Terminalcoffee discussion

Ok, I was watching tv this morning and some discussion emerged as to whether or not the balloon boy parents should go to jail. If they both go to jail, of course, they'd lose the kids at least during the duration of their incarceration. But it looks like the mother won't go to jail because she cooperated with authorities.

But...a larger question emerges...for what should one go to prison? What other penalties/rehabilitation strategies might be more effective? What should prisons be like?

I know, a lot for Sunday morning...

I'm probably going to get some heat on this from someone more knowledgeable on the subject than I, but, I think we're too quick to incarcerate in this country. There are hundreds of thousands of people locked up and wasting away their lives in orange jumpsuits, eating crappy food off of plastic trays, canned and frozen food that was "cooked" and served by other people in orange jumpsuits.

Perhaps it has something to do with our entire legal/justice system (from what I know about it on Law&Order, of course) being flawed. I dunno.

I just think that petty larcenies should not merit time in a prison wearing a jumpsuit and eating crap food paid for by my federal income tax. I think that the only people who should be locked up for life are murders and rapists.
Check forgers should just be made to become street sweepers and crossing guards.

I forgot to answer the second part of the question "what should happen in prison."

Hmmm, less weight lifting and cigarette smoking and more unpaid road work and manual labor ala chain gang.

I agree with both of you. Something else that bothers me is how hard it seems for people to get jobs after they get out of prison...how in the hell are people supposed to avoid falling into the same pre-prison traps if they get turned down because of previous convictions? Didn't they do their time? I don't know, I'm oversimplifying, I'm sure, but that bothers me a lot.

No, the balloon boy dad should not go to prison. He should pay a fine in recompense for the money the government spent trying to recover the balloon, and give the country a public apology for the stupid stunt.

Prison should be a for people who are a danger to others. But I think there should be much more reeducation going on for everyone sentenced. So many criminals are there because they can't read, can't get any kind of decent paying job because they don't have the skills. What are they going to do when they get back out that's different than what they did before?

They should be learning basic reading, math, and job skills, while they're in jail, and there should be a job placement program for them to transition them back into society when they're released.

My thinking is in line with all of these posts.

It's another case of unintended consequences of actions taken. In the short run, it may seem logical to lock people up to punish them for crimes. In the long run, however, it does society more harm than good to put criminals into situations that only serve to teach them how to be even more anti-social.

There needs to be a more effective triage process that determines more thoughtfully what to do with people who violate laws. Choices would be 1) serious, dangerous crime -- prison, 2) serious but not dangerous/violent -- a separate system from violent criminals, and 3) work release/probation.

Usually the choices are 1 or 3. The idea of "scaring people straight" doesn't work, obviously. Well, at least not from what I've observed.

There needs to be a more systematic approach to positively reinforcing young people for doing the right things. We need to pay more attention ahead of the curve to those who are likely to fall into the gang violence cycle of influence.

I blame bumper sticker policy-making for many of the problems we have with criminal justice today.

Unfortunately, violent gangs are pretty much out of control these days. And yes, gangs were born and bred in our prison system.

I believe that's a big part of it. Yep.

I think it should be started before they are teenagers, with lots of positive exposure to police who pay attention to kids doing good things for society.

We need specially-trained police for that role, so as not to instill that fear at an early age. I read about a program in Vancouver BC that was pretty successful along these lines.

Maybe it's because I grew up on army bases, but I was never afraid of the police, or in my case, the MPs. They chatted with dad, and waved our car through the gates.
It was a different dynamic than most people have with police, I guess.

My kids have police in their schools but more in a, I guess, friendly manner...they're supposed to be role models and the like. I'm not exactly sure what the police do, and the police aren't there all the time, but I think they hand out baseball cards and try to get to know the kids and the like.

It costs an huge amount of money to imprison someone. Yes, there are some person who are dangerous and violent and must be in prison to safeguard society.

But prisons are overused in this country. In many cases fines, or probation would be just as effective.

In the case of the balloon boy, if we sent both parents to prison, the taxpayers would be paying upkeep for two prisonsers and the cost of keeping the children in foster care.

Definetely some punishment for the father, at least, but--there are other punishments besides prison, as BunWat pointed out in her excellent post.

I would opt for home monitoring(ankle bracelets) for a lot of those that would normally be incarcerated. They would have to check in at certain intervals just to make sure that they are still wearing the monitors. But they function as a regular person, supplying their own room and board, they have a job etc.

Murderers and rapists need to be incarcerated.

"Murderers and rapists need to be incarcerated."

This is about as far as my thoughts tend to go on who should be in prison.

And I really hate to bring up the death penalty, but I know that some of my more conservative friends believe it should be used more often in certain cases. (Usually where there is a confession and lots of evidence.)

I'm not sure, number wise, that would help. I think marijuana should be decriminalized (at least) but I don't know if it being decriminalized would really open up more cells in prisons or not.

I like the idea of Balloon Dad forced to face the people he, uh, scammed, listen to their stories of how that was, and then perform some sort of service work for those folks. However, no one has mentioned that he and anyone related to him should be forbidden from appearing on t.v., or being on the radio, or using the internet, in any fashion other than private emails and the like.

I'd like the punishment to fit the crime a bit better than our current system. My brother's front yard was vandalized by a couple of those teen-aged fools doing "donuts." They were apprehended, had to appear in court, were pronounced guilty. Their punishment? He had free yard work supplied by the perpetrators for one year. I liked that: it seems so precise.

I like that, too, Gail. Very fitting.

Prison should not be only for people who are a danger to others. If that were the case, white collar criminals would not go to prison. I would like to see more white collar criminals in prison. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of white collar crimes that go unprosecuted for all sorts of reasons. I happen to think white collar crimes are just as damaging to society as non white collar crimes.

Is the balloon boy thing when the boy was reported to have been in the balloon and wasn't? I vaguely remember that.

Prisons, on a purely legal viewpoint, are for those who break the law and the sentencing guidelines/judge imposes that punishment. I do think though that too many people are sent to prison and that not enough emphasis is put on rehabilitation. There's a debate in the UK about whether the guy who was swinging around on the cenotaph in protests should have been jailed for 18 months or not....I think it was a bit harsh and a good illustration of judges bending to media pressure in sentencing

Too many people might be going to jail but I think more than murderers and rapists should be there. Armed robbery...home invasions...child abduction...major scam artists..I'm sure there are more....

I read some local news story about a woman who embezzled $250,000 from her employer and got 4 years probation. I think that lady should be IN PRISON !!! What the f*** kind of lesson do you learn from 4 years probation?

Lobstergirl wrote: "I read some local news story about a woman who embezzled $250,000 from her employer and got 4 years probation. I think that lady should be IN PRISON !!! What the f*** kind of lesson do you learn ..."

That happened to one of my neighbors LG. She borrowed in excess of $250,000 from her employer. She was convicted of a Class C felony, but never spent a day in jail. Probably because her now ex husband was in prison for bank robbery, and someone needed to watch the kids.

I think the only people who should be jailed are people who committed or were part of violent crimes. Or crimes that maliciously and seriously harm another person, even if its not physical harm- ie, embezzling, stalking, etc.

And I think that intent should be taken into account- I don't think involuntary manslaughter should not be a cause for jail time. In high school I knew a kid who got in an accident where the other driver was killed, and he got slapped with manslaughter even though it was an accident between two young drivers.

Nor should drug-related offenses be so heavily penalized. So the police catch some 19 year old kid with weed a few times and chuck him in jail- that's not teaching him to follow the law, that's really just going to make him hate 'the man' and be less likely to care what the law says.

I agree with Sally, prison shouldn't be a good time. Some people don't mind going to prison because it means less responsibility and less work. You get fed, you get time to relax, you have a place to sleep, you get to socialize with people who probably are fairly similar to yourself.
I think prisoners should have to do wok for the public good. Not sure what kind of projects that would entail, but have them do something constructive! I think they should be educated, too, but you can't force someone to learn.

Our current prison system does not really rehabilitate offenders. Look at the number of repeat offenders.

Of course, also we chuck men and women out of prison at the end of their sentence with a bus ticket to the nearest city and very little money. And many employers will not even CONSIDER hiring an ex-con. If they cannot get an honest job, what are they supposed to do?

Also, like any resource of any kind, the number of prison cells is limited (though we keep trying to build more and more). So those cells should be reserved for the worse offenders.

Imho, simple drug possesion should not be a jail offense. Make the fines heavy enough that the drug user would really notice it.