Christian Support Group :) discussion

...Are you saying earthquakes and Tsunamis are a test of our faith?

Sandy wrote: "I meant that God allows troubles to come to Christians and we don't know why :)"

Oh, I didn't get that the first time I read it. But yes, I agree.

"And I wouldn't say Satan is "in control" of the world, because God keeps him on a leash. It sounded like you meant the devil had the same absolute power as God."

I realized how that sounded after I posted, it. It was pretty late....lol
I should have said, the world is Satan's domain right now and he pretty much has free reign in alot of areas.
I definitely did not mean he has as much power as God.

*Mrs.Brightside* wrote: "...Are you saying earthquakes and Tsunamis are a test of our faith?"

We can't be 100 % sure that every sad thing or disaster is a test of our faith, but yeah, I'd say earthquakes and Tsunamis could def. be tests of our faith.

I think testing of faith is a more personal thing than that.
God allowed Job to be tested in every way imaginable, but He did not allow Satan to take his life.

James 1:2-4
2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

It's possible things like that could be judgment. But we don't really know anything like that for sure. God may have just chosen not to stop it.
Of course, it may be something else altogether.
During the tribulation a whole bunch of crazy things are going to be taking place. I don't think it's just going to come out of nowhere. There will probably be things leading up to it.
But again, that's just a possibility.
The truth is we can't know because we don't know God's mind.

Isaiah 55:8 - For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

Raven wrote: "*Mrs.Brightside* wrote: "...Are you saying earthquakes and Tsunamis are a test of our faith?"

We can't be 100 % sure that every sad thing or disaster is a test of our faith, but yeah, I'd say eart..."

But how?

Like are you going to look to the Lord and pray for help when you lose your home and husband in a fire, or will it bring you to curse His name and hate the God you never really trusted?

Ohh. Okay, I see.

Sandy wrote: "Chiara *♥☺Eat cheesecake.....NOW☺♥* wrote: "sorry I'm going off subject, but why does God harm innocent people, and make tsunamis, earthquakes and cancer happen?"

God doesn't DO that; he allows it..."


I understand- but why would we trust in him if he did that to us? What could he do??????

Chiara *♥☺Eat cheesecake.....NOW☺♥* wrote: "I understand- but why would we trust in him if he did that to us?"

God doesn't do anything TO us, he allows things to happen sometimes, and we can't know why.
When God tests us, it's just that - a test. It allows us to know what we are trusting in. God already knows of course. If we are trusting in Him, it strengthens our faith.
In the case of Job, Satan told God that Job only served God because God protected him and because of all the things that he had. Job was very rich.
So God allowed Satan to do anything he wanted to test Job's faith. Anything but take his life.
Job lost everything, his property, his kids, and his health.
And Jobs response?
"Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,
And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly."
Job 1:20-22
His friends all turned against him. Even his wife. She told him to curse God and die. But he never doubted.
When it was all over, God gave him twice as much as he had before.

I don't know of alot of extreme cases like this, but I do know of a few times when people were being tested.
My roommate in college was a nursing major and she went to the hospital sometimes for her classes.
She told me about one of the women that was a patient she was working with.
She was pregnant (I don't know how far along), and was told that she had a condition where if she chose to continue her pregnancy, it would kill her.
Something about her lungs deflating.
She didn't believe in abortion because of what God says and went through with the pregnancy.
When the baby had a chance to develop more, it turned out that it actually fixed the problem with her lungs and when it was born both mom and baby were totally healthy.

Kristen wrote: "Chiara *♥☺Eat cheesecake.....NOW☺♥* wrote: "I understand- but why would we trust in him if he did that to us?"

God doesn't do anything TO us, he allows things to happen sometimes, and we can't kno..."

Wow . . . that story about the woman and her baby is amazing . . . praise God!

But, yeah, I agree with Sandy - during those trials God sends in our lives, it's really a time for us to examine ourselves and say, "What am I really trusting in? Am I going to say, 'God, I know You have a purpose for this and by your grace I will trust you' " or will one trial make you curse God and say He's unfair?

This isn't exactly related to the test of faith thing, sort of, but anyway, you know, a lot of the time when our lives are happy and going well we don't give God a second thought. Then, suddenly when He sends a trial we're stamping our foot and calling Him less than holy. As Job said, "Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?” (Job 2:10)

Sandy wrote: "Out of curiosity, why are you only asking mods? =)"

They are my first go-to people. The people who live on this site. They've seen it all and heard it said. And I want them to have the first chance to answer before all the others and get drowned out.

Theresa wrote: "Douglas wrote: "I have a question for you mods: If Jesus preached 'love your neighbor as yourself', then why did most of his disciples all die for preaching this message as well? Don't people want..."
I'm not a mod, but I think why the Christians who speak the truth get killed is because they cause people to examine themselves. No one likes to be corrected. Especially when a person feels like what they are doing isn't anyone's business or hurting anyone. It isn't easy examining oneself and changing especially when one has to give up something really enjoyable.


Teresa, you think a lot like me on this.

Kristen wrote: "Douglas wrote: "I have a question for you mods: If Jesus preached 'love your neighbor as yourself', then why did most of his disciples all die for preaching this message as well? Don't people want..."

Kristen, this is the best explained, so far.
Some are still pondering and that is OK. It is a tough question and reveals a lot about God's apostles.
Some people think that Jesus was caught unaware in a political movement and had to be killed. His disciples, however, are a different story. If it was just about preaching 'love', then why aren't people today killed for such preaching of 'love'?

"Just love people because that is God's message to everyone". :-)

Sandy wrote: "Like are you going to look to the Lord and pray for help when you lose your home and husband in a fire, or will it bring you to curse His name and hate the God you never really trusted?"

Excellent point, Sandy. The disaster tested Job's faith, not the faith of those who died. Job was being tested by God, who allowed Satan to his rightful chance at attacking Job. Satan is the god of this world, the Prince of the Power of the Air. He won it from Adam. God has the right to introduce Grace since Grace existed BEFORE sin was introduced into the Creation.

Douglas wrote: "If it was just about preaching 'love', then why aren't people today killed for such preaching of 'love'?"
They are. But not just for preaching, for believing.
http://www.persecution.com/public/new...
Sadly, persecution has never and will never be gone from this world until Jesus comes back and makes it perfect once again.


"Just love people because that is God's message to everyone". :-) "
Very true.

"Some people think that Jesus was caught unaware in a political movement and had to be killed."
To those people, I would say that God knows everything. Jesus' birth was prophesied hundreds of years before He was actually born. It was also prophesied that He would be rejected.
Isaiah 53:1-3
1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Daniel 9:24-26
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

He knew He would be rejected and crucified, but He came anyway. That's pretty amazing. I don't know if I would have made the same decision.

The Jews rejected Him because He wasn't what they wanted. They were looking for a political ruler to overthrow the Roman government oppressing them.
What they got was a poor carpenter who taught about a heavenly kingdom and to obey the government.
The religious leaders hated Him because He told them they were wrong. That everything they were doing was in vain and they were leading people away from God.

Raven wrote: "Wow . . . that story about the woman and her baby is amazing . . . praise God!"

We do have an amazing God. :)

Kristen wrote: "Douglas wrote: "If it was just about preaching 'love', then why aren't people today killed for such preaching of 'love'?"
They are. But not just for preaching, for believing.
http://www.persecution..."

Kristen,

Thanks for your answer here. I was having a bit of fun with the "Just love people because that is God's message". In light of the persecutions, the people are not being killed for being or not being loving people, otherwise the disciples were killed for not being 'loving enough' and Jesus didn't teach them good enough how to love their neighbor. Our loving the world has nothing to do with our being persecuted. Holiness is hated by the unholy.

So many people on this board have such a good grasp of Scripture. It is encouraging.

Alex-wa wrote: "Okay, so does anyone have any questions about the Bible/Bible stories/bible verses, ect.? If so, feel free to post here. Also, if anyone has any answers for anyone who has posted here, please help ..."

hello, how are you all?? ive been alright...still pressin on. i had a question of this forum.

my friend and i had questions about the "catching away" of the saints and other "rapture" verses. we have had a go at excatly Who is or are going to be there and who Not.

thank you

Douglas wrote: "Kristen,

Thanks for your answer here. I was having a bit of fun with the "Just love people because that is God's message". In light..."

Welcome :)

"Holiness is hated by the unholy."
Exactly.

Marco wrote: "Alex-wa wrote: "Okay, so does anyone have any questions about the Bible/Bible stories/bible verses, ect.? If so, feel free to post here. Also, if anyone has any answers for anyone who has posted he..."

Hi!
Well, Jesus taught that the only way to Heaven at all is through Him.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 14:6

As far as the rapture goes:
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
(13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
(14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
(15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The Bible says, the dead will go first and then the people who are still alive.
But all have to first have met the qualification of trusting in Jesus and what He did on the cross.

I will open my question to anyone else now.
Some say Jesus didn't prepare his disciples how to love their neighbor, so they all got killed.

Why didn't Jesus teach them better?
Why does love matter at all?

Jesus was the perfect teacher and example, but the disciples (being human) weren't perfect learners.

the disciples were ALL human! what do ya expect? its never changed since then...sin was there as well.

Marco wrote: "the disciples were ALL human! what do ya expect? its never changed since then...sin was there as well."

Is this directed to me?

OK, all good points. The disciples were human and imperfect, dirty rotten sinners like us (at least I am).

So, why did they have to die if they were just preaching 'Love' in an imperfect manner?
Remember, Jesus knew they were not perfect, but still he sent them out to do his will 'to all the nations'. (if it makes you feel better, most weren't martyred right away, but lived several decades before being 'rocked to sleep', chopped in half, hung on crosses, etc).

Second question: How has the bar been lowered today so people don't stumble over the message? (I gave a little hint there)

New question: Why are you suddenly quizzing us all? :D

Douglas wrote: "Why does love matter at all? "

The Gospel is ALL about love. "For God so loved the world..."

I'm not sure if I get where you're going with your next question.
They probably didn't HAVE to die, but they obeyed God's command and spread the Gospel.
And as for them being imperfect, they were all hand-picked by Jesus. They were the best candidates for the job.
Yes, Jesus knew they weren't perfect, but they weren't alone either. They had the Holy Ghost to guide them.

"Second question: How has the bar been lowered today so people don't stumble over the message? (I gave a little hint there)"
What do you mean exactly?

Sandy wrote: "New question: Why are you suddenly quizzing us all? :D"

lol

Sandy wrote: "New question: Why are you suddenly quizzing us all? :D"

I was meditating and this truth came to mind. I wondered if I was alone to come up with this thought or if you had also thought of these things.

Do you ever wonder if others think the same as you? Does it scare you when they don't?

There I go again.

<"Second question: How has the bar been lowered today so people don't stumble over the message? (I gave a little hint there)"
What do you mean exactly?

I was wondering if our churches make it too easy to believe. They 'lower the bar'. They don't present Christ as the 'stumbling block', but as the 'Fixer' or the 'accepter'. Do you understand the 'stumbling block' mentioned by Jesus?
I usually keep my thoughts to myself, but why not share them and see what you think.

Douglas wrote: "Do you ever wonder if others think the same as you? Does it scare you when they don't?."

Yes.
It only scares me when they are radically different. I'm very conservative politically and I've been trying to have decent discussions (Pointless discussions as it turns out) in another group with a few very liberal people.
It scares me that there are other people in the world that think like they do, because their logic is so far removed from anything godly it's not even funny.

Douglas wrote: "<"Second question: How has the bar been lowered today so people don't stumble over the message? (I gave a little hint there)"
What do you mean exactly?

I was wondering if our churches make it ..."

Well, as long as the stumbling blocks aren't necessary to following the Bible, it's fine to remove them. But I think what is happening in alot of churches now is that they don't want to offend people so they remove vital things from their sermons. They don't want to make people feel bad for their sins.
You can't lower the bar on God's commands or standards. It's not supposed to be a comfort thing.
Churches are most effective when people are made uncomfortable if they are living in sin.

"They don't present Christ as the 'stumbling block', but as the 'Fixer' or the 'accepter'."
God can not accept sin. He can't be in the presence of it. God loves everyone, but not necessarily how everyone is living.

Remind me of the passage that you're talking about, please?

I'm interested in hearing what other people think. Keep posting your thoughts :)

Kristen wrote: "Douglas wrote: "Do you ever wonder if others think the same as you? Does it scare you when they don't?."

Yes.
It only scares me when they are radically different. I'm very conservative politically..."

I know what you think here, Kristen. It is not just different. It is destructive. It actually aims at your faith and attempts to destroy it, if that were possible. I am posting this exact topic on Armor of God and offer insight.
Unbelievers are not the enemy, but the captive of the evil one. When some unbelievers attempt to destroy the childlike faith of some, then I take exception since they are taking aim at destroying faith. They discourage some from glorifying God.

Kristen wrote: "Douglas wrote: "<"Second question: How has the bar been lowered today so people don't stumble over the message? (I gave a little hint there)"
What do you mean exactly?

I was wondering if our chur..."

Kristen: Remind me of the passage that you're talking about, please?

Matthew 21:42-43 (from Psalm 118) Lots of study can be done here. Great Messianic passage and prophecy.

This talks about a conflict upon anyone who encounters Christ. Crushed or broken are your options. The Churches don't present Christ as the victor over them, just victor over others.
The broken have stumbled on Christ and lost their lives and are saved. The crushed never encountered Christ until too late and are destroyed. You meet the rock one way or the other. Stumbling is here and now, bringing the blessings of the vineyard, according to the parable in matthew. The Jews refused and killed the landowners kid and the army was sent to deal with them (crushed).

So many Churches lower the bar so that Christ is never encountered in a crisis fashion and come to terms with Him. I don't know if this is your church or any one's church here, but it is possible to hear the word of God and go away untransformed. The bar is lowered: God is everyone's friend and buddy. We need only love our neighbor. The world is at peace.
"The hills are alive with the sound of music." Great movie, terrible Gospel.

Douglas wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Douglas wrote: "Do you ever wonder if others think the same as you? Does it scare you when they don't?."

Yes.
It only scares me when they are radically different. I'm very conse..."

Honestly sometimes it hard to remember they're not the enemy. I'm only human.
Yes, it definitely destructive. These people get to vote on things like abortion. That is what truly scares me. If our nation can kill its own children, what hope does it have?

"When some unbelievers attempt to destroy the childlike faith"
Sadly, that is Satan's whole goal.

Douglas wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Douglas wrote: "Do you ever wonder if others think the same as you? Does it scare you when they don't?."

Yes.
It only scares me when they are radically different. I'm very conse..."

Honestly sometimes it hard to remember they're not the enemy. I'm only human.

Doug: Well, In one way, they are the enemy. I feel your disdain.

Kristen: Yes, it definitely destructive. These people get to vote on things like abortion. That is what truly scares me. If our nation can kill its own children, what hope does it have?

Doug: The liberals on this board don't believe the Bible is God's Word and seek to destroy faith.
The liberals in general seek to destroy life as God created it. It is all about destruction of holiness wherever they find it. Christians are about life and knowing God.

"When some unbelievers attempt to destroy the childlike faith"
Kristen: Sadly, that is Satan's whole goal.

Doug: Amen.

Douglas wrote: ""The hills are alive with the sound of music." Great movie, terrible Gospel."

LOL!

Definitely not my church. We do need to love everybody, but as sinners that need a Savior. Not the come as you are mentality.

I think one of the most harmful ideas going around is that "we are all God's children".
We are all God's creation, yes. And God loves us all. But we cannot all be called his children.

Douglas wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Douglas wrote: "<"Second question: How has the bar been lowered today so people don't stumble over the message? (I gave a little hint there)"
What do you mean exactly?

I was wo..."


I think I was confused by your meaning of 'stumbling block'. I thought you were talking about when Paul didn't eat meat(wasn't that it?) so as not to offend other people.

Douglas wrote: "The liberals on this board don't believe the Bible is God's Word and seek to destroy faith.
The liberals in general seek to destroy life as God created it. It is all about destruction of holiness wherever they find it. Christians are about life and knowing God."

Sad, but true. And as I told one person not too long ago, very unfortunate for them that they don't believe.

Kristen wrote: "Douglas wrote: ""The hills are alive with the sound of music." Great movie, terrible Gospel."

LOL!

Definitely not my church. We do need to love everybody, but as sinners that need a Savior. Not t..."

There is a time limit on God's grace, isn't there? He loves all, but judgment does fall.
Even the Pharisees found this out. "You are not children of God, but Children of the devil." Ouch.

Kristen wrote: "Douglas wrote: "Kristen wrote: "Douglas wrote: "<"Second question: How has the bar been lowered today so people don't stumble over the message? (I gave a little hint there)"
What do you mean exactl..."

Yes, that is a stumbling block also. I'm glad we got that cleared up. I should be more careful to express myself more concisely. There are several stumbling reasons in Scripture.

Kristen wrote: "Douglas wrote: "The liberals on this board don't believe the Bible is God's Word and seek to destroy faith.
The liberals in general seek to destroy life as God created it. It is all about destructi..."

Kristen: Sad, but true. And as I told one person not too long ago, very unfortunate for them that they don't believe.

Kristen, our conversation is exactly what this board was created for, I believe. It is strengthening faith in God, not attacking it.

Blessings to you this Holiday season,
Douglas

I totally agree. All these discussions I've been having have really made me stop and remember why I believe what I do. I've never had to really 'defend' my beliefs in the past very much. It makes me realize how much I've taken my faith for granted.

Thank you. You too.

Actually it was about 66 documents if you count entire books as one document. These old documents are word "spot" on to what the Bible you and I have. The Old Testament and the New Testament are in agreement even though they are 400 yrs separated (even more speration if you look at specific dates of OT books). Jesus quotes from the OT in Deuteronomy when comparing the Law to the Grace that He is ushering in. For what the Law is unable to do (Save your soul), grace does through the sacrifice of Christ. This is absolutely true becuase it has been tested and studied, not to mention we have the original documents that atest to its accuracy. This accuarcy is impossible to maintain - but it has been maintained. The argument that the Bible is old therfore it can't be better than the new theology today is absolutely ridiculous.What we are saying when we make that kind of statment is simply, "God, I don't care what you say, I want to do things my own way" - We live in this selfish culture were the only things that matters is me,myslef and I (The unholy trinity of the 21st century) my happiness, my progress, my success and so on.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 / Jude 1

i have a question

did God write the Bible word for word? or did he tell the authors basically what to write?

thanks!!
i wonder how God did that?? told them the words in a way that they wouldn't misinterpret the feelings and yet they still had their style of writing it.

he truly is amazing!!

Barbara or EndlesslySparkly wrote: "Zarah wrote: "i have a question

did God write the Bible word for word? or did he tell the authors basically what to write?"

The fact is, the Bible was written by forty different writers over ..."

that must have taken a really long time- but did they write in different languages?

Zarah wrote: "he truly is amazing!!"

Yes, He is. Especially when you think about certain human authors - Daniel, John, Abraham - they could have had no idea what they were writing about(prophecy, end times, creation) without God guiding every word - yet, as you said, He allowed them to have their own style.