Dickensians! discussion

Peter wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: "I enjoyed today’s chapter, which seemed slightly shorter than usual. We leaned more about the characters of both Miss La Creevy and Noggs, and the more I see of each of them, th..."

Mrs Nickleby and Mr Micawber in the same room! That would be a sight to see (or a "conversation" to behold as it were; neither would get a word in edgewise!)

Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "I was rather shocked at Nicholas' naivety when he basically shouted at Miss Squeers that his only hope and thought was to one day be "able to turn my back upon this accursed place, never to set foo..."

I was shocked when I read this as well! I also cheered Nicholas on, I do have to admit. However, the ramifications will be dire.

We've moved on to chapter 13, but I did want to remark on my favorite line from chapter 12: "Spite is a little word; but it represents as strange a jumble of feelings and compound of discords, as any polysyllable in the language."

One of the dearest things to me about reading is when I come across a line that makes me stop and I immediately re-read it. I have such awe for writers who can turn a phrase so well and write so beautifully!

I also enjoyed the paragraph describing 'Tilda and Fanny's argument (which, according to the narrator, was the 52nd one in a year!)

This was my favorite chapter so far! I highlighted many passages and Jean has used so many of them in the wonderful summary. I especially loved the line from Smike at the end when he tells Nicholas
you are my home- my kind friend-take me with you, pray!

I was so relieved to find Smike had left and had been following Nicholas the whole time. I was getting upset with Nicholas for not grabbing Smike and bringing him. It would have made an exclamation point on the situation after he had been unwillingly brought back to the school. So I am thankful that Smike got out again!

I loved these illustrations as well. The Phiz one is great. It is perfectly set up straight from the narrative. At first I thought it was Mrs. not Miss Squeers holding the inkstand over her head. Mrs. S was holding onto her husband’s coattail. I can only imagine the chaos that ensued.

The build up toward Nicholas’ outrage was phenomenal. You knew something was boiling when he bit his lip and wrung his hands trying to hold back after being insulted being called Mr. Puppy and told to go off to his kennel. Now we wonder what he and Smike will do and where will they go when they get to London? I’ll guess Miss La Creevy’s place and not his uncle!

The second paragraph of this chapter is a brilliant example of Dickens’s writing. (It needed a quick eye …)

Dickens’s use of comparison, contrast, innuendo, imagery … where does one begin to appreciate this paragraph? Perhaps we could start at the conclusion of the paragraph. . Dickens writes ‘as morning took place of night, the smiles gradually faded away with the friendly darkness which had given them birth.’ I see in the phrase ‘the friendly darkness which had given them birth’ a metaphor to the time when these children were still safe within their mothers’ wombs. In their mothers’ wombs was found nourishment, warmth, a high degree of safety.

Now, thrust into the world, the child has lost ‘the friendly darkness which gave them birth.’ What is left is what Dickens writes in the next paragraph: ‘Dreams are the bright creatures of poem and legend’ but as we know from the last two chapters the boys’ dreams are literally beat out of them.

There are so many characters in this novel who have presented dreams to us from Mrs Nickleby’s seemingly convoluted ramblings to Miss Squeers hopeless love of Nicholas to the delightful Miss Le Creevy’s aspiration to be a portrait artist.

Perhaps the greatest dreamer of all is Smike. He is without a family, without a home, without a future. Are any of his dreams attainable?

Lori wrote: "You knew something was boiling when he bit his lip and wrung his hands trying to hold back after being insulted being called Mr. Puppy and told to go off to his kennel."

It was when I couldn't help laughing in spite of the drama and the outrage!

The description of the boys sleeping, some of them smiling, moving like shadows and skeletons, and of the first daylight erasing dreams and smiles and a sense of security was so realistic and so accurate.

It reminded me of the descriptions and testimonies about camps, penal colonies and other infamous places where especially children who haven't done anything should not belong.

The really humorous passage on Nicholas' action, perfectly illustrated, and Smike joining Nicholas, full of hope in spite of possible difficulties ahead, already far away from well-named Dotheboys Hall, dissipated all the dark shadows for the time being. Thank you Jean!

I don't think I've ever enjoyed reading about someone getting their "just deserves" more than in this chapter when Nicholas beats Mr. Squeers. But then the chapters describing Smike and these boys are the bleakest scenarios I've read in any of the Dickens novels so far. (Thank God for the comedy infusions along the way!) This is masterful writing!!

My favorite line was this:

"Master Squeers, who, coming to his father's assistance, harassed the enemy in the rear"

Which so many of the illustrations draw perfectly! Thank you for those Jean. That really made me laugh.

I'm so glad everyone loves this fabulous chapter as much as I do. The build-up is so finely controlled, the dialogue is perfect; the words are so memorable. I'm not surprised you picked out the same parts as I did Lori 😆 (and thank you!)

Peter - you are so right that when Charles Dickens writes a superb chapter like this, we tend to remember the resounding words and dramatic events, and not the marvellous understated parts, which show just as much creative skill. Thank you so much for your close analysis of the first paragraph.

Just to say, tomorrow's chapter will be posted a little later than usual - maybe 6-8 hours or so - though I expect to get online by the end of my day, and it is ready. 😊

As with everyone I'm so glad Nicholas and Smike left, and headed off together, but I wonder, and worry, about the boys left behind. I will be interested to see if the book ever returns to Dotheboys Hall.

Also, does anyone know what a sovereign is in current pounds or dollars? Just curious

From Chapter 13 as quoted by Jean:

“A nasty, ungrateful, pig-headed, brutish, obstinate, sneaking dog.”

Does that remind anyone else of “terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day”?

It’s the title of an older American picture book.
Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day

I know many kids and adults who know those words by heart.

I wonder if Judy Viorst had read NN.

Yes, Jean, this is a wonderful chapter! Thanks for digging out all the illustrations. It’s so much fun to see the various styles. Obviously, the scene affects many as we were all cheering for Nicholas. But what will the consequences be when his uncle finds out?

How is Nicholas keeping himself so physically clean and tidy? Are the servants washing his clothes? And how does Nicholas really look as he gets on the road after a night in an empty barn? Most likely not so bad compared to the standards of the time.

‘Please, sir, I think Smike’s run away, sir.’
‘Ha!’ cried Squeers, turning sharp round; ‘Who said that?’
‘Tomkins, please sir,’ rejoined a chorus of voices.

The last sentence was my one of my favorite laugh out loud lines in the book as Dickens not only captures how quickly the young students jump at the opportunity to voice the speaker and draw attention from themselves, but does so with just a few words, which intensifies the humor, Note, Dickens repeats, the offsetting of the threat with a similar humorous construction at the end of the paragaph where Tomkins,
...the perplexed expression of whose countenance as he was brought forward, seemed to intimate that he was as yet uncertain whether he was about to be punished or rewarded for the suggestion. He was not long in doubt.

I have nothing to add to all these wonderful comments, just that I loved this chapter as well for all the pathos, drama, action one could possibly want. Especially when a mean-spirited cruel person like Mr. Squeers gets his due!! How did I miss that his first name was Wackford? Seems apropos for the way he "whacks" the boys for punishment or even if he is just displeased.

Laura - a sovereign is exactly one pound. We still have sovereigns, but they are only minted as commemorative coins, and are not in general circulation although I believe technically they are still legal tender.

Now we use pound coins, which are minted each year, but were initially struck to remind us all of those old sovereigns in their colour, since sovereigns were made of gold. But there were also pound notes, which for Victorians were large and white. (Some time in the 20th century they became smaller and green.)

And a little more ...

Miss La Creevy

Peter just referred to "the delightful Miss Le Creevy’s aspiration to be a portrait artist."

I was thinking about this today, as I was at an Art exhibition called "Now You See Us: Women Artists in Britain 1520–1920" at the Tate Gallery. (It is in its last week or so, so may tour round the world soon.)

Four centuries were covered, but the same thing became evident throughout, i.e. that all female artists were restricted in opportunity, both domestically (usually by fathers and husbands) and professionally. As soon as an oil painting was know to be "by a lady" it was not eligible to hang in the Royal Academy. 😲

Although 2 women had been in the original founding group of the Royal Academy, in 1770 the curator Sir Joshua Reynolds outlawed women from exhibiting there. Even though there were quite a few female commercial painters with studios in the 17th and 18th centuries, who were commissioned to paint portraits in oils, (the exhibition today was full of them!) women were no longer to be viewed as professional artists.

It was an extraordinary edict, despite for instance Artemisia Gentileschi was employed as court painter for several years by Charles I! From now on, female painters were viewed by the Art establishment as amateur artists, painting for - and I quote - "amusement" and encouraged to use the so-called "lesser arts" of needlework portraits, (some were huge!) watercolour botanical studies, like those of Beatrix Potter and ... miniatures!

This is something I think most of us have not appreciated about Miss La Creevy. I mentioned that she was based on the real life miniature painter Rosa Emma Drummond, whom Dickens commissioned to paint Catherine on ivory before they were married, but we just think of her as largely a comic cameo, with a quick mind and a good heart.

Now I know the imposed restrictions, low status, and - surely - frustrations of many of these miniature painters of the early 19th century, I view Miss La Creevy quite differently.

Now (for me) on to today's chapter ...

Chapter 14: Having the Misfortune to treat of none but Common People, is necessarily of a Mean and Vulgar Character

There is a street near Golden Square in London where houses, which were once owned by people of better means, are let weekly by floors or by rooms. The chimneys are crumbling, and livestock is turned out to search for their own meagre pickings.

There are many doorbells and the tenants of one house, even dirtier than its neighbours, grow poorer by floor. The garret is let as two attic rooms, and into one walks:

“a hard-featured square-faced man, elderly and shabby … This person wore a wig of short, coarse, red hair, which he took off with his hat, and hung upon a nail.”

This is Mr Crowl. He knocks on the partition to the other room and the answer comes from Noggs. This tiny shared garret is where Newman Noggs lives. Mr. Crowl complains of being wet through, and speaks in a pettish tone. He wants some company, but since Noggs has to go to a party given by one of his more affluent neighbours, the “selfish man [says] I’ll sit by your fire till you come back again” claiming it is all Noggs’s fault that he has to be on his own.

Newman looks despairingly at his small store of coals, but it is not in his nature to refuse, so he gives way.

The Kenwigs are having a party in honour of their 8th wedding anniversary. Mrs Kenwigs looks stately, and is quite refined in her manners. They have 5 children, and Mrs Kenwigs dresses her 4 little girls in fancy clothes and sends the two oldest to dancing school. She has paid a girl to watch the baby boy. Moreover, she has an uncle who collects the water-rates; a person of some prestige and respect, so Mrs Kenwigs is considered by the neighbours to be from quite a genteel family.

Mrs. Kenwigs has only invited a few select friends to their party. Mr. Noggs is one of the chosen few, because he used to be a gentleman. Apart from the uncle who collects the water rates, the most important person at the party is a Miss Petowker:

“the daughter of a theatrical fireman, who ‘went on’ in the pantomime, and had the greatest turn for the stage that was ever known, being able to sing and recite in a manner that brought the tears into Mrs. Kenwigs’s eyes.”

Mrs Kenwigs is a little exasperated by one of her guests not dressing as she considers appropriate, and Mr Kenwigs suggest playing a round game (perhaps to distract her). But this would never do, because Mrs. Kenwigs’ uncle is so particular that if they began without him, Mrs. Kenwigs is sure she would be out of his will for ever. Yet they agree that he is very kind-hearted:

“‘It goes to his heart, I believe, to be forced to cut the water off, when the people don’t pay,’ observed the bachelor friend, intending a joke”

which witticism, being considered inappropriate, falls flat.

“I have the honour to be connected with the collector by marriage; and I cannot allow these remarks in my—”

Mr. Kenwigs begins, and everyone is impressed by his dignity.

The company is excited to hear the bell indicating the arrival of Mrs. Kenwigs’ uncle, Mr Lillyvick, the collector of water rates, who:

“ma[de] so many condescending speeches to the owners, that they were delighted with his amiability, and thought in their hearts that he deserved to be Chancellor of the Exchequer at least.”

The party is most convivial, and the elegant food is much enjoyed.

“Newman Noggs, (as he performed sundry little acts of kindness for the children, at all times and seasons, was humoured in his request to be taken no notice of, and was merely spoken about, in a whisper, as the decayed gentleman).”

The party gets even noisier and Noggs looks interested when the spirits are brought out. Mr. Lillyvick is seated in a large armchair by the fireside, and the four little Kenwigses positioned on a small bench with their faces towards the fire, and their pretty blonde pigtails towards the company.

Mrs. Kenwigs is suddenly overcome with motherly feelings, sobbing that her children are too beautiful to live:



“Mrs. Kenwigs and her children at her eighth anniversary celebration” - Fred Barnard - Household Edition 1875

The children, hearing this prophecy of an early death:

“raised a hideous cry, and burying their heads in their mother’s lap simultaneously, screamed until the eight flaxen tails vibrated again.

The mother is consoled by the party-goers, and the children are soothed by their mother, after which:

“the little Kenwigses, being also composed, were distributed among the company, to prevent the possibility of Mrs. Kenwigs being again overcome by the blaze of their combined beauty.”

The company, full of bonhomie and nostalgia, begin to reminisce.

Mr. Lillyvick, the uncle of Mrs. Kenwigs, remembers the day when Mrs. Kenwigs upset her mother by announcing that she was in love with the man she is now married to. Mr. Kenwigs was considered beneath the family in status. Mr. Kenwigs doesn’t mind this being mentioned, because it shows that he married well. The uncle admits that initially he had the same objections towards Mr. Kenwigs, but after meeting him he had changed his mind. He could tell that Mr. Kenwigs was a decent man, who was going to make something of himself, and this made the other member of the family alter their opinion.

“‘Morleena Kenwigs,’ cried her mother, at this crisis, much affected, ‘kiss your dear uncle!’”

The eldest child does as she is bidden, and the others follow suit in turn. Then Morleena performs a set dance, and the actress Miss Petowker recites “The Blood-Drinker’s Burial” afterwards, to much acclaim:



“Henrietta Petowker” - Sol Eytinge, Jr. - 1867

“she died raving mad, went through the performance with extraordinary spirit, and to the great terror of the little Kenwigses, who were all but frightened into fits.”

At this point Mr. Crowl interrupts the party to fetch Noggs, saying that he is wanted upstairs by two people: “and they are queer-looking people, too, all covered with rain and mud.” Noggs, astonished at this, “darted away like a madman”, hastily grabbing a lighted candle and glass of hot punch to take with him.

And a little more …

Names and Class

This chapter is perhaps the most concerned with class and social position. We were told that the inhabitants of the house near Golden Square are poorer as the floors increase in height. This reflects a country house, where the most important servants’ quarters are in the attics (and the least are below stairs) and the main rooms are reserved for the gentry.

Mr and Mrs Kenwigs are proud of their social position, as we can see by all the little niceties Mrs Kenwigs insists on, and the way she dresses up her children. However they are in awe of her uncle because of his job as a water rates inspector. Although the middle classes were just emerging, this is a lower middle class - possibly rising to middle class - position. If he is so respected, then the Kenwigs must be working class aspiring to lower middle class, and this is certainly how they come across, with all their pretensions and “select” company. From this we are led to consider …

English Names as an Indicator of Class

The name “Morleena” we are told is an invention by Mrs Kenwigs, and is quite telling. It is the working classes (even now!) who tend to invent names, whereas the middle classes will choose traditional or Biblical names. (Part of this explanation is under a spoiler for those interested, to conserve space, so as not to interrupt our discussion.)

(view spoiler)[Sometimes, such as in the case of “Wendy”, a name can have been invented (in this case by J.M. Barrie) comparatively recently, and then it is accepted across the classes. But “Morleena” is made up.

“Morleena” sounds as thought it might be English - Cornish, (Morwenna) - but isn’t. Many of these invented names are amalgams of other names, or different spellings of European names. The equivalent of the Victorian Mary-Ann might be Lily-Ann, or Ellie-May. There are various spellings of invented or amalgam names such as Charmayne, Chantelle, Kayleigh, Michellina, Jayden - or simply those which have a letter missing from the traditional way - Jon, Antony, and so on.

Anything which has a quirky feel and appeals to the parents as being “different” and sounding quite fancy could be chosen. Or working class parents may choose a city/country as a name because it sounds exotic e.g. India, Paris, Madison, Jordan, China, Phoenix, Chad, Manhattan. But then royal names or their derivatives are much favoured across the board, by working, middle and upper classes: Albert and Archie as well as Elizabeth, Anne, George, Philip etc.

Another subtlety is that the names can be pronounced differently in different classes. So in upper middle class families “Ralph” is pronounced “Rafe”. In working class families “Janice” might be pronounced “Janneese”.

I’m not including different ethnicities here by the way, because it becomes complicated and largely outside the scope of this novel. Usually a name like Nelson for instance would be a black name, and names using other alphabets would need to be transliterated. The genderising of names is also not relevant here. (hide spoiler)]

It’s a bit of a minefield, but Charles Dickens was deliberately making a point here. You might remember too, that in Dombey and Son, the working class Toodles colloquially called their son “Biler” after a steam engine (though he did have another formal name) which shocked middle class Mr Dombey - who even insisted on calling Polly, “Richards”, as he considered it more respectable (i.e. more middle class).

Also Mr Dombey's family was a perfect instance of the son, Paul, being named after the father, just as Nicholas was named after Nicholas. The naming of sons after fathers and daughters after mothers transcends the classes, but is becoming less frequent and a matter of choice.

Did you notice a resentful comment by Charles Dickens as narrator? When Mr Lillyvick said he didn’t mind where he sat, the author said:

“Not particular! What a meek collector! If he had been an author, who knew his place, he couldn’t have been more humble.”

I’ll choose that one as my favourite. 🙄😁

I’d love to know what - or more likely who - was in Charles Dickens’s mind at the moment he wrote that irritated aside. His old editor Richard Bentley? Or one of the new ones, Chapman and Hall? One of his new illustrious friends who secretly considered him a bit of a dandy and parvenu, perhaps? Sadly we will never know but it is certainly said from the heart, and deeply personal.

Another extra ...

Miss Petowker was the daughter of a theatrical fireman. We have noticed these "theatrical firemen" in other group reads. This was before many local fire services, and certainly before a national one. So firemen were employed on a private basis, and all London theatres had one.

Did you enjoy this chapter? I admit I was surprised that Charles Dickens did not end his installment yesterday, with the cliffhanger of Nicholas leaving Dotheboy Hall and … poor Smike following? They still have a walk of c.200 miles ahead of them. Where can they be now, and whatever will become of them?

We do in effect have this cliffhanger although Charles Dickens has now introduced several new characters - the entire Kenwigs family - and by extension their uncle, Mr Lillyvig, the over-the-top Drury Lane actress Miss Petowker, and the well-named Mr Crowl, Nogg’s fellow lodger.

And we have a double cliffhanger, wondering just who these two strangers at the door might be!

Apologies for the delayed posting today. This is the end of installment 4. Installment 5 will begin with chapter 15, on Friday. 😊

No story can fully engage us until the true character of its protagonist begins to emerge. And in this chapter, Nicholas does indeed show his true colors! Thus, we have reached the first major turning point in the tale. But knowing Dickens, there will undoubtedly be several more to come.
By literally taking matters into his own hands, Nicholas has raised the stakes dramatically. Now we must wait for Ralph to play his hand ....

No harm done Jean! We know it takes time and much preparation work for your wonderful posts!

I liked the description of the house. It reminded me of Le Père Goriot by Honoré de Balzac who described the Pension Vauquer in the same way. Perhaps Dickens' description was better, as I found Balzac's ones often boring. Still this pattern of a relative wealth (or well-being) has been the same in Paris and in Germany. The house where I was living in Germany had the same features - of course not so poor as it used to be.

I didn't quite enjoy the social gathering there. To me, apart from the beginning and the description of Noggs' abode, the best moment was Who is turning up?

Jim : I agree with you!

Claudia wrote: "No harm done Jean! We know it takes time and much preparation work for your wonderful posts!..."

I was hoping most people would see my message yesterday about the delay, and not come on too soon! Thanks Claudia 😊Interesting that the social structure was the same in France and Germany ... I gather that in Norway (at least now) people live upstairs anyway, and sleep downstairs.

I was wondering if you knew about the position of female artists in different European societies at this time Claudia, or whether the Paris Salon took their lead from the Royal Academy too. (It was just before the plethora of modern Art movements developing as a reaction to the perceived staleness of Academy art.) I know we've discussed Charles Dickens's dislike of the Pre-Raphaelites. Plateresca might come in on this as well, if she has caught up yet.

I found the history and contemporary attitudes toward women painting miniatures so very interesting, at the exhibition today. It looks as if Charles Dickens might have had good reason for painting a sympathetic picture of Miss La Creevy!

I enjoyed this chapter for its further insight into Noggs’s character and how he is perceived by others. I’m struck that he seems to have a stronger physical constitution than others credit him with, or perhaps it’s more that he has such a strong sense of doing right. I imagine that must be visible in him and why he was invited to the dinner.

The dinner itself is interesting to me as a picture of character types, something Dickens writes so well. Of course I wonder who we will see again.

This chapter reminds me of a previous chapter - Chapter 6 - which was more of a filler. Yes, we begin and end with Noggs, but we don’t know if any of the other characters play a role in the future of NN.

Kathleen wrote: "This chapter reminds me of a previous chapter - Chapter 6 - which was more of a filler. Yes, we begin and end with Noggs, but we don’t know if any of the other characters play a role in the future ..."

Yes, Kathleen! I did not quite like this family (and neighbour) gathering and very much preferred the more concise cliffhanger and the atmospheric beginning.

Still, we may take into account Dickens' technique of introducing new characters even late into his novels. A dinner for some purpose or anniversary is the most adequate device for gathering a few new protagonists and link them with someone we already know.

Will they *all* play a significant part or shift into the background as an anyway useful setting for future scenes? Only Dickens knows...

However I am keeping in mind former experiences in Dickens novels with seemingly less significant background characters who eventually proved to be instrumental in future developments!

Who could be at the door? I always love to speculate. It couldn’t be Nicholas and Smike as Jean said they have a 200 mile walk yet. It’s more than one guest so it could be. Kate and her mother? Probably not. We just met new characters but that doesn’t mean Dickens wouldn’t introduce more this way.

I sure hope the next chapter continues from here. I’m usually not great at figuring these things out. I think Dickens probably doesn’t mean for us to though!

Is there any indication in this chapter about when it takes place in relation to when Nicholas and Smike left Dotheboys Hall? If not, the story could have jumped ahead to when they reached London. I believe Noggs did offer to help Nicholas if he ever needed it.

Yes, Katy, that possibility crossed my mind as well. I think that’s a definite possibility.

Bionic Jean wrote: "What a wonderful chapter! 👏😊😆 Were you like me, cheering by the end? Everything we hoped Nicholas would do, he did with great passion and vigour! Yes, he indulged in stagey rhetoric, but we love hi..."

Hi Jean

Yes indeed, the placement of the illustrations, especially those in the original parts of Dickens’s novels, is something that 21C readers are perhaps unable to fully comprehend or appreciate. In each separate part of the original novel (if it had illustrations) the reader would find two illustrations before the chapter in which the content of the illustration would occur. Thus, the reader was always in a position of seeing the illustrations before reading

Your presentation to us of all the different illustrators and their work gives us a detailed appreciation of the seemingly lost art of novel illustrations. For the illustrations of Nicholas’s revolt in the schoolhouse we got to see how many fine illustrators reflected upon and then created their interpretation of the same event. That the later illustrators would no doubt seen the earlier visual interpretations opens up a new world of consideration about an old and beloved method of book presentation.

Katy wrote: "Is there any indication in this chapter about when it takes place in relation to when Nicholas and Smike left Dotheboys Hall? If not, the story could have jumped ahead to when they reached London. ..."

Two people who asked for Newman Noggs by name? My thought when I read the closing couple of paragraphs was that that was the biggest non-cliffhanger cliffhanger that Dickens ever wrote. My very first thought was that Nicholas had taken advantage of the help offered in the mysterious letter from the earlier chapters as a means of avoiding immediate contact with his uncle and gathering his thoughts and resources before deciding what more to do.

I enjoyed meeting Crowl an the Kenwigs, and learning more about Noggs in his personal life--how his eyes glisten at seeing the spirits, and "who had not been thoroughly sober at so late an hour for a long long time."

So interesting about the made-up names, Jean! I had thought this was a more recent phenomenon, and hadn't thought of it having anything to do with class.

I learn so much taking part in these long reads. :-)
Kathleen C.

Bionic Jean wrote: "English Names as an Indicator of Class

The name “Morleena” we are told is an invention by Mrs Kenwigs, and is quite telling. It is the working classes (even now!) who tend to invent names, whereas..."

Any chapter that has Newman Noggs is a worthy chapter to read and enjoy. Certainly this is a chapter that takes an interesting look at a new group of people and, as mentioned by Jean, this chapter takes a good look at the class structure of England. Now, we don’t know if most of the characters in this chapter will be making further appearances in the novel and form a central focus of the future plot, but I confess this chapter feels like a ‘filler chapter.’ It seems to go nowhere interesting. True, it offers humour, but to me, at least, little else. To me, it feels like this chapter would fit better in ‘Sketches by Boz.’

Peter wrote: "the placement of the illustrations, especially those in the original parts of Dickens’s novels, is something that 21C readers are perhaps unable to fully comprehend or appreciate..."

This is a really good point. Often, when working from an original installment I find that in the first of the 2 illustrations by Hablot Knight Browne, with the large initial letter being the first letter of the text, the action depicted will not take place until the second or third chapter (as you say, thereby constituting a spoiler). For our purposes I extract it and place it in the correct position 😁

What I had not appreciated was that when it was printed in novel form, in this case a much later edition, the publisher would choose one of the most exciting parts to stick in the front as a frontispiece. 😠

But then perhaps things have not changed so much. Since Charles Dickens was writing serial fiction, where many people became very involved in the lives of those in the story and everyone gossiped about what might happen, its modern day equivalent is arguably the TV soap. And these are notorious for having the next day's cliffhanger revealed. Even bad blurbs can give away the whole plot of a book.

Did I mention at the beginning that there was one month where Hablot Knight Browne could not supply his 2 engravings? The next month he supplied 4, which is barely imaginable. He must have worked full-stop!

Jean, I really appreciate your great discussion on class and social position in this chapter (Chapter 14). For us here in the States, "working class" is synonymous with "middle class", whether it's lower, middle or upper middle class. The designation is not one of class but of economic means. And it's a very fluid designation, as one can go from lower middle class to wealth (beyond upper middle class), to poverty and back up to another socio-economic status. When Mr. Lillivick was discussing Mr. Kenwigs' marriage to his niece, I was struck with Mr. Kenwigs' good humor when Mr. Lillivick told the assembled gathering that "there was a very great objection to him, on the ground that he was beneath the family, and would disgrace it." Apparently, Mr. Kenwig was of the same opinion about his status but was able to earn respect, even if he was still not considered to be on a par with Mr. Lillivick.

I agree with Kathleen! I learn so much in these long reads!

I am anxious to find out more about Newman Noggs... how did he fall from being a gentleman to sharing a garret in a tumbledown tenement with a lodger who was even poorer than himself?

And yes, Jean, I did catch Dickens' resentment at being treated with less respect than a tax collector (“Not particular! What a meek collector! If he had been an author, who knew his place, he couldn’t have been more humble.”). Dickens must have realized his worth as an author by now, so something must have happened to make him feel so slighted. It is an interesting question.

I can understand why several are slightly irritated at the Kenwigs! We want to get on with the story, and the domestic farce is not as appealing to us as it was to the original readers. But as Claudia observed, and we keep finding Charles Dickens "introduced new characters even late into his novels". Sometimes well after half way a new character will be brought in, and have a huge part to play in one of the outcomes.

That's one reason why it's pretty much impossible to work out for sure what the ending of The Mystery of Edwin Drood might have been. Despite the various claims which have been made, "solving" the ending is not possible; all that can be done is to work out ones which would be consistent with the text we have, and the brief "mems" Dickens made.

In Nicholas Nickleby we still have some wonderful characters to be introduced to, particularly a whole group of ones who are responsible for this being included as our "Dramatic Dickens!" finale 🤩.

Why does he do it?

1. In this case Charles Dickens had specifically signed a contract to write something in similar vein to The Pickwick Papers: that the new work would be “of a similar character and of the same extent and contents in point of quantity as Pickwick itself.” (November 1837). So he is going to keep up these farcical passages, despite any other thrilling and mysterious aspects of the story.

The Kenwigs episodes are very much in keeping with that humour.

2. He loved 18th century fiction - the life and adventures of a hero - having new experiences and and meeting new people.

3. It's an unplanned serial. He had no idea who he was going to write about sometimes. We can tell that from Phiz's monthly cover which does not include some of the main character groups.

Indeed, Jean! Very interesting information!

In Our Mutual Friend the Veneerings are recurring with their gang of friends and/or opportunists. Beyond the social satire, I find this most interesting because of one or several common denominators with the most crucial plot - we can see this very vividly in Our Mutual Friend as a perfect device for telling us what is currently at stake on the London scene and possibly spreading some gossips.

Bionic Jean wrote: "Peter wrote: "the placement of the illustrations, especially those in the original parts of Dickens’s novels, is something that 21C readers are perhaps unable to fully comprehend or appreciate..."
..."

I’m a huge Hablot Browne fan. A wonderful book that explores the relationship between Dickens and Browne is Michael Steig’s Dickens and Phiz.

To me, the best recent book that explains the synergy of various illustrators to authors is Mary Elizabeth Leighton and Lisa Surridge’s The Plot Thickens: Illustrated Victorian Serial Fiction from Dickens to du Maurier. In this book are two excellent chapters on Dickens and his illustrators.

Knowing of your interest, I was going to ask if you had any recommendations Peter, thanks! The first is on my to-read list, but I had not heard of the second 😊

Shirley, Kathleen C ... in fact everyone makes such great observations and poses such intriguing questions, thank you.

I would be at a loss in American society. It's all done by "economics"? Your nouveau riche section must be huge! What I wrote is vastly simplified of course and does not go into the history, factors and causes of class divisions. I feared that my post on class names might offend some, and I apologise if so, as these are broad tendencies. I am lucky having an ethnic name (the name Jean is Scots) as they are virtually classless, though not particularly posh.

Bionic Jean wrote: "And a little more ...

Miss La Creevy

Peter just referred to "the delightful Miss Le Creevy’s aspiration to be a portrait artist."

I was thinking about this today, as I was at an Art exhibition c..."

Thanks for this. I've known about women artists being dissuaded from the art world except in a small, proscribed area before. It is just one more example of how women through the centuries have had to fight to be heard, seen and allowed to participate in the world; whether as full citizens, in the creative arts, science, or economics etc etc

I enjoyed this chapter for a variety of reasons. 1)We learn more about Noggs and continue to wonder how he came to his present circumstances 2) the class structure that is illuminated and of which Jean has led in discussion. The obvious scheming of Mrs. Kenwigs for her children that may boost their status. Waiting for her uncle, Mr. Lilyvick, then the flattery & subservience to him that ensued. and 3) the humor in the behavior as all the characters as they "play their roles."

I had to look up why the children were referred to as olive branches. When I hear that term, I think of trying to make the peace; but I found it referred to Psalm 28 They wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: they children like olive plants round thy table.

Cliffhanger? To me it is pretty obvious of who the mysterious strangers were.

To me too, but the readers back then had to wait a month for the next installment (chapter 15 to 17 to be published in July 1838) and could only speculate.

Chris wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: "And a little more ...

Miss La Creevy

Peter just referred to "the delightful Miss Le Creevy’s aspiration to be a portrait artist."

I was thinking about this today, as I was at..."

Such excellent and important things pointed out on this topic! I read a book recently about female scientists in America; the book took a close look at 7 female scientists at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. The timeline of the book was the 1970s and 80s. Women, at even that recent timeframe, were not given as many opportunities as the men at the university. Even though they had the same education, degrees, and experience as the men, they were still offered tenure less often, made less money, and were even given less physical lab space.

I didn't mind Chapter 14. I thought it gave us an interesting look at another side of Newman Noggs away from Ralph.

A few people have commented on how it's not certain if these characters will become central or if this chapter was just filler. It's worthy to note that on the back of my book edition Miss Petowker is mentioned:

"Around the central story of Nicholas Nickleby and the misfortunes of his family, Dickens created some of his most wonderful characters: the muddle-headed Mrs Nickleby, the gloriously theatrical Crummles, their protégé Miss Petowker, the pretentious Mantalinis and the midlessly cruel Squeers and his wife."

She must factor in in some important way and I'm glad! She will add a fun, dramatic element I'm sure.

A few lines I particularly enjoyed from this chapter were:

-Mrs Kenwigs was a subject of much gossip, "even three or four doors round the corner at both ends."

-Newman Noggs being referred to as a "decayed gentleman". Poor Noggs.

-The biggest difficulty of the dinner party being the "incessant demand for clean knives and forks, which made poor Mrs Kenwigs wish more than once that private society adopted the principle of schools, and required that every guest should bring his own knife, fork, and spoon." I found this humorous but also wondered about that!

-'A very happy life I have led with your neice, sir', said Kenwigs. 'It would have been your own fault if you had not, sir,' remarked Mr Lillyvick." Ha!

-'Want me? By name?' asked Newman. Aw. His humilty. I've become endeared to Newman!

Kelly wrote: "incessant demand for clean knives and forks, which made poor Mrs Kenwigs wish more than once that private society adopted the principle of schools, and required that every guest should bring his own knife, fork, and spoon."..."

I'm so glad you picked this one out. Kelly! Apart from the humour, it reveals that for all their pretensions, the Kenwigs do not have the resources to cater for large numbers. Many of Charles Dickens's witticisms have several layers.

Yes indeed, women throughout history have had a raw deal in employment in most countries.

Oh, you have given a tiny spoiler there from the back of your book 🙄 ... (editors and their blurbs drive me crazy!) but no big deal 😊 - and it works as a teaser for us.

Great observations Kelly and Chris too! I also had to look up why the children were referred to as olive branches ... and then I forgot to include it, so thank you!

Filler? 🤔

Several use the word "filler", but it's a strange way to think of Nicholas Nickleby. How can it be "filler" when the overall story and content has not yet been decided?

Another addition to the 3 points I gave about the meandering construction of Nicholas Nickleby is:

4. Charles Dickens responded to his readers' reactions to each installment. So how the sales went, the letters to him, the general feeling and gossip etc., determined what he would write next.

A famous example of this is the character Sam Weller in The Pickwick Papers, who was brought in to increase sales - and he did the job beautifully, as he became enormously popular. And some will remember from our group read of the later novel David Copperfield, that the real-life original for the dwarf manicurist Miss Mowcher, recognised herself and was so offended by her portrayal that, mortified to have caused her hurt, Charles Dickens changed the storyline he had partly planned and gave her an important and positive part in the outcome.

So "in short" as the Inimitable would say, whether we see the Kenwigses again, or how much they feature, will be determined to a large extent by how the original public reacted to them! Again, it is a bit like a soap. Will they give a thumbs up or a thumbs down?

A tiny teaser to give an example from Nicholas Nickleby is that Charles Dickens
learned that one character was not as popular as he imagined they would be, so he killed them off! (and no, I'm not going to tell you whether we've met them or not, yet 😆)

We constantly have to bear in mind that we are not reading a modern novel, but one which grew organically, responding to several factors. If, as Charles Dickens occasionally wrote to John Forster, he was "several slips short" of what he expected that week/month, what he created might well be something that would be fully developed and would change the entire course of the story! It's an extraordinary way of writing, and hard for us to get our heads round. What we think of as filler, with our modern day perceptions, might be the highlights of the story for some original readers!

The chapter follows straight on.

Installment 5

Chapter 15: Acquaints the Reader with the Cause and Origin of the Interruption described in the last Chapter, and with some other Matters necessary to be known

Noggs goes upstairs to find a drenched Nicholas and Smike, who are “footsore and nearly shoeless, wet, dirty, jaded, and disfigured with every mark of fatiguing travel both”. Although exhausted from their journey, Nicholas tells Noggs he regrets asking to stay the night, because of his slender means. Noggs, though, is glad to see Nicholas, and before anything else, gets the hot punch down them (much to Smike’s astonishment and evident pleasure, never having tasted anything like this before). He tries to make his humble place as comfortable to them as possible, and Nicholas uses the little money he has had left to buy a meal from the cook’s shop for all of them. He has a change of clothes for himself and Noggs insists on giving his one coat to Smike.

Noggs confirms that Nicholas’ family is still in London, and that Kate is now employed, although he does it with a strange manner. Kate, just as her brother had, had made the best of it and written to tell Nicholas that she thought she would enjoy her new job.

Nicholas then asks what his uncle knows about what has happened at Dotheboys Hall, but Noggs is reluctant to tell him until the next day, after he had slept. Noggs:

“fixed his eyes on Nicholas with a grim and ghastly stare”,

so Nicholas now insists. Nicholas doesn’t regret what he has done, no matter what the consequences.

“What is a little poverty or suffering, to the disgrace of the basest and most inhuman cowardice! I tell you, if I had stood by, tamely and passively, I should have hated myself, and merited the contempt of every man in existence. The black-hearted scoundrel!”

He could not be an accomplice to the cruelty that went on at the school. When Noggs hears this he gets out a piece of paper, and begins to tell Nicholas that he won’t do well in the world if he constantly comes to the aid of everyone who is mistreated. But then he is overcome and says what he really thinks: that he is proud of Nicholas and would have done the same.

Noggs then shows Nicholas the copy of a letter that his uncle received from Fanny Squeers. It begins:

“My pa requests me to write to you, the doctors considering it doubtful whether he will ever recuvver the use of his legs which prevents his holding a pen …”

It continues, not only accusing Nicholas of assaulting her father, but saying that her mother’s comb was nearly pushed right into her brain, and that Fanny and her brother also suffer pain from invisible injuries. She continues to say that Nicholas also stole a ring, and then ran off with a boy “of desperate character” who had been incited to rebel. (Noggs glances askance at Smike, at this.) Fanny writes that her father requests that if Nicholas goes to Ralph Nickleby, to have the uncle kindly restore the ring that was stolen. They are not going to press charges because they are certain that his violent nature will get Nicholas hanged eventually.

“I am screaming out loud all the time I write and so is my brother which takes off my attention rather and I hope will excuse mistakes.”

Noggs sits watching Nicholas and Smike, with a: “mute and dispirited, with a most woe-begone and heart-stricken look.” Nicholas wants to go to his uncle to tell him the truth, but Noggs says Ralph Nickleby is out of town for three days, and will not answer the letter until he returns. He had barely read it before he left. Noggs also advises Nicholas to not see his family until he visits his uncle, and encourages Nicholas to tell his uncle what happened:

“Guessing at the real truth, he knows it as well as you or I.”

Nicholas agrees to be guided in this by Noggs.

Meanwhile, the party downstairs tries to work out why Noggs left so abruptly. Mrs Kenwigs’ uncle is furious that Noggs took his glass of punch with him, considering it:

“highly disrespectful to this company; scandalous, perfectly scandalous. It may be the custom to allow such things in this house, but it’s not the kind of behaviour that I’ve been used to”.

Mr Lillivick “had sat swelling and fuming in offended dignity” and decides to go home, distressing the guests and hosts alike. Eventually, though, the Kenwigs manage to calm him down, and Mr Lillyvick feels mollified enough to stay. He even graciously says:

“if I had gone away without another word, it would have made no difference respecting that pound or two which I shall leave among your children when I die.”

which so affects Mrs Kenwigs that she urges her eldest daughter Morleena to go down on her knees and beg her uncle to love her all his life, as she has always considered him an angel. Having shown his virtue, Mr Lillyvick once again becomes the life and soul of the party, admired by everyone.

Mr. Crowl then looks round the door, and tells them that he has overheard some of the conversation Noggs had with his guests. He now believes that they must have run away from somewhere. (Mr Lillyvick worries that they might not have paid their rates and taxes, and Mr Crowl has to be prevented from objecting to rates and taxes on principle, by timely hints of frowns and winks from Mr Kenwigs, that this opinion would not be well received.)

Mr Crowl carries on to says that he hopes they:

“haven’t come from any jail or hospital, and brought away a fever or some unpleasantness of that sort, which might be catching for the children.”

Of course this thought makes Mrs Kenwigs come over quite faint, so that she has to be attended to by the acclaimed actress (Miss Petowker, of the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane) and all her sympathetic friends … when she had another shock:

“the sudden pouring forth of a rapid succession of the shrillest and most piercing screams, from an upper storey; and to all appearance from the very two-pair back, in which the infant Kenwigs was at that moment enshrined.”



“Mrs. Kenwigs’ histrionics continue - Charles Stanley Reinhart - 1875

As they see their mother cry, the four little girls also become increasingly hysterical, and there are attempt to calm Mrs Kenwigs down, Mr. Kenwigs rushes upstairs, almost colliding with Nicholas as he rushes out of the room with the baby, saying that the servant had fallen asleep and accidentally ignited her hair with the candle:

“Here it is; it’s all out, it’s all over; pray compose yourselves; there’s no harm done”

he assures them all, returning the baby “(whom, in his hurry, he had carried upside down)”, to its mother, Mrs. Kenwigs. The baby is unharmed.

The girl looking after the baby is about thirteen years old, and rather frightened. Notwithstanding her singed scalp, she is buffeted about by the various ladies and sent home without the ninepence she had been promised, for being “malicious”.

Nicholas is much praised and invited to join the company, but he excuses himself, saying he has had a long journey and is tired. The company is impressed with him, particularly the ladies, who agree that he is good-looking, with a very nice face and style. Miss Petowker think there is something very aristocratic about him.

Upstairs, Noggs and Smike finish off the bottle of spirits, with Noggs suspecting that Smike might be even more drunk than he is. Nicholas however is asleep, oblivious to all.

And a little more …

On Class, again

“Miss Petowker, hesitating. ‘What do you call it, when Lords break off door-knockers and beat policemen, and play at coaches with other people’s money, and all that sort of thing?’
‘Aristocratic?’ suggested the collector.“

This is a neat and revealing exchange. Just as it is easier to roughly guess people’s ages if they are not too far away from your own, is is the same with English class. Unless you have a background in social studies, it can be difficult to nail the niceties. Miss Petowker has no experience of either the gentry or aristocrats, so she falls into a common negative stereotype of the upper classes. And it is very funny!

As Peter said, episodes like this would fit very well into Sketches by Boz. The established class structure was becoming unstable with the developing middle classes, and Charles Dickens gloried in writing social satire. He seemed to get inexhaustible fun out of the pretensions and affectations of the aspiring lower middle Kenwigs, and their social gaffes.

It puts me in mind again of Miss La Creevy, who so wisely said she painted miniatures of people “not as they are, but as they would like themselves to be”.