Ersatz TLS discussion

Good morning, fine readers. It's rainy and cool here in Seattle today, but the neighborhood roses are in full bloom so I'm looking forward to the sunny weather to return so I can enjoy them.





A few fun facts from this week's Literary Birthdays (found here):

Gwendolyn Brooks is on a stamp!

A bat species is named for Nikki Giovanni!

A beautiful rose is named for William Butler Yeats! (see above...)

Lljones wrote: "Good morning, fine readers. It's rainy and cool here in Seattle today, but the neighborhood roses are in full bloom so I'm looking forward to the sunny weather to return so I can enjoy them.
A..."

Love that Rose pic LL!

Gentle sunshine and 21c in the shires...pleasent, just my kind of weather and i have my second AZ jab tommorow...which is good timing as i'm volunteering again at the day centre(now its re-opened)

My reading is rich and varied right now, the following books on the go:

Luftwaffe Diaries by Cajus Bekker(1967)
A well constructed history of the Luftwaffe in WW2, taken from diaries, flight logs and personal recollections. Its constructed in simple chapter form, rather than diary entries and i am learning new things about 1939-40 at the minute

Return to Coolami by Eleanor Dark(1936)
This australian novel is my next "classic". I found it in the allen and unwin collection of aussie classic novels. I'm always happy with a Sydney setting for novels (this will be my third in 12 months).

The Return by Dulce Mario Cardoso(2016)
A rare modern novel for me, this Portugese account of one families return from the "Ultramar"(Angola in their case) to Portugal in 1975. Housed in a 5 star hotel in Estoril, the motherland is nothing like they learnt in school and the father of the family has been detained in Luanda. the sadness and hopelessness of the last colonial retreat after Belgium (Congo), France (Indochina and Algeria)

The Channel by Renaud Morieux
Fascinating study of the idea of maritime frontiers and the role of the channel in the 1688-1815 period, between the French and the British who faced each other accross it. Grotius is the topic of the next chapter...superb, law of the sea etc

Meandering thoughts:

Not for the first time I have, today, wondered about the arcane procedures/rules the sons and daughters of the "mother of all parliaments" must submit to. Almost as exotic as the laws of an ancient tribe in a far-flung corner of the globe.

Also made me remember a catchy (and catching) slogan coined by the student movement in Germany in the late 60s:

Unter den Talaren - Muff von tausend Jahren

"Under the robes - the frowst from 1000 years" (an allusion to the 1000 year reign the Nazis envisaged).

It got its first outing on a student demonstration in 1967 at the University of Hamburg
Where the tenured Professor of Islamic Studies, Bertold Spuler, shouted out to them:"You should all be in a concentration camp".

Georg wrote: "Meandering thoughts:

Not for the first time I have, today, wondered about the arcane procedures/rules the sons and daughters of the "mother of all parliaments" must submit to. Almost as exotic as ..."

Watching the House of Commons in action used to be something i enjoyed, until autumn 2019 and the failure of the progressive coalition to keep our Prime Minister in a state of frustrated impotence. the only reason i watch now is the absence of 80% of the Tory members, so their braying and hooting is absent.

Its interesting to see how many tory members kept coming to the house throughout the pandemic, manifestly refusing to WFH or stay in their constituency. Libertarianism is one of the many problems with the last 40 years politically in the UK.

AB76 wrote: "Georg wrote: "Meandering thoughts:

Not for the first time I have, today, wondered about the arcane procedures/rules the sons and daughters of the "mother of all parliaments" must submit to. Almost..."

I find watching parliamentary sessions rather embarrassing from all sides, although things have improved since "look at me" Bercow has retired.

giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Georg wrote: "Meandering thoughts:

Not for the first time I have, today, wondered about the arcane procedures/rules the sons and daughters of the "mother of all parliaments" must subm..."

I loved Bercow. But I have always had a soft spot for those who stand up for their believes, for the rebels who do not tread the party line. Especially those who are passionate and witty with it.

B

Georg wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Georg wrote: "Meandering thoughts:

Not for the first time I have, today, wondered about the arcane procedures/rules the sons and daughters of the "mother of all pa..."

But the Speaker was supposed to be neutral!!!

giveusaclue wrote: "Georg wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Georg wrote: "Meandering thoughts:

Not for the first time I have, today, wondered about the arcane procedures/rules the sons and daughters of the "mo..."

He wasn't neutral? Afaik he only cared for the right of HM parliament to do what a parliament is supposed to do. All the flak he got was because he wasn't partisan. Which is the opposite of neutral. A solid Thatcherite Tory gone rogue. They didn't see that coming.

Georg wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Georg wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Georg wrote: "Meandering thoughts:

Not for the first time I have, today, wondered about the arcane procedures/rules the sons and ..."


We will have to agree to disagree again. 🙂

giveusaclue wrote: "Georg wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Georg wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Georg wrote: "Meandering thoughts:

Not for the first time I have, today, wondered about the arcane procedures/rules..."

i loved what Bercow did, as it made life difficult for the tories and their diet of gammon, of course he did create a situation where the speaker was no longer a patsy for the govt (Hoyle is a total patsy)

I sat opposite Bercow in a coffee shop in Balham about 2 years ago, he was with a journalist

AB76 wrote: "I sat opposite Bercow in a coffee shop in Balham about 2 years ago, he was with a journalist"

Now there's a surprise.

AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Georg wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Georg wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Georg wrote: "Meandering thoughts:

Not for the first time I have, today, wondered about the arc..."

Hoyle has the temperament of a stale piece of toast and will sit out his years as a speaker in the semi-comatose state he has adopted. Got his peerage bagged already.

Georg wrote: "Hoyle has the temperament of a stale piece of toast..."

Or a 'milquetoast', perhaps? He does seem a tad, well, supine...

giveusaclue wrote: "...the Speaker was supposed to be neutral"

Well, Bercow was a Conservative member of parliament before becoming speaker, so...

And speaking of neutrality - I thought the BBC was supposed to be 'neutral', and yet their Chair is a major Tory donor (£400k given to the party), and the D-G is a former Tory councillor... so, that's all right then.

scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "...the Speaker was supposed to be neutral"

Well, Bercow was a Conservative member of parliament before becoming speaker, so...

And speaking of neutrality - I thought the BBC w..."


I'm not going to get into what I think about the BBC!

scarletnoir wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "...the Speaker was supposed to be neutral"

Well, Bercow was a Conservative member of parliament before becoming speaker, so...

And speaking of neutrality - I thought the BBC w..."

The Clown of a PM is working hard to appoint as many Tory donors or supporters to every public body he can possibly manage. Dacre (more just extreme right wing than Tory)will be back re-applying to chair OFCOM i'm sure(he didnt get the job first time round)

What people dont realise i think is that the Tory benches are stuffed with career anti-BBC goons. John Whittingdale has been on the same mission since the 1990s.....

Meanwhile, back at the library! 😀

Lljones wrote: "Good morning, fine readers. It's rainy and cool here in Seattle today, but the neighborhood roses are in full bloom so I'm looking forward to the sunny weather to return so I can enjoy them.

Out in the wilds of Auburn, heavy rain outside the Fred Meyer store. But pleasant today.


A..."

The Right Madness by James Crumley

I'm quickly running out of Crumleys - after him, I'll have to find another fix from someone else...

This one has all the strengths and weaknesses of the other books - beautiful writing (in terms of choice of words, phrases, acronyms etc. - reading Crumley is an education) but totally confusing plotting (too many characters who after some brief introduction reappear much later on, by which time this poor reader has completely forgotten who they are). If I ever re-read the Crumleys, I'll take my own advice and write a brief note on each character... I really should have done with this one, which left me totally baffled. But what a ride!

The start is comprehensible enough - CW Sughrue is tasked with following a number of patients of his friend, the psychiatrist William Mackinderick... but soon, people start to die in spectacular and often gruesome ways. After that - your guess is as good as, or probably better, than mine.

The books are still very much recommended, so long as the use of language excites you more than plot, and if a certain degree of 'Anglo-Saxon' is not off-putting. I suppose some may find the sexual content in dubious taste, too, though those passages don't last long.

Last week, Andy wrote: I’m surprised there are any Simenon books that haven’t been translated into English. It appears this hasn’t...

I'm not sure if you know this, but Simenon was extremely prolific and published nearly 500 novels, so I'm not in the least surprised that some haven't made it into English!

If we could just find a publisher I’m sure we’d have a hit, with your good self as translator..

That's kind of you... I spend some time thinking about the art of the translator, as I read a lot in translation. It seems to me that for the best result, the translator needs not just a command of both languages, but a sympathy with the author. I have sometimes felt, when reading translations of authors I love, that a word or construction 'feels wrong'... probably this is a fallacious notion, but it's definitely there! At other times, it's a question of rendering a phrase in a more idiomatic way... I translated le pas des chevaux as "the sound of horses' hooves", and not as the 'steps of horses' which sounds wrong and is anyway weaker.

I did promise a while ago to transcribe here a commentary by a translator of "The Brothers Karamazov" on how he had tackled the job; I haven't done it yet, as it'll take time, but will get around to it, as it is well worth reading.

In the meantime... I am dipping into by David Hockney and Martin Gayford... very interesting, and the first art book I have read for quite a while. The Hockney exhibition at the National Portrait Gallery was the last one I saw, just before the lockdowns started.

I have also read a few pages of François-Henri Désérable's - an irresistible title (in English: 'You will show my head to the people'), which was apparently Danton's command to the executioner just before being guillotined... the book covers in re-imagined form the last few days of some significant executionees. First up is Charlotte Corday, who assassinated Marat... it promises to be fascinating.

Finally, I am about a quarter way through Henning Mankell's , in which a young Swede travels to a remote mission in Africa - more on that later.

scarletnoir wrote: "I have also read a few pages of François-Henri Désérable's..."

Please do report back on Tu montreras ma tête au peuple - I've become completely fascinated by the French Revolution recently.

scarletnoir wrote: "Last week, Andy wrote: I’m surprised there are any Simenon books that haven’t been translated into English. It appears this hasn’t...

I'm not sure if you know this, but Simenon was extremely proli..."

SN.
I feel a trifle unqualified to say what a good job translators do, as I don’t read in any other language other than English.
But I know that your point is a key one - how crucial it is that the translator gets a feel for the book. In some cases I can see that it’s almost like a complete rewrite.
I always credit the translator, which is a habit that came from a TLS discussion headed, if I recall correctly, by Ongley.

Hopefully someone gets on to those untranslated Simenon’s..

@AB - from last week, thanks for the Hamsun recommendation. I have Hunger on my tbr list, and will get onto Pan also..

scarletnoir wrote: I did promise a while ago to transcribe here a commentary by a translator of "The Brothers Karamazov" on how he had tackled the job; I haven't done it yet


As you might know I am also interested in the art of literary translation.
Maybe I could give you a little motivational push?
I've written a contribution after you mentioned that, about a German Dostojewski translator.
It is waiting patiently until you are ready :-)

I have just finished the second Bill Slider mysteries called Death Watch

by Cynthia-Harrod-Eagles. The first was called Orchestrated Death and like so many, the first rather better than the second. MK is a fan.
The books are set in South London around 1990 and are the usual police procedure.
They crack along at a fair pace, sprinkled quotes, well plotted if complicated. The first book seemed more concerned with Slider’s angst and his marriage problems. Some may recall that I was married to a Met detective for many years and, as you may expect, my sympathies were all with his wife and children who I felt he showed a lack of understanding of the difficulties the erratic hours posed for them and seemed only to dwell on his wife fault as an excuse for an affair.
That being said the books are quite readable and not overlong so I shall continue with the series from time to time. Easy going in between other texts.

Cabbie wrote: "Please do report back on Tu montreras ma tête au peuple - I've become completely fascinated by the French Revolution recently."

I certainly will - Désérable is currently my favourite author in any language, on the basis of only one book (his third) - this was the first, but already shows that the quality of writing will be very good. I don't read as quickly in French, though, so it'll take me a couple of weeks (probably).

Andy wrote: "@AB - from last week, thanks for the Hamsun recommendation. I have Hunger on my tbr list, and will get onto Pan also.."

I loved Hamsun when I was younger - he had a hard upbringing, which must have influenced 'Hunger'... all the early novels seemed good to me at that time. He seemed to lose the plot a bit later on, writing longer, less interesting books - and becoming a Nazi supporter (which reflected his lifelong right-wing political views). I don't recall anything 'political' about those early books, though.

Edit: This link - if it works - will tell you a little bit about Hamsun:
https://www.britannica.com/biography/...

Colum McCann’s Songdogs is a gorgeous novel. I find it wondrous that McCann published Fishing the Sloe-Black River, Songdogs and This Side of Brightness in such a brief period - what a formidable start to a writer’s career. This is the fifth McCann I’ve read, and I think it’s possibly enough to make him my favourite contemporary author. I’ve noted the praise for Apeirogon, but I think Zoli or Dancer will be my next McCann.
Now turning to Kiran Desai’s The Inheritance of Loss.

Getting along well with the Marc Morris The Anglo Saxons. The difficulty in writing about this period is that there is little written record. The Anglo Saxon Chronicle was written centuries later than many of the actions and the Venerable Bede many decades later, so much has to be guessed from what is written and whether it matches the archeology of the period being discovered and interpreted correctly.

One thing that appealed to me that the dynasty of Wuffa, one on the early East Anglian kings was known as the Wuffings!

@ scarletnoir Talking of last words, I once read in a little anthology of last words what an 18th-century French grammarian is reported to have said (in French): “I am going to die. I am about to die. Either form is correct.”

Andy wrote: "@AB - from last week, thanks for the Hamsun recommendation. I have Hunger on my tbr list, and will get onto Pan also.."

you will love "Hunger", it was my first Hamsun novel i read back in 2000 and its up there with the best novels i have read.

Hamsun is a major author of the 1890s to 1930s period, every book he wrote is a joy, the number of novels in translation is good but still quite a few remain untranslated. Another titan of Scando-lit is August Strindberg. His novel "The Red Room" is a brilliant novel, Stockholm in the 1870s and written with the same dynamism and originality as his plays

scarletnoir wrote: "Andy wrote: "@AB - from last week, thanks for the Hamsun recommendation. I have Hunger on my tbr list, and will get onto Pan also.."

I loved Hamsun when I was younger - h..."

scarletnoir wrote: "Andy wrote: "@AB - from last week, thanks for the Hamsun recommendation. I have Hunger on my tbr list, and will get onto Pan also.."

I loved Hamsun when I was younger - h..."

his novels tend to be based around psychological dilemmas, the inner workings of the soul and are profoundly free of much political dogma but as you say, he was an early supporter of the idea of a chosen Germanic folk (though he meant more the Germanic languages, which includes Norwegian, rather than the racist celebration of blonde Norsemen) and this mutated into a admiration for Hitler and the Nazis.

But he was shocked by the Nazi policies in Norway and loathed the Terboven, the Nazi commander in Norway. According to an article i read, he went to see Hitler and made some strong points about the way Norway was being treated but didnt get anywhere

It all ended in a trial after WW2 he wrote "On Overgrown Paths" in police custody.

On Hamsun and my comment about still many books untranslated, i just found:

Children of The Age
Segelfoss Town

Translated by Tough Poets Press.....exciting

I have also spotted that the brilliant Norvik press have published Swedish feminist writer Elin Wagner's "Penwoman" (1910)

AB76 wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Andy wrote: "@AB - from last week, thanks for the Hamsun recommendation. I have Hunger on my tbr list, and will get onto Pan also.."

I loved Hamsun wh..."

If you want to see the mother of all whitewashing operations on behalf of Hamsun:

Was Hamsun a Nazi?
The answer is:
No.
Hamsun was NOT a nazi. Hamsun was NOT a fascist. Hamsun had nothing in common with nazism
(I wonder why "nothing" was not capitalized)

https://www.hamsun.dk/was-knut-hamsun...

Faintly amusing fan fare.

Hitler brushed him off re Norway in 1943. Didn't change Hamsun's adoration of him though.

Georg wrote: "AB76 wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Andy wrote: "@AB - from last week, thanks for the Hamsun recommendation. I have Hunger on my tbr list, and will get onto Pan also.."

I lo..."

gosh thats a strange thing to put on his website, maybe they need a question: Did Knut Hamsun admire Adolf Hitler? YES

Second AZ jab has been delivered into my veins!

Now lets see if i'm beating out a sweaty tango in the evening hours or like with jab one, no side effects at all

i dont think i will be doing any reading if i'm sweating and feverish...

giveusaclue wrote: "Getting along well with the Marc Morris The Anglo Saxons. The difficulty in writing about this period is that there is little written record. The Anglo Saxon Chronicle was written centuries later t..."

I watched Dan Snow’ programmes on BBC4 entitled ‘ How the Celts saved Britain’ as it was billed to be about the Anglo Saxon era. Disappointingly it was mainly about Irish religion influencing Scotland and England and the eventual meeting at Whitby to decide whether that or the Roman church would be followed.
I did not believe Snow’s assertions about pagan Britain, some very sweeping , and in my view, incorrect statements. That the monks brought more literacy I would not dispute but one only has to look at the Sutton Hoo treasures to know that there were skilled craftsmen around. Such objects could not be fashioned without some knowledge of metalwork , mathematics and learning.
I have a few Anglo Saxon books already and am going to try and get to a bookshop to see the Morris book before I buy.

AB76 wrote: "The Return by Dulce Mario Cardoso(2016)
A rare modern novel for me, this Portugese account of one families return from the "Ultramar"(Angola in their case) to Portugal in 1975.."

What did you think of it, AB? I read it last year and enjoyed it, without thinking it was absolutely outstanding.

Have you read A General Theory of Oblivion by Jose Eduardo Agualusa? It covers somewhat similar ground (though set in Angola, rather than Portugal) and I thought it was excellent.

AlbyBeliever wrote: "AB76 wrote: "The Return by Dulce Mario Cardoso(2016)
A rare modern novel for me, this Portugese account of one families return from the "Ultramar"(Angola in their case) to Portugal in 1975.."

What..."

i have enjoyed Agualusa's novels and there is Mia Couto as well, who is Portugese Mozambiquan

So far the Cardoso book is going very well and its style suits me, its not heading into character driven depths, its hovering above the family group and reads as if its like a conversation the narrator is having with us

CCCubbon wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Getting along well with the Marc Morris The Anglo Saxons. The difficulty in writing about this period is that there is little written record. The Anglo Saxon Chronicle was writt..."

i read a POD version of a book on the ancestry of the modern British(written in late 1890s i think) and it was a fascinating study of where our origins lay. With Angles, Saxons and mixed Norse Belgians populating the south of england down to Dorset, while the east coast was mainly Jutes, Danes and Norwegians.

The book made the point that the Anglo-Saxons were far more diverse than many think, with significant Wendish minorities (the Wends are Slavs, who lived among the Germans and currently are found in Brandenburg). Wends were noticeably darker than the Anglo-Saxons but were assimiliated into the groups accross northern Germany.

The Jutes, Danes and Norwegians were also more diverse than expected with elements of Finns, people from the Kievan Rus and Swedes.

My ancient DNA showed some Finnish and Steppe-Turkic, about 18% which was new to me was well as Balto-Slav. Though i was 70% British

Blood Crime by Sebastià Alzamora , translated by Martha Tennent.
Small groups of the clergy managed to survive in Civil War-torn Barcelona in 1936, but many were slaughtered or fled. Almazora’s novel concentrates on some Marist Brothers, which include a Bishop, and a group of nuns taking refuge in a nearby convent. He fictionalises a leading player in the Red Terror, the anarchist, Manuel Escorza; though his actual physical handicap and viciousness remain.
The novel opens with a short narration from a vampire, of the particularly brutal murder of an elderly monk and a young boy.
At the convent, the Bishop takes an interest in the youngest of the nuns, a 13 year old, apparently because of her musical abilities - but his dubious behaviour is observed, by the Superintendent investigating the murder, and the vampire, who’s actual identity is for the reader to figure out.
There’s a lot of grisly killings especially at the start of the book, and to some extent the latter part of the book peters out, but in the last sentences the vampire’s identity is revealed.
To Almazora’s credit, is that in writing a vampire into Civil War Spain, it is not really noticed as the violence is that bad anyway. In criticism, the timing of his key scenes put me in mind of a distance runner’s sprint, when it is just too early.. and the runner barely makes the line.

Andy wrote: "Blood Crime by Sebastià Alzamora , translated by Martha Tennent.
Small groups of the clergy managed to survive in Civil War-torn Ba..."

Martha Tennent has done some great translation wok, the Rodoreda novel i read last year and the Bonet novel which is on my list were translated by her. Its good to see Catalan literature being translated, especially after Franco spent 36 years trying to kill it off

AB76 wrote: "
reply | flag *
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Interesting the Finnish/Steppe-Turkic link because there is much similarity I believe between the Finnish and Turkish languages. Due to the voyages by the Finns along the Volga I think.

CCCubbon wrote: "I have just finished the second Bill Slider mysteries called Death Watch

by Cynthia-Harrod-Eagles. The first was called Orchestrated Death and like so many, the first..."

Perhaps a word of caution - when I find a new series that I like, I am tempted to plough through THE WHOLE THING! But doing this for me has ended up being counterproductive. I don't know why, perhaps I tend to skim.

So somehow finding self-discipline (a rarity if one looks at my waistline) and after collecting them early on during shutdown the Cadfael series, I decided to ration myself to one book a month. I am now just beginning the last one. (Since there are 20 in total, I must admit that I didn't decide to be disciplined at the start.)

I did find I had favorites (and not so favorites - The Summer of the Danes), and the best by far was - The Holy Thief in which I felt she dangled false clue after false clue, as if she were playing with the reader. Of course I am in the early stages with Brother Cadfael's Penance, so nothing is definite.

Inserted in my paperback of 'Penance' is a note that Edith Pargeter died just before the book was published and that her formal education ended at high school. How amazing that she went on to be such a well-known and accomplished writer.

CCC - I will go back and re-read Slider #2 to refresh my memory of that one. I do agree that I did like some in the series more than others.

And while I am being so darned wordy, I will put in a plug for Martin Walker who spends part of his life in DC, so much so that when Politics and Prose (Obama's favorite DC bookstore) had tours, he was a leader in at least two (if memory serves) trips to the Dordogne sponsored by the bookstore.

Phew! I am done!

AB76 wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Getting along well with the Marc Morris The Anglo Saxons. The difficulty in writing about this period is that there is little written record. The Anglo Saxon Ch..."

I had to go look at my 23andMe break-out and was surprised to see that Finnish (None here) is separate from the rest of Scandinavia. I wonder how those Swedes who moved to Finland in the past are classified. (My ex was Finnish with all his grandparents coming from Finland to western Massachusetts.) They did call themselves Swede-Finns, having emigrated from the Vaasa, Finland.

Looks like I shall have to move Karl Marlantes - to a higher position in my TBR world.

Evening all. Last week I spent a blissfully internet-free few days in sunny Cornwall, so when I wasn't tramping along my beloved coast path I got lots of reading done. As is traditional, I lugged five or six heavy books along with me on the train, then ignored them all as I scoured the well-stocked shelves of the house I was visiting.

I've been on something of a mid-C20 women kick recently, so I was delighted to see a few Persephone Press and Virago Classics on the shelves. The first one I picked, more or less at random, was There Were No Windows by Norah Hoult. My dad was diagnosed with dementia a few years ago, and as you can imagine (or as you may well have experienced yourselves) it's not much fun watching someone you love sink into the morass of memory loss, confusion, depression and paranoia. So it may seem odd that I chose to spend some of my holiday reading about exactly that, but Hoult does it so well that it became a kind of perverse pleasure, even if it felt a bit close to the bone at times.

The novel, published in 1944, tells of the final decline of Claire Temple, an elderly woman who was once a star of London's literary scene (based closely on Violet Hunt, the lover of Ford Madox Ford, HG Wells and Somerset Maugham, and a now-forgotten novelist herself). Told both from Claire's perspective and from that of her few remaining friends and visitors, it's unexpectedly compelling - particularly those sections that take us into Claire's increasingly confused and paranoid mind. It's inevitably pretty bleak, but there are also moments of black comedy and ultimately I found it quite moving.

Next up was Antonia White's Frost in May , which was of course the first Virago Modern Classic. Originally published in 1933 and set in the early years of the century, it's fictionalised account of White's experience as young girl at a strict convent school. On the surface a coming-of-age school story, but also a fascinating insight into an adolescent infatuation with a romanticised form of Catholicism and an exploration of Catholic identity, and most strikingly an account of an absolutist, intrusive authoritarian regime that brings to mind Orwell or Solzhenitsyn. The regimental and psychological control that the nuns exert over the girls' lives is a feature of the unworldly, dogmatic ethos of the convent. Great stuff.

Then it was back to the tribulations of old age with Mrs. Palfrey at the Claremont . Elizabeth Taylor has become something of an obsession for me recently, and this may well be the best of her books that I've read. Like much of her work, its strength is in the closely observed social comedy, and also like much of her work this comedy is distinctly bittersweet and underpinned by a strong flavour of pathos. I rather hope that in my dotage I'm spared the indignity of life in a hotel for retirees (do these things still exist along the Cromwell Road? The hotels are still there but I suspect the clientele is very different these days).

Anne Tyler is a perennial favourite, and Vinegar Girl was a real delight - I whizzed through it in a day on Sunday. A re-telling of The Taming of the Shrew, it had a somewhat different feel from most of Tyler's other work - more upbeat and straightforward, and certainly the funniest Tyler book that I've read. But if it was a little lighter than some of her other work, it was still brilliantly written and I enjoyed it hugely (although I could have done without the unnecessary epilogue - would be interested to know if others agree).

Now I'm back with the old folk again with Olive, Again by Elizabeth Strout, having read and very much liked Olive Kitteridge last year. Only two chapters in, but so far so good. Once I'm done with that I might take a break from senior citizens for a while!

(Alongside all of this, I'm continuing to make my way through the second volume of Robert Caro's excellent LBJ biography, but more on that once I've finished).

giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "

Interesting the Finnish/Steppe-Turkic link because there is much similarity I believe between the Finnish and Turkish languages. Due to the voyages by the Finns along the Volga I think."

spot on....i would say the Turkic may have Mongol elements in it too, as these origin markers from DNA are from a long way back. I read an arab account of the North Ukraine area about 1000 years ago and there were numerous minoirties of Finnic and Turkic tribes around there, spreading up past Lake Lagoda(now modern southern finland/North Russia_

MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Getting along well with the Marc Morris The Anglo Saxons. The difficulty in writing about this period is that there is little written record. The A..."

Correct, the Finns are a totally different background to the Swedes, with a different language group too, however the aincient Finns apparently had some Swedish or Viking DNA, the modern Finns much less so, again evidence of shifting populations up to the 1400s

I would say any Finn who didnt know they had Swedish DNA would find it clearly exposed by a DNA test, where the race mixing is so defined. Or a Finland-Swede/Swedish-Finn would come out as clearly SwedishThe harder one would maybe a Czech with polish ancestry, as they are both "West Slav", not sure how that would be defined

The most interesting Finns for me are the Karelians and their sub groups spread wide over North European Russia since the 1600s. Most Karelians in Russia are Orthodox, while the small numbers in Finland are Lutheran. Their geographical spread is wide and numerically Finns/Karelians in Russia were significant in 1897(not just in Finland which was then part of Imperial Russia)

In Tver there was a population of Karelians almost intact till the 1970s, made up of Finns fleeing the Swedish invasions of Russian Karelia in the 18th century

AB76 wrote: "MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "Getting along well with the Marc Morris The Anglo Saxons. The difficulty in writing about this period is that there is little written re..."

It’s interesting to look at the map of Finland for one can see how there is land between Finland and the Baltic countries disregarding the boundary. One can imagine people moving up and down at various times especially during the Ice Age and later. Today there is a recognised link between Hungarian and Finnish languages. Given that there was land where there now is the North Sea, Doggerland, until roughly 12000 years ago the connection between Europe and Britain was marshy, gentle hills, woods. so it is perfectly possible that hunter gatherers would have made there way across from all areas of the continent, including Finland, before theAnglo Saxons settled here once the Romans left. and they themselves were descended from people from many areas.
All quite fascinating!