Reading the 20th Century discussion

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Archive > Group Reads -> January 2022 -> Nomination Thread (Crime and Punishment won by If Beale Street Could Talk by James Baldwin)

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message 1: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 15818 comments Mod
Every month we discuss a book on a specific era or a theme. This book will be the winner of a group poll.


Our January 2022 theme is Crime and Punishment

If you feel inspired, please nominate a 20th century book centred around crime and punishment that you would like to read and discuss. It could be fiction or non-fiction

Please supply the title, author, a brief synopsis, and anything else you'd like to mention about the book, and why you think it might make a good book to discuss.

Happy nominating.




message 2: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 15818 comments Mod
I think we should try and nominate titles that cover both crime and punishment rather than crime or punishment but, as always, it's up to you to interpret the theme as you see fit.

Looking forward to seeing what we come up with.


message 3: by Nigeyb (last edited Oct 20, 2021 06:01AM) (new)

Nigeyb | 15818 comments Mod
Here's my nomination....


Hanns and Rudolf: The True Story of the German Jew Who Tracked Down and Caught the Kommandant of Auschwitz

by

Thomas Harding

It sounds incredible and a good fit with the theme

SUNDAY TIMES BESTSELLER
WINNER OF THE JQ WINGATE PRIZE 2015
SHORTLISTED FOR THE COSTA BIOGRAPHY AWARD

The true story of the Jewish investigator who pursued and captured one of Nazi Germany's most notorious war criminals.

Hanns Alexander was the son of a prosperous German family who fled Berlin for London in the 1930s.

Rudolf Höss was a farmer and soldier who became the Kommandant of Auschwitz Concentration Camp and oversaw the deaths of over a million men, women and children.

In the aftermath of the Second World War, the first British War Crimes Investigation Team is assembled to hunt down the senior Nazi officials responsible for the greatest atrocities the world has ever seen. Lieutenant Hanns Alexander is one of the lead investigators, Rudolf Höss his most elusive target.

In this book Thomas Harding reveals for the very first time the full, exhilarating account of Höss’ capture. Moving from the Middle-Eastern campaigns of the First World War to bohemian Berlin in the 1920s, to the horror of the concentration camps and the trials in Belsen and Nuremberg, it tells the story of two German men whose lives diverged, and intersected, in an astonishing way.


Praise....

"Thomas Harding has shed intriguing new light on the strange poison of Nazism, and one of its most lethal practitioners... Meticulously researched and deeply felt." (Ben Macintyre The Times, Book of the Week)

"Fascinating and moving...This is a remarkable book, which deserves a wide readership." (Max Hastings The Sunday Times)

"A gripping thriller, an unspeakable crime, an essential history." (John Le Carré)

"This is a stunning book...both chilling and deeply disturbing. It is also an utterly compelling and exhilarating account of one man's extraordinary hunt for the Kommandant of the most notorious death camp of all, Auschwitz-Birkenau." (James Holland)

"Only at his great uncle’s funeral in 2006 did Thomas Harding discover that Hanns Alexander, whose Jewish family fled to Britain from Nazi Germany in the 1930s, hunted down and captured Rudolf Höss, the ruthless commandant of Auschwitz, at the end of World War Two. By tracing the lives of these two men in parallel until their dramatic convergence in 1946, Harding puts the monstrous evil of the Final Solution in two specific but very different human contexts. The result is a compelling book full of unexpected revelations and insights, an authentic addition to our knowledge and understanding of this dark chapter in European history. No-one who starts reading it can fail to go on to the end." (David Lodge)

"In this electrifying account, Thomas Harding commemorates (and, for the tired, revivifies) a ringing Biblical injunction: Justice, justice, shalt thou pursue." (Cynthia Ozick)

"Its climax as thrilling as any wartime adventure story, Hanns and Rudolf is also a moral inquiry into an eternal question: what makes a man turn to evil? Closely researched and tautly written, this book sheds light on a remarkable and previously unknown aspect of the Holocaust - the moment when a Jew and one of the highest-ranking Nazis came face to face and history held its breath." (Jonathan Freedland)

"Absorbing ... Thomas Harding narrates, in careful, understated prose, the story of how his great uncle Hanns Alexander hunted down the man who vaingloriously identified himself as ‘the world’s greatest destroyer’: Rudolf Höss, the Bavarian-born Kommandant of Auschwitz.Harding balances with scrupulous care the stories of the pursuer and the pursued … Le Carré is quite correct. The last section of Harding’s book does indeed read like a gripping thriller." (Miranda Seymour Spectator)

"An extraordinary tale deriving from meticulous research – the story of how a young Jew after 1945 almost single-handedly hunted down the Kommandant of Auschwitz." (Frederick Forsyth)

"A highly readable detective story … This is really a book about the world of Hanns Alexander…[and it is] well worth reading ... Harding has researched it thoroughly." (Richard Overy Sunday Telegraph)

‘Fascinating. As awareness of the full horror of these dark years continues to advance, this book fills a unique and vital role.’ Lyn Smith

‘A remarkable book: thoughtful, compelling and quite devastating in its humanity. Thomas Harding’s account of these two extraordinary men goes straight to the dark heart of Nazi Germany.’ Keith Lowe

‘A fascinating, well-crafted book, entwining two biographies for an unusual and illuminating approach to the history of the Third Reich, its most heinous crime and its aftermath.’ Roger Moorhouse





message 4: by Kit (new)

Kit | 266 comments Nigeyb: sounds like a ripper.

Continuing my curiosity from reading Billie Holiday’s book, some kind of social history on the use of drugs/ legal treatment of it would be interesting. I don’t know what that book would be, just spitballing here.
There’s been a lot of interest in this “recently” and I’ve read a few books on it but my interest is unsated.


message 5: by Tania (new)

Tania | 1237 comments I was going to pick this up in the next few days, but seeing this theme, I thought it woulf be a perfect fit, so I'd like to nominate A Pin To See The Peepshow by F. Tennyson Jesse, which has just been republished. It's a fictional account of the Ilford murder case, which involved Edith Thompson and Fred Byewaters. A famous case from the 1920's.


message 6: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 15818 comments Mod
Thanks Tania


I read a book about the case a while back...

Rex v. Edith Thompson by Laura Thompson

...which was very interesting and which I enjoyed...

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...



NOMINATIONS SO FAR...
Hanns and Rudolf: The True Story of the German Jew Who Tracked Down and Caught the Kommandant of Auschwitz by Thomas Harding (Nigeyb)
A Pin To See The Peepshow by F. Tennyson Jesse (Tania)


message 7: by Tania (new)

Tania | 1237 comments I remember you reading it. I would have joined if my library had had it. I read bits about it a few times, but at the moment, I can only think of The Sweet and the Twenties by Beverley Nichols, who decicated a chapter to it as an argument against capital punishment. The book was written in the 50's, so shortly before it was abolished.


message 8: by Rosina (new)

Rosina (rosinarowantree) | 411 comments Can I recommend The Wicked Boy: The Mystery of a Victorian Child Murderer by Kate Summerscale.

"Early in the morning of Monday 8 July 1895, thirteen-year-old Robert Coombes and his twelve-year-old brother Nattie set out from their small, yellow-brick terraced house in East London to watch a cricket match at Lord's. Their father had gone to sea the previous Friday, the boys told their neighbours, and their mother was visiting her family in Liverpool. Over the next ten days Robert and Nattie spent extravagantly, pawning their parents' valuables to fund trips to the theatre and the seaside. But as the sun beat down on the Coombes house, a strange smell began to emanate from the building. When the police were finally called to investigate, the discovery they made sent the press into a frenzy of horror and alarm, and Robert and Nattie were swept up in a criminal trial that echoed the outrageous plots of the 'penny dreadful' novels that Robert loved to read. In The Wicked Boy, Kate Summerscale has uncovered a fascinating true story of murder and morality - it is not just a meticulous examination of a shocking Victorian case, but also a compelling account of its aftermath, and of man's capacity to overcome the past."


message 9: by WndyJW (last edited Oct 20, 2021 01:17PM) (new)

WndyJW The Five: The Untold Lives of the Women Killed by Jack the Ripper sounds interesting.

Hallie Rubenhold got a lot of grief from male autodidacts convinced they knew the real story about the women killed by Jack the Ripper.


message 10: by Rosina (new)

Rosina (rosinarowantree) | 411 comments WndyJW wrote: "The Five: The Untold Lives of the Women Killed by Jack the Ripper sounds interesting.

Hallie Rubenhold got a lot of grief from male autodidacts convinced they knew the real story a..."


I thought of that too!


message 11: by WndyJW (last edited Oct 20, 2021 01:41PM) (new)

WndyJW I just remembered The Five isn’t 20th century.


message 12: by Rosina (new)

Rosina (rosinarowantree) | 411 comments WndyJW wrote: "I just remembered The Five isn’t 20th century."

Neither committed nor written in the 20th century, but I think the group's definition is elastic.

I decided The Wicked Boy was OK because it stretched from the last years of the nineteen (for the crime) into the 20th century for 'punishment' and aftermath.

We must await our moderators' arbitration ...


message 13: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 15818 comments Mod
A group read nomination does have to be written or set in the twentieth century

If there’s interest in reading it we can do it as a buddy read. Possibly in the same month if that suits those who are keen.


message 14: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 15818 comments Mod
The Wicked Boy is fine on the basis that part of the story takes place during the twentieth century

It’s a good book. I have read it.


message 15: by Roman Clodia (new)

Roman Clodia | 11893 comments Mod
Just musing for the moment rather than nominating: I have East West Street: On the Origins of "Genocide" and "Crimes Against Humanity" but it's too similar to Nigeyb's nomination which looks excellent.

Also thinking about If Beale Street Could Talk and Alias Grace.


message 17: by Kathleen (new)

Kathleen | 451 comments Roman Clodia wrote: "Also thinking about If Beale Street Could Talk and Alias Grace."

Oh, I love those ideas!


message 18: by Susan (new)

Susan | 14188 comments Mod
I think I have read, and enjoyed, most of the nominations so far.

I will nominate, if acceptable, Nuremberg: A personal record of the trial of the major Nazi war criminals Nuremberg A personal record of the trial of the major Nazi war criminals by Airey Neave

On 18 October 1945, a day that would haunt him for ever, Airey Neave personally served the official indictments on the twenty-one top Nazis currently awaiting trial in Nuremberg – including Hermann Goering, Rudolf Hess, Julius Streicher and Albert Speer. With his visit to their gloomy prison cells, the tragedy of an entire generation reached its final act.

Neave, a wartime organiser of MI9 and the first Englishman to escape from Colditz Castle, watched and listened over the months as the momentous events of the trials unfolded. He describes the cowardice, calumny and, in some cases, bravado of the defendants – men he would come to know and who in turn would become known as some the most evil men in history.

Was the trial victors’ justice? Or was it civilisation’s infinitely painful verdict on the worst crimes ever committed?

These questions, and many others, are answered in this definitive eyewitness record of the Nuremberg trials.


message 19: by Nigeyb (last edited Oct 20, 2021 11:13PM) (new)

Nigeyb | 15818 comments Mod
Thanks for the new nominations.


Jan, I have not included yours as you said you were thinking about them. When you have a firm nomination please let us know


NOMINATIONS SO FAR...

Hanns and Rudolf: The True Story of the German Jew Who Tracked Down and Caught the Kommandant of Auschwitz by Thomas Harding (Nigeyb)
A Pin To See The Peepshow by F. Tennyson Jesse (Tania)
The Wicked Boy: The Mystery of a Victorian Child Murderer by Kate Summerscale (Rosina)
Nuremberg: A personal record of the trial of the major Nazi war criminals by Airey Neave (Susan)


message 20: by Judy (new)

Judy (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejudyg) | 4840 comments Mod
Kathleen wrote: "Roman Clodia wrote: "Also thinking about If Beale Street Could Talk and Alias Grace."

Oh, I love those ideas!"


I would also like to discuss If Beale Street Could Talk, which is a book I have been meaning to read for a long time. I have read Alias Grace but it was a long time ago so would be happy to reread.


message 21: by Jan C (new)

Jan C (woeisme) | 1647 comments I'll nominate Adirondack Tragedy - the true story behind Theodore Dreiser's An American Tragedy.


message 22: by WndyJW (new)


message 23: by Nigeyb (last edited Oct 22, 2021 06:36AM) (new)

Nigeyb | 15818 comments Mod
WndyJW wrote: "I will nominate The Five: The Untold Lives of the Women Killed by Jack the Ripper, since it’s eligible."


I'm confused WndyJW - how is it eligible?

The book is not set in the twentieth century and not written in the twentieth century. What have I missed?


message 25: by Ben (new)

Ben Keisler | 2143 comments Jan’s nomination was Adirondack Tragedy


message 26: by Nigeyb (new)

Nigeyb | 15818 comments Mod
Ben wrote: "Jan’s nomination was Adirondack Tragedy"

Thanks Ben


message 28: by Kathleen (new)

Kathleen | 451 comments I was waiting to see if If Beale Street Could Talk was nominated, but since it hasn't been yet, I'll go ahead.

If Beale Street Could Talk by James Baldwin
If Beale Street Could Talk by James Baldwin

Baldwin's fifth novel, published in 1974, set in 1970's Harlem.
A love story involving the failures of the criminal justice system.


message 30: by Alwynne (new)

Alwynne | 3504 comments Nigeyb wrote: "WndyJW wrote: "I will nominate The Five: The Untold Lives of the Women Killed by Jack the Ripper, since it’s eligible."


I'm confused WndyJW - how is it eligible?

The book is not ..."


This is me being dozy but although it's set in the nineteenth century it was first published in 2019, so presumably choices have to be first published in the 20th century and set in the 20th century? Is that the issue with this one?


message 31: by Jan C (new)

Jan C (woeisme) | 1647 comments I think the point is that it neither takes place in the 20th century nor was written then. Although I think dispensations have been allowed before. But it is up to the mods.


message 32: by Alwynne (new)

Alwynne | 3504 comments Aah, I assumed that we included this century in the books we could read, probably because the Hilary Mantel 'Beyond Black' was published in 2005 and I thought it was set in the present.


message 33: by Nigeyb (last edited Oct 22, 2021 11:41PM) (new)

Nigeyb | 15818 comments Mod
Good point about Beyond Black. That was my mistake. I wrongly thought that it was published in the 20th century - otherwise it would not have been included in the challenge

Just to be clear, the twentieth century stipulation only applies to group reads (and - ahem - challenge reads). We often read non-twentieth century books as buddy reads.

We're ditching the challenge next year so we can have more buddy reads which are generally more popular and allow us to be more spontaneous.


message 34: by Susan (new)

Susan | 14188 comments Mod
Yes, I think that we often have more spontaneous buddy reads - particularly with books that come close in the vote. I have a few Weimar Republic books on my TBR list at the moment :)


message 35: by Roman Clodia (new)

Roman Clodia | 11893 comments Mod
I wasn't going to nominate as there are already so many books in the poll that I want to read - but then I thought of the 1972 Munich Olympic massacre and the Israeli response, also covered in Spielberg's movie, Munich. It seems to be regarded as one of the twentieth century's first major acts of terrorism that played out live on TV screens. So I'm nominating Striking Back: The 1972 Munich Olympics Massacre and Israel's Deadly Response:

The first full account, based on access to key players who have never before spoken, of the Munich Massacre and the Israeli response–a lethal, top secret, thirty-year-long antiterrorism campaign to track down the killers.
1972. The Munich Olympics. Palestinian members of the Black September group murder eleven Israeli athletes. Nine hundred million people watch the crisis unfold on television, witnessing a tragedy that inaugurates the modern age of terror and remains a scar on the collective conscience of the world.
Back in Israel, Prime Minister Golda Meir vows to track down those responsible and, in Menachem Begin’s words, “run these criminals and murderers off the face of the earth.” A secret Mossad unit, code named Caesarea, is mobilized, a list of targets drawn up. Thus begins the Israeli response–a mission that unfolds not over months but over decades. The Mossad has never spoken about this operation. No one has known the real story. Until now.
Award-winning journalist Aaron Klein’s incisive and riveting account tells for the first time the full story of Munich and the Israeli counterterrorism operation it spawned. With unprecedented access to Mossad agents and an unparalleled knowledge of Israeli intelligence, Klein peels back the layers of myth and misinformation that have permeated previous books, films, and magazine articles about the “shadow war” against Black September and other terrorist groups.
Spycraft, secret diplomacy, and fierce detective work abound in a story with more drama than any fictional thriller.


It's expensive on Kindle (£9.99) but there are second-hand copies, and a few copies in my library so worth checking there.


message 36: by Alwynne (new)

Alwynne | 3504 comments Nigeyb wrote: "Good point about Beyond Black. That was my mistake. I wrongly thought that it was published in the 20th century - otherwise it would not have been included in the challenge

Just to b..."


Thanks Nigey, makes sense!


message 37: by Susan (new)

Susan | 14188 comments Mod
Roman Clodia wrote: "I wasn't going to nominate as there are already so many books in the poll that I want to read - but then I thought of the 1972 Munich Olympic massacre and the Israeli response, also covered in Spie..."

That sounds very interesting, RC. A possible buddy if it doesn't win?


message 39: by Ben (new)

Ben Keisler | 2143 comments Nothing from me this time, thanks


message 40: by Roman Clodia (new)

Roman Clodia | 11893 comments Mod
Susan wrote: "That sounds very interesting, RC. A possible buddy if it doesn't win?"

Yes please!

Such an interesting selection this month all grappling with crucial issues of law and ethics. I'd also been thinking about Northern Ireland and the Troubles, where 'law' and 'punishment' were taken into the hands of paramilitary groups on both sides.


message 41: by Susan (new)

Susan | 14188 comments Mod
I also thought of the Troubles, but, as we'd had that as a theme a while ago, I resisted. And yes, definitely! Will download Striking Back today, RC.


message 43: by WndyJW (last edited Oct 24, 2021 11:52AM) (new)

WndyJW Nigeyb wrote: "WndyJW wrote: "I will nominate The Five: The Untold Lives of the Women Killed by Jack the Ripper, since it’s eligible."


I'm confused WndyJW - how is it eligible?

The book is not ..."


My apologies!! I did read too fast and somehow saw a “not” after, “does” in “ A group read nomination does have to be written or set in the twentieth century.”

I can’t think of a 20th C crime & punishment book. So sorry again for the confusion.


message 45: by Ben (new)

Ben Keisler | 2143 comments I just checked Amazon U.K., and A Pin to see the Peep Show is an expensive purchase there. Has anyone found a cheaper source?


message 46: by Alwynne (new)

Alwynne | 3504 comments Ben the old Virago edition is a bit pricy at the moment but the British Library edition is due out in early November, in paperback at 9.99, it doesn't come up immediately but if you put in the title followed by British Library should see it. Not sure if they'll do a Kindle edition.


message 47: by Kit (new)

Kit | 266 comments A copy is on the open library site:
https://openlibrary.org/works/OL11783...


message 48: by Tania (new)

Tania | 1237 comments Amazon has it coming out on 11/11. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pin-See-Peep... the kindle version usually come out a day ir two later and are £2.99.


message 49: by Ben (new)

Ben Keisler | 2143 comments That's very helpful. Thanks Allwyne, Kit and Tania.

Still not my top pick but some reasonable sources there.


message 50: by Alwynne (new)

Alwynne | 3504 comments The Munich book does sound interesting Ben but I make it a rule to steer clear of discussing anything online that involves Israel and Palestine, tends to get too heated, too many opportunities for misunderstanding. Also I have the Tennyson Jesse and I've already read it, so easy to discuss. Although I also like the sound of the Baldwin, and I read 'Hans and Rudolf' and thought it was decent but from the library so can't recall the details.


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