Ersatz TLS discussion

Hello, everyone

Welcome to the new thread.
As always, happy reading to all!

Thanks g.
I have been finding it difficult to settle on a book recently, trying several. The Blue Afternoon by William Boyd lasted the longest until I ceased to care what happened.
Skip reading Doctor Copernicus , Banville again has proved interesting in parts. I did become rather intrigued by the thought that Ptolemy’s idea of celestial motion lasted for so long.
Ptolemy lived about 100-170 AD and fourteen hundred years later in Europe he was still regarded as correct, strongly supported by the Catholic Church. Some Arabian mathematicians and astronomers had disputed his beliefs but it was Copernicus who first put forward the heliocentric truth. Maybe I should have written part truth there.

Ptolemy said the the Earth was fixed and motionless in the centre of the universe and the sun, planets and stars rotated around the Earth in a series of concentric circles. I read somewhere that he thought there were 51 such circles but I cannot find the reference now.

Copernicus showed that the sun was central and the planets including Earth rotated around it.
I said part truth earlier because, of course, we now now that the sun is not the centre of the universe.
In the book by Banville which I have yet to finish, Copernicus comes across as an introverted, melancholy man.

My last 48 hrs of dogsitting have commenced on a bright, cold still day, i turn 48 tommorow but no fuss envisaged, a quiet one with a hound wagging her tail maybe

Reading the following:
The Long Prospect by Elizabeth Harrower(1958)- 50s Newcastle, New South Wales and the world of a young girl and her innocent friendship with a middle aged man
Patient X by David Peace- an unusual take on the life of Japanese author Ryonsuke Akutagawa
Herzl by Shlomo Avineri - a biog looking at the life of the great visionary of a future Israeli state, very detailed and thoughtful but precise

AB76 wrote: "My last 48 hrs of dogsitting have commenced on a bright, cold still day, i turn 48 tommorow but no fuss envisaged, a quiet one with a hound wagging her tail maybe

Reading the following:
The Long P..."

🎂 happy birthday for tomorrow. I have been out for my required walk round the block today and had to get the sunglasses out, although the breeze was a bit fresh. A pleasant change after last week's incessant rain. That really got me bored as I can't drive any where for another two weeks 🤞.

CCCubbon wrote: "I did become rather intrigued by the thought that Ptolemy’s idea of celestial motion lasted for so long.
Ptolemy lived about 100-170 AD and fourteen hundred years later in Europe he was still regarded as correct, strongly supported by the Catholic Church. Some Arabian mathematicians and astronomers had disputed his beliefs but it was Copernicus who first put forward the heliocentric truth. Maybe I should have written part truth there.

Ptolemy said the the Earth was fixed and motionless in the centre of the universe and the sun, planets and stars rotated around the Earth in a series of concentric circles. I read somewhere that he thought there were 51 such circles but I cannot find the reference now.."

I forget which one it was, but at least one of the ancient Greek philosophers or early scientists proposed a heliocentric theory. But of course Ptolemy's model soon became universally accepted.

I have this lovely image of a giant Catherine wheel with Earth at the centre and all else whizzing around.
I put a photo with earth marked of the Milky Way in photos.

giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "My last 48 hrs of dogsitting have commenced on a bright, cold still day, i turn 48 tommorow but no fuss envisaged, a quiet one with a hound wagging her tail maybe

Reading the followin..."

thanks for birthday wishes, doesnt look like a lot of rain ahead, showers and weather fronts moving through

AB76 wrote: "My last 48 hrs of dogsitting have commenced on a bright, cold still day, i turn 48 tommorow but no fuss envisaged, a quiet one with a hound wagging her tail maybe

Reading the following:
The Long P..."

Happy Birthday! For 5 days you're older than me.

Paul wrote: "AB76 wrote: "My last 48 hrs of dogsitting have commenced on a bright, cold still day, i turn 48 tommorow but no fuss envisaged, a quiet one with a hound wagging her tail maybe

Reading the followin..."

thanks paul....we must be the youngest here i think!

AB76 wrote: "Paul wrote: "AB76 wrote: "My last 48 hrs of dogsitting have commenced on a bright, cold still day, i turn 48 tommorow but no fuss envisaged, a quiet one with a hound wagging her tail maybe

Reading..."

You might be right. I work with college and graduate students all day, it's a long time since I've been the youngest in any group

AB76 wrote: "giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "My last 48 hrs of dogsitting have commenced on a bright, cold still day, i turn 48 tommorow but no fuss envisaged, a quiet one with a hound wagging her tail maybe

..."

Happy Birthday... 48 is still really quite young to me... currently being in the 68 category... I really have very little idea as to where all 'the time goes'... but it goes its own merry way, wherever it goes to... You just have to make the best of it, that you possibly can... I guess...

Happy birthday AB76!

AB76 wrote: " i turn 48 tomorrow ..."

A very happy birthday, AB.
And belated or in advance birthday greetings to all my other fellow February babes!

thanks for all the birthday wishes, the dog leapt on the bed from a standing start this morning, amazing agility, would like to say it was to wish me a "happy 48th" but i am putting my dog biscuits on it was most likely a light suggestion it was time for her breakfast!

Happy Birthday :))

@Bill, in the last thread, wrote:

I don't think Doyle was saying "Write about interesting things," but "write to hold the reader's interest".

I think the three rules might be rephrased as "Write so that the reader understands what you're saying. Write so that the reader keeps reading. Write so that the reader has a unique experience."

in reply to my comment that "not all writers are interesting to all readers, and people's views of what is 'interesting' differ considerably!"

I suppose that my comment should have been more general than it was. I didn't intend to suggest that the "content" was the only way in which the author could interest - or more importantly, bore - the reader. I also meant to include in that comment the style of writing. Some authors who write about subjects which interest me are profoundly boring, and I can't read them. Others, whose subject may not at first sight be one which would obviously appeal, manage to make even the most unpromising subjects worth reading about.

"Readability" (for each individual reader) is a combination of the writer's skill and the reader's ability to empathise with what is being offered. Some writers are indigestible to some readers - because we're all different! I daresay that NO writer gains 100% approval.

Gpfr wrote: "Hello, everyone

Welcome to the new thread.
As always, happy reading to all!"

Thank you. Your efforts are much appreciated!

CCCubbon wrote: ".Skip reading Doctor Copernicus , Banville again has proved interesting in parts. I did become rather intrigued by the thought that Ptolemy’s idea of celestial motion lasted for so long.
Ptolemy lived about 100-170 AD and fourteen hundred years later in Europe he was still regarded as correct, strongly supported by the Catholic Church. Some Arabian mathematicians and astronomers had disputed his beliefs but it was Copernicus who first put forward the heliocentric truth. Maybe I should have written part truth there.

As you may know, I am not an admirer of Banville (though on scant evidence, I must admit). I feel disinclined to gather more evidence...

Anyway, Banville is not a graduate in any subject, so I'm not sure why he has thought it appropriate to fictionalise the lives of historical scientists. Has he even researched the subject in depth?

First of all - (from Wikipedia)

Heliocentrism[a] (also known as the Heliocentric model) is a superseded astronomical model[b] in which the Earth and planets revolve around the Sun at the center of the universe. Historically, heliocentrism was opposed to geocentrism, which placed the Earth at the center. The notion that the Earth revolves around the Sun had been proposed as early as the third century BC by Aristarchus of Samos,[1] who had been influenced by a concept presented by Philolaus of Croton (c. 470 – 385 BC).

In other words - the theory was around long before Ptolemy. I am not sure why this theory was rejected (or forgotten) until re-invented by Copernicus. (It's interesting that way back then, theories could be 'forgotten' for hundreds of years, whereas nowadays accurate thinking can be swamped by 'alternative facts' - or "lies" as some of us would call them - propounded by bigmouth bloviators on social media. See the rubbish denigration of 'global warming', for example.)

Secondly, it was interesting to me (reading just now) that the first objections to Copernicus came not from the Catholic church, but from Protestants - and that opposition continued. It seems that dogmatic theologians of all stripes conspired to suppress a valid scientific theory, because it didn't fit their world view. Who would have thought it?

Third - I don't know much about Copernicus, but one of the most interesting results of his publication was the support it gained from Galileo - who was tried by a Roman Inquisitor and sentenced to house arrest for his support. (That's a long story in itself, told many times in books and plays.) It was interesting to discover that Copernicus had been a Catholic canon. I was aware that he delayed publication of his theory - for whatever reason - until a few short years before his death.

As with may brilliant individuals of the time, Copernicus not only contributed significantly to astronomy but also to economics... it's odd to think now of how such people could range far and wide in the presumably relatively unformed academic disciplines. Hard to imagine an astronomer contributing to economic theory nowadays, or vice versa!

AB76 wrote: "My last 48 hrs of dogsitting have commenced on a bright, cold still day, i turn 48 tommorow but no fuss envisaged, a quiet one with a hound wagging her tail maybe.."

Happy Birthday!

by Ross Macdonald

Another excellent outing for Macdonald's California-based gumshoe - the sixth in the series. Archer is hired by a Canadian to trace his missing wife... the trail leads to a club where the wealthy sun themselves and generally lead a more or less hedonistic lifestyle. This one has rather more corpses than usual, and Archer seems to get bashed on the noggin more often than in most of the other books. Well up to standard.

And, following on from my interest in Macdonald - whose real name was Kenneth Millar -
by Tom Nolan

Only part of the way into this, but am thoroughly enjoying it. Poor old Ken Millar had a really tough childhood, which no doubt explains some of his behaviour later on. More when I've finished it.

scarletnoir wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: ".Skip reading Doctor Copernicus , Banville again has proved interesting in parts. I did become rather intrigued by the thought that Ptolemy’s idea of celestial motion lasted for so..."
Yes the book is not very good but I did find Copernicus theories interesting which led me to look at Ptolemy again and you, too, to delve back so it cannot all be a waste of time
Copernicus was also a doctor of medicine for the health of many people although I don’t believe that he had very much knowledge but had studied - he was a student for many years in many disciplines.
One medical complaint mentioned a few times along with the dreadful results to sufferers was that of syphilis - that was awful.
It was first recorded in Italy in 1495 and Copernicus was certainly there in the early years of the sixteenth century.
Syphilis is bacterial. It had various names, the French Disease, the Christian, the Italian and so on - blame it on another country! Rather like the Spanish flu pandemic that didn’t originate in Spain but the US and spread when troops from there came over to Europe.
But back to syphilis. It was fairly common up until antibiotics came along. I found this reference which may or may not be true but others might know.
Among those greats who may have had syphilis are the composers Ludwig van Beethoven and Franz Schubert, the writers Oscar Wilde and James Joyce, and political figures such as Napoleon Bonaparte. Many other renowned people probably had the illness too, writes Deborah Hayden in her book Pox: Genius, Madness, and the Mysteries of Syphilis.

Happy Birthday AB

They're beautiful bill. :)

lovely sight bill, i saw three deer yesterday, they were hiding in a hedgerow and leapt accross the fields in the cold morning air, three roe deer

scarletnoir wrote: " by Ross Macdonald

Another excellent outing for Macdonald's California-based gumshoe - the sixth in the series. Archer is hired by a Canadian to trace his mis..."

i have a macdonald on my pile but as i have other crime novels on the TBR list...i may leave that one this year. I try not to read more than 2 crime novels a year, prefer less formulaic fare

CCCubbon wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: ".Skip reading Doctor Copernicus , Banville again has proved interesting in parts. I did become rather intrigued by the thought that Ptolemy’s idea of celestial ..."

Apparently Cesare Borgia contracted syphilis. Couldn't have happened to a nicer man!

Thanks for the new thread G. No connection between this and the above paragraph. 🤣

Happy birthday, AB. At 48, you straddle the centuries.

I downloaded the book mentioned above by Deborah Hayden as interested to learn more. A quick glance gives so many famous names from kings and queen, statesmen, artists, composers and violent killers with recorded symptoms. Understandably to some extent there was much secrecy surrounding recorded details and it is missing from death certificates. Not really surprising given the progress of the disease which could lead to disfigurement and madness.
I will give more info another time if anyone is interested

After I took the picture of the three deer in our backyard, I went to the front to shovel out the sidewalk and driveway.

The three came running around the house; when they got to the street, two ran in front of a car (without getting hit) while the third stopped and ran back into the backyard. There's very little traffic today because of the snow; it was almost like they timed their dash to play a game of "chicken".

Russell wrote: "Happy birthday, AB. At 48, you straddle the centuries."

thanks russell!

scarletnoir wrote: "Some authors who write about subjects which interest me are profoundly boring, and I can't read them. Others, whose subject may not at first sight be one which would obviously appeal, manage to make even the most unpromising subjects worth reading about.."

I was thinking about making a similar point in the last week's post to which you've replied. Because of the tendency to pursue subjects of interest to me, I guess I've read far more uninteresting writing on subjects of interest than I have interesting writing on subjects that seemed unpromising.

For me, Conan Doyle is one writer who is worth reading on any subject, even those that are obviously ridiculous, like the existence of fairies.

giveusaclue wrote: "AB76 wrote: "My last 48 hrs of dogsitting have commenced on a bright, cold still day, i turn 48 tommorow but no fuss envisaged, a quiet one with a hound wagging her tail maybe

Reading the followin..."

Happy birthday. Hope for a dry day.

Bill wrote: ""

Beautiful. I lived in a suburban house where deer and coyotes popped out of the woods. Hard to get deer to stand still.

Lovely photos, Bill.

CCCubbon wrote: "the book is not very good but I did find Copernicus theories interesting"

I don't doubt for a moment that Copernicus is worthy of study, and of biographies both 'historical' and 'fictionalised'. I'm not sure that Banville is either the best person - or the best qualified person - to carry that out.

I did mention in my comment that Copernicus (as did many other exceptional people of that era) made significant contributions in a number of areas, though I didn't specifically mention medicine. No idea when or where syphilis started - I had an idea that I read somewhere it came to Europe from the Americas, as a swop for measles and other then-fatal diseases for populations lacking any built-in immunity, which travelled in the other direction. I suspect that the origin of that and other diseases will be fairly conclusively proved as scientific techniques improve and the DNA record of ancient skeletons is investigated.

Another famous person suspected of succumbing to syphilis was Nietzsche, though I'm unsure whether any investigation on his remains has been carried out. There is some uncertainty about the diagnosis.

Bill wrote: ""

Lovely pictures, though I don't envy you the weather!

AB76 wrote: "i have a macdonald on my pile but as i have other crime novels on the TBR list...i may leave that one this year. I try not to read more than 2 crime novels a year, prefer less formulaic fare"

I wouldn't describe Macdonald as formulaic, exactly... though it would be overstepping it to completely reject that implied criticism. Like the best crime fiction, the books not only deal in a crime (who did it?) but far more than that, gives a picture of the people and places it depicts - southern California in the 1950s and '60s. They are certainly far closer to historical novels than to plot-let but psychologically unconvincing 'whodunits', where all that matters is the invention of some seemingly watertight alibi which proves to be false.

The descriptions of place and the psychology of most characters are very well done indeed.

Bill wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: ".I guess I've read far more uninteresting writing on subjects of interest than I have interesting writing on subjects that seemed unpromising."

By now, I tend not to commit to whole books without carrying out some 'due diligence', such as downloading a sample onto the KIndle and reading that before buying. (Pre-Covid, I'd browse for a while in bookshops and read a few pages.) When it comes to newspaper articles, I often dip in to subjects which aren't favourites if the initial premise seems promising. At times, these articles fascinate; at others, not so much and I abandon them.

scarletnoir wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "the book is not very good but I did find Copernicus theories interesting"

I don't doubt for a moment that Copernicus is worthy of study, and of biographies both 'historical' and '..."

Yes, it does seem as if he did suffer from syphilis he was admitted to a clinic in Basel in 1866 with Syphilit. infect

Syphilis in Europe seems to have started after Columbus visited Hispaniola in about 1493/4 - Columbus was certainly ill, paralysed and mad with long periods of illness on his return and during the voyages. The disease was unknown in Europe before but of course there is a faint chance that an old lurking bacteria suddenly changed.
The first major outbreak occurred in Naples so it spread very quickly.
Copernicus’ brother Andreas has syphilis.
It killed several million over the next 500 years but that was tiny compared to the many millions in the Americas who had no immunity to European diseases - influenza etc.
The Spanish invasion that wrought such havoc was the result of this lack of resistance not really armed conflict although that played a small part.

Parasol Against the Axe by Helen Oyeyemi

No, I haven't read this book - but I was intrigued by a line from a review in today's 'Guardian':

The themes are love, history, identity, and – most fundamentally of all – the essential subjectivity of the act of reading; the notion that, when we open a book, we’ll each discover something different inside.

Of course, that reflects my mantra that "we're all different", and that a book loved by some may be hated by others, which is fair enough. I've never understood why some readers feel personally insulted when one rejects their positive view of a book; both POVs reflect individual difference. Rejecting a book does not imply a rejection of the reader, but a simple difference in reaction to it, which will have all sorts of roots and reasons. I may read this one.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/202...

I don't think everyone peruses the 'Films' sub-topic here, but on the subject of a love of reading you may be interested in my review of a recent TV film in French, which I recommend: 'L'Énchanteur' (The Storyteller), about Romain Gary and his second win of the Prix Goncourt. I liked it a lot.

On the subject of artists making unpromising subjects interesting, I also read two film reviews in this morning's Guardian: one deals with a re-release of 'Interview with the Vampire' (1994, director Neil Jordan) - the title tells you all you need to know about the subject:
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2024...

The other is 'Perfect Days' (2023, Wim Wenders) which deals with days in the life of a Tokyo toilet cleaner:
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2024...

It should be easy to guess which of these films I'm keen to see.

scarletnoir wrote: "On the subject of artists making unpromising subjects interesting, ... 'Perfect Days' (2023, Wim Wenders) ..."

Yes, I really recommend this film which I saw In December, #1186 in the "Films, Series" topic.
gladarvor loved it too.

Just started a novel by a Uyghur author called The Backstreets, the author Pernat Tursun disappeared into the chinese detention centres a few years ago and the same fate befell the co-translator of this novel

Published by Columbia Uni Press, it is set in Urumqi the polluted largest city of Xinjang(the region where Uyghers live and form the majority of the population) and it has elements of Kafka and Camus already, a city of fog and dislocation. (Urumqi itself is not Uyghur majority)

I remember a lively chat with a Hong Konger on my commute 16 years ago, i mentioned to him that my brother was in Kashgar(a Uyghur city) and travelling along the Silk Rd and was going to Urumqi next. He looked at me with a slight grin and said "Urmuqi no good, nuclear testing site" and then we continued to discuss his daughter graduating

Gpfr wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "On the subject of artists making unpromising subjects interesting, ... 'Perfect Days' (2023, Wim Wenders) ..."

Yes, I really recommend this film which I saw In December, #1186 ..."

Thanks for that!

I finished the second volume of Cao Xueqin’s The Story of the Stone, the 18th century Chinese novel of manners, customs, parties and ceremonies in a great ducal family. Most of the older men are away on imperial service, so in this volume, of great length, it is again mainly the story of Bao-Yu, the young man born with the mysterious piece of jade in his mouth. He likes to hang out with his grandmothers and aunts and the female cousins and senior maids, who all live in the same huge compound, large enough to contain a water-garden park you can get lost in. He and the cousins are all adept at writing poetry of a mild and decorative nature. While I appreciated the more coherent structure of this volume, and the occasional dark variation away from the unceasing round of visits - there are two savage beatings, two suicides, some life-threatening illnesses, and a passage on the difficulty a wife has in finding a good concubine for her husband ("you can never trust those girls you get from the dealers”) – the overall tone is set by the affairs of the Poetry Society. The translation, by David Hawkes, is marvellously naturalistic. I doubt I shall read volumes 3, 4 and 5.

Russell wrote: "I finished the second volume of Cao Xueqin’s The Story of the Stone, the 18th century Chinese novel of manners, customs, parties and ceremonies in a great ducal family. Most of the older men are aw..."

i must read vol 2, i loved vol 1 in all its bawdy, earthy glory, which i read about 10 years ago

scarletnoir wrote: "It should be easy to guess which of these films I'm keen to see."

Your loathing for vampires exceeds even that of Professor Van Helsing.

I've enjoyed most vampire movies I've seen, from Nosferatu to Let the Right One In, but I've avoided the film of Interview, despite (because of?) liking the book pretty well.

Speaking of "the notion that, when we open a book, we’ll each discover something different inside," I am apparently the only reader out of hundreds of thousands, if not a million or more, to realize that Housekeeping is actually a vampire novel.

Bill wrote: "Your loathing for vampires exceeds even that of Professor Van Helsing.

I've enjoyed most vampire movies I've seen, from Nosferatu."

That's an exaggeration... I have never read a book about vampires, but I have seen 'Nosferatu' on two occasions... it's important from a cinema history POV, and who can forget that moment when the vampire, completely stiff, rises up from his coffin? Terrific stuff.

We also had a dramatic moment last time I saw it at a special showing on Halloween about 5 years ago... the film was put on at a local museum with live piano accompaniment. An interval was arranged for the reel to be changed, and for the pianist to have a break; during this, there was a terrific bang and everyone jumped... a spectator had fainted just outside the room. She was very lucky, as she'd fainted on the landing a few inches from the top of a long and steep staircase. The museum used to be a cinema when I was young, and I did see some Hammer/Dracula films at that age, but not since. I have no interest in modern vampire films.

Bill wrote: "
I've enjoyed most vampire movies I've seen, from Nosferatu to Let the Right One In, but I've avoided the film of Interview, despite (because of?) liking the book pretty well.

Speaking of "the notion that, when we open a book, we’ll each discover something different inside," I am apparently the only reader out of hundreds of thousands, if not a million or more, to realize that Housekeeping is actually a vampire novel."

I haven't read Housekeeping but I did like Interview when I read it way back in the late '70s or early '80s. The sequel was great fun as well, The Vampire Lestat. But the next one was a dud so I never carried on with any more of Rice's vampire books. I did read her one about another of the classic Universal monsters, in this case a mummy (sort of), Ramses the Damned, and that was an entertaining page-turner too.