You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion

Cherie and I are reading this for the March weather challenge. Anyone interested in joining in is welcome.

Just finished it for March as well.

I read it as it is widely touted as one of the best Aussie books. I figured I better give it a go and see what all the fuss is about.

Overall feeling is that it almost lives up to the hype. And it's about not much, but there is something so beautiful and quintessentially Australian about it. I've read family saga style books before, but this one had so much more realness to it, than the others. Just ordinary Aussies, doing their thing, but you grow to care for the Pickles and the Lambs so much.

There's a little bit of magic realism to this book too, which I didn't really think about until Lisa pointed it out to me. I just figured that weird things happen every now and then in this country, particularly when you're alone in a big empty space or out bush, I didn't really notice it. But be interesting if you guys do as you're reading.

I started tonight but only got to page 35 before I fell asleep in my chair.

The Finger Pickles were definitely gross.

The wording and sentence structure take a little getting used to each time I pick up an Australian story but I quickly get used to it.

I am going to be reading it for the March weather challenge too so I would love to join in. I need to finish my current book, Swamplandia! first and it is taking me a while to get through so it will probably be another couple of days before I get to this.

Hah Cherie, I laughed so hard!

Change of plan. I have decided to put Swamplandia! on hold for a little while and read this instead. I will start it later today.

Woot! Peer pressure!

Rusalka wrote: "Woot! Peer pressure!"

Hehe ;)

Tbh, I think I need a break from Swamplandia! at the moment. It is a bit of an odd one, I quite like the story and some of the writing is beautiful but I am finding it a bit of a slog to get through and I am having to really force myself to pick it up each day so it feels more like a chore at present. When this happens, I find a little break usually helps.

Indeed. Reading shouldn't be a chore. Break sounds good. Hope this one isn't chore like.

Cherie, my Kindle version doesn't have page numbers, but it sounds like I got about as far as you did last night. Finger pickles is one of the last things I remember. I also fell asleep reading, and woke up when my husband took my Kindle out of my hand. I'm fine with the sentence structure, but some of the words puzzle me. I assume they are Aussie regionalisms.

Lisa, I liked Swamplandia in the end, but I did have kind of mixed feelings about it while I was reading it. I'd be interested to know what you think about it when you finish it.

Ok, I will let you know how I feel about Swamplandia! Casceil. It's interesting to hear that you also had mixed feelings about it whilst you were reading it. Hopefully I will end up liking it in the end too.

I have started and am up to page 107 which is somewhere in Part 4. The next chapter is called 'The River'.

To begin with I wasn't sure if I was going to like it but that feeling only lasted for a few chapters and now I am really enjoying it. I like the writing style and am fine with the structure. I don't understand all of the wording but I can usually have a guess as to what certain words/phrases might mean. Whether they are right guesses is a different matter ;)

Cherie, I see what you mean with regards to 'Finger Pickles'. That bit certainly made me squirm!

Rusalka, I haven't noticed much in the way of magical realism yet, except maybe the part where it mentions (view spoiler)[the people in the newspaper cuttings on Quick's bedroom wall coming to life and dancing when he is asleep. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[I like how the lives of the Pickles and Lambs seem to mirror each other and how bad luck and tragedy led to them sharing the house on Cloud Street. In terms of how they live their lives, both families are completely different. The Lambs have quite strict morals and seem to have the stronger family unit out of the two (at least outwardly) whereas the Pickles have looser morals and don't seem particularly close to each other yet in terms of what happens to them, both families are living parallel lives and not just because of their living arrangements. I find it funny how they barely have (and want) anything to do with each other initially. I get the feeling that they could actually become quite good friends, despite their differences. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[So far, I am finding I like the children of both families more than I like their parents, although I do feel sorry in a way for Dolly Pickles because she appears to have a lot of hurt bubbling away under the surface and I think there could be a lot more to her than meets the eye. I feel particularly sorry for Fish and Quick. It was sad and tragic what happened to Fish and it's not nice to see Quick blame himself for the accident and distance himself from his younger brother as you can see that Fish really loves and needs him. I am enjoying the sections written from Fish's point of view. Despite his brain damage, he is really observant and seems to notice things that pass everyone else by. I am looking forward to seeing how his story develops. The most frustrating character for me so far is Sam Pickles. I feel sorry about what happened to his hand but I wish he would stop gambling! He might be winning at the moment but it wouldn't take much for the 'shifty shadow' to move and for the family to be poor again. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[Is the house haunted? I get the feeling that it might be because there seems to be quite a few mentions of lingering smells and odd noises. The noises could just be the house creaking but perhaps there could also be a paranormal explanation? (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[How horrible was it when Wogga Mcbride got killed by the train? The descriptions, although not overly gory or vivid, really bought the horror of it to life. I literally winced! (hide spoiler)]

Me too re: Wogga.

There is a bit of Aussie slang, but also WA slang. So some of it I didn't know either!

Rusalka,
What is WA slang?

I am at page 59, the chapter called Stickability. The Lambs have just opened up their Smallgoods store. What are jubes? (Shaking out tuppenny measures of jubes). Do you know? Are they little colored pieces of dry rubbery candy? We would call them Jujubes. They used to come in a little yellow box. They were very small and hard and stuck in your teeth when they finally softened up enough to chew.

I liked the description of the house having a "wonky" aspect. "an old stroke survivor paralysed down one side".

WA = Western Australia.

Jubes = fruit flavoured lollies. Gummy and covered in sugar. Sometimes called fruit jubes, but jubes gets the message across.

Ah, we call them gum drops if they are fruit flavor and spice drops if they are so flavored( wintergreen, licorice, cinnamon etc).

I thought WA meant that, but not sure.

I like the story. What an amazing contrast between the two families. I am on pg 77. The chapter is called No Wading. I can't seem to go very fast.

My youngest daughter and her family live next door to a family like the Pickles. Their front yard is dirt and weeds and they have three broken cars in their driveway. They don't work. Becky and Dwight believe in self sustainability and grow and can their vegetables and fruit. They are raising rabbits in their backyard for meat. They would have chickens, but they are not allowed. They dug up their front yard for garden last summer. They make their own jam and jelly. I love them to death, but they make me tired.

They look like very similar to our fruit pastilles.

Ah. we have fruit pastilles too. They are much softer and not round.

Those neighbours sound much more switched on and active then the Pickles Cherie. I would love to do all of that but I run out of energy. I have been meaning to dig over the veggie patch for weeks and plant out the winter veggies... but you know.

I found it slow going until I got the swing of the language. And I didn't have the vocab issues you guys may have. I found once I got the hang of it, and relaxed into the story telling around 200pp it went a lot faster.

I'm at p. 63, and I have a question for those who have finished or are much farther along. (view spoiler)[ In the first 60 pages, we have had two bad accidents with life-changing consequences (Jake and Fish). Also, the opening pages are rather mysterious, but give the impression that someone is committing suicide. Does it keep on like this? I think reading this book is aggravating my anxiety. My son is working on a project in the back yard, and when he dropped something earlier I realized I was waiting for an explosion. I know this is not normal, but I suspect the sense of doom and bad luck surrounding Jake Pickles is making me worry more. Are there going to keep being disasters every thirty pages or so? (hide spoiler)]

Casceil, I am around the 200 page mark and the best I can say is that (view spoiler)[you never completely lose the sense that something bad could be lurking around the corner (up to this point at least) but although both families continue to have their fair share of knocks and setbacks, some quite serious, others not so much, some positive things happen for them too. The whole thing is a bit of a rollercoaster ride in that sense, there are ups and there are downs. (hide spoiler)]

I am up to the beginning of Part 6 (page 197).

(view spoiler)[I feel really sorry for Rose Pickles at the moment, having to deal with an alcoholic, cheating mother and a largely absent father who gambles his wages away. She has had to grow up so fast. Plus, she now appears to have an eating disorder and no-one in her family really seems to care or even notice, except for her father who does try to get her to eat but doesn't really understand the difficulty she is having. I am not at all surprised that she is as angry and full of hatred as she is. She seems quite taken with Fish though. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[I feel very conflicted towards Sam and Dolly. There are times when I feel a degree of sympathy towards them, particularly towards Sam when he found out about his wife's affairs and contemplated suicide, but there are others when I find myself literally wanting to slap them. Whilst on the subject of Dolly, was she really poisoned that time she became violently sick or was it just the effects of too much alcohol and heavy smoking? I wasn't sure. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[What is going on with that pig? I thought first of all that the 'talking' was all in Fish's head but Lester appeared to hear him talk too. The fact that he speaks in tongues makes me wonder if the pig is meant to be symbolic in some way, some sort of angel figure who is watching over the family perhaps? Or maybe he will help to restore their lost faith? (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[Oriel Lamb is one fierce, determined woman! I certainly wouldn't want to be in her bad books! Again, I feel conflicting emotions towards her. There are times when she appears cold, distant and unfeeling yet there are others when you realise that she is capable of great warmth and vulnerability, and that she loves her family dearly even though she doesn't always show it. Quick's disappearance in particular has definitely affected her a lot more than she lets on. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[Red Lamb certainly seems to hate the male species at the moment! I wonder if it's just a phase she is going through or whether she will always feel that way? Peeing on those boys was certainly one way to get rid of their unwanted attention! It was a bit gross though! (hide spoiler)]

I've gotten to page 112. (view spoiler)[ Right around the 90-page mark, a boy got hit by a train. Right on schedule--disaster every 30 pages. I can't believe Sam and Lest actually won that last race at the track. I was sure they were going to lose. (hide spoiler)]

Casceil wrote: "I'm at p. 63, and I have a question for those who have finished or are much farther along. [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ I keep rewritting this over and over. I would say that those are the two big life changing things that happen to both families and draw them together. But things still happen. I guess it didn't bother me that much, but I don't want to say it'll be okay as I'm not sure what your own level/limit is. Events definitely space out more. (hide spoiler)]

Lisa wrote: "I am up to the beginning of Part 6 (page 197).

[spoilers removed][spoilers removed][spoilers removed][spoilers removed][spoilers removed]"

Rose: (view spoiler)[ I feel very sorry for her too, particularly as her brothers seem completely useless too. But at the time, the girls would have been expected to pick up the flack. They weren't expected to do anything. (hide spoiler)]

Dolly (view spoiler)[ I read it as alcohol poisoning. A well earned comeuppance. (hide spoiler)]

Pig (view spoiler)[ I love him! I'm still not sure what his relevance to the story is, but I love that you hear him talking. I frequently hear sounds out of all our animals that seem like words, or other languages, so it didn't concern me too much. Of course I may have missed something lol (hide spoiler)]

Red (view spoiler)[ Oh that made me laugh and laugh. Completely deserved. If they didn't want to get peed on, they shouldn't have been doing it. They'd be prosecuted now for that! I was totally on her side lol (hide spoiler)]

I can't believe it! I just noticed that there were no " " marks around the dialogue. No wonder I keep rereading trying to understand what is happening.

Is there a specific day for doing the wash?

I read a lot of people having problems with the lack of ""s. I didn't notice until I finished the book. Each person speaks on a different line.

Not that I know of re the wash. They may have a wash day and do all of it at once, that I believe was pretty common when everyone washed by hand, but I don't think it was a set day for everyone.

It doesn't bother me that much. I have read other books like that. The Orchardist comes to mind. This story has the same feel. We are not part of the story. We are observers. Watching. Listening. Not necessarily understanding all.

I just got to page 129 in my copy. Just before Christmas and hot, hot, hot! The pig is talking to Fish. I am going to bed.

Cherie wrote: "Just before Christmas and hot, hot, hot! "

This made me laugh.
Sleep well Cherie!!

Rusalka wrote: "I read a lot of people having problems with the lack of ""s. I didn't notice until I finished the book. Each person speaks on a different line.

Not that I know of re the wash. They may have a wash..."

I noticed quite early on that there were no " ". It doesn't bother me and hasn't caused me too many problems. I have had to reread the odd line here and there but that's it.

Rusalka, (view spoiler)[I found the whole Red peeing incident quite funny too. A bit gross but funny. I agree, the boys shouldn't have been doing it and yes, they would definitely be prosecuted today.

There is quite a bit of dark humor in this book. I found the part where Lester bought the ex racehorse to help him deliver goods quite funny. I could really picture the scene of destruction after it threw him and took off. Vegetables everywhere! It was sad that the horse later lost its life because of it but the way the whole incident was described made me laugh. Probably just my strange sense of humour! (hide spoiler)]

One of the things we pride ourselves on is black humour, and this book does it perfectly. This book really does sum that up and capture that feeling I think. Australians have had the law against us, the government, the rich men, the environment, luck, and the wildlife. We beat all of that and the ramifications, while laughing at it all.

Life isn't worth living unless you laugh. We get taught that early on, and it's a lesson that's been here at least as long as English settlement (okay, so only 227 years old). And I agree Lisa, that bit had me laughing too :D Stupid bastard!

Very true Rusalka, it's always good to have a laugh and to try to find the humour in things where possible. As for "stupid bastard", that's exactly what I thought. You just knew it wasn't going to work! It certainly wasn't his finest moment, that's for sure! :)

As soon as I heard it mentioned, it wasn't happening.

Apparently there is a tv miniseries of this book. It aired in Australia in 2011 and in the UK in 2012. I don't remember hearing anything about it at all, although I hadn't heard of the book then so it's possible that there was some promotion and I just didn't take much notice. It looks pretty good so I might check it out at some point.

I knew of the book, and didn't hear about it... It's stupidly late now (for a work night I'm annoyed i'm still awake) but Ill check out in the morning. No doubt I've just missed something ;)

Night Rusalka!

Casceil wrote: "I've gotten to page 112. [spoilers removed]"

re: death of boy (view spoiler)[ I think Lisa commented on this above to. Amazing how the descripion of a sound can make it an even more horrific event. I was shocked too at how it happened. (hide spoiler)]
re: last race (view spoiler)[ I was sure they were going to lose too. (hide spoiler)]

re: Dolly and poision (view spoiler)[ I do not think it was actual poision, but more that she was so sick from the drinking, but not 100% sure (hide spoiler)].

The boat (view spoiler)[ I did not understand the whole thing about the boat and why the father bought it and suggested that Quick and Fish row it home. (hide spoiler)]

I loved the description of Mr. Lamb as looking like Randolph Scott. I have had a hard time trying to figure out whether these people were black or white, but I was pretty sure they were white.

They are definitely white.

It's pretty safe to assume in Australian historical fiction or fiction written before the 60s that everyone is white unless you are told otherwise. Actually safe to assume Anglo Saxon or Anglo Celtic unless told otherwise. Like Wogga in this book, hence his nickname.

Some reasons of why will be mentioned later in the book.

I am up to the beginning of Part 8 (page 281).

Part 6 - (view spoiler)[I was beginning to wonder where Quick had gone so it was nice to have this section dedicated to him and seeing what he got up to during his years away. I thought he was a goner when the brakes failed on the truck and he nearly ran into the train! The magical realism was quite apparent here too, what with the black man, Quick's strange dream about Fish and his luminescence. I viewed the black man as representing a side of Quick's subconscious, a side that was telling him to return to Cloudstreet and his family. As for the dreams and luminescence, I think they were representing symptoms of his illness, delusions and paleness caused by a raging fever. That's how I read it anyway, which is probably completely wrong ;) I am glad Quick was taken back to his family, it's where he truly belongs I think. (hide spoiler)]

Part 7 - (view spoiler)[Lester and Dolly! What on earth was he thinking? I actually had a funny feeling that something was going to happen along those lines but I was hoping that it wouldn't as I really do not like Dolly. I think she is a very selfish person. Hopefully it was just a one-off.

I liked the conversation that Oriel and Quick had when they went fishing for prawns together and she talked about his guilt over what happened to Fish and her own insecurities and flaws. I felt it was a really emotionally honest scene. And then they go and ride home together virtually naked after using their clothes to transport some of the prawns! That is one of things that I like about this book, one minute it's realistic, the next it's completely wacky! You never know what is coming next!

Roo ticks! Ewww! That scene where Lester removed some from Sam's back actually made me itch!

It looks like Cloudstreet could well be haunted. Fish is now seeing the shadow girl in the windowless room with the piano. Maybe she is the ghost of one of the Aborigine women who were kept there by that old woman who used to own the house? (hide spoiler)]

I started part 5 last night. Cherie, about the boat. (view spoiler)[ I don't think anyone understands why Lester bought the boat, including Lester. I think he let the money he won go to his head. He seems to have bought the boat without considering that it was too big to take home on his truck. Then, faced with no way to get it home, he had a notion that Quick could get it there. I'm wondering if he was drunk, or just exhilarated, but either way, I don't believe he was thinking. (hide spoiler)]

I am in Part 9 (page 353). The next chapter is called 'Arrest'.

Part 8 - (view spoiler)[Quick and Rose got married! I was quite pleased about that, even though the whole thing did seem to come out of nowhere. I think Rose is better suited to Quick than she was to Toby anyway. I just hope that it wasn't a 'rebound' thing that she will come to regret later on. (hide spoiler)]

Part 9 - (view spoiler)[Tragedy strikes again, with Ted dying in the sauna and Rose having her miscarriage. I have only just noticed how similar Dolly and Rose are in certain ways, mainly the way in which they deal with grief. Both start harming their bodies, Dolly by drinking too much and Rose by not eating, and both retreat into themselves and push those around them away. Rose is a much nicer person than her mother but in this there is definitely a similarity. I was glad Sam went to visit Rose to try and persuade her to help him look for Dolly. It was another emotionally honest scene and I actually found it quite moving. Although he may not always show it, Sam really loves his family and it shows through in this scene I think.

Why was Fish naked in the windowless room? Is he being controlled in some way by the ghost-like figure that Sam saw in the room with him? (hide spoiler)]

I'm somewhere past page 200 but still in part 6. I've been wondering about the pig. I think the pig is a magical realism element, but beyond that I'm not sure how to take his talking. We were talking a bit ago about dark humor. (view spoiler)[ I loved it when Sam saw being threatened by the father of the girl Ted had seduced, and Mr. Lamb came in with a meat cleaver. Sam holding up his maimed hand and talking like Mr. Lamb had done it, and the father's hasty retreat, were funny. (hide spoiler)]

I found that part funny too Casceil.

I am now up to Part 10 (page 395) so I reckon I should get it finished tomorrow.

(view spoiler)[The whole episode with the Nedlands Monster was pretty disturbing. What he did was awful so I'm glad he was caught in the end. I was convinced that he was going to end up causing harm in Cloudstreet and he very nearly did. Luckily, he hadn't reckoned on the pig being there. I love the pig, he really is quite a character! My theory is that he is meant to be some kind of guardian angel figure, seeing as how he always seems to be watching over the house and the people who live there.

Rose and Quick have returned to Cloudstreet and Rose has just given birth to their son in typically dramatic fashion. It was nice that all remaining members of both families were there to witness it. It's interesting how the sadness/darkness that seemed to have been hanging over the house has now gone. It appears that was what the house was needing, new life and new beginnings. Whilst on the subject of the birth, I thought it was hilarious when the baby was born and all Lester could think about was that Oriel had not put her false teeth in! In fact, I thought the whole scene was funny, with people in various states of undress, body parts on full view, glasses on wonky and Lester falling down the stairs! The whole thing was like a circus! (hide spoiler)]

Boat (view spoiler)[ I think it was just a impulsive buy with no real thought. I was impressed they made it, it's a long row. I think Lester had that invincible feeling and hadn't quite come down yet. (hide spoiler)]

Pig and monster (view spoiler)[ I think I am still being too literal about pig. But I wouldn't want to drop unannounced into a backyard with a giant pig in it. I've been chased by a wild boar in the bush, so I may be biased. So I'm still not sure if he's a magic pig. (hide spoiler)]

Dark humour - god that was funny.

Rose and events (view spoiler)[ It did remind me of how communal and chaotic birth must have been. I mean they were trying to take her to the hospital but it was too late. Now days it's usually more controlled and even medicalised. But the complete shambles of this one and the family made me realise how clan like and tribal they have become, but also how unexpected and sudden these events can be. And I mean that in a good way. Rose standing there starkers afterwards just made me laugh as well, because exactly, they've all seen everything now, nothing left to hide. (hide spoiler)]

I have finished! Will comment in more depth tomorrow.

I gave this 4 stars in the end. I really enjoyed it but I didn't love it which is why I didn't rate it 5 stars. I came to care about all the characters, even the not-so-nice ones, and I found it a unique, thought provoking and odd (in a good way) read. I will definitely be checking out some more of Tim Winton's work now, he is a very talented writer!

(view spoiler)[The ending was so sad! It wasn't entirely unexpected as we knew from the start that someone was about to commit suicide and the hints towards the end suggested that it would be Fish but it still packed an emotional punch. He had experienced all the things that he wanted to with regards to the house and the two families and it appeared that he died happy as a result. It reminded me a bit of the film 'Ghost' except he wasn't an actual ghost, although a large part of him died when he had the accident as a child. It was like he was kept alive in order to watch over the house and the two families and once they were settled and more or less happy, he was able to move on and pass over into death.

It nice that both families decided to stay at Cloudstreet for the rest of their days. They experienced both good and bad times there and it's fair to say that the house had truly become a hugely important part of their lives. It was good to see Oriel moving back into the house at the end and the fence that divided them coming down, symbolising that they are now one big family (or tribe as Rose calls them).

I enjoyed the magical realism. I can be a bit hit-and-miss with it as I find it doesn't always work but in this case I thought it worked well and it was fun trying to work out what the author was hinting at through its use. (hide spoiler)]

Rusalka, I have a question with regards to the bonus points for the monthly challenge. Does the line (view spoiler)["shouted her a milkshake or a spider" (hide spoiler)]count for a spider being mentioned? I have included it in my reporting post on that thread but will change it if it doesn't count.

Lol argh re bonus points (view spoiler)[ jeez what do you call them over there? Ice Cream Floaters? Or do you guys call them spiders too? No doubt you're name and the American's will be different too, if not a spider. A spider is a milkshake glass with a scoop of ice cream in the bottom, filled with soft drink. Lemonade (what we call Sprite) is traditional, but any fizzy drink will and can do. (hide spoiler)]
CAn I sleep on this? I need to be awake to consider what I wrote in the original post.

Rusalka wrote: "Lol argh re bonus points [spoilers removed]
CAn I sleep on this? I need to be awake to consider what I wrote in the original post."

Yes, we call them (view spoiler)[Ice Cream Floaters over here. Unless there has been a name change which I don't know about. (hide spoiler)]

No worries at all. There is no rush. I thought it could be a bit of a long shot which is why I asked. Keeping you on your toes ;)

I'm going to say no, and bite me in the bum too. But I said in the last ruling, "Actual, not metaphorical spiders". As this is not an a...

Actually. It is an actual spider, isn't it? The thing is a spider. If I got one, that's what I call it, that's what it is. ... I guess it counts then.