Literary Horror discussion

Please join Marie-Therese, Tim, S̶e̶a̶n̶, Paul, Merl, myself, and perhaps other equally enthusiastic fans for our next buddy read: Leonor Fini's Rogomelec!

It's available on paperback and as an e-book, from the by now legendary Wakefield Press.

A couple articles on Fini:
https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-e...
http://www.artnet.com/artists/leonor-...

The English translation came out weeks ago, so I don't see detailed reviews online. We're ahead of the curve here.

Most of us will probably start in a day or two. Or sooner, if we get anxious.

Planning on starting it tonight! Looking forward to this.

I'm starting tonight as well.

I’ve started it and planned on making it a one sitting read but my two year old daughter and simple tiredness combined to declare this will be at least a two sitting read. No real thoughts tonight, just a comedic observation:

Dying in the room is not allowed.”

That may be my favorite rule I’ve ever read.

Waiting for a copy of the Wakefield translation to arrive. Should be here soon I hope. Can't wait.

I... I really need to process my thoughts on this one. I don't know exactly what I expected but this certainly was not it.

Out of curiosity, on page 25 there's a line that includes the phrase "Bluebeard's Cage." While I'm familiar with the fairy tale Bluebeard, I'm unfamiliar with this phrase though. I was wondering if anyone else was familiar with it or if it was just something added to the book (it totally sounds like an expression that should be used though)?

Okay, I once described the film The Beyond as "less of a movie and more of watching someone else's fevered dream." Well, this book is pretty much the same. There is a plot... sort of, but it's more like the outline of a plot, to get us from one surreal event to the next.

I don't use this phrase often, but I don't really get it, but I'm not sure you're supposed to here. I think this is one of those works that each person is going to have their own interpretation of, and they are all equally right and wrong.

From a design standpoint, I like the illustrations. I like keeping them in mind with the scene Fini is describing, though again, I don't know how to always interpret them. Sometimes I see more in the images when comparing it to what came the page before, other times they look straight forward enough until examined and thought about.

I'm interested to see what others think, because frankly, I'm at a bit of a loss on this one. :)

Tim wrote: "Out of curiosity, on page 25 there's a line that includes the phrase "Bluebeard's Cage."

The only thing I can find is just one of those happy accidents. Christy Fifield's 2014 detective novel Murder Sends a Postcard makes references to "Bluebeard's cage". Bluebeard is a parrot, hence the cage.

I'm at around p. 25 (Bluebeard's cage!), and enjoying it so far. I'm not sure there's much to "get" though.

There are some sexual innuendos that seem to lead nowhere. And slapstick scenes like this:

I was introduced to two other monks... who shared a cell.
...
Standing up, then bowing very deeply, one said:
"I am the black angel."
And the other:
"I am the angel of night."
Who could argue with that?

The drawings are fun, but I haven't been trying to connect them with the story. (I actually prefer Fini's paintings, which I find to be so quietly alien and unsettling.)

Bill wrote: "The drawings are fun, but I haven't been trying to connect them with the story. (I actually prefer Fini's paintings, which I find to be so quietly alien and unsettling.)."

I would agree with that. I was a little disappointed when I got the book and saw the illustrations as when I immediately heard it was illustrated, my mind went to her paintings like the cover artwork (my fault entirely on that, so not anything I would judge the book on). I did enjoy them more as it went on though and I started to consider them with the pages surrounding them.

Tim wrote: "I don't use this phrase often, but I don't really get it, but I'm not sure you're supposed to here. I think this is one of those works that each person is going to have their own interpretation of, and they are all equally right and wrong.."

I think much of the narrative and symbology in the book derive from Lini's personal mythology, and as such piercing that veil may not be possible. But I agree the book still remains open to each reader's personal interpretation.

As to the phrase 'Bluebeard's Cage' this comes up in context of the Marco Polo Tarot. The bald men are 'playing' the Tarot, and when they got angry, they called it 'Bluebeard's Cage'. While I can think of some possible metaphorical interpretations of the phrase, I'm not sure how it could relate to Marco Polo's tales beyond incidental contextual similarities (folktales/fables, noblemen, travel). I also don't know of any direct connection to the Tarot, but perhaps Merl could offer some insights there.

Just going out on a limb, though: if one considers the Tarot as a metaphysical key, and also if one interprets the key given to the wife in Bluebeard's tale as a similar 'key to knowledge' then perhaps when the men playing the Tarot don't like the outcome of the cards and get angry, they refer to the Tarot as 'Bluebeard's Cage' because gaining such knowledge as can be gleaned from the Tarot may be seen as a metaphorical cage -- if perceived too literally (and/or out of context) a reading could restrict/alter one's decisions or limit one's choices.

Just started this, great!

S̶e̶a̶n̶ wrote: "As to the phrase 'Bluebeard's Cage' this comes up in context of the Marco Polo Tarot."

Interesting. I only know a few superficial things about the Tarot, and hadn't heard of the Marco Polo deck. I see there's also a Marseille Cats Tarot, which is too cute, heh.

(Digression: Somewhere in my cobwebby attic of project ideas is a deck of nutty Tarot-like cards. There would be major arcana-like figures like "the misappropriater" or "the waif", and suits like "trifles" or "coincidences".)

Bill wrote: "Interesting. I only know a few superficial things about the Tarot, and hadn't heard of the Marco Polo deck. I see there's also a Marseille Cats Tarot, which is too cute, heh."

Our old friend Ithell Colquhoun also painted her own version of the Tarot. As a promotion for the release of Medea's Charms last year, Peter Owen held a contest to win a reproduction of it.

(Digression: Somewhere in my cobwebby attic of project ideas is a deck of nutty Tarot-like cards. There would be major arcana-like figures like "the misappropriater" or "the waif", and suits like "trifles" or "coincidences".)

That's awesome-- you should totally dust off the cobwebs on that project.

S̶e̶a̶n̶ wrote: "Our old friend Ithell Colquhoun also painted her own version of the Tarot."

I didn't know that, thanks. They're quite lovely, though I didn't expect her cards to be so abstract.

Glad you like the nutty deck. While I appreciate the view of the Tarot as objects of power, I do have a weakness for the accidents and mistakes that often end up being more consequential than our intentions.

Possibly the fictional Bluebeard based off of Gilles de Rais...(dabbling in Satanic worship/becoming Satan) and his imprisonment (cage)/ death?

Anyhow: my favorite part was when it said you can't wear obscene clothes in the hallways or die in the rooms. I just liked that but otherwise I feel this short story is probably best understood as a part of a whole. I'm just now learning about/of Leonor Fini and feel there's a good deal more to discover concerning her. But on it's own and just as a creative outlet, I can appreciate this story for it's own self.

Also...who exactly was that hanging in the tree? Was that the king...or the one who attempted regicide? Or maybe just a random person...? What do you guys think? I think maybe it was the one that did the king wrong possibly byways of attempted assassination.

Sander wrote: "Also...who exactly was that hanging in the tree? Was that the king...or the one who attempted regicide?"

I was assuming the hanged figure was the king (a king, anyway), based on what he was wearing. There's also the earlier statement about Rogomelec supposedly meaning "he who stones the king", so I was interpreting the figure as the stoned king.

The Hanged Man is of course one of the Major Arcana in the Tarot. And if I might make another digression, last night I saw the movie "Shirley", with Shirley Jackson as one of the main characters. There's a scene where Jackson was doing a Tarot reading for one of the other characters. Three (!) hanged men cards were revealed. The Jackson character was also writing a novel, Hangsaman.

My copy took aaaaaages to arrive, so I've only just read the book.

I wolfed it down in one sitting last night, and now feel I need a bit of time to digest it. The more I ponder on it, the more I like it. It seems more than the sum of its parts somehow.

I'll have more to say later, but in the meantime I just want to add my voice to the general call for S̶e̶a̶n̶ to make his Tarot deck :-)

(As some or maybe all of you know already, Fulgur Press are supposed to be producing a version of Leonora Carrington's personal deck later this year too: https://fulgur.co.uk/leonora-and-the-...)

Merl wrote: "I'll have more to say later, but in the meantime I just want to add my voice to the general call for S̶e̶a̶n̶ to make his Tarot deck :-) "

That would be Bill's personal project, not mine, but perhaps he'd be interested in a collaboration....

S̶e̶a̶n̶ wrote: "That would be Bill's personal project, not mine, but perhaps he'd be interested in a collaboration...."

Ha ha, sorry. This is what happens when I try to read two webpages at once...

S̶e̶a̶n̶ wrote: "I only know a few superficial things about the Tarot, and hadn't heard of the Marco Polo deck."

I hadn't heard of it either, so I couldn't resist looking it up, even though I'm supposed to be working right now.

Interestingly, the Marco Polo deck only seems to date from 2002. At first I thought that must have been a reprint date rather than the deck's original publication date – the designs look very 1960s/1970s – but according to the Italian Wikipedia page for Severino Baraldi, he didn't actually begin his Tarot project until 2002 (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severin...).

Of course, Wikipedia sometimes gets things wrong, plus I don't really read Italian, so I might have misunderstood. But if that's right, then the Marco Polo Tarot in this book is an invention of Fini's, not a deck that existed elsewhere at the time.

Merl wrote: "But if that's right, then the Marco Polo Tarot in this book is an invention of Fini's, not a deck that existed elsewhere at the time. "

Interesting...I wonder if Baraldi even knew of Fini's reference. I can't find any connection between the two online.

S̶e̶a̶n̶ wrote: " wonder if Baraldi even knew of Fini's reference. I can't find any connection between the two online."

I've been wondering that too. Although of course, from a Surrealist point of view, a coincidence would itself be a very compelling type of connection.

S̶e̶a̶n̶ wrote: "Merl wrote: "I'll have more to say later, but in the meantime I just want to add my voice to the general call for S̶e̶a̶n̶ to make his Tarot deck :-) "

That would be Bill's personal project, not mine, but perhaps he'd be interested in a collaboration...."

S̶e̶a̶n̶, I'd love to collaborate sometime. But maybe not with the Tarot-like deck; I already have a fair amount of (dusty!) notes and ideas, so there's less space to play in. I'd love to see your personal deck though! And Merl's as well.

Late to the party, but hopefully not too late for the ritual ...

I did read this in French, but wanted to hold off until I'd also read a translation. My French is good, but not quite that good, and I didn't want to have missed anything glaring. Like Merl, my Wakefield copy took ages to arrive, so I'm only now going back through it. (The French doesn't seem quite so broadly comic as the translation when the narrator comments on the two angels, for example: it's amusing, but not in the same way).

The sequence that made me determined to doublecheck my French in the first place was the armchair: I had to read it 3 times to make sure I'd got it (I had) and it's staying with me as an image. That's the spirit/sense in which I received the illustrations, too, less as direct comment on the text but as part of the overall construction.

Interestingly, in light of Tim's comment, I also experienced the book as a series of episodes - rather dreamlike, and connected in that way, but just as important is the way in which they flash into the consciousness. (This is basically what I look for in writing, so I've no complaints or disappointments!)

There's a sense of occult/arcane system throughout: that might directly reflect an existing system (in which case I'd be deferring to Merl's knowledge on it), but it's just as likely, if not more so, that it's the construction/elaboration of a personal system in line with her method of writing.

In Peter Webb's lovely book Sphinx: The Life and Art of Leonor Fini Fini's quoted as saying she wrote 'in a rather immediate or automatic way', and that her writings 'are witness to my taste for the power that words have to cause wonderment, but above all for images'. (I'm desperate now to read her other books).

I had wondered if the Bluebeard question was a specific detail from Perrault, but it doesn't seem to be. Like S̶e̶a̶n̶ I also read it as some kind of comment on the bloodstained key motif and questions of (arcane) knowledge. I don't remember any specific cages with reference to Gilles de Rais, either, although some of the dead children were found stuffed up a chimney. With such references it's possible (appropriate, even) to read them in relation to their original source but with the additional layers of later usage. So Gilles de Rais is there if you want him too. (I usually do).

Anyone still reading? I think I'm going to read it again now. I feel like I wolfed it down too fast the first time.

I was thinking of giving it a second look. Will start later today.

We've been busy arguing about the reliability of self-styled vampire narrators, and cryptic surrealist Tarot decks. But it's time to consider nominations for our July monthly read. I don't have a lot to offer from my to-read list (for various reasons, it's clogged with items that are not great matches for LH); other than

Nicole Cushing, The Half-Freaks

So let me know what you're up for by (say) midweek!

Again, most of our public libraries and bookstores are not open at the moment. So please keep in mind whether a book is easily available.

I really want to read Rogomelec, but I won't be able to get a copy until the end of June.

Suki wrote: "I really want to read Rogomelec, but I won't be able to get a copy until the end of June."

It will have been worth the wait :-)

Poll is up! Please vote by Sunday evening:
https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/2...

As usual, if you vote for a book and it wins, you are committing to participate in the discussion.