English Mysteries Club discussion

Here is the thread to discuss White Nights by Ann Cleeves, which is the runaway winner of our poll for our next modern English mystery group read.

It is the second in her "Shetland" series, following Raven Black. Reading and discussion will begin on 1st August and continue all month.

Who's in for this one?

I'll be reading, likely by the end of next week.

I voted for it, because I had read it and knew it was a good book. My no spoiler review https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

This one begins today! I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts so far!

I won't be able to start until next week, but I'm looking forward to it.

I confess I'm a bit finicky about series. I always try to read them in order. Lucky me that you have chosen vol. 2, though, and the month has only just begun - that gives me ample time to read vol. 1 first. This means I will join you a little later.

I've finished the two books, and I'm glad I began at the beginning of the series. Enjoyed them both more or less despite some weaknesses. I don't think I will continue with the series because I gather, from a thoughtlessly placed teaser in my edition, that it takes a turn I can easily do without, thank you very much.

an aside: I happen to have read recently Ngaio Marsh's Artists in Crime, the book that introduces Agatha Troy - a painter, as Cleeves proclaims her heroine Fran to be. I cannot help noticing that Marsh is worlds apart in creating an artist character: she was a serious painter herself. As Cleeves quite obviously is not. Her artist character is totally unbelievable, because she lacks it all - the eye, the technique, the attitude, the method, everything. Cobbler, stick to your last - author, stick to the characters you can understand.

... I have read on in the series and like it very much. But due to some spoilered teaser chapters, I jumped vol. 4. It seems to go far beyond my personal definition of "comfort reading", and that is what I want my mysteries to be. Call me squeamish, if you wish. (BTW, I think this has something to do with ageing. For example, I can't re-watch certain movies I know I enjoyed a few decades back)

sabagrey wrote: "I've finished the two books, and I'm glad I began at the beginning of the series. Enjoyed them both more or less despite some weaknesses. I don't think I will continue with the series because I gat..."

Thanks for this tip sabagrey - it's always tricky to know whether to start with number one in a series.

You've made an interesting statement here:

"Her artist character is totally unbelievable, because she lacks it all - the eye, the technique, the attitude, the method, everything. Cobbler, stick to your last - author, stick to the characters you can understand."

What do others feel? Ngaio Marsh wasn't English (she was from New Zealand) but she did write in the English style, so I can see why it might be a valid comparison. But let's hear what you think!

sabagrey wrote:

Her artist character is totally unbelievable, because she lacks it all - the eye, the technique, the attitude, the method

comprehensive! Can you talk more about this, especially the attitude part. I didn't notice anything while reading the book, but now that I think about it she doesn't really feel like a painter but I could not say why.

If it's the technique or method that is off, that's one thing but I can't think what one attitude all painters would have.

it's too hard to edit on Goodreads (it opens a big box of rules and I can't see the button I need to push!) so I'll just add I plan to go on and read the next 2 books, at least.

I would agree Fran would be a better character if Cleeves understood painters better!

If you want to get a credible painter character, I recommend Artists in Crime. The first chapter has Inspector Alleyn and Agatha Troy, the artist, discussing her painting. They can relate over a tiny streak of blue. At one point, Alleyn and Troy make fun about the usual "art lovers" whose best comment about a picture is "I like it". (Once upon a time, on a visit to Madrid, I went to see the Museo Reina Sofia, and in it, of course, Picasso's Guernica. While I stood there trying to take it in, two young American women behind me chatted gaily about whether they "liked it" or not. Just imagine ... )

Yet that is exactly the language in which even Fran herself talks about her pictures. It's not only about the pictures. We get narrative from Fran's POV, and at no moment we get to see the world as she would see it as a painter. What drives her, what catches her attention, what is her intention? Landscapes, people, objects, ideas, colours, lines, forms, panorama or detail? - And, in consequence, what does she see and how? (Let alone that you cannot do oil painting in your spare time in the kitchen and put it all away when your kid comes home - which is quite impossible, because oil paints take time to dry.) - The common attitude, I would say, is the highly developed visual sense as the primary access to the world. It is the main tool of the profession, partly innate and partly honed in years of daily sketching and painting. Whether it is expressed in hyper-realism or abstraction or anything in-between is a secondary choice.

PS: in a later book in the series, Cleeves has a character who is a textile and knitwear designer ... which turns out just as bad. She describes the studio without a scrap of fabric or strand of wool in it. Even if the woman designs for industrial production, she cannot do it without a feel for the material. There would be samples, prototypes, experiments, and so on.

very interesting, sabagrey, thank you for the details.

Who else is enjoying this one?

The pacing of the book is a bit slow or maybe I have been reading too many thrillers lately. I do like the tension between Perez and Taylor and their very different perspectives. Taylor is a bit of a mad dog pursuing every lead and exploring the victim’s personal history for clues while Perez builds a case from the Shetland experience and understanding the relationship to the history on the island and the people that are involved in the case. Overall it is a very tidy mystery with a satisfying motive and a clean finish.

Donna wrote: "The pacing of the book is a bit slow or maybe I have been reading too many thrillers lately. I do like the tension between Perez and Taylor and their very different perspectives. Taylor is a bit of..."

I agree with you Donna, it very much depends which thrillers you have been reading before.

Your comments may well apply to Raven Black as well. I have recently read it and noticed Perez and Taylor's different perspectives and personalities. A mad dog is a fitting phrase for the latter!

I intend to read White Nights and possibly others after a while!

Leaving this current for a little while until everyone has had a chance to finish.