The Catholic Book Club discussion

1. Use this for thoughts and comments that don't fit one of the other questions, or that come to you as reading, along the way.

Have we read this book in this book club within the past year or two? It seems so familiar!

Jill wrote: "Have we read this book in this book club within the past year or two? It seems so familiar!"

We read The Restless Flame: A Novel about Saint Augustine and one of my favorite The Last Crusader: A Novel about Don Juan of Austria about John of Austria. I think I said it in another section of this discussion. The work of Louis de Wohl must be evaluated as in everything. So I'm not surprised that Jill thinks she's read it before.

I have been very surprised and very favorably by the image they give here of King Edward I. For me the last Crusader King and one of the best kings of England, despite his bad character. This image is closer to that of films like "The Black Rose" by Thomas B. Costain, and the opposite of the one offered of this sovereign in Braveheart, which is a great film, but anti-historical.

I couldn't get out, but I would have liked very much if Hermman von Salza had made his appearance, if not in this novel. At least in the previous "The Joyful Beggar: A Novel of St. Francis of Assisi". Here he could not leave, because he was already dead. I bought the novel before this one, waiting for it to come out and I was monumentally disappointed. I hope someone writes a good novel about this very interesting character and, in a Catholic key, of course.

The first thing I must say about Frederick II is that I am very strange, but unlike my fellow historians, he professed an enormous antipathy to this particular historical figure. My colleagues tend to praise him a lot, because of the hatred that the Papacy had for him and because he got Jerusalem by negotiating and without fighting in the sixth crusade. But they fail to say that this coward did not lift a finger when the Mongols attacked Poland and threatened the Holy Roman Empire. Against the pope he did have arrests. I really don't know what would have happened if Ogodai hadn't died after the battle of Lignica. This shows me that Frederick is more of an Italian monarch than a German one, and it is also embarrassing not to talk about his grave sin of omission during the Mongol invasion.

Maybe I read it in another book club!! Opening with the giraffe and its "familiar" is certainly memorable!

Jill wrote: "Maybe I read it in another book club!! Opening with the giraffe and its "familiar" is certainly memorable!"

Yes, something sounds familiar to me from a zoo that Frederick II has at the beginning. This shows its nature given to excesses and imbalances.

I will participate in the discussion

We observe a fascinating case in chapter II in which the character Sir. Piers Rudde (I did not remember that he was English, but I am not surprised since Louis de Wohl spent a lot of time in England) is forced to do a lesser evil or, let loose an unofficial lie when Caserta asks him if he has seen the abbot of Monte Cassino. By the way, what a great Catholic Frederick II who attacks one of the great monasteries of Christendom. I still remember the criticism the Americans received for ridding Italy of the Nazis, the criticism they received for destroying it. It seems to me that we are facing a shameful double standard on the part of historians who idolize the nefarious Frederick II.

By the way, Frederick II reminds me a lot of our King Alfonso X of Castile whose desire was to be elected Emperor of Germany. This is possible due to the marriage of his father Ferdinand III the Saint (a contemporary of Saint Louis who appears in this novel) with Beatrice of Swabia. What Frederick II Wohlnesian got right is that the Arabic numerals would prevail over the Latin because they are decimal. I really liked the inclusion of Leonardo Fibonacci in the novel. This mathematician appeared in the novel by the Dutch writer Thea Beckman called "Kruistocht in spijkerbroekKruistocht in spijkerbroek"

Fonch wrote: "We observe a fascinating case in chapter II in which the character Sir. Piers Rudde (I did not remember that he was English, but I am not surprised since Louis de Wohl spent a lot of time in Englan..."

Although I like the way St. Thomas Aquinas does it, he deceives him by telling him the truth in such a way that the Count of Caserta misinterprets what Aquinas is saying.

She has a very curious name: Piers' mother (Elfleda). I don't know the Saxon names that the root Aelf has, that is, Elf, they attract me a lot. In fact, I really like the name Alfred. I suppose it must be a Tolkienian influence

From a young age, Thomas is amazingly articulate, even in his one-liners and quick responses.
Isn't it ironic, given the Countess' concerns, that the Aquino name endures only because of Thomas.
Shouldn't he feel a bit of remorse for attacking red Barbara with a burning log?
I found it very sad, all those priests saying Mass by themselves. Concelebration was a great fruit of Vatican II!!

But Jill Saint Thomas did this truly it is not a Louis de Wohl invention. Louis de Wohl tells this of the Saint Thomas Aquinas annecdotes

My problem with biographical novels, such as those by Louis de Wohl, is the fact that one doesn't always know what really happened and what was invented by the author.

In this case, as Fonch indicated, the anecdote is true, although the name of the slut (red Barbara) has probably been invented by de Wohl.

When we read the biographical novel about S. Augustine, I solved this problem by reading at the same time Augustine's Confessions. Now I am reading Chesterton's biography of St. Thomas.

Manuel wrote: "My problem with biographical novels, such as those by Louis de Wohl, is the fact that one doesn't always know what really happened and what was invented by the author.

In this case, as Fonch indic..."

On this subject I did not imagine King Edward leaving the carriage and horses to St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Albert the Great and St. Bonaventure so that they arrive in time to defend themselves against Peter Saint-Amour and his critique of the "Modern Times". I believe that Barbara is a fabrication, and it is very likely that most of the events in which Sir Piers Rudde participates are fiction. The turkey thing is true, but I find it difficult that the Countess of Chatillon is the one who offers the turkey to Saint Thomas Aquinas, but I think that the fact that you cannot distinguish what is fiction and what is non-fiction is part of Louis de Wohl's mastery. I have been watching the life of Federico Hohestaufen and, it is all true. I have not found any errors, or any inaccuracies. We must find that Louis de Wohl wrote a History of the Catholic Church. Founded on a Rock: A History of the Catholic Church

Manuel wrote: "My problem with biographical novels, such as those by Louis de Wohl, is the fact that one doesn't always know what really happened and what was invented by the author.

In this case, as Fonch indic..."
What I agree with the Professor is that they used a prostitute to tempt St. Thomas Aquinas, and try to separate him from his vocation as a mendicant brother, because it seemed little to his mother who wanted a more promising and material future for her son, but I do not believe that the prostitute was called Barbara.

It's a peacock, not a turkey!!

Oh i am sorry Jill it is the problem of the translator of Microsoft. With all i would eat a Turkey or a peacock now 🤤😋

The romance between Piers and Theodora likes me really much. Also her story of love with Saint Severine. These events told by Louis de Wohl told the civil war between Welfs and Gibelines. (In Mojados i have not the computer and i can not correct my grammar mistakes 😔).

A part of Rainold the rogue-poet i like really much Saint Severine. About the historical characters i liked really much Edward I. Dan Jones in his history of the crusaders is very unfair and cruel with him White he praises to Richard Lionheart that he was more cruel than Edward I. I have heard that Edward I had Bad temperament.

I wanted to apologize for no participating more in this discussion i went to the house's Village of my parents in a Valladolid's Village and i have not a computer. I can not reply better in english for this reason i have not participated more in this discussion. I am sorry.

I thought that the image of Roger Bacon would be more negative but this novel is coser to the Roger Bacon's image of the movie "Black Rose" based on the Thomas E Costain's novel of the same novel. It is one of my favorite novels.

I think that i said previously but one of my favorite scenes of this novel is when Sir. Piers Rude shows the Paris University to the King Edward I and i could see to the genius of the Middle age Scholastic Hales, Saint Bonaventure, Saint Albert Magnus, Roger Bacon and Saint Thomas these people are my heroes and the responsables of the renassaince in Europe.

The Renaissance of the Twelfth Century https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1... In this book by Charles Homer Haskins is about i said previously the Middle Age Renassaince of the 12th century although this novel was of the 13 th century.

I finally finished this book about Thomas Aquinas. I enjoyed the liberties that the author took without much written history to go on. I don’t mind the backstory surrounding Thomas, for example, the “night and shining armor“ and the princess. I just came across another book that described the woman as putting “un-due” expectations on her husband when her husband wasn’t even that type of character. Thus, to his detriment, did he suffer.

I enjoyed the description of Thomas as an ox. I enjoyed the fact that there was only one thing he was afraid of, and that was the Lord. The thrill of debates. Proving the old Greek and muskem philosophers wrong.

Having just finished this, I am skipping ahead and reading parts of Hydra. I’m seeing a theme dealing with reason, philosophy, religion, and as we get into hydra, atheismatheism and the works of Satan, trying to pull man’s soul away from God .
This is a great bookclub and I appreciate everybody’s book nominations. Many of these books I never would’ve read on my own. Thank you.

Hello Jane i creer up that you enjoyed of "Quiet light". "Bheading hydra" will not read until october. I have heard a lot about Dwight Longenecker for this reason will be a very interesting book.

Jane wrote: "I finally finished this book about Thomas Aquinas. I enjoyed the liberties that the author took without much written history to go on. I don’t mind the backstory surrounding Thomas, for example, th..."

Jane, I would recommend you also consider reading Poor Banished Children with us in September. I have started now because I will be walking in Spain in September and want to make sure I finish before leave - no books in my backpack - and also because I left this month's read on an airplane. It is quite good so far and I'm very glad we selected it.

Yes, I intend to. Thanks

Fiorella will be enchanted. I will share my review of "Poor Banished Children" when the discussion was clase to concluye. Offering an interesting moral dilemma and the slavery of Berberian pirates, which did not conclude until the 19th century.