all the world. People starving, people begging, more crime, more violence, hopes broken, dreams shattered. There will be no fast recovery…

“…the economic crisis was predicted even more clearly. For thirty years or more, the capitalist economy has literally been living on borrowed money: its expansion has been based on credit. A house of cards ready to collapse…

“This is what we are living: the fire of capitalist crisis. So much misery, hunger, shattered hopes, not because of a virus, but in order to restore capitalism to profitability. And what if we just got rid of the system based on profit? What if we just went out with our renewed energy and did what needs to be done without worrying about profit…

“No unemployment, no starvation, no broken dreams. And the capitalists? Either hang them from the nearest lamppost (always a temptation) or just forget about them. Better just forget about them. Another fantasy, but more than a fantasy: an urgent necessity. And our fears and our angers and our hopes grow inside us…

“(And then there’s) the great difference in the rates of infection and death among whites and blacks. And the appalling inadequacy of medical services after thirty years of neglect. And the terrible incompetence of so many states. And the glaring expansion of surveillance and police and military powers…

“All this, and much more, at the same time as the owners of Amazon and Zoom and so many other technological companies reap amazing profits and the stock market, buoyed by the action of the central banks, continue with the barefaced transfer of wealth from poor to rich. And our angers grow…

“…and the dam is burst. Our angers and hopes burst out on the streets. We hear of George Floyd, we hear his last words, “I cannot breathe”. The words go round and round in our heads… our angers-hopes, hopes-rages have to breathe, have to breathe. And they do, in the massive demonstrations against police brutality and racism in all the world…

“The angers burning inside us are not just against police brutality, not just against racism, not just against the slavery that created the basis for capitalism, but also against the violence against women and all forms of sexism… And the capitalists crawl back to their natural habitats, under the stairs. And labor, capitalist labor, that awful machine that generates richness and poverty and destroys our lives, comes to an end and we start to do what we want to do, we start to create a different world based on the mutual recognition of dignities…

“And then, yes, then we can breathe.”

Amazon summarises the problem. Bezos is personally worth $150 billion, but Amazon hardly pays any taxes. My guess is Bezos doesn't either.

Lance wrote: "“The whole coronavirus event has been a huge unmasking of capitalism. It stands exposed as rarely before.” – So says Mexican-based sociologist and philosopher John Holloway in an article headed ‘A ..."

In my opinion Capitalism 'in and of itself' isn't the problem per-se; it's certain participants that are causing the issue. To blame all our woes on capitalism in the general definition given is a Strawman.

If you can't take into account the various erroneous and flawed personal and group components and sub-strata that influence the 'system' to its current configuration and purely look at in a holistic sense, then no wonder it doesn't seem to work and looks like a failure . . . .

And to be honest, these OTT and loaded criticisms are always shrouded in emotive garb that draws the reader away from objective, sincere and rational discourse that would aim to solve issues from the TOP to the BOTTOM, instead of just wanting to 'hang' those greedy capitalists from lamposts. (imagine even entertaining some backward 'banana republic' like thinking as a solution.)

I get that people should be angry at the way things are unfolding, the poverty, the homelessness, the injustices, the decreases in lifestyle and they have a right to be, as should I, but 'glossing' over the interconnected parts that also facilitate issues or those subtle and often overlooked 'parts' where misappropriation or over concentration of 'blame' itself becomes an actual artifice that can cause related issues in its own right, doesn't help matters.

Carpet bombing all 'rich' capitalists and capitalism as the problem is akin to blaming your car breaking down due to the shoddy paint work on the surface. Yes there is 'greedy' capitalists(and some worse than others). But not all of them!

And some of the blame could lie 'down the chain', that if fixed might actually help matters too.

In fact, some of the people who write these types of articles or dispense related demagogue might be making a comfy living from their Ivory Tower in the drawing out of anger and ire in people that could say led to an idiotic want of the 'the burning of buildings', small businesses, desecrating landmarks, looting, social upheaval and all the rest.

How apposite.

I am apolitical, so no political bias here and also recognize there is problems with 'certain' rich capitalists( who are scum to be honest ) and the system, but by the same token it's also time to call out the insincerity and expediency in the opposition purporting to espouse benevolence and egalitarianism and riding on the thermal of discontent while conveniently excluding and ignoring, isolating honest dissenters, framing debate, using emotive rhetoric, being insincere in motives, ignoring challenging questions, prevaricating and using various other disingenuous devices to get their way or fulfill an agenda(while no doubt reaping the rewards for themselves).

I am all for people having a chance at life and no one should be homeless or in utter poverty and UBI mightn't be a bad thing in and of itself too(debatable), but I would question and keep an eye on some of the people and groups pushing it or looking to be in charge of its direction and the motives and the methods they will use in order to usher it in for maybe interests other than 'for the good of the people'; especially if they make a few bob from dispensing diatribe like this albeit from their own comfy pulpit and fenced away from the issues at hand.

Ask yourself: what good is another hen house guarded by another fox?

And to compound matters to its detriment, in all of this, there's also the question of Hybrid Warfare tapping into this discontent and disrupting the social milieu in tandem.

Just my two sense or cents . . . .

The question I raised is not whether capitalism is bad, nor whether some people are greedy, but whether why should the janitor, the fireman, the school teacher and small companies all pay taxes and the Amazons don't.

Ian wrote: "The question I raised is not whether capitalism is bad, nor whether some people are greedy, but whether why should the janitor, the fireman, the school teacher and small companies all pay taxes and..."

Well, all I can do is speak for myself Ian. I'd be happy to 'do it by the book' and pay taxes now if I make enough money to or if I ever have a chance to make it as big as Jeff Bezos.

But, that's only if the fake 'crypto-marxists' or their counterparts don't poke their nose in with political bias and all other sorts of group mentality biases and needlessly compound matters for that ability . . . .

Fake is the keyword there.

That was also kinda one of my points in a broader sense too.

Ian wrote: "The question I raised is not whether capitalism is bad, nor whether some people are greedy, but whether why should the janitor, the fireman, the school teacher and small companies all pay taxes and..."

Is there not 'certain' lawyers at fault in all of this too? They also seem to escape the radar of scrutiny for some reason . . . .

In my opinion, the fault lies with the legislators, who permit the antics of these lawyers and clients. The non-payers are not doing anything illegal

Anyone who is interested in the coming Covid-19 vaccine, or vaccines in general since all the recent heated talk and debate about vaccines, may wish to look at this folder of the group:

VACCINE SCIENCE REVISITED: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4...

Which contains lengthy excerpts from our book, Vaccine Science Revisited: Are Childhood Immunizations As Safe As Claimed?, the 8th book in the Underground Knowledge series...

Coronavirus traces found in March 2019 sewage sample, Spanish study shows https://gulfnews.com/amp/world/europe...

Spanish virologists have found traces of the novel coronavirus in a sample of Barcelona waste water collected in March 2019, nine months before the COVID-19 disease was identified in China, the University of Barcelona said on Friday.

Here in New Zealand we have the illusion of freedom, we are almost back to normal, but the threat of a return to full lockdown hangs over us. Although we're told it does, our behaviour has nothing to do with it.

A Look at CBDC Developments at the Bank of England https://stevenguinness2.wordpress.com...

With the news agenda dominated by Covid-19, progress that the banking elite are making on plans to introduce central bank digital currency is gaining scant attention.

The only central bank money an individual can hold at present are banknotes, which means that the money sitting in your account now is commercial bank money. Whilst we have the right to convert that money back into banknotes (central bank money), the BOE reminds us that ‘a customer needing to make a payment relies on their bank to have sufficient assets to enable a cash withdrawal or enable settlement with another bank‘.

James wrote: "A Look at CBDC Developments at the Bank of England https://stevenguinness2.wordpress.com...

With the news agenda dominated by Covid-19, progress that the..."

Curious in the sense that if the chosen Digital Currency is based on 'mining' then the power needed for such a global currency system would be so immense that it possibly 'flys' in the face of Governments calling for reducing Carbon Emissions; unless they factor a sufficient and sustainable level of immobility and remote working can maintain a balance . . . .

Maybe the 'petri dish' we're currently in has shed light on that?

In principle, deliberately not being told or being averted to what is going on in the background or withholding related information is never a good sign and usually open to all sorts of corruption and opportunism . . . .

Food for thought . . . .

There is a huge amount of digital money being created and called quantitative easing. The pressing question is what will happen in the long run to this money?

Ian wrote: "There is a huge amount of digital money being created and called quantitative easing. The pressing question is what will happen in the long run to this money?"

Depends on how this plays out??? Currently the U.S. is in the best position by far to print probably more than most other countries combined. And I can see it being the 'defacto' reserve currency for another decade.

In terms of 'capital flight': most also gravitate to the Dollar(like in the recent case of Hong Kong). If there's an oncoming global shift in international business(decoupling) and a 'multipolar split' the $ might be the safest haven?

Digital currency might get a boost if some Black Swan were to happen that demanded it to become the main process of transaction? Or maybe - say a 2nd COVID wave or another pandemic of sorts that required alternative stringent measures and one solution being the including of no handling of any paper or coin based money due to the option of 'full lock-down' being exhausted . . . .

That would also compliment the bail-in laws that were passed post 2008.

Who would have thought?

This isn't over by a long stretch . . . .

Worth pointing out: digital currency is great as a facilitator of transaction in times of stability, but not in times of instability and not as a 'store of value' regardless the situation.

Debby wrote: "Here in New Zealand we have the illusion of freedom, we are almost back to normal, but the threat of a return to full lockdown hangs over us. Although we're told it does, our behaviour has nothing ..."

Debby wrote: "Here in New Zealand we have the illusion of freedom, we are almost back to normal, but the threat of a return to full lockdown hangs over us. Although we're told it does, our behaviour has nothing ..."

Any suggestions for a country where they don't presume to speak and act on your behalf, keep you in the dark, step on your head or use fabrication and crisis to facilitate their own agenda and ambitions?

It's amazing how it all starts, isn't it? Some people forget that . . . .

James wrote: "Coronavirus traces found in March 2019 sewage sample, Spanish study shows https://gulfnews.com/amp/world/europe......"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0wdx...

Iain wrote: "James wrote: "Coronavirus traces found in March 2019 sewage sample, Spanish study shows https://gulfnews.com/amp/world/europe......"

Talking of Spain - recommend watching While At War.

Basically a movie about writer Miguel De Unamuno who called out all sides(communists, fascists,army, a certain hypocritical segment of the church, mob(the ochlocracy) and suffered the consequences for it.

Gotta be part of the gang, eh?

Although the atavism of the past as described by the above isn't comparable to or 'subtle' as the 'formats' we face today, contemporary representations still qualify the distinct categories . . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ftv0...

Iain wrote: "Iain wrote: "James wrote: "Coronavirus traces found in March 2019 sewage sample, Spanish study shows https://gulfnews.com/amp/world/europe......"

Another is: The Endless Trench

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7937168/...

This Spanish movie also compliments the above. Basically about a guy who lost YEARS of his life due to BS politics . . . .

Iain wrote: "Iain wrote: "Iain wrote: "James wrote: "Coronavirus traces found in March 2019 sewage sample, Spanish study shows https://gulfnews.com/amp/world/europe......"

Antonio de la Torre is a really great actor. Recommend El Reino as well . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7QMq...

Iain wrote: "Iain wrote: "Iain wrote: "James wrote: "Coronavirus traces found in March 2019 sewage sample, Spanish study shows https://gulfnews.com/amp/world/europe......"

Imagine losing a portion of your best years to lies, deception, opportunism and corruption???

A monster of a mess . . . .

Imagine losing your life to a virus

Like the flu for example.

Ian, there's potentially a major flip side to your question...

Imagine losing your life not due to a virus but to an extreme lockdown, or repeated lockdowns, in the name of that virus that destroy the fabric of our society and kills in different ways, whether suicides, malnutrition, extreme fear, crime due to increasing poverty, etc, etc...

Iain McKenzie, I know of no such country. Once, I would have said New Zealand, but I have been disillusioned now.

Ian J Miller, I am one of the supposedly "vulnerable" yet I would definitely prefer to make my own choices. I'd rather a virus than for example, murder.

James Morcan, an issue here, is the delay in cancer diagnosis while the hospital system was preoccupied with the 60-90,000 cases of Covid-19 we were told to expect (they didn't come). I have a friend, I was talking to today, whose bladder cancer wasn't diagnosed until after the lockdown, when it had already metastasised to his bones. He's younger than I am, remarkably calm about it (I wouldn't be!). What he's suffering from chemo, monthly scans with contrast medium etc is much worse than any virus!

As shown in NZ, a lockdown does not cause disintegration of society. That does not mean there are not problems, but once upon a time our pioneers faced much worse problems and put their backs into solving them. We can get out of this.

Debby, I have no idea what has caused you to be disillusioned, but NZ has not got a sudden outbreak of murder.

Debby wrote: "James Morcan, an issue here, is the delay in cancer diagnosis while the hospital system was preoccupied with the 60-90,000 cases of Covid-19 we were told to expect (they didn't come). I have a frie..."

Debby, I am sorry for your friend, but nobody knew how the virus problem would work out. When the lockdown was initiated in NZ, there was one wedding in which one person turned up with the virus and infected over 80 people. That might have led to an over-estimate of the probability of transmission. However, whenever a pandemic strikes, there is always collateral damage. Further, if the cancer has metastasized, a few weeks difference in diagnosis unfortunately would not have made any difference. I wish him well, but I have seen people die before from cancer with no pandemic.

James wrote: "Ian, there's potentially a major flip side to your question...

Imagine losing your life not due to a virus but to an extreme lockdown, or repeated lockdowns, in the name of that virus that destro..."

Well that's the valid counter argument to prolonged 'full lockdown' that gains weight as mass mental fatigue sets in from the 'blowback' of disruption to what was otherwise normality.

Wearing a mask helps cases. Being 'forced' or mandated to mightn't be in cases(especially if you suffer claustrophobia).

Apparently some nurses and medical staff aren't adhering to the rules either for whatever reason. Should get them on camera and ask them why.

On another note : does anyone not find it a tad hypocritical that those vehemently calling for strict social distancing and masks to be worn, never had the same fervor in their demand during those mass protests a week or 2 back?

Strange that . . . .

Maybe by becoming a protester you miraculously develop anti-bodies?

Debby wrote: "Iain McKenzie, I know of no such country. Once, I would have said New Zealand, but I have been disillusioned now."

I was thinking of the Artic. Polar bears there seem to be allowed to practice libertarianism and get on with it unhindered and the Penguins might have a more sincere brand of socialism.

Debby wrote: "James Morcan, an issue here, is the delay in cancer diagnosis while the hospital system was preoccupied with the 60-90,000 cases of Covid-19 we were told to expect (they didn't come). I have a frie..."

And not just cancer cases have been delayed Debby, but also brain surgery, heart surgery, mentally ill people on suicide watch, various other critical disease treatments etc etc, have been turned away from hospitals (even in regions of the world like NZ and AU where we barely had any outbreak!).

Gonna be staggering when the actual death toll DUE TO the lockdown decision is recorded in the history books in years and decades to come. I think there'll be a double deathtoll in that regard:

1. People who died at this FRONT END from not getting adequate treatment due to Corona infected people getting priority or Corona infected getting the ONLY form of treatment. That could turn out to be millions worldwide? At least hundreds of thousands I would imagine.

2. People at the BACK END who die from things like starvation, crime/unemployment, suicide, lack of medical coverage, etc, due to the way we have almost flattened our economy and the fabric of our democratic society in a mysterious/vague attempt to flatten the curve of virus (which was overstated by 30-40 times in terms of fatality rate predictions by the London Imperial College's/Johns Hopskins University's modelling, let's not forget - and that was the entire reason for the lockdowns). This back end deathtoll could be millions, tens of millions or hundreds of millions of people, depending what happens in rest of 2020 and 2021 and beyond...Especially when you consider Third World countries around the planet...

Ian wrote: "As shown in NZ, a lockdown does not cause disintegration of society. That does not mean there are not problems, but once upon a time our pioneers faced much worse problems and put their backs into solving them. We can get out of this. ..."

Ian are you living in NZ or Jacinda fantasy land? Sounds like you've swallowed the Radical Leftist cool-aid. Also, it's far too early to say NZ's methods have not caused disintegration of society - this saga is just warming up. As far as I can see we are still in round 1 of a longgggggg fight ahead.

Whether it is due to the isolation of NZ or what I'm not sure, we have hardly had any cases. NZ has only had about 1,500 confirmed cases and only 20 deaths, that's about the same as many African countries (which NEVER locked down until very late or some still have not). Check it here for yourself and compare NZ to the African nations I refer to... https://www.worldometers.info/coronav...

Furthermore, various nations in Asia like Taiwan and Japan never locked down (or in Japan's case had a very minor restrictions only) and despite their large populations have had extremely low death tolls. Japan is 125 million, while NZ is only 5.

I believe the mistake many are making is looking at all this in myopic fashion. Myopic in that some are reducing this to just a medical debate (there's a virus, lives are at stake, lockdown at all costs) and refusing to consider things like individual rights, overreaction, draconian tech implementations, not to mention the economy or democracy... OR myopic in that many are viewing what's going on in their country only or mostly their country. Whereas this needs a global outlook, we need to assess aforementioned nations like Taiwan, Japan, Hong Kong, plus Sweden (which has done remarkably well with ZERO restrictions and NO lockdown in that Sweden's deathtoll not too bad and less infection spread than many European neighbours) -- and compare the different nations, especially those outliers who have not risked their economies/democracies/human rights etc...

Debby wrote: "Ian J Miller, I am one of the supposedly "vulnerable" yet I would definitely prefer to make my own choices. I'd rather a virus than for example, murder."

Good for you.
If the fabric of society breaks down, if we devolve into law and disorder off the back of upending every aspect of our world in the name of this virus (as perhaps we are seeing in the USA), then murders and other crimes will go thru the roof. Then suddenly "stay safe" may not mean the same thing anymore...

James wrote: "Ian wrote: "As shown in NZ, a lockdown does not cause disintegration of society. That does not mean there are not problems, but once upon a time our pioneers faced much worse problems and put their..."

Japan went into a 'state of emergency' instead due to their constitution prohibiting full lock-down to be fair.

But, that's just one facet of the wider conundrum here. I think there's added complexity and confusion due to cultural differences, demographics, lifestyles, testing procedures and ability, record keeping, diagnosis and varying forms of treatment having baring too. The wider implication and impact of that is up for debate?

I agree with you that there might be exaggeration and unneeded alarm from those fixated in their over-estimation of risk or what constitutes risk without ascertaining ALL the facts or lacking context.

You could apply that in a general sense.

Ian wrote: "However, whenever a pandemic strikes, there is always collateral damage. ...."

Ian, you're writing off real people, and sick or dying people as per Debby's example, as "collateral damage" -- and then you're taking the moral high-ground with questions to us like "Imagine losing your life to a virus"... Can you not see there is a much deeper philosophical and practical debate here?

A life is a life. We indeed have to protect where possible those lives you are referring to (the vulnerable who can die in any virus outbreak), but we have to weigh that up against lives that have already been lost (albeit underrerportedly) by the decision in most countries to lockdown and otherwise restrict AND we have to consider the future lives that will be lost for various other reasons (increasing crime, economic depression, famines perhaps) DUE TO the decision to react (or overreact?) to this virus.

I am not claiming to have any answers whatsoever, this is a debate society at large needs to have -- but all I know is we cannot discuss all this in myopic or limited fashion like some medical scientist in a laboratory who is unaware of anything else. We have to think of all facets and the way things like medicine, politics, economics, technology, wars and famines might all intersect at the end of all this...

Iain wrote: "James wrote: "Ian wrote: "As shown in NZ, a lockdown does not cause disintegration of society. That does not mean there are not problems, but once upon a time our pioneers faced much worse problems..."

Hey mate
Are they allowing you into gym in Scotland yet?
And will Sturgeon require you to wear a mask in the gym while training??

I see Sturgeon seems very keen to continue lockdown and/or restrctions... I got another Scottish friend who tells me he thinks Sturgeon and the SNP are currently almost intoxicated by all these new powers that have miraculously fallen into their laps... #RadicalLeftistWetDream

James wrote: "Iain wrote: "James wrote: "Ian wrote: "As shown in NZ, a lockdown does not cause disintegration of society. That does not mean there are not problems, but once upon a time our pioneers faced much w..."

Nope!!!

We're still in Phase 2 at moment. Phase 3 starts on July the 9th, but that doesn't mean gyms will be back open. To be honest I think they will be last and it could be August.

As you know I love training and get a bit cranky if I can't workout, so decided to bite the bullet and turning a spare room into a small gym with weights, punchball etc.

My own health is a priority here. For me my immune system is my best defence.

If I have to wear a mask I'll just buy a 'training mask' for when I go back. Debatable if they actually improve performance.

What's frustrating over here, is the world at the BACK-END is changing big time in a number of spheres due to the cascade post COVID(as you know)and some leaders acros the spectrum( or more their subordinates) are more concerned on 'gotchas', rhetoric, virtue-signaling and so on. The only constructive talk is UBI, which is flawed in the context they want it( at least on principle.)

But then again you've gotta be 'part of a gang' to be involved or have a voice or your ostracized.

Some of them have tech backgrounds and should be able to ascertain what's gonna happen in the future and be looking to prepare by being innovative and industrious( which this climate demands); instead all we get is the same ol 'blame game' and sophistry that I witnessed them ascend on post 2008 when I fled the place for greener pastures.

Iain wrote: "James wrote: "Iain wrote: "James wrote: "Ian wrote: "As shown in NZ, a lockdown does not cause disintegration of society. That does not mean there are not problems, but once upon a time our pioneer..."

What's interesting from all of this, is that the SNP are building an Independence momentum by blaming the Tories for their handling of the COVID crisis. If Scotland gains Independence(a real outcome) and Johnson aligns with NAFTA 2.0 then Britain could find itself with one foot in the EU and one foot in NAFTA 2.0.

Here's to your 2022 gym training Iain! It'll be worth the wait and worth the iris and fingerprint scan you'll need to do to even set foot in the gym by then!

Australia's PM Scott Morrison recently said international travellers will be allowed into Australia "by mid-2021 at the earliest"...

Does he know something about longer term plans, perhaps?

It'll of course cease to be the United Kingdom.

At that juncture Emperor 'Stasi' Merkel will be my ultimate master and accompanied by a free Red Book, a golden framed picture of our new Glorious Leader herself to be mandatory placed in the living room, a pair of jackboots, selection of marching songs, instructional videos on how to goosestep in synchronicity with fellow comrades, etc, etc.