Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
Bulletin Board
>
How Can I Tell If An Author Is An Indie Author?
message 1:
by
Arch
(new)
Jul 19, 2022 04:54PM

reply
|
flag

Is my question confusing to you?"
I plead ignorance, I have heard of indie films, but I do not understand what makes an author "indie".

This is opposite to a traditional publisher who is responsible for everything required to publish a book. Most/many traditional publishers have their own illustrators to create the book cover, have their own editor, obtain the ISBN number, create the copyright page, some assist with marketing the book, etc. A contract is agreed upon between the publisher and the author. The author usually gets a smaller percentage of the profits from the sale of their book.
Perhaps others here might add additional clarifications, but this is my understanding of differences between Indie publishing and Traditional publishing.

Thank you Donna. I guess I fall in between. Authorhouse arranged a lot of services for me, but I paid an initial contract fee, and then some advertising fees after publication. I don't know if I would qualify as an Indie author? I needed all the help from Authorhouse because I knew nothing when I started. There are sure a lot of people out their that offer publishing services... I would have had no idea whom to trust.


My own personal guide...if it looks obviously self published (ie: home made, because some of them have shockingly bad covers) I won't pick it up. A bad cover usually indicates a lack of editing and no attention to the craft of writing.

Sorry Lester, correct me if I am wrong, but aren’t you an author? I thought that you were trying to get me to tell you what an indie author was to say that I have gotten my answer. Sorry. It’s just my experience with some authors on here.

"
Ok, so, when I borrow or purchase a book, how can I tell if it was written by an Indie Author?

You can’t (or not easily) without a bit of detective work. You need to see who published the book, then look if that imprint only publishes that author, is a small press, or one of the traditional publishers.
That’s why I use overall quality as a rough gauge to avoid the worse of the self published drek.

Sadly you fell for their sales patter. AuthorHouse are a notorious vanity press (scam) who massively overcharge for substandard (and sometimes FREE) services. Its takes 5 seconds to google "AuthorHouse + scam" to see the numerous warnings about them.
How much did you pay them for their so called publishing package and advertising?


Because, I want to know.

Sadly you fell for their sales patter. AuthorHouse are a no..."
I probably did pay too much, but it was lower than I was hearing from other publishers. And I sure was not finding any Traditional publisher to pay for publishing my book. My initial package with Authorhouse was under $5000 for 2 books, and I probably spent $3000 on advertising through Authorhouse. But
1) they set me up with a KIRKUS Review, and
2) spot adds on several internet book purveyors,
3) took my book to the Miami Book Fair,
4) designed a website for me (www.LesterFisher.co),
5) did a video trailer,
6) a Book2Look.com,
7) gave me 50 copies of the hard and soft bound books
8) gave me 50 BookStubs for free downloads of the ebooks
9) provided marketing materials, posters, book markers, fliers.
10) and did marketing reports on everything that they did for me. I turned down some packages such as the Author's Interview video and the expensive editor.
All of these services were totally unknown to me; I would have been completely lost without Authorhouse. Now I am answering this question, because I think everyone should be aware, but I don't think these so-called free publications are reputable. Authorhouse did a very professional job on my book: hardcover, paperback, and ebook. it is available on websites throughout the world. And my book will be in on-demand production as long as the company exist... probably long after I am dead and gone. Of course, they take a significant proportion of the sales, but that is why I can rely on them to service my readership.
I have hired Lavidge Social Media Consultants for $4500, because the alternative was to pay more than that for a one=time review in the NY Review of Books (which some people think is the gold standard). I figured that it would make more sense to learn how to do social media marketing. I don't know how effective it will be, but i really doubt that all these so called bargain package, that I have been assaulted with since before the books were even published are anything but a scam. For example, I have been solicited to make my book available for a screen play; but they want me to pay for the screen writer. Scam Scam Scam!!!
I know that you can publish with Amazon KDP for little or no up-front costs, but Amazon takes their cut too, and everything regarding marketing, editing, design, etc. are the responsibility of the author.
I think I was right to let Authorhouse do all that work, because they are professionals. At any rate, I will be willing to share my experiences with marketing as time goes on, but it is clear that the markets are very competitive, and one's magnum opus can be lost in the flood of millions of books being produced every year.

An indie author is a writer of fiction, nonfiction, or poetry books who self-publishes their own work and retains and controls their own publishing rights.
Unlike authors who self-publish a book for family, friends or community, an indie author (wants to) make a living from writing and publishing books. They are “indie” because compared to authors who sign exclusive deals with a single trade publisher, or a single self-publishing service, they are relatively independent–the creative director of their own books, and their own publishing business.
(Reference: https://www.allianceindependentauthor...)
You can't necessarily tell if an author is an indie author just by looking at the book, although it's true that a lot of books by indie authors aren't quality jobs. Even if the writing is good and well-edited, the book layout and cover may be subpar. However, that isn't always the case. Some indie authors do a very professional job, either by their own skills or by hiring professionals to help with production. The real answer is the publisher/imprint. You can always look up the publisher or imprint online to see who they are. If you looked up my publisher, Red Tales, you'd likely find out I own it (although it turns out someone else started using the same name for a series of stories, so you might find them instead). If you looked up Harper Collins, well, you'd find they're one of the big five publishers.
Regarding Lester's posts about Authorhouse, I have no experience with them, but I do know people who have paid thousands of dollars to buy a garage full of books. I don't think that's a very good way to go, although if you have the money and do your homework, you might be able to make it work. (Lester sounds like he either made out okay or is trying to drum up business for Authorhouse.) Hiring professional services is a way to go. You just want to do your due diligance and make sure you understand how much it will cost, what you get for the money, and what your chances of making money on the deal are. (For most of us, the latter is precisely zero.)
I pay money for a decent cover and for a license to use Adobe InDesign, but I'm fortunate enough to have editorial skills in my family and have learned how to do a layout that looks reasonably professional. I can therefore publish a good-looking book that reads well for far less than the thousands of dollars vanity presses charge. And I'm still loosing money at this stage in my writing "career." At least it's a tax writeoff. ;-)

I have been reading romance books for 30 plus years and a lot of the older books covers looked cheesy. Fabio used to be on a lot of covers.

You don't seem to understand how traditional publishing works. You do NOT pay a publisher, they (ideally) pay YOU an advance and bear all the costs of production.
I'll repeat it again for those who might be reading this thread and thinking how to get published - Author House is a vanity press they are NOT a publisher. Heck there's even a book about how they scam writers.

They make their money by selling overpriced publishing and advertising packages to writers who haven't done their research. Publishers make their money by selling books. Vanity presses keep milking those who signed up with them. For those you want a traditional publisher, its a long road that involves querying agents first. Agents then submit the manuscript to publishers.
So let's recap, one writer with a much lighter pocket book paid:
$5,000 for a "publishing" package from AuthorHouse (which most likely includes charges for things that are free)
$2,000 for a review
$3,500 for "advertising" with AuthorHouse
$4,500 to Lavidge Social Media Consultants
So we're up to$15,000 spent. How much of that have you recouped? You could have self published for under $1,500 and many of the tools you need to advertise/market are available online for either free or very little.
Lester wrote: "I know that you can publish with Amazon KDP for little or no up-front costs, but Amazon takes their cut too..."
You do realise AuthorHouse take a chunk of any Amazon sales?
There are loads of online resources about how to self publish. A good place to start is David Gaughran who runs a FREE course that you can find on his website.
https://davidgaughran.com/lets-get-di...

There's no foolproof way, but if you look (for example at Amazon) under product details, it'll list ASIN first and after that - it may (or may not) list publisher. For example, JD Robb's upcoming release looks like this --
ASIN : B09Y46SX9G
Publisher : St. Martin's Press (February 7, 2023)
Publication date : February 7, 2023
For someone self-pubbed, there's either nothing listed or it might be under Amazon if it is listed. It used to do it that way but I just looked up my book and it just doesn't list a publisher at all, so it's listed as --
ASIN : xxxxxxxx
Publication date : April 4, 2020
Some people may be self-published but have their own publishing "companies" they established. Those won't always be clear. It could be something noticeable like their name, or just a company name so unless you google it, you wouldn't know if it were an indie person or a small press you don't know of.
Though on further inspection, on trying to find an example - looks like a publisher is just missing from anyone that isn't traditionally published. Can't say when that change happened, but recently I'd say.
Hope that helps.

ASIN : B09Y46SX9G
Publisher : St. Martin's Press (February 7, 2023)
Publication date : February 7, 2023
For someone self-pubbed, there's either nothing listed or it might be under Amazon if it is listed. It used to do it that way but I just looked up my book and it just doesn't list a publisher at all, so it's listed as --
ASIN : xxxxxxxx
Publication date : April 4, 2020
Some people may be self-published but have their own publishing "companies" they established. Those won't always be clear. It could be something noticeable like their name, or just a company name so unless you google it, you wouldn't know if it were an indie person or a small press you don't know of.
Though on further inspection, on trying to find an example - looks like a publisher is just missing from anyone that isn't traditionally published. Can't say when that change happened, but recently I'd say.
Hope that helps. "
Thanks.

Clear as Ugali (a thick African corn meal mush) BTW why don't you just take a look at my book(s) and tell me whether, in your opinion, I am Indie or Vanity (I don't much like the latter designation). www.LesterFisher.com

You’re neither indie nor trad published. Amazon displays “AuthorHouse” as the publisher which makes you vanity published.

My sentiments exactly, only I would ad one more thing; Investigate enough to know who in the book business is scamming us and who is genuine!

Thank you Donna, I think that is pretty accurate, except that you draw a hard-line between the Indie making most of the profit and the assisting publisher making most of the profit (e.g. Authorhouse, or what Arch calls a vanity publication). There is also the Traditional publisher that foots the whole cost, but also takes the lions share of the profit. Personally, I think that "vanity publication" is a misnomer, which implies a kind of self-aggrandizement of the author. Not so, it is a simple fact that getting a traditional publisher to take your book is a one in one or more million chance. If an author feels that what he/she writes is worthy of being published, in spite of the fierce competition, and wants to subsidize trying to get it done, that is Indie too. It's just that the cost might be greater than some would be willing to pay. I would never have been able to do what Authorhouse did for me. But I don't like being called a vanity publisher! Thanks Donna, for you, more dispassionate description of the categories.

Truly we are very talented in this case! We are authors, marketers, editors and social media experts. I liken being an Indie Author to the old fashioned Housewife, multi tasking, master of many skills and the work is never done. Hope this can bring a smile or two during a very hectic Thursday! Even with a publisher, I hear that one still has to take care of being care over social media, marketing etc and the work doesn't just halt because an publishing co have taken the work on. I know some really Big Names out there, who still have to push for reviews, link sharing etc. Take care All, Kerry

I never said anything about vanity publication.

It seems they are on ALLI's watchdog list with concerns:
https://selfpublishingadvice.org/best...
If you enter Authorhouse into their search field, they pull up as a red/Watchdog advisory company.
For instance, I checked out your website last night (as an indie, I haven't made myself one yet, and I always like to see what other authors find beneficial!). When I clicked order, I wasn't given an option of storefronts to buy from. It links only to author house, not Amazon, Barnes and Noble, or any of the other large book retailers.
It's a small detail but things like that can lose you sales.
Your book also doesn't seem to be enrolled in Kindle Unlimited, which at the length of 674 print pages should pay you quite well for a full read through.
You seem like a very nice fellow, and I hope you're able to find a good way forward.

I'm no expert yet, but I'm working along the way.
All the best,
K. A. Gandy


Authors whose work has been rejected, not even considered, or not even submitted for consideration by traditional publishers seek alternative methods of making their work availble to the reading public.
Technically, a published author is a published author, regardless of the method of publication. The method of publication does not determine the quality of the writer's work, its popularity, or commercial viability. Readers' tastes are subjective. One reader's Worst book ever! might very well be another reader's Best book ever!
The odds of a novice author achieving commercial success or even notoriety within this extremely competitive field are very slim. That said; some have. One will never know how their work will be received unless they at least make it availble to the public, regardless of method.

Authors wh..."
Very Thoughtful Jim! That's pretty much the way I feel too. You are right about the pejorative connotation of "self-published", and referring to us as "Vanity published" is even more demeaning. Let's just all be thankful if we have the opportunity to get published, because the real hurdle is getting eyeballs on our books!

I would like to know more about these Partnership publishers. Of the hundreds of solicitation that I received before my book was even published (there must be an internet list of aspiring writers somewhere) NONE of those groups offered such a deal. They all wanted to be paid up-front, and some wanted a lot more money than I initially paid for those services from Authorhouse.

You are correct Jim, a published author is a published author and the quality of an author’s book is not determine where they have gotten published from. Anybody can write, just as anyone can become an author, but writing is not every writer’s or author’s talent. Some writer (writer and author) does not know how to tell a story.

Look at the publisher. Indie authors are usually someone like KDP .

Many indies have their own publishing imprints now, or will put a publisher name in that field so their book doesn’t appear to be self published.

The ones I know of only handle previously trad published authors who have a backlist to also handle. They generally do not go looking for authors. Authors find them through word of mouth or agents.

Ah, okay. I was just trying to be comprehensive. ;-) The bottom line in terms of telling whether a given book was written by an indie author is, you have to check the publisher or imprint to see if it's an indie work or not.
I use the services of Free-Ebooks.net, which specializes in publishing online ebooks for free (or nearly free). Their goal is to allow new/previously unpublished/unknown authors to publish the books of those authors in electronic format and allow them to become known and at the same time offer new books to its members. They have both regular members (up to five book downloads per month in PDF or Text format, $5.00 initial membership fee) and V.I.P. members (membership fee of approx $190.00, unlimited amount of downloads per month in either PDF, Text, Epub and Kindle). Authors don't get paid but they are able to present their stories to the World at next to no cost, while the regular members can get free ebooks. This is not a site associated with best sellers and celebrity authors but it is an excellent site where new authors can start showing off their work, get ratings and reviews. A lot of the books on Free-Ebooks.net are of the self-help type but there are also plenty of works of fiction, along with non-fiction. I started publishing on that site some ten years ago and have by now built quite a following. I am not sure how you would classify that publishing site, though.

That’s nuts. How many readers would pay $5/month (let alone $190!) to read the books of novice writers who aren’t good enough to self publish on Amazon? When for less than $10/month you can have an Amazon KU subscription and access thousands of quality titles.
I would classify such a site somewhere below Wattpad. At least Wattpad is well known by readers and has some amazing stories to read for free. The place you linked looks like a scam site.

Thanks.
Mellie wrote: "Michel wrote: "They have both regular members (up to five book downloads per month in PDF or Text format, $5.00 initial membership fee) and V.I.P. members (membership fee of approx $190.00...."
Th..."
Mellie, you got it all wrong. The regular members at Free-Ebooks.net pay an initial fee of $5.00 and that's it. That's a one-time fee, not a monthly fee. The same for VIP members, who pay a one-time fee of $190.00, good for life. As an author published by the site, I only pay $5.00 for every ebook I submit for publication, to cover the admin handling cost. All the books I submitted were accepted and put online with 2-3 days, time for the editorial staff to ensure that my story does not promote hatred/illegal acts. As for being a 'novice writer not good enough to get self-published on Amazon', you better review your response, fast! You criticized without checking your facts, while you hide behind a profile set on 'private'. I also have most of my ebooks featured on GR and they are not rated too badly, thank you very much. I am not on Amazon because I hate the way they try to have control on you. As for not being good enough, a few of my stories were illegally copied by fraudsters who then sold them on Amazon...until I raised a stink, making Amazon delete those illegal copies. I write as a hobby, not to make money and my goal is to be able to entertain others around the World and Free-Ebooks.net did just that for me.
Th..."
Mellie, you got it all wrong. The regular members at Free-Ebooks.net pay an initial fee of $5.00 and that's it. That's a one-time fee, not a monthly fee. The same for VIP members, who pay a one-time fee of $190.00, good for life. As an author published by the site, I only pay $5.00 for every ebook I submit for publication, to cover the admin handling cost. All the books I submitted were accepted and put online with 2-3 days, time for the editorial staff to ensure that my story does not promote hatred/illegal acts. As for being a 'novice writer not good enough to get self-published on Amazon', you better review your response, fast! You criticized without checking your facts, while you hide behind a profile set on 'private'. I also have most of my ebooks featured on GR and they are not rated too badly, thank you very much. I am not on Amazon because I hate the way they try to have control on you. As for not being good enough, a few of my stories were illegally copied by fraudsters who then sold them on Amazon...until I raised a stink, making Amazon delete those illegal copies. I write as a hobby, not to make money and my goal is to be able to entertain others around the World and Free-Ebooks.net did just that for me.

You’re paying them to give your books away for free, while they charge readers as well. Certainly sounds like a scam.
I (and probably most other readers) am quite happy to shop Amazon, AppleBooks etc for good books to read, I’d rather pay $5 for a decent read on Amazon than navigate some spam looking site for a pdf from writers of dubious quality. But the advantage of such a place means readers can (and probably do) avoid it.

Yes. Amazon bought GR some years ago and they can pull data from here.

Yeah, I know that Amazon owns Goodreads. I wanted to bring attention to the fact that Goodreads is owned by Amazon.
When I shop amazon for books, I go for the free books.

Sorry, I thought you were asking, as opposed to pointing out the obvious to someone who claims to “hate” Amazon.
I also pick up freebies from Amazon. When I find a book I enjoy, I am happy to pay up to $7/book to continue with the series. I subscribe to the BookBub newsletter and find free/99 cent deals through that to load up my device.

I like to have a book in my hands and that’s why I prefer paperback, although, I do own a lot of ebooks. I pay between 10 cents to 50 cents for a paperback book. I buy books from the library, thrift stores and garage sales. I love when the library also clean out their shelves and put their books amongst the books for sale. I buy cheap, so if a book turns out to be a book that I would not keep, I can donate it.
I like that libraries have team up with Libby, Overdraft and Hoopla. I can borrow ebooks from them. I can’t pay a lot of money for a book and if I don’t like it, I will feel like I have wasted my money.
Mellie wrote: "Michel wrote: “ I only pay $5.00 for every ebook I submit….."
You’re paying them to give your books away for free, while they charge readers as well. Certainly sounds like a scam.
I (and probabl..."
Your arguments are made in complete bad faith. Yes, I pay ONCE the huge sum of $5.00 to have my book published online, while a regular member of Free-Ebooks.net pays ONCE a lifetime fee of $5.00 to have the right to download up to five ebooks per month. And you insinuate that this is a scam to make money on my back? You say that you enjoy freebies at Amazon and then are ready to pay up to $7.00 per book to continue to read a serie that you like. Well, a Free-Ebooks.net member who have been a member for, say, two years, will not need to pay a cent for my book and will then also be able to download for free sequels in that series. As for me not being paid for my books, that is a consciencious choice on my part, as I write strictly as a hobby and am not interested in making money with them. As for being a writer of dubious quality, know that my ebooks listed on GR have an average rating of 4.08, which is a more than decent average rating, thank you very much. By the way, I write in English, which is a second language for me, yet still get good ratings, both on GR and on Free-Ebooks.net. And what books have you written yourself? Your opinion thus counts for zero to me. The goal of my message #39 was simply to ask what classification my books would be under: Indie author, self-published author, partnership author? You could have simply suggested an answer to that question, instead of poo-pooing books you haven't even looked at?
You’re paying them to give your books away for free, while they charge readers as well. Certainly sounds like a scam.
I (and probabl..."
Your arguments are made in complete bad faith. Yes, I pay ONCE the huge sum of $5.00 to have my book published online, while a regular member of Free-Ebooks.net pays ONCE a lifetime fee of $5.00 to have the right to download up to five ebooks per month. And you insinuate that this is a scam to make money on my back? You say that you enjoy freebies at Amazon and then are ready to pay up to $7.00 per book to continue to read a serie that you like. Well, a Free-Ebooks.net member who have been a member for, say, two years, will not need to pay a cent for my book and will then also be able to download for free sequels in that series. As for me not being paid for my books, that is a consciencious choice on my part, as I write strictly as a hobby and am not interested in making money with them. As for being a writer of dubious quality, know that my ebooks listed on GR have an average rating of 4.08, which is a more than decent average rating, thank you very much. By the way, I write in English, which is a second language for me, yet still get good ratings, both on GR and on Free-Ebooks.net. And what books have you written yourself? Your opinion thus counts for zero to me. The goal of my message #39 was simply to ask what classification my books would be under: Indie author, self-published author, partnership author? You could have simply suggested an answer to that question, instead of poo-pooing books you haven't even looked at?

At least if you get a book "free" through a Kindle Unlimited subscription the author can get paid something through pages read. Last I knew, that amount was $0.0045, less than half a cent a page. But it was better than nothing.
And don't even get me started on the trend of returning books read that were paid for. People who do this think they are only sticking it to Amazon. Wrong. Amazon takes the money back from the authors. And when I look at a statement showing purchased and returned numbers it is obvious.
A lot of time and energy goes into writing a book. If you enjoyed what you read, if a book gives you a couple of hours of relaxation and enjoyment, isn't that worth something?
For an author to use the services of BookBub, where you get your list of truly free books, the author makes nothing for pages read. In fact, they pay a hefty amount of money to BookBub. Some genres cost over $800 for a BookBub placement. It is the cost of advertising so hopefully readers will come back to read other books by that author.
Despite what headlines you might read about authors making over 6 figures, most authors have to have a second income, they can't live on writing alone.
If you like to read, support the authors whose books you like to read by buying their books.