Play Book Tag discussion

A few months ago, my library abolished overdue fines. This seems to be happening all over the country. Thoughts? Has this changed your library habits?

It is the wave of the future. Many libaries have stopped charging fines for late books - part of this can be attributed to the availability of books from the web. You are cut off from a certain book when your time runs out. My library in Florida also stopped overdue fines several months ago but it was after the Friends gave the county (which owns the 7 libraries in our system) a large sum of money -- maybe $10,000 or something like that. I was against it but got talked out of protesting at a county commission meeting because we were looking for a new lib director and the Friends have more money than some of those fat cats who are elected to official positions in my county. We all pay a large property tax and I believe libraries are public goods like roads and bridges and street lights so the county should pay for the libraries. People (like our former library director and some of the Friends) see us paying the county to stop having fines. It is a public bribe and I think the county should just pay for the public good. If the county can not pay for it with the taxes we pay, perhaps they could reduce their salaries and stop redoing their offices and sell some of the county cars. But I am not popular in the Friends or with the retiring lib director. We have a new library director as of this month (outsider -- all internal candidates were turned down) so I am hoping for good attitudes about books and libraries being public goods. The no charge for late books has not changed my library habits - but my vote should not count here. I used to do volunteer work at the libs and no volunteers were ever charged late fees. When I slowed down my volunteering, the system never changed my status. This depends on what you consider public goods, those things which everyone should have an opportunity to use for the public taxes we pay. peace, janz

Yes, I totally agree, Peacejanz! My kids went to what were considered "inner city" schools. Many of their classmates never used the library because they had "lost their privileges". These kids had lives where the family might get evicted and lose track of a book, or their cousin "borrowed" their library card, took something out and it disappeared. Or the book got damaged by a younger sibling. Even if they had the money, they felt ashamed or judged and avoided the place. The sad thing is these were the very kids who could use more computer access, homework help, and other services the library provided.

I've seen some articles saying that the time and work involved in sending out late notices, collecting cash fines, making change, taking money to the bank, etc. offset much of the actual money paid. The overall amounts weren't enough to have a big impact on the library budget. Many fines were quite small but had an outsize impact on the patrons' comfort level with the library (and the librarians, while wonderful people, often didn't look like the surrounding community.)

Some libraries first got rid of fines on children's books, senior citizens' books, etc. but most have eliminated it, including huge systems like New York City. They might still charge a patron the price of a book if it isn't returned after a generous length of time, and I'm sure even then they would work with patrons as needed.

I am always conscious of due dates regardless of fines, and the internet age helps a lot because you can get email reminders, check your account online, don't have to worry about losing the due date slip (of course, some of us remember the stamped cards in books way back when!) When I get a book that other people are waiting for, I try to return it as soon as I finish, rather than wait for the due date.

I agree, Robin P. I try to rush through a book when there is a serious waiting list. I remember one time, I put a book on hold and checked the waiting list. I was 58th. It was a popular book with lots of good reviews. I was so frustrated,Ii just went out that day and purchased the book. I read it, then took it into the library and gave it to them, insisted that I get a book plate with my name (foolishly thinking that would encourage others to purchase books and give them). Later I did volunteer work for several years - a book plate of a donated book takes extra time of hard workers who are processing books into the library. And it does not encourage others to donate. Anyway, now that I have volunteered my time in the tech services departmetn, I no longer insist on a book plate. I just donate the book if it will take forever for my name to come up on the wait list. And I agree with you - the people who need the books have a hard time getting them, keeping track of them. they have a hard enough time anyway. I do not do scheduled volunteer time anymore but I go to the library often - and am always pleased when I hear positive comments about the new no fee late books. Our signs all say, just bring the book back - forget the late penalty. Books are a public good - just like sidewalks. We can all use them for free. peace, janz

@Peacejanz, I just love this idea! I buy very few books and utilize the library extensively. I tend to avoid reading new releases b/c the waiting list is too long (besides, there are enough great books that are available now). Why not buy some of these books and then donate them after I have read them. That's a great way to support the library and their good work. Yes, books are a public good, just like sidewalks.

My library has book boxes for book groups to check out and when I feel really rich or when I see a favorite book on sale (usually when they go to paperback), I buy 12. I remember when The Red Sparrow was new to all of us - then they made a movie and one day I saw that Amazon was selling the paperbacks for $5 or something like that. I quick bought 12 and was a real hero at my library when I walked in with the box. There are bargains around and now that I have been retired for some time and know that I will have enough money and not go to the poorhouse, I buy books that the library needs. Like you, I use the library as much as I can - I try not to buy books for myself - I have too many now. Good for you for thinking about buying books for your libs. peace, janz

Most libraries also take older used books for book sales that they hold once or twice a year, or they may have books for sale all year round in one area. They make more money from that than fines ever added up to. And there are often other fundraisers, or you can donate to a library foundation. And of course, volunteer your time, as Peacejanz did.

When I was hired at one of the public libraries where I was director, they weren't charging fines. I decided to change that since we had a very large number of overdue books in the popular/new category. People were reading a new book and then lending it to their friend or friends because they loved it and didn't have to worry about paying a fine!

Libraries live and breathe on their circulation numbers, that is how they are judged by the City leaders - those with the purse strings. We didn't have climbing circulation numbers, didn't get funding increases to buy multiple copies, and were caught between a rock and a hard place. We reinstituted fines but at a very low level so as not to break the bank, and I gave staff full power to forgive fines for any good reason. Our circ numbers climbed.

We also didn't block users with minor fines, only those truly abusing the system with fines at the highest levels. I don't like it when people stop using the library because they are blocked, especially kids.

Robin P wrote: "Most libraries also take older used books for book sales that they hold once or twice a year, or they may have books for sale all year round in one area. They make more money from that than fines e..."

Yes Robin, this is what led to my library to getting rid of fines this year. When pandemic began I had the brilliant idea of starting an on-line used bookstore, which offers curbside pick-up. 2023 marks year three of it. I also run our Lobby sales: 3 large beautiful oak bookcases, one for kids, one for all fiction, one for non-fiction.

Those two little enterprises bring in between $250-$400 a month. This more than covers any fees we might have recovered. The public loves them both, each has their own niche customers. To toot my own horns, I will tell you that I won the "Friend of the Year" award for 2021 Lovely award on my home desk and my name on an engraved plate above the IRL bookshelves. The perk for me, is of course first dibs on all donations😁

Barbara M wrote: "When I was hired at one of the public libraries where I was director, they weren't charging fines. I decided to change that since we had a very large number of overdue books in the popular/new cate..."

I guess I did not know you were a library director, Barbara! Kudos to you. I love our director and for the life of me cannot think how she keeps her cherry attitude through everything! Most especially the County Board who oversees her.

Joanne wrote: "Barbara M wrote: "When I was hired at one of the public libraries where I was director, they weren't charging fines. I decided to change that since we had a very large number of overdue books in th..."

One of the hardest things a director does is deal with the politics! The best things are the patrons and the staff!

Joanne wrote: "Robin P wrote: "Most libraries also take older used books for book sales that they hold once or twice a year, or they may have books for sale all year round in one area. They make more money from t..."

Good for you and congratulations - you deserve any award you get. peace, janz

I agree with Janz ... Joanne, you deserve that award and much more! I've stolen forwarded several of your ideas to my library. They really loved the yard signs / raffle from last summer!

Our friends group has what they call "the magic table" in the entry hall. They pick a theme (right now it's Travel), and stock the table with books that fit the theme. That little display has greatly increased their sales this past year. (Of course, they also still have the regular "sale" shelves farther in the library. Those are right next to the community jigsaw puzzle, where I frequently sit and I love watching people peruse those shelves and pick up a book or three to take home.)

As for donating books ... at my library those donated books go to the friends book sale, they don't go into circulation. Only "library bound" books go into circulation. The friends DO buy an extra copy or two of hugely popular books (I'm sure Spare will be one) and put them on the "lucky day" shelf. Those are books that a patron can check out for a maximum of 7 days - no holds, no renewal. Once the hoopla dies down (i.e. the regular hold list diminishes) the lucky day books go back to the Friends' book sale.

Our previous library director recommended that we eliminate late fines before the pandemic. I was in favor mostly for the reasons that Robin outlined above - it has an adverse impact on kids, and those with limited financial means. But our board president was adamantly against the idea and he swayed enough members that it did not pass. I think it's time to revisit this idea.

Kudos to all of you who are or have been library staff, volunteers, and active patrons. Libraries now have so much more than books - not just ebooks & audiobooks but some have subscriptions to film services, some have items to lend out like tools, some have "maker spaces" with 3-D printers, etc. They are hugely important for people learning English, looking for jobs, etc. Plus just a wonderful place even for those of us with the means to buy books. Our libraries were closed to the public for over a year in 2020-21. You could reserve books on line and pick them up outside the building, which was great. But I was thrilled just to be in that space when they reopened. I have loved libraries since childhood, and my kids have fond memories of preschool story time and a program for middle-school students to volunteer in the summer helping with the reading programs for younger kids.

My small town library does not charge late fees. This is relatively new, started during the pandemic. The board recently voted to continue the no late fee policy. We are part of a large cooperative library system (18 libraries at last count) and none of those libraries charge late fees. It doesn't seem to hurt libraries or patrons, as circulation numbers continue to increase across the system.
I am so glad my town (population around 1600) has a library, and I love that we are part of the larger cooperative system. I think libraries are so very important, and am so glad I have been able to give back since I retired and now have time to be on the library board and to volunteer there.

Libraries being part of a regional system is fantastic, along with inter library loan. As a child in a rural area, we only had the local library, and I read everything in the children's section (only a few shelves.) Then we moved to Philadelphia, where the children's room alone was maybe 4 times as big as the whole small-town library, and you could take out 5 books instead of 2. I thought I was in heaven!

That's another thing that has changed. I don't think most libraries have limits on how many books you can take out, or if they do, they are large numbers.