Hard Case Crime discussion

If anyone is interested in a brief best/worst look at the first 50 HCC titles, point your browsers here:

http://noirboiled.blogspot.com/2010/0...

Best,
David

Is that your blog,you votes for best and worst ?

I like the award names ! The Once-Too-Often-to-the-Well Awards ! Heh :)

Yes, my humble opinions.

"The Colorado Kid" has been the worst I've read so far. I wrote Charles & told him I thought it was a terrible choice to even include it.

But _The Colorado Kid_, sad to say, has been their one true bestseller. It's the one that's paid the bills. My fear is that it's so godawful that it may have discouraged lots of potential HCC readers from reading any other titles in the series. Too bad Stephen King couldn't have given Ardai something good.

Top 3 for me is 361,The Wounded and the Slain,The First Quarry. World class level Noir books.

Worst book is for me Slide by Bruen/Starr. Which is extra horrible because it turned me off Ken Bruen who later on his own became one of my alltime fav writers. By far the best Noir writer today.

The SK book cant have done as much damage, crime fans who would HCC books surely know enough to try others books too. Thats why i never plan to read The Colorado Kid.

Hope you're right, Mohammed.

I know alot of crime fans and the kind that like Noir like us does not read SK like they dont know he isnt good with the genre. I trust people knowing enough what to read.

Also HCC is so cheap, i bought them for the first time before i knew of SK book. I saw authors i knew,liked.

Has anyone noticed that the SyFy(hate that name) has turned THE COLORADO KID into a series. I'm not kidding.

Randy wrote: "Has anyone noticed that the SyFy(hate that name) has turned THE COLORADO KID into a series. I'm not kidding."

"

I couldn't agree more, Jim. The series is to be called Haven I believe. I haven't been interested enough to catch the debut date.


I caught the info on the showing of that abominable Princess of Mars Saturday night. I wanted to see how bad they screwed it up(shudder). That was a waste of two hours.

What a shock, they think everything by SK will sell for them.

Speaking about the worst cover in that blog post i must agree with David. Why must she be topless. What a trashy and ugly cover pic specially showing the boney ass....

That guy should not be used again.

"Princess of Mars" was a bust? I couldn't watch it, but DVR'd it. I may watch a few minutes, but I didn't expect it would be much good, so I won't push it. Thanks for the heads up, Randy.

I emailed HCC ages ago when I first joined the club. Something about billing or what books were coming up. Charles Ardai emailed me back. I mentioned to him that the SK book wasn't very hard boiled, but I did like it.

(I'm also an SK fan, and I thought it was awesome him lending his name and rep to HCC. Face it, SK helped HCC get off the ground.)

CA's reply was that yeah it wasn't very hard boiled but it did have some noir elements, and they were willing to stretch the genre for SK.

I enjoy some of SK stories too and i respect the guy for his taste in hardboiled crime. He has spoken love for many great crime writers like Richard Stark.

I can understand he wanted to help get HCC get off the ground.

Yes, King named one character in a book Stark in honor of the Westlake pseudonym. The Dark Half I believe.

Heard some disturbing news this morning. Dorchester is getting out of the mass market paperback business in favor of ebook and print-on-demand services. This will include, of course, Hard Case Crime.

They say, because of reduced book shelves, they're having a harder time getting books into brick and mortar stores.

That means online only if one is not a club member.

Yuck! I love the covers. They wouldn't be the same as PODs.

A commentator on the subject elsewhere says HCC may seek another, traditional, publisher. Good idea And the Gabriel Hunt series as well.

yeah, but. but. but. WHAT?!

what about mail order??

Ardai says he will be looking for a new publisher. Which means a delay in the next two books. But they will be book books and not POD.

He must get another publisher, im a books reader and i can never buy ebooks.

Trouble getting the books in real bookstores ? I have bought many HCC books because they have their own shelf by the door that you cant miss !

Ardai says he will find a new publisher. He has nothing against ebooks, but HCC is about books and since he owns the imprint, he can go where he needs to. That's why one can expect a delay in the new Quarry due out next month and the Faust in the spring.

Delay is no problem for me HCC is too important to die out for fans like us. Not only the cool retro pulp covers but reprinting old books but also its an important market for that new books of that kind of crime.

HCC gave out a dozen ARCs of the new Quarry(I didn't get my name drawn, damn it). Those will become collector's items for sure. Max Collins says he only has one copy and that wasn't how he wanted one of his books to become collectibles.

Ardai says sometime next year and that he already has the next two mapped out after the Collins and Faust. Same author for both, one old and one new, but no announcement yet other than that teaser.

Amazon sent word yesterday they would be unable to fulfill my order for the final Gabriel Hunt novel. I knew it was coming, but had hoped they would have already printed up the copies and distribute the. I should have known better.

I'm adding this here.

Ardai sent me an email saying the sixth Gabriel Hunt novel(he doesn't own the character) will be available only as an ebook for now. it will be sometime next year, if ever, before it sees book publication.

More on the Dorchester situation:
http://www.dorchesterpub.com/Dorch/Sp...

I don't understand this very well. The books will now be in trade paperback size rather than a pocket book size? That sucks. Is that just because they're going to POD? Why can't POD be in the regular size? I know they never are, but I don't understand why. Does anyone know?

Just speculation but trade size is probably more profitable, considering the cover price is usually about twice as much as a mass market paperback.

If Hard Case goes to trade size, I might have to call it quits. Some of the books I've bought were worth 7 bucks but not the 15 they'd likely cost at trade size.

I agree with you Dan....never liked the trade size, mainly because of the additional cost.

I always prefer trade size to mass market because of the condition of the books,the look but HCC books was perfect size,quality for mass market.

They wont lose me as a buyer only because its trade paperbacks.

I don't care for the trade paperback size. They don't fit into my lunchbox or coat pocket well. Also, most of the stories aren't really long enough to be in that size book. Hmmm... that might just be a plus if they make the font size larger. I might not need reading glasses...

The HCC books, when they return, will be mass market paperbacks, though Ardai says there is a hardcover planned(I believe it was in the works before the Dorchester business) for sometime next year. He says he's in discussions with several paperback lines now. That doesn't count for the last Gabriel Hunt novel though.

Thanks, Randy. The publishing world is really a very strange one. There seem to be a lot of pressures that I don't know anything about. I often wonder if the publishers really understand it. I've heard quite a few stories that make me think they don't, at least in some instances. Other times... well, it seems like a mess.

For instance, I've never understood why ebooks were so expensive. Since the editing is already done & there are no paper or shipping costs, I would think they would be a lot less expensive, yet they seem to sell for more than a MMP while the author still gets a tiny percentage. Often a little more than a bound book, but still not huge or, IMO, proper.

Other costs, such as marketing & warehousing, often come up. I've heard that it can cost thousands to have a special rack in Barnes&Noble. I wouldn't think warehousing would be a huge deal. Lots of books can fit in a few cubic feet of space, so I'd think the costs would be negligible, but apparently they're something the publishers must really take into account, because I know of at least one incident where problems with warehousing about ruined an author - certainly set her & her series back by at least a decade.

Numbers are another area where publishers rarely seem to makes sense. Have you ever found trilogies where there are lots of copies of the 2d book, but the 1st & 3d are scarce as hen's teeth? I know of a couple off the top of my head because I spent decades trying to find copies. In one case, the author told me the first book sold better than expected - they ran short of copies - so they printed 10 times as many 2d books, but didn't promote them. The quantity was ridiculous & without promotion, couldn't be expected to sell very well, so the resulting numbers weren't good, so the 3d book had a very limited run. So, for decades, it was impossible to find the complete trilogy. Eventually, both were reissued as one book & sold very well.

Then there are series such as the Matt Helm series. It sold well for 40 years & in lots of languages, but I don't believe they ever reissued the first 10 books. If you want to read one, you have to find a 40 year old paperback! Worse, when Hamilton died, he had a completed book, but no one will publish it since the series had languished for several years.

One thing I am sure of is that publishers don't or can't count on reader loyalty & certainly have none to the reader. They've left me hanging far too many times.

I've often thought about that unpublished Helm. I love the whole series and have them all. Anyone who knows Helm from the crappy Dean Martin movies or the even crappier Tony Franciosa TV series is missing something. I've read that Hamilton's son isn't ready to publish the manuscript yet, whatever that means... I often thought it would be a good fit with HCC. Now I wonder myself if it ever will come to pass.

And supposedly there is a serious Helm film in the works with an eye toward a franchise. That one I hope is true and that they do take it seriously.

I agree about HCC, Randy. They've already done Night Walker by him. I hope the movie comes to pass. That would probably spur a reissue of all the Matt Helm books plus the last - at least that's what I read. I'd really like to see other Hamilton books republished, too. He writes very good westerns, for instance.

You can read a lot of Hamilton's works & more about him at:
http://homepage.mac.com/mmtz/dh/
While the site is very complete, it's not real easy to navigate. There are a lot of dead ends & odd corners.

Jim wrote: "Thanks, Randy. The publishing world is really a very strange one. There seem to be a lot of pressures that I don't know anything about. I often wonder if the publishers really understand it. I'..."

I have read a few articles on the oncoming age of the ebook, but so far no journalist has done a satisfactory job of explaining the ebook production cost breakdown. Jim, you’ve hit on all the things I’ve wondered about: If you take away all the elements of a physical book—materials, printing, shipping, warehousing—doesn’t that increase the profit margin by, what, 25%, at least?
And I really do hope that the HCC’s continue to print the smaller paperbacks…anything else just doesn’t seem quite right.

Here's a link that explains why ebooks cost what they do:

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/08...

Randy

Thanks for the link, Randy. Unfortunately, I don't agree with most of it. Let's take this statement, by Maja Thomas, senior vice president of the Hachette Book Group’s digital division, the meat of Wired's article, apart.

"...Tacking an e onto a book requires antipiracy software, digital warehousing, extra legal support, and programmers to adapt each title for Android, iPhone, Kindle, and all the other formats. That’s on top of the regular costs of turning a manuscript into a finished product."

Antipiracy software is NOT required (some don't use it at all) and, if used, it is usually part of the format/delivery system.

Digital warehousing costs? Please! I'm a sysadmin & my son is head engineer for an ISP. That just won't fly. The cost per book is extremely minimal. Most books are under 1mb in size. You know how much 1 mb costs in storage or delivery now? It's negligible.

Extra legal support? Why? So they can sue their customers like the RIAA? And they want me to foot the bill, too? Talk about having a big pair...

Programmers to format? Again, that doesn't make sense. A programmer or team has created a software program to convert to a format - once. They tweak it occasionally. No one would let a programmer do any more. A layout person might have to tweak the manuscript, but that's it. I use Calibre - it's freeware (I did send the programmer $25 once) - to convert various formats. If I bothered to manually tweak the format, that would take a few hours - one time!

As I understand it, the bulk of the work is in the first edition. That's the one that has to try to make back the money (or show a positive trend) with various editing, illustration & marketing costs. It's often a hardback for $25. Then an MMP comes out for $7.99. Don't tell me they lose money on them. They may make back some of the initial costs or it might just be gravy. I would guess it varies.

Some books don't go the HB to MMP & then to ebook. Sometimes you can get the ebook immediately or even before the HB. I'm not upset about paying a premium for those ebooks. They bear as much of the cost of editing & marketing as any other first edition. I'm talking about books that are already out as an HB or a MMP. I've seen far too many still running at $10 or more while the MMP is $7.99.

Why should an ebook be more than a paperback under those circumstances?

The Wired article says, "Turns out, the physical aspects of book production can account for as little as 15 percent of the cost of the title."

I've heard that figure is a lot higher, at least twice as much. Physical warehousing is very expensive, so is paper & transport costs. And, as I understand it, that's not figuring in the burned copies - those they ship that aren't sold & they wind up rebating via the front covers, something that shouldn't happen with an ebook.

No, I think they're lying through their teeth & trying to milk the cash cow for all they can. I don't have a problem with trying to make a fair buck, but lying about it pisses me off.

At least, I think they're lying. I'm not positive. I'll admit to being ignorant about how the whole publishing industry works, but so far I haven't read any article that has convinced me that ebooks are priced properly.

I'm ignorant of the publishing business myself. But I do know warehousing, working in textiles for thirty-five years. You are right when you talk about the cost of physical warehousing of any product. The publishing industry's ebook edition could and should be cheaper.

I read an ebook novel by J. D. Rhoades, Storm Surge(very good thriller by the way, that was only $1.99. He is one of those mid-list authors that was early in a promising career when the ebook revolution come by. Storm Surge is his fifth book and worth the price if one likes thrillers.

I just finished 2 of Westlake's books; The Cutie & 361. I liked the first one the best & gave it 4 stars. "361" got spoiled a bit by the rifle shot for me, so I only gave it 3 stars. Love where the title came from, though. Kind of a nifty idea. I'm definitely going to read more books by him.

Wow, crazy news. I may look into an e-reader now if only to get this series. It is good to have the books digitally sometimes. Can't get a kindle, amazon can remove your books from your kindle after you buy them. That is insane. If there was a non-proprietary format for these ebooks and an ebook reader out there I'd be much more inclined to get one.

I've read only about 8 of these so far, started in last 9 months.
Say It with Bullets is my favorite out of the first 50, hilarious. Blackmailer, Songs of Innocence(haven't read Little Girl Lost), and Fright are next on my list. The Confession had some good lawyer action in it, but left me cold otherwise.

Most ereaders handle non-proprietary formats, Bob. I looked them over & decided on the Sony PRC-505 (PCR?). Whatever. Between that & Calibre, you can read most anything. My Sony supports RTF, Txt & PDF, besides the .LRF files of Sony, itself. I think Calibre even does Kindle files now. I'll check later.

You have to hook my Sony up to a PC to get books, but I like that. I can use Sony's crappy software to get books from their store directly on to the internal memory plus I have an additional SIM that I can use for everything else. All of that is put on & can be transferred via Calibre from on place or format to another. IOW, I have FULL control. Sony can't do squat, as it should be.

Yeah, I guess it depends where I can buy the book. Amazon is going to make it their format, Sony will make it their format... Calibre sounds good, still I hate needing freeware but I guess if it works it would solve some problems and I won't need a new ereader for several years.

One thing that the ebook format does not account for is library and used book store usage. I mean I guess it keeps tons of people from reading their book for free but it sucks on the consumer end. We have to fork over $10 for a book every time we want to read something. That is the other big reason I am wary of this. I read so much from libraries and used book stores.

I have to admit I read quite a few Dorchester books from the library such as Richard Laymon, etc. They are potato chips in book form. Not saying that's good or bad. If I get an ereader I'll probably break down and buy a few. Dorchester = business wizards.

Good point on the library & used book stores, Bob. Yeah, the ebook market hurts them & those that use them tremendously. My mother doesn't have a computer or any wireless around her, so it cuts her off completely.

Calibre does convert Kindle files, so long as they don't have DRM on them. You have to strip that out first & there is a Python script out there that will do it. It's kind of a pain, from what I've read so far, but once it's setup, it shouldn't be terrible to do.

DRM is one of the things that make ereaders tough to use. It's clunky & proprietary. It limits the consumer in ways that are ridiculous, IMO. I don't think piracy is really the threat that it is blown up to be. Certainly the way the various media companies are handling it now does nothing to help their sales.

Check this out:

http://heatvision.hollywoodreporter.c...

Cool! Congrats Charles!!!

I thought A Touch of Death was fun, but not really one of my favourites. And I liked the cover of Baby Moll, but then I like trashy book covers. Maybe I'm just weird!