On the Southern Literary Trail discussion

Comments on this board should be written with the assumption that not all readers have finished the book. Please take care not to reveal information that might lessen other readers’ enjoyment.

This was my first exposure to Flannery O'Connor years ago in college when I was taking a Southern Literature course. I've enjoyed reading O'Connor ever since. I've read it twice, definitely a unique and unusual book with an interesting film as well. Not sure I'll read this time, but I'll chime in this upcoming month if I can.

I've read this before and won't reread because December is my time for pleasant and happy books and this one doesn't meet those criteria. I will be following the comments though.

Oh yes, count me IN! Not cheery at all. But dang that O'Connor absolutely electrifies my brain. Besides, I need this for a December's book bingo prompt, "rule breaker." I'd say, there is a heap of rule-breaking going on in Wise Blood.

In the first five pages, in the first line even, I can see Motes just ain't right. If it were me on the train, sitting across from him, I'd be sure to be engrossed in reading something.

I suppose, though, at that time there were lots of young men from small country towns coming back from WW II, showing signs of stress.

Debi wrote: "Oh yes, count me IN! Not cheery at all. But dang that O'Connor absolutely electrifies my brain. Besides, I need this for a December's book bingo prompt, "rule breaker." I'd say, there is a heap of ..."

I'm not having you read this one on your own again, Debi, so I'm in!
Flannery O'Connor is probably my favourite author, so this will be a pleasure.

"Hazel Motes just ain't right." To say the least.

Dave! Woohoo!

It'll be fun. And thank you. <3

There is no one quite like O'Connor's genius.

Has anyone watched the 1979 Wise Blood movie directed by John Huston? Did you like it?

Me, I found it weirdly campy. I thought the book (I read it for the first time just in October) was frightening, grotesque, pitiful, sometimes comic, symbolic in the extreme, and thought-provoking, but not campy.

The casting of Brad Dourif as Hazel Motes was perfect, though!

You know, it could have been the music that I didn't like. Without that soundtrack, it might not have had that 1970s camp vibe at all.

I saw the film a few years ago, after I'd read the book, and didn't really like it. I might try and watch it again after re-reading.

Debi wrote: "Has anyone watched the 1979 Wise Blood movie directed by John Huston? Did you like it?

Me, I found it weirdly campy. I thought the book (I read it for the first time just in October) was frighteni..."

I remember vividly that the film really hammed it up quite a bit. I agree about the casting of Brad Dourif as Hazel Moates. I can envision him to a tee in the book. I notice at IMDB they have the film listed as "dark comedy."

The book feels way more serious and is more Southern Gothic and grotesque.

BTW, here's the film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnlj_...

Dave and Franky, thanks for confirming the large difference (in tone, mostly) between the book and the film. I was thinking about watching it muted just to see what I thought. But then I said, Nah. I could be reading instead.

The movie wildcat that came out earlier this year was excellent on the authors life. Check it out, I think it’s on Prime.

Hi Laura! Ooo, thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out after I finish this read.

Thanks for reminding me of that Laura. I didn't realize it was on Prime.

Interesting about that film about O'Connor. Thanks for the heads up on that Laura.

We saw in theater and I thought it was wonderful.

I'd forgotten how mad Wise Blood is. I've just finished chapter 3 and Hazel's confliction of sex and sin are becoming very apparent. It's rather twisted and darkly funny.

So twisted, Dave. Is that why we love it? Love O'Connor's tales?

It is the same psychological curiosity we went to freak shows at shabby carnivals back in day? One I went to when I was 12 made me literally sick. I guess it might have been the Tilt-A-Whorl ride and eating cotton candy. But it was right after paying a quarter to see the freak show tent with the jars, one of a preserved two headed calf and another of cojoined human twins, that I went outside and vomited.

Reading O'Connor is a much better experience! Ha.

…twisted and darkly funny is a great description, Dave. I’m on Chapter 12 and go from being freaked out to wondering why I just laughed.

Chapter One's title could be "Death and sin. Sin and death. And Jesus."

After returning from active military service, Motes' hometown Eastrod has been completely emptied of all living souls, all his connections to the world he knew. (Is that why he was so certain that the porter was from there? Mere wishful thinking?)

The small glimpses into his childhood sure makes you feel sorry for him. He remembers five Motes coffins, including the two small ones of his little brothers. He's convinced himself that his grandfather, father, and mother were all trying to get out of their coffins before the lids were closed. To rise from the dead.

And Jesus is no source of comfort, not in his grandfather's fire and brimstone religion. "There was already a deep black wordless conviction in him that the way to avoid Jesus was to avoid sin." (My italics.)

End of just Chapter 1 and I feel like this in this second read I am more empathetic toward Motes, slightly less repelled. We'll see how long that lasts.

Chapter Two's title could be "The Preacher's Hat"

I'm going to pay attention to that hat. I forget now whether or not he had it through to the end of the story. Along with his $11.98 blue suit that changes hues in the light, he bought it new although it's a hat like old time preachers wore. He'd rather miss his train in order to chase it down than to lose it.

Chapter Three's title could be "Fifteen Cents"

That's so sad. All it took was fifteen cents, the natural curiosity of a ten year old, and his taciturn mother's intuition, then her monition to create a deep conflation in Hazel's mind.

For the next decade, everything is about Jesus and sin for Hazel. Even strangers intuitively see that combination in him. (It's that hat!)

Speaking of hat, Mrs. Watts calls it here his "Jesus-seeing" hat. Could it be that O'Connor was referring to the Hebrew word Hazael, "God sees?" I don't know Hebrew. Google told me that.

It's the first time the phrase "wise blood" is mentioned, by young Enoch. Again, going to Google: The name Enoch is of Hebrew origin and means "dedicated," "trained," or "disciplined".

Interestingly I'm reading Steinbeck's East of Eden also right now. Part of the 601 pages is laborious referencing of names, their stories in the bible, and he plots his story accordingly.

O'Connor doesn't do that. She also uses biblical tradition but seems to me has created an original Christian plot herself.

ha ha "Fifteen Cents" sounds like a Tom Waites song .

Interesting what you say about East of Eden, Debi. Much as I wanted to like it, I found it laboured and a bit preachy . O'Connor is utterly original in her thinking.

Oh no, Dave, you didn't love it? It doesn't surprise me that opinions can and will differ on this one. She certainly took originality to another level. That's O'Connor in a nutshell.

Maybe living in Texas has made me immune to preachy. Lord knows (ha ha), it's common enough here.

Have you listened to O'Connor reading A Good Man is Hard to Find? The link is not a great recording, made in 1959, but hearing her read it in her deep Southern (Georgian) accent and hearing it as she herself must have heard it as she wrote it is a treat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQT7y...

Wow Debi thank you! I'd never heard her voice before. I love A Good Man is Hard to Find.
Flannery O'Connor is the reason I fell in love with Southern Literature. Quite simply, when I was a kid in Manchester, we were the only Catholic family on our street, so we were outsiders. When I read Flannery O'Connor it all made sense. I love her slightly twisted view of the world.

That makes me happy, so glad I thought to send that link. I remember your saying you loved that story. I've listened to it multiple times over the years. It's the exact way I hear it now when I read it.

I have the outsider relationship to O'Connor's and the Marland's religion. The years as a kid I went to church, we Cates went to a small town Pentecostal one, an Assembly of God. My memories are ladies in ironed dresses and no makeup, men with farmer's tanned faces and starkly pale foreheads while holding their hats in their laps, faith healing, speaking in tongues, and during the sermons the old folks, arms raised, hands shaking, tottering up and down the isles loudly praising "Hallelujah!" It all scared me.

If there is a passage where you felt she was especially preachy, I'd like to be on the look out for it. Not being Catholic, I may not notice it.

My memories of Catholic church were women in fur coats at a Sunday mass, with black eyes because their husbands had hit them the night before after drinking too much. The fur coats was supposed to make it alright. Nothing about that was right, not even close. Flannery O'Connor was very good at dealing with hypocrisy. The Church Without Christ is a strong statement.

What a contrast! I enjoyed your sharing, Dave.

I wouldn't want to see that as a kid. No more than I liked what I watched every Sunday.

Just saying aloud "The Church Without Christ" would be tantamount to devil-worshipping in my hometown. Did O'Connor ever write about the hypocrisy of the Catholic Church or faith, do you know?

I think O'Connor had a brilliant sense of humour.

Dave wrote: "Interesting what you say about East of Eden, Debi. Much as I wanted to like it, I found it laboured and a bit preachy . O'Connor is utterly original in her thinking."

I misread your comment!!!!!!! So sorry, Dave. I had EofE and WB both on my mind. I did not like EofE. I thought it was a distinctly lesser work by Steinbeck. And you hit the nail on the head: laboured and preachy.

Signed,
Embarrassed.

nay bother..xx

Debi, I have to break in here and say that my grandmother was a Pentecostal Baptist in Durham, NC. We grandkids used to beg to go to church with her on Saturday night! What a show! I'll add snake-handling to your description, otherwise the same experience. I was never scared, not even when the "spirit" got into people who were writhing on the floor. All her children opted for a regular Baptist church, where it was much like Dave's experience, men who got drunk and beat their wives on Saturday night, but it was okay as long as they sat in a front pew saying "Amen" out loud when the preacher quoted scripture.

Diane wrote: "Debi, I have to break in here and say that my grandmother was a Pentecostal Baptist in Durham, NC. We grandkids used to beg to go to church with her on Saturday night! What a show! I'll add snake-h..."

Snake-handling! Lordy lordy! You are a braver soul than I am, Diane. I'm sure I would have fainted dead away. I can't imagine what an experience that must have been.

You know what doesn't work as an attempt not to go to the Grace Assembly of God on a Sunday? Saying you had a stomach ache. They have a spiritual solution for that too: Calling you by name to the front of the church, laying hands on your forehead and praying for your healing. It worked. I was never sick on a Sunday again.

Hey, today is Sunday. Hoo ba ba kanda, y'all!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k0Je...

Thanks for the laugh, Debi! And for the chapter summaries. I can’t say the first read was a good one for me but you all are making it easier for me to appreciate this time around. I watched the movie & agree about the campy vibe but it’s helping me picture the people in the book.

Chapter Four title could be "Whoremonger"

Now that Hazel has the pleasures of Mrs. Watts' company out of his system, he decides life on the road living in his own car would be a good next step.

After procuring this freedom by way of a used $50 Essex (last built in 1933), he receives a sign. Literally.

It's a miracle! It's as if the message written on the boulder was just for him. Only moments before he had been "feeling that everything he saw was a broken-off piece of some giant blank thing that the had forgotten had happened to him." The sign stops him in his tracks. (In his car. On a highway, no less.)

He realizes, "I don't have to run from anything because I don't believe in anything," and turns his rat-colored hooptie back toward town. I envision his black preacher hat still assuredly on his head.

I wonder if Haze at that moment had that same expression, the one which he started the day. "...his face had a fragile look as if it might have been broken and stuck together, or like a gun no one knows is loaded.." (My italics.)

Oh man! The brilliance of that description. Hard to believe sometimes that writing this powerful and a story so wickedly worldly comes from a petite, sickly woman, a devout God-fearing southern belle!

Anybody know what "666 posts" are? I was thinking they might be fence posts 6X6X6.

Lexy wrote: "Thanks for the laugh, Debi! And for the chapter summaries. I can’t say the first read was a good one for me but you all are making it easier for me to appreciate this time around. I watched the mov..."

I'm glad that video gave you a laugh, Lexy! It makes me laugh too, and, oddly, fills me with joy. I don't think chapter summaries are normally done on this board On the Trail, but I find it's a way to pose questions as I read, hoping others too might have the same questions or impressions. And as a way to share that sense of comradery reading across the ether.

At some point, I'll have to stop them--maybe now--else they will release spoilers.

Debi wrote: "Chapter Four title could be "Whoremonger"

Now that Hazel has the pleasures of Mrs. Watts' company out of his system, he decides life on the road living in his own car would be a good next step.

A..."

Chapter 4 was my favourite chapter so far - very visual. I loved the description of the weather It was a wet glary day. The sky was like a piece of polished silver with a dark sour-looking sun in one corner of it

Dave, I noticed that too. I noticed the barrage of colors. Almost counted them in that chapter. Yeah. That would have been weird to do. ha

Ha ha I don't think that would be weird, given the nature of the book.

Dave wrote: "Ha ha I don't think that would be weird, given the nature of the book."

LOL! True that.

Chapter Five's title might be "Enoch Is Even Weirder Than Hazel"

A lot going on in that young boy's mind and little of it any good.

He is committed to ritual. His "wise blood" dictates his compulsions. And intuitions.

How would y'all describe what that means? It puzzled me the first time I read it, and still does. I want to put a contemporary psychological diagnosis around it in order to come to understand it. I'm not sure that's possible. Sometimes crazy is just crazy?

Blood, or wise blood is central to chapter 5. Enoch sees blood as controlling his thoughts and therefore his fate. A psychological diagnosis is beyond me, but he is young and naive and clearly unhinged .

Dave wrote: "Blood, or wise blood is central to chapter 5. Enoch sees blood as controlling his thoughts and therefore his fate. A psychological diagnosis is beyond me, but he is young and naive and clearly unhi..."

That's as good a diagnosis as anything, Dave.

Unhinged with a secondary diagnosis of Monty Python Holy Grail, perhaps?

Debi wrote: "Chapter Five's title might be "Enoch Is Even Weirder Than Hazel"

A lot going on in that young boy's mind and little of it any good.

He is committed to ritual. His "wise blood" dictates his compu..."

I've just read Flannery O'Connor's essay ''The Grotesque in Southern Fiction". I think she answers your question herself, Debi.

Dave, you are a wonderful godsend! That is a fantastic lead.

I just found a copy of Mystery and Manners: Occasional Prose and am reading right now at openlibrary.org that essay.

Wow. WOW.

That certainly offers a better understanding of how O'Connor approaches her fiction. I want to read it again. Indeed I want to read that entire book of her "occasional" prose.

She sees herself as not restricted by the realistic, not restricted to writing about social, economic, or psychological realism that was considered the literary apex at the time. She eschews the burden of that kind of novel orthodoxy.

She is reaching to convey, with vitality, that which can only come from the mysterious and unexpected, in characters that have to "meet evil and grace and who act on a trust beyond themselves--whether they know very clearly what they act upon or not."

She considered that this kind of writer is traversing great distances, between the concrete and the invisible. This kind of writer looks for a way to connect those two points, requiring an usual approach that will often be comic and wild.

I highly recommend anyone interested to read the essay recommended by Dave. Here's a link to the book via openlibrary.org, I hope it works for you:

https://archive.org/details/mysteryma...

I realize now that I pondered the wrong question about Enoch and now feel definitely "schooled" by O'Connor. Happily so!

Here is another source, an edited version with interjectory comments AND with two audios of O'Connor.

https://www.themarginalian.org/2014/0...

Debi wrote: "Wow. WOW.

That certainly offers a better understanding of how O'Connor approaches her fiction. I want to read it again. Indeed I want to read that entire book of her "occasional" prose.

She sees ..."

It all makes sense, if that is at all possible, after reading the essay.